Are you saying Mobil uses too much boron ? What are the potential negatives of the boron ?

Tim i'm so glad you asked that question. SFR corporation is the best additive company on the market right now. They used to use chlorine in their technology and had really good results with the products. As technology changes so does oil and SFR has been right on top of it. The new chemical composition is proprietary information, but i can tell you this its a metalalic substance that is not like any used before its NOT MOLY OR COPPER OR ZINC or any of that kind. The thing of it is its as powerful as lead use to be only more so. In some of the newer Transmission testing done with the boron and this product the boron failed against it.

You can check them out www.sfrcorp.com

Timer: No, Mobil's additive stategy is fine, like I said, Boron when applied carefully is great. The potential problem I was pointing out is that if a Boron additive was in the correct concentration for, say Mobil 1, it might not show any resaluts on a cheap dino with a boron free add package.

Additive guy: So SFR has a PAO (and very small amounts of Ester) additive...who cares, I can buy syn oils such as Mobil 1 that are PAO/ester to start with, for less money. The testing resualts at SFR's site are underwhelming, and a few testimonials.

Pretty hillarious that SFR can sell a PAO oil for $23/qt and convince anyone that it is a new developement. PAO oils have existed since 1937, with probably the first widespread automotive useage in the 1970's...

Abus your only partially right your right SFR does contain a PAO base but thats only the carrier for the actual additive which is bismuth based and wipes boron up and down. Your right anyone can by synthetic base stock and call it the greatest synthetic out there but trust me there is far more in the product then just a PAO. Call them up they explain it too you.

I'm still waiting for a reply from SFR, but their MSDS sheets and website only list PAO + 5% ester in their engine oil additive. Although I hope they do respond to me, I would point out that having an additive company explain an additive to you isn't exactly a neutral explaination...have you ever talked to the PTFE or Chlorinated Pariffin companies?

I'd just stick with LC and FP. 2 great products I leanred about at www.bobistheoilguy.com along with Auto-RX.

I used Lucas before I found FP. Nothing (not even techron) goes in my gas now except for FP.

Fact is, if an additive is used and it changes the chemistry of an API approved oil(and it will), you will void the engine warranty. If you go after the lubricant, you have voided their guarantee. If you feel you need an addative, use a better oil! 98 Ford E-350 w/ 415,000 miles, 20,000 mile oil changes and 10,000 mile oil filter changes.

CAP

CharlieB "Fact is, if an additive is used and it changes the chemistry of an API approved oil(and it will), you will void the engine warranty"

This is protected under the federal Goverment. A manufacture must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any aftermarket part that is installed on a vehicle was the root cause of the failure. It doesn't matter if its api or any other kind of oil as long as it meets the oem's specifications you will not cause any harm. If you read the owners manual they say we do not recommend the use of oil or fuel additives. Keyword is recommend nowhere in any vehicle that i've owned does it say adding any supplements or additives to fuel or oil read using these products WILL VOID YOUR warranty. And you will win in a court of law a suit if this subject was to arise.

If you use anything with the words racing on it now that is a technicallity that they can get off the hook from. Which SFR nor many others have. In fact SFR has their own warranty that extends the original OEM and in the fine print its cleary read racing offroad and abuse is not covered.

Let me ask you this CharlieB What is a better oil. Define what a better oil is after the smoke clears additives are the only thing you'll have to fall back on because the only things that have made any improvements to oil is the advancement of synthetics from Dino oils and ADDITIVES.

If the OEM's had it their way it would say use ford oil or nissan oil. They make cars not oil leave that to others. They depend on others to make their vehicles just like oil people depend on additive people. Their are some giants out there that make their own like Texaco, Cheveron, Exxon. But even they look to the additive people.

STP made zddp the oil guys hated at first now you find it in almost all Aftermarket oils QS,mobil etc.

I think the biggest things with additives is the lack of knowledge and education most people haven't tried them. Those that have and think they have an opinion haven't tried enough of them.

