I mean, come on....it is obvious that Toyota screwed up somewhere: I myself have a '99 Camry, but yesterday it died on me, and now I have to dig up $6,000.00 for a used engine. About a year ago, (when I took it in for an oil change) the mechanic informed me of this huge problem with certain cars (especially Hondas and Toyotas) of the oil gelling up and causing major engine damage......and my car was one of these victims. Okay, so I didn't change the oil every 3K miles, but should it be my fault that Toyota can't make a car that runs right? Oh, sure they will fix it for no charge if I show them ALL of my oil change receipts---I'm sorry, but I don't keep receipts of this and for about a year or so, my neighbor did my oil changes. So now I have to dig up money to replace my enginge, all because a default in the manufacturing process. Is there anything I can do to get at least some of the new engine covered? Is it worth anything to sell on the street as is?

I was thinking about getting a used engine for about $1800, and having it installed for $1200.....is that worth it? The dealership said they might be able to buy it from me...would I be able to sell it for $3000? Hey, I can even throw in a high-performance stereo system....

I am so confused and frustrated. Can anyone help?

Well here are a couple of thoughts:

A. Worst case, you have to swap engines, I don't think that you have to spend anywhere close to $1800 to buy the engine. Call/drive to the most redneck junkyards you can. Use ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2475073260&category=33615


B. Personally, I don't think that you HAVE to buy an engine out to your own pocket at this point. How often did you change the oil? Where? If you changed it, at least part of the time at a lube place, they'll have records.

*You may well need to get a lawyer for this part.*

Depending on the state you live in, etc. Toyota will have to proove that the lack of maintenance killed the engine. If you can show that you changed the oil fairly often...and you have a motivated lawyer, you can defintely sue...and the dealer should already know this.

So, you can hire a lawyer, and get them to send nasty letters. Or:

You can go into the dealer, on your own. Get past the minions, insist on talking to someone with bargaining power. Then, inform them that you know that your engine has a specific design defect, and there is a secret warantee:

http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/ownersstories.msnw

http://www.lemonaidcars.com/secret_warranties.htm

(scroll down to the bottom of the lemonaidcars.com link)

Above all, be confident, be willing to compromise a little. If they want you to pay a couple hundred bucks, etc, cut a deal with them.

If you happen to have a lawyer friend or relative, you'll be in better shape. If anything, having a journalist friend might be even better. I would think that the threat of an expose article would be worth a great deal.

This is so sad and pathetic, didnt expect it from either of these two manufacturers, now they are sure to loose their loyal following as well as jeopardize their name and market.

Pity, took them so long to build a rep in the US and they just flush it down the toilet because of some stupid exec. who thinks of nothing else but money.

I have heard a little about this situation. I would like to learn more. Is it a specific engine model that has this problem or is it an occasional problem with any of their engines? We have two Toyota Products from the Lexus Division and have heard they have had problems also, but I have not heard any specifics. Any info on this? We run AMSOIL products and only change the oil every 20,000 miles and 10,000 miles on the AMSOIL oil filter. We have not had any problems yet. 150,000 on one and 105,000 on the other. When I heard of this problem, I was told as long as the oil still passes the oil analysis test, blame would be placed on Manufacturer (Toyota). We did receive a memo from Lexus that the warrantee was extended to 100,000 on our 99 RX300, and we are beyond that at this point.

If interested in more info on the AMSOIL products and a free catalao are available @ CAP

I have a 1991 Toyota Camry 4-cyL with 292313 miles on it, and to date I have only had to replace the alternator [October 2003] because the diodes began to fail. I have read that 1996 6-cyl Camrys have needed front suspension strut plates replaced for $1600. I set out in December of the last 3 years to buy a replacement Camry, but the dealers were too obsessed with their money-extraction game-playing to simply take my money, so I will have to watch & read here to find out if maybe I should simply buy another 4-cyl.

I had a case of Oil Gelling in my 2003 Lexus RS300 - thought it very odd - they had the car for three weeks and did a major engine overhaul - fortunately Lexus provides a loaner car - they simply said Here's your car - problem was covered under warranty, never explained how the problem could have occured. Certainly it was not the first time they had seen this anomoly... Problem became know at oil change at 20,000 miles.

