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Silver Member - 10 or more posts
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Oh sorry I missed Sb ppm part in your post. Well, Confused. Thank you for sharing this interesting case.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Taiwan | Registered: Wed June 15 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Premium Member - 250 or more posts
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An interesting case and still more to come. I was hoping to report even lower levels this spring, but about 1700 miles into the current OCI I found the other end of the same breather hose (where it enters the valve cover) popped out of the valve cover. Who knows how long that was out. Difference is it was winter and no construction, so no extra sand and thankfully for this situation, there was practically no road salt because we have had virtually no snow this winter, but for a nice storm in December. So hopefully this was not out long and did not ingest a lot of grit and my lead actually will have gone down. We'll see.

I'm getting close to 3000 miles, so maybe I should pull a sample soon. Maybe have something posted in a month or so.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Premium Member - 250 or more posts
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Well lead is down nice and low this time, but iron is a shade high as is silicon, and copper is rather up there.

The oils are:

Aug 05: A mixture of about 30/70 NAPA Synthetic 15w50 and 10w30, about 20 oz Redline, about 14 oz Maxlife Engine Protector, and about 5 oz STP 6000-Mile OIl Extender (discontinued), sampled at 4200 miles.

Dec 05: Durablend 10w40 with Synpower Oil Treatment, sampled at 3000 miles and run to 3500.

(Jan 05 I did a 200 mile OCI of 5w20 for a rinse, no UOA data though.)

April 06: Citgo Ultralife (sampled at 3000 miles) with about 12 oz of Coastal 5w20 that I sloshed through the empty (but still coated around the edges) gallon can of PCMO additive (21000 ppm zinc, and other stuff, complete package), so that helps explain the nice zddp levels, though Ultralife is supposed to be around 1200 ppm z and p from the get go, so accounting for depletion, the PCMO additive seems to have boosted it back up.

I did notice the breather hose unhooked, but this time from the valve cover end of things (Aug05 OCI it was at the air box and for a long time during road construction). This time I don't think it was unhooked for long and there was virtually no snow, so no road salt but for what was laid down in Dec (our only real snow storm of the winter).

This oil is still in the truck and now has 3500 miles on it. Guess I will run it out to 5000 miles.

Key:
All in ppm unless otherwise noted.
* = less than 1 ppm
LT = less than

Parameter = Aug05, Dec05, April06
K = *, *, *
V = *, *, *
Moly = 268, 202, 4
Magnesium = 149, 129, 426
Calcium = 1681, 1665, 3533
Phosphorus = 888, 862, 1185
Zinc = 1002, 1068, 1474
Sb = *, *, *
Titanium = *, *, *
Silver = *, *, *
Copper = 13, 8, 74
Lead = 476, 114, 11
Tin = 12, 1, *
Aluminum = 6, 3, 5
Nickel = 1, *, 2
Iron = 14, 8, 29
Chromium = 1, *, 2
Cd = *, *, *
Sodium = 13, 14, 14
Boron = 32, 32, 1
Silicon = 12, 9, 20
Water = LT 0.05, LT 0.05, LT 0.05
Soot = 0.6, LT 0.2, LT 0.02 percent
Glycol = N, N, N
Fuel = LT 0.5, LT 0.5, LT 0.5
100C vis cSt = 12.76, 12.61, 11.73
_________________________

For the Aug05 OCI the moly was Maxlife Engine Protector. For Dec05 the moly was Synpower Oil Treatment.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Double Platinum Member - 100 or more posts
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The Citgo oil used has a load of boron and moly that the lab did not pick up . I'd toss it in the trash as it's useless IMO . If the moly and boron is not correct , how can one positively say the copper is ?

If truely concerned about the engine condition just run a 10w-30 of the same brand without doping for a couple intervals and recheck . I sincerely hope the relentless Wink doping and mixing of oils does not cause the early demise of this otherwise battle tough Ford 300ci inline six cylinder engine series thats been known to run 300-500k miles .

If your not hearing main bearing knock on cold start I'd not worry too much. Oil analysis is not a tell all thing at all times as proved many times over .
It can lighten the pocket book though w/o obtaining any meaningfull info in return for the funds spent .

Best wishes was mean't by this post



 
Posts: 124 | Registered: Tue July 05 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Premium Member - 250 or more posts
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Thanks for the tip Motorbike. I'll see if the lab can re run the copper moly and boron. I have three more kits with this lab and then need to find a new lab. What ever happened with Butler Catepillar Labs in Bismark ND? They were a site sponsor at the oil guy site until Mark died and then they were dropped, never to be mentioned there again. I believe the lab should still be good though.

Oh yeah, no discernable knocking on startup.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Premium Member - 250 or more posts
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Okay, just talked to Citgo. The tech person said the oil I used should be 60 ppm moly and boron less than 10 ppm, but usually closer to zero. He went over the whole UOA and felt maybe a bushing was wearing some, but did not fell the oil needed to be changed before 5000 miles. I'll run it out to that for now.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Premium Member - 250 or more posts
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Got back with the Lab tech. He said the numbers do not look like what he first saw and he would re run things for me. Now copper is 9 ppm and lead is 64. That is more in line with what I would expect in a trend off the last two UOAs. Also I think the previous UOA was modified some. Here are all three with the latest lab sheet (all three on one sheet):

SIGNIFICANTLY CORRECTED DATA IN BOLD:
Parameter = Aug05, Dec05, April06
K = *, *, *
V = *, *, *
Moly = 268, 202, 91
Magnesium = 149, 129, 46
Calcium = 1681, 1665, 1877
Phosphorus = 888, 862, 889
Zinc = 1002, 1068, 967
Sb = *, *, *
Titanium = *, *, *
Silver = *, *, *
Copper = 13, 8, 9
Lead = 476, 124, 64
Tin = 12, 3, *
Aluminum = 6, 3, 4
Nickel = 1, *, 1
Iron = 14, 8, 12
Chromium = 1, *, 2
Cd = *, *, *
Sodium = 13, 15, 14
Boron = 32, 34, 81
Silicon = 12, 10, 16
Water = LT 0.05, LT 0.05, LT 0.05
Soot = 0.6, LT 0.2, LT 0.02 percent
Glycol = N, N, N
Fuel = LT 0.5, LT 0.5, LT 0.5
100C vis cSt = 12.76, 12.61, 11.73

Thanks Motorbike! Your knowledge is very valuable.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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