Well, I read a little in those forums the other day, and I must say there are some things I do not quite understand yet.

For instance it seems to be a more or less religious question to use "Amsoil" or "Mobil 1" or "Penzoil". I know Mobil 1, but not the other brands. Some seem to be cheap and work, others expensive and working, too. Is that the trick? More or less two parties claiming they do OCI's with cheap or expensive oil? Maybe you can explain this to me.

Besides, there seem to be discussions about Mg, Ca, Boron content etc. and which is better for having oil performance.

This is ridicoulous. It's like saying what amount of what color the artist used for his picture, this picture must be more beautiful then the other one. Or like saying, this is the best steel, this is the reason why this must be the very best car. Do you understand what I mean?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callisa:
Well, I read a little in those forums the other day, and I must say there are some things I do not quite understand yet.

For instance it seems to be a more or less religious question to use "Amsoil" or "Mobil 1" or "Penzoil". I know Mobil 1, but not the other brands. Some seem to be cheap and work, others expensive and working, too. Is that the trick? More or less two parties claiming they do OCI's with cheap or expensive oil? Maybe you can explain this to me.

---

For many people oil selection seems to be like a religious experience. There is endless debate whether to use dino on short OCIs vs synthetic on long OCIs, debate over Group III"synthetic" vs Group IV and Group V. These folks are never contented. As I said, their hobby is motor oil. I am having fun with it too. But rather than all the switching off I am pretty much committed to using Valvoline. Why, I couldn't tell you. I understand there are cheaper oils that would work as well.

quote:

---

Besides, there seem to be discussions about Mg, Ca, Boron content etc. and which is better for having oil performance.

---

Folks there are very intersted in antiwear properties and friction modifiers, etc.

quote:

---

This is ridicoulous. It's like saying what amount of what color the artist used for his picture, this picture must be more beautiful then the other one. Or like saying, this is the best steel, this is the reason why this must be the very best car. Do you understand what I mean?

---

Well sort of. The amount of various additives can vary considerably and different ones can make up for lower amounts of others. Additionally, better quality base oil can make up for excess additive levels. Valvoline generally gets run down on that site as "having a weak add pack," but I have seen very good performance from Valvoline. So, what am I to conclude? Perhaps the base oil Valvoline uses is much better that it does not need such high levels of ZDDP, Moly etc. Perhaps Valvoline is more careful to avoid dumbell distribution of base oil molecules--or perhaps not. I really don't know. I am there hoping to learn something, but will be unmoved from Valvoline until someone can show me it is no good.

One thing the site did for me was to wean me of a 27 year habit of Rislone Engine Treatment (now watch you tell me that is the one and only addive that is any good--no, just kidding). But now I play with a few additives, just for fun. It won't hurt my engine to try the Synpower Oil Treatment, but you are right that is is unnecessary. However, I have an even more devious desire--I plan to throw about 8 to 16 ounces of Redline oil into my Valvoline. Why? Just can't help myself. The chemist at Redline already blessed this, so I feel there is nothing to lose, but time and a little cash.

And Economically I am not at all interested in finding the cheapest oil out there, however, I like to get my oil cheap and paid about $1.75 a quart for the last 24 quarts of Valvoline Durablend I have purchased (normally $2.50 aprox.).

Anyway, appreciate the conversation with you. I am getting to think this site (Noria) is better because of their vendor neutrality. ONly wish it would become more active.

Finally, just curious about your web name, Callisa: are you she?

no, me is he.

1,75 $ for 0,97 L of oil... rather cheap.

Cars are a serioius matter in Germany.

A "normal long drain oil" cost between 15 and 25 Euro....

per Liter, not per complete Service fill...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callisa:
1,75 $ for 0,97 L of oil... rather cheap.

Cars are a serioius matter in Germany.

A "normal long drain oil" cost between 15 and 25 Euro....

per Liter, not per complete Service fill...

---

That alone explains 95% about the long drain intervals in Europe. The remaining 5% is, how do they keep the oil from turning to gunk?

So Valvoline Durablend is a good oil?

What about Valvoline Maxlifefor older cars? What is behind that?

quote:

---

The remaining 5% is, how do they keep the oil from turning to gunk?

---

Well, to understand that, you must understand that you need three things for a long oil drain interval. If one of these three things is missing, you get gunk.

1.) A good fuel
2.) A proper designed engine
3.) ...Yeah, a good oil

Would you try to d long oil drain interval with a Chevy BelAir '56? No? Yep, you are right, you shouldn't do that.

