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Tim...Brother...Why are you so aggressive? Please tell me you don't overwhelm your clients with so much information they have trouble processing it. It took me a few readings to work through your post.

First of all anyone who extends drain intervals beyond double without UOA is foolish. How much are your UOA's? Last I heard it was $25.00 per sample but thats been awhile back. Since part of extended drain intervals is trend analysis, it's gonna take at least 3 and probably more to establish trends. Add $75.00 to your Amsoil calculations.

Secondly, doesn't Amsoil require (for extended DI's) Amsoil filters? Is there an Amsoil bypass system to be purchased? My information comes from former Amsoil customers, they may be confused how the system is suppose to work. If filters are required, you'll need to add those costs to your calculations.

Third, Noone, let me reiterate, NOONE I work with pays the price you used for your comparison. Even my clients who buy from the internet get a 10% discount. Reduce your Schaeffer calculations to $81.65(10% discount off the internet price). I only have a few out of state clients who occasionally buy a single case item off the internet. Aside from those occassional purchases, all my clients pay wholesale pricing without having to pay membership or administrative fees.

Fourth, The Supreme 9000 is our full synthetic line. Unless my clients insist on full synthetic, operate in extreme cold temps in the north or have OEM requirements, I rarely recommend the Supreme 9000. With the way our synthetic blend is constructed, it is capable of the extended drains and extreme protection of the Supreme 9000. However, we should keep this comparison apples to apples.

Finally, My target client base is business. Schaeffer gives significant bulk discounts. The cost per gallon in barrels is less than cost per gallon in cases of quarts. Additionally, with a small minimum of $350, Schaeffer pays all shipping and handling. More over, I have multiple clients who take advantage of 3% below wholesale as a qualifying discount. Schaeffer converts report an increase in fuel mileage even over Amsoil. Schaeffer's average fuel mileage increase is over 5%. The customers switching from Amsoil that I've talked to say they achieved between 2% and 3%.

Amsoil has name recognition and a broader product line. The performance characteristics are similar. Take all things into consideration the cost advantage belongs to Schaeffer.

I would prefer to avoid the aggressive point counter-point tactic you resorted to previously. I was hoping to establish some periameters before diving into this comparison but your like a dang pit bull. Your obviously very successfull with Amsoil and I'm happy for you. I think I've established I'm fairly successfull as well. I chose not to participate any further for fear of alienating the readers. As I said before its clear many here believe salespeople are a nuisance. Lets not prove them right.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm surprised you thought I was being aggressive. I was just comparing prices and value using info easily obtained by anyone on the AMSOIL and Schaeffer website you recommended. I thought that is what you wanted to do.

The prices and values I used still stand. AMSOIL does not require UOA's or special filters for their recommended warranted extended oil change intervals. You can use any OEM spec filters and change them at their recommended interval, or use extended interval oil filters such as AMSOIL, Mobil 1 EP or other filter companies.

Since you brought up Schaeffer discounts available on the internet, (you say Schaeffers has 10%) AMSOIL Dealers offer free 20% or more off the prices I quoted for qualified commercial and retail business. And Commercial Accounts earn up to an additional 10% discount with larger purchases. For those without a qualified business, they can pay $10 on the internet for a six month membership for the 20%+ discount and includes a monthly AMSOIL magazine, 30 page wholesale catalog, and other items. At the end of the six months they can renew or get a free 10% off forever. So AMSOIL looks like even a better price and value compared to Schaeffer.

AMSOIL has recommended warranted up to 25,000 mile up to once a year oil changes since 1972. Mobil 1 had the same recommendations in 1975. Mobil 1 EP and Castrol Edge currently recommend up to 15,000 mile up to once a year. As do European vehicles. Ford and Toyota recently doubled their change intervals. None require a UOA. You said it was foolish to do so without a UOA. Hardly foolish with this history and these companies.

So taking all things into consideration, it seems to me the price, available discounts, and extended oil change value per mile advantage is still clearly AMSOIL for these products.

Feel free to choose another product and/or how you want to compare.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond,
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Tim, I appreciate the fact we can be competitors. We will continue to disagree because we both have absolute faith in our programs.

