I am installing a hydraulic winch on a 2004 Jeep Wrangler. This winch is connected inline with the power steering pump. I will need a quart or more of ATF+4 fluid to do this installation. The Jeep manual calls for ATF+4. Why is this a dealer only item?

ATF+4 is just a Chrysler spec ATF, as is Dexron for GM and Mercon for Ford.

Some aftermarket oil companies who make synthetic ATF have a universal fluid. Amsoil is one of them...

I think you won't find ATF+4 spec in other brands is because DC won't allow other brands access to the chemistry of the fluid. Thus they would have to reverse engineer the ATF+4, as several synthetic makers are doing. Castrol Syn-tork is also like that.

Here is what I would use. I have this in my 1992 Chevy 4x4, 2002 Trans Am WS6 and 2004 GMC 4X4..

quote:

ATF+3® /ATF+4®
DaimlerChrysler has had their own ATF specifications for many years, but as of 1997, Chrysler owners' manuals no longer list DEXRON as an acceptable replacement. ATF+3 is a readily available mineral oil-based ATF that is suitable in any application calling for ATF PLUS® , ATF+2® , or a Type 7176® fluid. Vehicles manufactured after 1999 require ATF+4® , a synthetic-based ATF only available through DaimlerChrysler.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MikeR,

Amsoil ATF? Is this stuff going to eat my seals? How will it get along with the ATF-4 already in the system?

No its not going to eat the seals. I don't know where you think a company would make a product to do that.
If thats the way you think, then your only choice it to pay the DC dealer for their ATF and be happy about it. If money is your main concern, the dealer price may be lower than the Amsoil MSRP of $7.85 qt US.

btw-I put this in the hydraulic system of my Western Snow Plow last fall and its been working perfectly all winter.

quote:

Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:

* GM DEXRON II®, DEXRON III
* Ford MERCON®, MERCON V
* Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4®
* Honda Z-1
* Toyota Type T and T-IV
* Mitsubishi/Hyundai Diamond SP II & III
* Allison C-3,C-4
* Caterpillar TO-2
* Voith G-1363
* ZF TE-ML 14C
* GM Strasbourg & Opel
* Vickers I 286S & M2950S



APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is completely compatible with other synthetic and petroleum automatic transmission fluids. AMSOIL ATF is a universal, multifunctional fluid and greatly reduces the need for specialized fluid inventories and the possibilities of misapplication.

R U sure you're not a sales representative for Amsoil MikeR?

I am not a sales representative for Amsoil.

I have been using it since 1977!!!

There are other fluids that can be used in place of the seriously overrated ATF+4.

Valvoline Maxlife ATF and some of the MerconV's are suitable for ATF+4 applications.

Don't forget the ATF fluid convertors and some of the multivehicle ATF's that will also work.

quote:

Originally posted by undummy:
Hopefully this isn't like that "info-mercial" website run by Bob and his salesmen!

Not to turn this into a BobIsTheOilGuy bash, but that place is just awful. Yes, there are many there who want to learn and share pertinent information, but the unbiased discussion of all products is not something encouraged nor welcomed by the "moderators"...

Ever notice a lot of posters over there drive imported econo boxs, buy everyting at Walmart which they contend has be best products and slam those who use synthetic oils, especially Amsoil users?

Some of the so called experts are selling Amsoil, Schaffers or Exxon/Mobile or some other products like UOA or engine cleaners like Auto RX. I think that site went downhill when the allow salesman to sponsor the site.

Bobistheoilguy is probably one of the least biased sites on the internet. Everything said on any board takes on the bias of the indnvidual who offers his opinion. Although that board was started by a schaeffers rep, it does not overly rate or overly state their products. among it's sponsors is an amsoil dealer (maybe more) who obviously offers his opinions and recomendacions towards amsoil.
No one should take any single response to any question on a forum as gospel. These are for people to get opinions of various people and form their own educated opinions. If you read enough responses you will get a read on the author's slant.
On this particular subject, I do not agree with the use any Universal ATF, no matter who promotes them because there is no way I know of nor can understand (physics) that any one product can have the cooeficient of friction required in each type of transmission. If you want to see a couple of graphs, (pages in spanish, but the graphs speak for themselves) check out www.widman.biz (currently in the applications section, but the site is undergoing changes).
Read, study, consult, check out forums, and form your own opinions. That is what makes all of the forums valid.

But, this thread was started for his "power steering system".
Because of this, I wouldn't even worry about using ANY synthetic ATF in his PS system regardless of the HFM level or additive!

quote:

On this particular subject, I do not agree with the use any Universal ATF, no matter who promotes them because there is no way I know of nor can understand (physics) that any one product can have the cooeficient of friction required in each type of transmission.

Could we be reasonable? Post started with hydraulic winch and we are now with "coefficient of friction in transmissions". Please allow to (us) mechanical engineers, designers and field engineers, to manipulate with these parameters. Just for the beginning I can assure you that general demands for all geared transmissions are same - the best materials (regarding future use), the best possible manufacturing (machining, thermal and chemical treatment), the lowest possible friction (that allows use of universal ATF) and permanent maintenance.
Lubricant recommendations made by OEM's reflects just their interests not customer's. These interests are: shares in (or even owning) oil companies, tradition, long time business relationships, ... etc.
Any of the lubricants at the market could be exchanged with some other and that is my general approach. For some of them there already are interchangeable tables but for some user have to make comparisons and make conclusions. For that level user have to have knowledge, experience and documentation (available).