All of these aftermarket additives are different types of the additives that are already in a fully formulated engine oil. Whether they offer wear protection, improved cleanliness or better fuel economy, they are no different to what you can already find in a good quality engine oil. The engine oil has an advantage in that the additives have all been selected and tested to work with each other. If you add something different you have no guarantee if it will enhance or degrade your engine oil performance. Even additives which claim to work with the metal instead of the oil have to get onto the surface of the metals but the engine oil will already have put down its protective coating of antiwear, antirust, friction modifier, etc. so where is your new additive going to go? Why waste your money and face potential problems when you can spend a little more on a high quality engine oil like Mobil 1. You then have the knowledge that it meets or exceeds the most stringent API, ACEA or manufacturers specs.

Sandy,

Your view is commendable. Lubricants are not like Soup, where you can add salt or pepper to taste.

M H Adeni

Sandy Do you honestly believe the oil companies are serving your best intrest all of the time?
I mean yeah great they have the api and all of these quality measures in place. Does that rule out any possibility of other technologies arising. I believe that the oil companies are doing everything they can do to quiet these smaller additive companies down because they're scared it might effect their integrity of their product and about the time everyone has walked away from the additives the oil companies come out with this great discovery in making oil better a "specially formulated oil that uses whatever" It was there all along another company founded it created and they took the credit for it. Fact of the matter is additive companies discovered most of what you say is in quality formulated oil.

Lets put it in a business perspective sequence testing and everything that goes in to becoming a API oil is expensive not everyone has the cash flow to create one. API has been updating their specifications at an alarming rate since the birth of synthetics which means more testing more money. Ok they've met the specifications as long as they've done this what says they need to do more? Nothing. So the engineers are asked whats the cheapest bottle, cap, label, case, whats the least amount of additives we can add to meet the specifications are there any substitutes to cut the cost further.

I mean we're all aware of the Group 3 base oils to be used as synthetics they can put a label on it and call it synthetic. Is it really a synthetic NO but according to the API it meets the minimum specification of a synthetic. Thats one example of base oils and additives are the same way in motor oil.

So I still ask why do people put so much trust into something they don't know that much about I'm not saying that I have all the answers all I'm saying is if so many people trust something thats when it needs change.

Lubricants are like soup, If you do NOT ADD salt or pepper there is no taste.

No but Valvolines Synthetic 15 ounce bottle at a treat rate of 1 ounce per quart lowers Fe and lead time after time through analysis from what I've seen . It's cost efficient with 3 treats per bottle .

There's a couple additives out there promoted to reduce oxidation . Even with the best synthetics . I personally cannot see why someone using a good "real" synthetic with exeptionaly low NOACK would place a additive like these in there oil, with their probable very low NOACK . Whats the NOACK of solvents ? See what I mean ?

If I were having trouble with oxidative thickening I'd switch oils but I don't , so I wont't

Anyway , when was the last time you saw a GFIII mineral based oil thicken out of grade ?

the best additive available for engine oil and non-ep industrial oils is MONOLEC. it is not for sale by itself but is an additive of Lubrication Engineers, Inc. go to their website www.le-inc.com and look up PRODUCTS, look up 8800(15-w-40), look up customer feedbacks,click on the first one then feel free to look around at some more but the first one pretty much sums it all up.if you are buying a quality oil why would you feel the need to add to it?

Hi All,

I have used Xado products on both of my cars and with great results. The engine runs much smoother and also found noticeable fuel efficiency.
The essence of XADO technology is the discovery of the process REVITALIZATION which changed the ordinary approach to repair and gave new opportunities in operation of machines and different mechanisms.
Here are a couple of links which help you:
Xado products
Xado FAQ
The FAQ also has a video describing how Xado works.
Thanks

If your using a high quality lubricant to start with then you shouldn't have to add a "after market" additive to it. Unless your a tribologist and understand oil formulations leave the blending to the experts. Millions are spent in perfecting the perfect lubricant only to have someone come along and dump in a can or bottle of some mystery fairy dust thinking they can do better in their back yard chemistry experiment.

quote:

The FAQ also has a video describing how Xado works.

The video is nothing but pure marketing. Getting any sales from this site are you?

"what is the best addditive"

The ones in any high quality PCMO in the first place.
bruce

"what is the beat additive"

The ones in any high quality SM PCMO no others needed.
bruce

quote:

bismuth based and wipes boron up and down

Bismuth Napthenate/Carboxylate will form lots of sludge , GOOD AE/EP tho but high ash and sludge maybe a problem.
bruce

testing post