Going with a good oil and a good engine in a bad fuel country,....
-> Gunk.

Understood?

I really never thought about the fuel factor in oil condition. But there is one fuel system cleaner that is highly rated and of the half dozen or so, this one only made a (perceived) difference to me in the F150 300 straight six: Redline SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner. ON the US Redline site they have a brochure about it and it is amazing what they say fuel can do to your engine. Some folks doing UOAs at the oil guy site found (this I believe from Terry Dyson of Dyson Analysis nonetheless) that running the Redline fuel system cleaner affected the UOA. Remarkable. I am sold on the Redline SI-1

A proper engine design has many factors. The person I spoke to at www.auto-rx.com said many engines have areas where oil does not drain down but sits in the top end in pools. This apparently was for start up lube, but the net effect is you shut down and these pools cook to gunk a little at a time. Auto-Rx is an engine cleaner made of esters including lanolin. Looks snake oilish at first, but I believe it is for real and am trying it in one vehicle that is somewhat sludged.

I believe Valvoline Durablend and Maxlife are good oils, but I could not prove it. I can direct you to good UOAs on my vehicles with Maxlife. But looking at the MSDS sheets for US vs Euro Maxlife, it appeared to me that they are much different in formulation and I noticed a much higher flash point to the US 10w40 than the Euro 10w40 Maxlife, but that could be an anomoly.

The Maxlife has seal conditioners added, both US and European, which is supposed to be good for older cars, but really any car. I think it is a good way to get an oil that doesn't have the IMO "politically corrrect" Energy Conserving and Starburst emblem. I really don't care if the API likes my oil so long as I can trust the company.

What do you think of Redline Oil? Certainly not for the average user at $8 a quart over here. It is suppposed to be made largely from Group V esters. But in my "playing with oil" I can't help my desire to try mixing a bit of Redline into my oil (can't leave well enough alone).

As for the OIl guy site, try the Question of the Day forum and look at anyting user MolaKule writes (I think member #59 for searching). I believe he is the most knowledgable person on the site. I think you would find his info quite interesting.

Hmmm. A good fuel system additive is not exactly what I would define as "good fuel"

A good fuel has no Dienes, no sulfur, is low on olefines, high octane numbers, etc.

I don't know the redline products. They are not common here in Germany.

quote:

---

It is suppposed to be made largely from Group V esters.

---

I am suspicious against Esters. They have have excellent properties and cost a lot of money. But they can act as seal swelling agents which can be good for your engine - but does not necessarily need to be good.

In addition, I can think of some (very rare) circumstances, where esters have big disadvantages.

I do not have too much experience with ester oils, except with one oil. And this one stinks like cat pee after it was used, and in addition irritates the skin.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callisa:
Hmmm. A good fuel system additive is not exactly what I would define as "good fuel."

---

Guess I took a tangent on the fuel quality thing. I would think USA should have some of the best fuels, but not necessarily. For one thing, I think the EPA and fuel economy regulation/concerns may have adulterated our fuel quality. Still great compared to say Bolivia I would presume.

As for octane number, most of our engines are designed/'set up to run the basic octane and running higher octane is not helpful.

Redline has a european site, but maybe not found in Germany.

quote:

---

I would think USA should have some of the best fuels, but not necessarily.

---

I don't want to hurt your feelings....
but the US has compared to Germany horrible fuel...

Even though Bolivia is worse, I must admit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callisa:
[QUOTE] but the US has compared to Germany horrible fuel...

---

Maybe I should be spending my time trying to find the best fuel in the US and not worry so much about oil. What good is micro improvement in engine oil when the fuel is what is killing me. Thanks. I recently selected to try to stick with BP as it was more highly rated, but that is just from a thread or two on the other site and no real data.

quote:

---

Maybe I should be spending my time trying to find the best fuel in the US and not worry so much about oil.

---

Yep.

At least in Germany BP is O.K. If they could, your Inlet valves would love you for that decission,too.

Ah yes. The inlet valves. Very important. I believe the Redline SI-1 is supposed to help that. The purpose of the SI-1 is largely to counteract less than perfect fuel quality/additives.

Back in '77 I bought a new Ford pickup and had to have it in under warranty for valve work twice. Saw one of the valves and it had huge deposits of black stuff caked on very think and rough. This was when no-lead fuel was just beginning, so maybe they had not gotten the technology down at that time, and the emission equipment of those days war rudimentary and power-stifling. Ah, the good old days!