I bought a used 1999 Lexus RX300 3 years ago. Two years ago in the winter I experienced problems where the car would start but the engine would kill before I could shift gears. The dealer told me this is because I was using gas with ethanol in it. After the winter passed, the problem went away. Last winter the problem came back and Lexus replaced the engine for free. A year later with a new engine, I am now having the same problem. Lexus obviously has a problem with their engines on RX300s. I'm now reading on-line about the oil-gelling problems which the dealer never mentioned.

Here is the list of problems I've had with my Lexus RX300 after 107,000 miles and oil changes every 3,000-5,000 miles:
2 engines failed
Air Intake valves replaced
The electrical circuits do not work properly on the dome light
There is exhaust smell when the car is idling.

All of these problems have been mentioned by others on-line as problems with this vehicle. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I'm going back to purchasing tried and true Acuras.

Is Sludge a problem with just Mineral Oil use despite 3-5k changes, as the Synthetic Amsoil even on long changes, did not give rise to any problems. What spec mineral oil is being used?

Hi All, my petrol LandCruiser (80 Series 1997 with 135,000 Kms) 1FZ engine failed during first attempt to start of the day.

Bitumen (not 'sludge' or 'Gel') had been forming and accumulated over time. It had set locking the cam followers. The attempted start broke the cam shafts and all of the cam drive system.

The bitumen forms from oil mist in the crankcase smoking off on excessively hot internal surfaces of the crankcase and rising to condense on the cooler surfaces of the cam cover. Unfortunately, because the sump cannot be fully drained during servicing, bitumen collects at the lowest point and cannot be removed by normalroutine servicing.

The crankcase can heat soak to extraordinary levels because coolant flow from the block to the head is heavily restricted by the head gasket. The total area of all ports through the head gasket is less than the area of the coolant pump outlet. And the surface friction effect of all of the tiny holes in the head compared to the one big pump outlet port is around 4 to 1. Add to these restrictions; a sharp protrusion across the outlet port of the pump of two significant ridges (one is three milimeters wide across the entire fast flow side of the throat of the pump, severe cavitation is inevitable under some conditions of operation. The block can't help but get really hot because the heat it builds up isn't adequately transferred via the head/thermostat/heat sensing bulb to the radiator. The huge aluminium head and manifolds disipate heat from the head and the temperature reading to the driver remains constant thereby denying the driver knowledge of what is really going on down in the crankcase.

I have smoothed the flow in the pump output throat and I have matched (was misaligned) the pump/block ports interface. I have calculated that nine full sized ports through the head gasket are needed to ensure that the coolant movement between the block and the head as delivered form the pump is not restricted. And I have modified the sump drain to ensure that the sump can be fully drained during normal routine servicing. Plus of course, I have spent plenty on parts and work to overhaul the engine. It will be better than a new one when I get it back into my 'truck'. :-)

IMO, Toyota makes cars that run right.

But, I think they screwed up with the owners manual, since there are those that quote it religiously and not as a simple 'guide' that it is. Most owners ignore 'common sense' now for future 'lawsuits' later.

The few(when considering the millions out there) sludged Toyotas that I've seen were neglected.
That same mistreatment would've sludged any other motor, as we now see with other so-called sludge monsters from other automakers.

I haven't heard of any problems with their 4 cyl. engines, but have heard that there is a relatively high failure-due-to-sludge rate in their 6 cyl. Camrys, Siennas, and whatever Lexus models use that same engine. For a while, they tried to press the warranty to the letter, obviously to their advantage, but after a while when it became clear that it was really an engine design problem, they relaxed and started settling for evidence of oil change at least once a year. At least, that is what I read some where a few months ago. I read nothing regarding this problem that mentioned types of oil, brands, or synthetics.

I have not heard of any such problem with normally maintained Hondas. Has anyone else?

I have both a 94 Camry with over 125,000 miles on it along with a 00 Tundra with 106,000 miles on it. Both use synthetic oil since new and never had an issue. I change my oil every 9,000 to 12,000 miles and change my oil filter every 3,000 miles. A good synthetic pays for itself on the long haul. Mechanic replaced both timing belts and couldn't believe how clean it was inside. Proper care makes for long life in most cases.

Anybody have any info on the CHEMISTRY/PHYSICS of what's going on??? The term "gel" is used, but what does this actually mean? Is this just a "sludge" problem (sludge formation is well understood), or something else? What about what Cruiser1 described?

Thanks!

Cruser1 is dead on. Take Hiroshi's experience with synthetic as good advice to prevent "sludge".