So far I have 2000 miles on a RACOR LFS-802 bypass filter. My vehicle is a 12 quart sump. The RACOR LFS-802 is rated for a 60 quart sump.

The RACOR LFS-802 filters down to 1 micron. In ISO 4406 testing with bypass filtered oil contaminated to 22/17/16 in 1 pass down to 17/15/8 and in 2 passes down to 15/8/6. The filter also has a 100cc water capacity. In over a 1,000 day period I average 50 miles a day. Enough distance to warm the oil and I think help reduce water and the resultant byproducts of water contamination.

The stated literature is 1 pass 92% of >/= 2um, 2 passes 99% >/= 2um (>/= is greater than or equal to).

I have not done an oil analysis yet, but will at 5000 miles when I plan on changing the OEM full flow filter.

As a first test series I am removing 1 quart of sump oil every 1000 miles and replacing it with virgin oil. I am using Mobil 1 SUV&Truck 5W-40 Synthetic (a pao base oil).

In this first test I am not as concerned with cost as I am concerned with consistent quality of oil chemical makeup over a long period of time and lack of oil oxidation and maintaining the TBN and the additive packages.

So far the only indications I have is the oil dip stick film of oil is not totally purely clean, but only has a very slight tint of soot. The quart I removed at 2000 miles was very lightly sooted. I think the oil analysis lab will have no trouble doing a particle count at 5000 miles. We were a little concerned with particle counting as "normal" diesel oil is too dark to particle count.

Bottom Line,

I think with modification of oil management a diesel oil should be able to extend to some indefinite time.

I think the cost analysis tradeoff is primarily reducing downtime and extending capital investment life. I have read several papers on extending oil intervals strickly for fluid cost control is not cost effective.

I am primarily interested in reducing downtime and extending capital investment life.

Bob Weis

I did a little research and there are 2 continuous engine oil management systems. One is OilMate by EMP (Engineered Machined Products) and the other is CENTINEL by Cummins Engines. Both basically take a small amount of oil from th eengine system, dump that into the fuel tank, and replenish the amount taken from an onboard virgin oil tank. I found them with Google using "Engine Oil Management".

Couple that to an efficient bypass filter system to filter small um particles and it seems like an extended oil system might be applicable.

Is this what you were thinking?

Bob Weis

Dear Bob Weis,
I am not searching for any Oil Purifier which will help in achieving the slogan " No more change of oil", but i wanted widespread discussion on the topic " 2000hours old oil is better than 200 hours old oil in diesel engines if all the parameters are within allowable limits"
I gave the reasons and wanted the opinion of experts with open mind. First we should agree that the above statement is correct, then we will search for a purifier which will help in achieving the extension of oil life to 2000 hours and beyond

"If all the parameters are within allowable limits" and the parameters are the same for the 200 hr oil as the 2000 hr oil, what degree of "better"? Both oils are within the same set of parameters.

i have recently purchase amsoil series 2000 0w-30. amsoil claims that I only need to change the oil 1year or every 35k miles. i also bought there amsoil filter which is rank among the best. I change my filter every 12k.
I am pretty confident this is the best thing to do however rediculous it may sound.

quote:

Originally posted by RWeis:
"If all the parameters are within allowable limits" and the parameters are the same for the 200 hr oil as the 2000 hr oil, what degree of "better"? Both oils are within the same set of parameters.

Dear RWeis,
New oil has almost equal population of weak and strong molecules, weaker molecules have tendency to get oxidised faster. As the temperature of engine oil is very high ,more than 80 degree Centigrade, oxidation cannot be avoided, oxidation products either go out with the exhaust gases or are mixed in sump oil and are filtered out. Oxidation reduces the quantity of oil in sump, thats why topping up is required regularly for making up the required level.So when the oil has become older it has less weak molecules than the strong molecules. It means 2000 hours old oil has more stronger molecules than weaker molecules proportionately, giving two advantages as follows:

Stronger molecules will give stronger oil film for lubrication giving lot of advantages like better lubrication and more engine efficiency.

Stronger molecules have better adhesive power and such oil will stick to every moving or mating surface for longer time, say 72 hours roughly. When you shut down your engine and start it again after some 8 hours or more, the new oil will come down to sump from every nook and corner and when you start the engine again, all the parts start moving dry as oil takes some seconds in reaching those places.This type of cold staring causes maximum damge to engines. When oil is 2000 hours old, it sticks to every mating surface for longer time and when you start the engine again, oil is there everywhere and no part is moving dry.Hence less damage during cold starting.

You cannot achieve this objective without some sort of special oil purifier installed on the engine which removes solid particles upto 1 micron ,removes moisture, unburnt fuel, other liquid and gaseous contaminants from the oil regularly.

2000 hours old means at least 80,000 Km run oil in mobile equipments like trucks or buses,oil will be still better if it is older than 2000 hours old.

quote:

Originally posted by Prabhakar Agrawal:
[QUOTE]New oil has almost equal population of weak and strong molecules,...

Are you talking about conventional oil here? I would think that synthetic, in the production process would already have gotten past this point and be made only of "strong molecules." If not, then what oil company is making a "strong molecule" only oil? If none, I wonder why this type oil is not being produced.

Esters provide this polar ability

http://www.silkoleneoil.com/techtip8.htm
the dry surface should have an oil film and aw additives pre new oil delivery. How are the aw additives replaced in this old oil?