I'm not sure anyone could follow all the twist and turns we have thrown out trying to prove our points. I think the only thing we've been able to accomplish is confusing people. You haven't convinced me and I haven't convinced you. The numbers have become convaluted. Any further "comparisons" would only result in the same.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think for the scenarios above, we have shown that AMSOIL OED offers the better price and AMSOIL DEO best value per mile with extended oil changes compared to Schaeffer 5w40 9000. Schaeffer may want to see if they can improve. If you or anyone else would like to try another product and/or scenario, I am game.

I also think we have shown that knowledgeable dealers for either brand can get consumers better prices, value and a better product for their needs than a retail store or internet purchase.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond,
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I completely agree with your second comment. I think you and I can bring great value to our respective clients. As far as the first comment, I don't believe "we" have shown anything to support your claim. I also believe the info became so distorted it can't support my claim either. Just because you say it more than once doesn't make it true.

"Schaeffer may want to see if they can improve." Back to the same aggressive demeanor I have been referring to. There is no question about Amsoil or Schaeffer quality. Both companies have exceptional products with honorable histories. More tact may serve you.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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JMorgan,

You said "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's." Just because you've said this more than once, doesn't make it true.

I showed that the AMSOIL OED is less expensive and has similar properties and change intervals as Schaeffer 9000. I also showed that AMSOIL DEO might cost a little more, but more than makes up for that with warranted extended oil changes. You have shown nothing to prove your statement.

Perhaps you shouldn't make statements that you can't back. I'm giving you every chance. Pick a scenario and your product and see if you can prove your statement. I've shown the opposite to be true in price, value and performance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond,
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your giving me every chance to be manipulated and bullied into submission. It aint gonna happen. You keep going for the last word. You twist and turn until noone can follow the thread or just gets bored like I am. Kudos on the strategic hijack. I get it. Since your so confident you proved yourself, how about giving me info on your next several contract bids and lets go head to head where it counts. I don't think so.

I've commented a couple of times I'm not going to continue due to these manipulations and you've gone from aggressive to insulting. Your moving from pit bull to imbalanced woman. I'm all for friendly competition. Everyone deserves to earn a living and there is enough room in this field for all of us. You've been aggressive from the beginning. I chalked it up to over enthusiasm, but now it seems to be more of a character flaw. I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm just asking you to prove your statement "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's." Should be an easy thing to do if it is true. Since you have refused several times now, I guess we can conclude it not to be true. Especially since you have resorted to name calling.

I'll gladly compete with you on a bid as you challenged. Would anyone here like to save time and money and upgrade their next lubricant purchase? Let's see what we can do for you! No contracts, minimum purchases or obligations. Wholesale prices 20% or more below AMSOIL.com or schaefferoil.com factory internet retail prices. Free full warranty for all parts and labor should the lubricants fail when used as recommended, even for recommended extended oil change intervals. Still game, Mr. Morgan?

As far as your "I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated." I disagree as this thread has a lot of good pricing and discount information and hopefully clarified what is and is not needed for extended oil changes. It also has around 585 views. Maybe it is you who would be more comfortable if this string were terminated?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond,
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This type of bickering is exactly what I was trying to avoid. This is what gives sales people a bad rep on these forums. This is exactly why I was initially reluctant to do this with you. The thread has 585 views because they're laughing at us. They want to see just how retarded this is going to get. This is unprofessional and irrational.

You take an internet price for the Supreme 9000 and go with it like it's written in stone. I give you information pointing out inaccuracies in your comparisons and you ignore them, all along twisting and distorting information. Then just arbitrarily declare victory. I'M NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE with all the manipulations. How many years has Amsoil pushed UOA at $25.00 a piece. Now, one isn't necessary in spite of the 25,000 mile drain interval claim. Amsoil sells filters. I've had Amsoil guys try and sell me before this job. They always pushed extended di's requiring Amsoil filters. Now any filter will do? Last I checked, about 7 months ago, the Amsoil website said that doesn't apply to "extreme use" vehicles and then gave a conserative definition(favoring Amsoil)of extreme use. In extreme use vehicles Amsoil web site said no more than 10,000 mile di's. That information was omitted in your disclaimers(another example of manipulation). You keep pushing "warrantied" like its unique to Amsoil. I've already addressed Schaeffer's warranty and product liability. I started this in good faith, you omit information you don't like then hammer a perceived advantage. Manipulations associated with a disreputable used car salesman. I'll say it again, I'm not going to participate with all the manipulations. Another comparison would result in the same tactics. I don't believe your capable of anything else. I praise Amsoil performance. It is one of the products capable of playing on the same field as Schaeffer's. Your tactics are not worthy of your clients loyolty. It's obvious your only in this business for the money.

