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Double Platinum Member - 100 or more posts
Posted
Consensus is less VII's the better. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Are there any reasons where VII's are ideal even in high performance applications? Smile
 
Posts: 100 | Registered: Wed December 22 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Silver Member - 10 or more posts
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Buster, what is it thats bad about VII's?
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Fayetteville, NC | Registered: Wed November 28 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Gold Member - 25 or more posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Buster:
Consensus is less VII's the better. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Are there any reasons where VII's are ideal even in high performance applications? Smile

VII are best where there are big temperature variations. A daily driver might be exposed to -20F on up to 100F. You need a thin oil that will start cold, but still be thick enough to protect from heat. Racing has little temp variation and very start ups. Lots of high temp/pressure situations though. Not a good place for VII, IMHO.

quote:
what is it thats bad about VII's?

They don't lube as well as oil, they break down which thins the oil, maybe a contributing factor to sluge/sticky rings, etc....
 
Posts: 33 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: Mon November 05 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Silver Member - 10 or more posts
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The answer to most peoples questions about which oil or what's better is how the oil is used. VII's are great to meet the viscosity requirements at lower cost than using premium base stocks. If you don't run your vehicle in extreme conditions and not looking for long extended OCI then VII's are a great thing. I think that most people who spend big dollars on certain brand synthetics are not getting the full benefits of that oil, either by to short of OCI or it's just not required to meet their driving styles or operating temperatures.

Just my 2 cents..
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: Thu August 30 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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G'Day - I stumbled across this topic doing some research in another field, and thought that I could shed some light on the situation.

Modern day viscosity improver additives function very differently to how they did at thier genesis, when there was a lot of scepticism surrounding teir use. A Viscosity improver doesn't just make the engine oil thicker, it acts to even out the logarithmic relationship between viscosity and temperature (as the temp increases a little, the fluid thins out a huge amount).

The current use of soluable polymer type viscosity improvers aims to rectify several old problems. Firstly, at cold temperatures, modern Viscosity Improvers are in tightly bunched balls which leave the oil thin and allows good cold-cranking indices. As the oil heats up, these polymers 'untangle' and expand to create a large increase in volume without an increase in weight, and as such imporves the viscosity.

Old VII used to have the problem of being 'torn apart' or decomposing in high pressure shear-stresses found around surface interfaces(leaving waxy, polymerised deposits), however this problem has been overcome by the design of a 3D type 'star' shaped polymer (similar in appearance and action to a tumble weed) which will tumble along the interfaces when exposed to shear stress, rather than decomposing.

As remmious has correctly stated, VII's are designed to decrease engine wear over large temperature variations, and aim to have excellent cold-cranking properties, as well as excellent high-shear-rate viscosities, which leads to more consistant performance. Unfortuneately, by virtue of their make-up premium base oils can never hope to achieve the performance consistency of modern day VII's.

On another note, synthetic oils remove all hetero-atoms found in mineral oils (even premium ones), particulatly sulphur, which is a huge contributor to sheared-asperic corrosion and hence, engine wear.


.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: Sun February 17 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
JCR
Bronze Member - 1 or more posts
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Very good post PetrochemUK. Smile This is the type of technical information that I enjoy on this forum. I didn't realize that VIIs had changed.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: Tue April 10 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Gold Member - 25 or more posts
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It is a very interesting reading.

Do you have some other tips related to chemical bases of lubrication?

quote:
Originally posted by PetrochemUK:
G'Day - I stumbled across this topic doing some research in another field, and thought that I could shed some light on the situation.

Modern day viscosity improver additives function very differently to how they did at thier genesis, when there was a lot of scepticism surrounding teir use. A Viscosity improver doesn't just make the engine oil thicker, it acts to even out the logarithmic relationship between viscosity and temperature (as the temp increases a little, the fluid thins out a huge amount).

The current use of soluable polymer type viscosity improvers aims to rectify several old problems. Firstly, at cold temperatures, modern Viscosity Improvers are in tightly bunched balls which leave the oil thin and allows good cold-cranking indices. As the oil heats up, these polymers 'untangle' and expand to create a large increase in volume without an increase in weight, and as such imporves the viscosity.

Old VII used to have the problem of being 'torn apart' or decomposing in high pressure shear-stresses found around surface interfaces(leaving waxy, polymerised deposits), however this problem has been overcome by the design of a 3D type 'star' shaped polymer (similar in appearance and action to a tumble weed) which will tumble along the interfaces when exposed to shear stress, rather than decomposing.

As remmious has correctly stated, VII's are designed to decrease engine wear over large temperature variations, and aim to have excellent cold-cranking properties, as well as excellent high-shear-rate viscosities, which leads to more consistant performance. Unfortuneately, by virtue of their make-up premium base oils can never hope to achieve the performance consistency of modern day VII's.

On another note, synthetic oils remove all hetero-atoms found in mineral oils (even premium ones), particulatly sulphur, which is a huge contributor to sheared-asperic corrosion and hence, engine wear.


Alea jacta est.
 
Posts: 35 | Registered: Tue April 03 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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