Tall Paul,

I am talking of normal conventional oil only, if it is put into the sump of an engine and run for a longer duration it becomes better and better when all the parameters are kept within allowable limits.It becomes better as the population of stronger molecules go on increasing in comparison to weaker ones. Now the question arises if this oil reduces the damage to engines during cold starting and gives oil film of better strength, why such oil is not produced by the oil companies and supplied to users first hand.

First thing , the oil companies can produce such oil , but the processing will be very-very costly and uneconomical.For example if you ask some oil company to give you oil of exact 68 viscosity or any other viscosity they may charge you a price many times more.Secondly, the drain out period will not increase unless some purifier is used.Oil companies are producing such special oil for racing cars where the requirement is critical and are selling at very high prices.

MGVB8,
sorry i cannot understand what you want to tell.If you are concerned with additives, they are not a problem here. If you go through my all the posts under this topic you will get the answer. Or, you write your doubt more clearly, i will try to clarify.What do you mean by "aw additives pre new oil delivery" ?

The AW additives left by the oil after shutdown don't leave the surfaces even though some oil film may drip off. This ensures at least boundary lubrication until a thicker oil film is established immediately after startup.


Synthetic Esters are highly polar with greater film strength but with a lot more benefits than highly polar mineral such as greater flowabilty at start up and less thinning at high temp.

A thick less drain off oil may help with corrosion.

quote:

Originally posted by Prabhakar Agrawal:
Tall Paul,

I am talking of normal conventional oil only, if it is put into the sump of an engine and run for a longer duration it becomes better and better when all the parameters are kept within allowable limits.It becomes better as the population of stronger molecules go on increasing in comparison to weaker ones. Now the question arises if this oil reduces the damage to engines during cold starting and gives oil film of better strength, why such oil is not produced by the oil companies and supplied to users first hand.

Well, I would like to know how this special oil the oil companies are producing for special racing cars, but would be too costly for the general consumer, differs from synthetics that are on the market now. Surely an ester based oil like Redline can compete with these "special" oils, and maybe a PAO like Mobil 1 can also. What am I missing? The synthetics are engineered for exacting molecular structures with very tight size distribution already and so should provide most of the desired benefits.

TallPaul,
You are missing one point, whatsoever oil you take, you will have to change it after certain period of time.If you take redline or any other oil, still such oils have limited life.

If you take normal and common engine oil 15W40 with TBN around 12, run in the engine for 2000 hours, with some device which removes solid contaminants upto 1 micron, removes water, unburnt fuel and other liquid contaminants and also the gaseous contaminants, you are certainly going to get very good oil in the engine itself. You have not drained oil after stipulated periods, you have saved many changes, you have not created any environmental problem due to disposal of dirty engine oil, still you are getting oil in the engine itself which is capable of reducing its wear and tear to enhance its life tremendously.
Here the point of discussion was
"If with some device we can extend the oil life to more than 2000 hours, the quality of oil is better than that after 200 hours or not"

quote:

Originally posted by Prabhakar Agrawal:
Extended oil life reduces damage to Engines during cold starting:

When the oil is new , it has both weak and strong molecules, the more the oil is used, the more these weaker molecules get oxidised. When the oil becomes very old, the proportion of strong molecules becomes almost 80% and more and the adhesive power of oil increases, the strength of oil film oil increases. Thats why when the oil is older more than normal drain out period, i.e.2000 hours old, it sticks to every nook and corner of the engine for more than 72 hours. So at the time of cold starting, oil is present everywhere and damage to engine is least .
Thats why 2000 hours old oil is better than 200 hours old oil. If you want to enhance the life of engine, extend the drain out period of engine oil to the extent of NO MORE CHANGE OF OIL, yes, but with some device you have to keep all the parameters of oil within allowable limits.

Fantastic theories of oxidation and purification looks some kind of refining technology out here.

Normally hydrotreating is done at high temperatures and pressure but here it is inferred that weak molecules are removed after oxidation ,then the existing structure would become unsaturated and would break down faster[ oxidation]. Hope you get the point.

Naturally as the oil thickens with resin and lacquer it would stick to the nook and corners of the engine.

My two cents worth,hope it helps.

Zavier,
Simply one question. How many hours an engine may be run without changing oil? If i say that 116 high speed engines Cummins NT-855 (Fitted with special oil purification system)have been run without changing oil at one place for more than 6000 hours, what will be your reaction? If i add that the average life of all these engines has been enhanced from 15000 hours to 30,000 hours what will you say? Just go to Loco and Loco Crane Deptt of Tata Steel , Jamshedpur and see yourself.This fantastic result has been achieved there because the officers are bold and they took bold decision.

This topic is still being talked about? Wow I have not been here in sometime. I posted about 1 year ago so sorry for the late answer to Callisa.

Lube Control (or LC20) is a superior antioxidant and also turns carbon and varnish into a collodial lubricant....quite and interesting product.

There website is http://www.lubecontrol.com and last I heard (which was many months back) they were in talks with buyers in Eurpoe to possibly get it over there.

Very popular product over on http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

quote:

Originally posted by JonnyB:
Lube Control (or LC20) is a superior antioxidant and also turns carbon and varnish into a collodial lubricant....quite and interesting product.

Well if that is true then it is going to clean your engine similarly to the way AutoRx is supposed to clean your engine.

TallPaul,

Yes and no. AutoRX is a good product, but quite expensive. Using LC from the beginning there will be no need for AutoRX.