I'll concede one thing. In this fictious scenario, with the manipulations and inaccuracies, Amsoil showed more cost effective. You win...Now go away. You will no doubt have to have the last word.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JMorgan,
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Does this mean you won't provide any proof of your statement "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's."?

And you won't compete on your bid challenge?
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Happy to...in front of a legimate prospective client where it isn't a waste of my energy.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do you consider a member here posting a bid request and responding to it publicly, legitimate? I do.
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Figures... For all I know you have one of your cohorts waiting for instructions. No...Someone I can set down with face to face. Evaluate the business, the requirements, the expectations. None of your friends or family.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Never crossed my mind. But I'll be glad to help your cohorts, businesses, friends, family and anyone else get better products, value and warranty for less money just as I have my current 406 direct clients.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond,
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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(Ephesians 4:29) Good for you Tim. I knew you were successfull. Thanks for sharing that very impressive number, 406 "direct" clients. With your Amsoil knowledge base I would think you would be a trainer in your area. I apologize for being snippy in previous posts, It hasn't been very Christian of me. I saw this scripture this morning and felt bad for my behavior. I should have been praying for you instead. Good luck in all your future endeavors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JMorgan,
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Liberty Hill, Texas | Registered: Sun August 07 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not a problem. I've been praying for you as well.

Very perceptive. I am assisting a dozen others with their own independent AMSOIL dealership businesses. I learn a lot from them. It's been fun watching their businesses grow. If you need anything, just ask.
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by JMorgan:
New thread about Schaeffer Oil products. Anyone out there use it? Heard about it? What do you think?


JMorgan, I have a friend out west who has used Schaeffer Oil and he liked it, sure seems like Schaeffer's has been around for quite sometime.

I just cannot figure out why an Amsoil Salesman is in a Schaeffer's Oil Thread, guess we can call it Trolling.

Tim, I know you were on here before, and you did not answer my question in that other thread, since you have been a nuasance in this thread then why not man up and tell us why you have been Banned twice on BITOG as well as getting Banned from at least 10 other Forums.

This Thread is about Schaeffer's Oil, nobody asked any questions about Amsoil, I wonder how Amsoil Corporate would feel if they were too read your posts on this Forum, you owe us a response and an apology in this thread, if not, then a phone call too Amsoil will happen very soon.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: Fri December 02 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by TarHeel:
quote:
Originally posted by JMorgan:
New thread about Schaeffer Oil products. Anyone out there use it? Heard about it? What do you think?


JMorgan, I have a friend out west who has used Schaeffer Oil and he liked it, sure seems like Schaeffer's has been around for quite sometime.

I just cannot figure out why an Amsoil Salesman is in a Schaeffer's Oil Thread, guess we can call it Trolling.
He asked a question and I answered it. Didn't know I could not participate.

quote:
Originally posted by TarHeel:Tim, I know you were on here before, and you did not answer my question in that other thread, since you have been a nuasance in this thread then why not man up and tell us why you have been Banned twice on BITOG as well as getting Banned from at least 10 other Forums.
I just got back from a 300 mile motorcycle ride with a bunch of friends. I think I was banned because either the moderators or sponsors did not like my positive AMSOIL comments. Feel free to read my posts. I don't think any were deleted.

quote:
Originally posted by TarHeel: This Thread is about Schaeffer's Oil, nobody asked any questions about Amsoil, I wonder how Amsoil Corporate would feel if they were too read your posts on this Forum, you owe us a response and an apology in this thread, if not, then a phone call too Amsoil will happen very soon.
My response was about Schaeffer Oil . JMorgan as the OP brought up AMSOIL and I felt since he did, it deserved a response.
 
Posts: 570 | Location: Sugar Land, TX | Registered: Sat January 16 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tim, since you are an Amsoil Rep I think it is strange that you are in this Thread, if you were not an Amsoil Dealer, then it would be fine, all you have done is cause trouble for the OP.

You know exactly why you were Banned from BITOG, when you get banned from BITOG, Helen tells you exactly why you are banned when you try and Log In.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: Fri December 02 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've used Schaeffer grease and gear oils in my personal vehicles for the past few years. Excellent products. I'm new to the forums.
Thanks,


Stay tuned...
 
Posts: 6 | Location: Clarksville, OH | Registered: Fri February 17 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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