I see Gurkha and Mickey and a few other kicked-out users. And some active ones, too.

Alas, I too have been banished from BITOG.

The moderators there don't like criticism.

I'm especially glad to see Gurkha and Mickey here because I thought they were some of the most informative posters on BITOG. I know a lot of newer users are missing out because you guys aren't there.

I follow bitog. I was unaware of problems. What's going on over there that warrants "banishment"?

Well Rokky... you might get a biased answer to that question from those of us who got the BITOG boot. Anyway, I will try to keep this answer as unbiased as I can. I also don't know the details of what the moderators were thinking in any case, even my own... so who knows the real reasons for what has been going on.

Suffice is to say that the moderators who were active at the time had a big crackdown in November and December. The crackdown included deletion of individual posts, deletion of entire threads, and banning members. They weren't lax about any small infraction (real or perceived) against the board rules (religion, ***, politics, personal attacks). They were also intolerant of any negative comments about site sponsors' products or mention of competitors to those sponsors. Any questions about the moderator actions, discussion about banned members, or questions about BITOG policies were also not tolerated.

Around the same time, the board was closed off to non-members. This month, open access was again allowed. I don't know if the moderators have lightened up on the crackdown, though.

After witnessing the crackdown firsthand, I still believe that BITOG is an EXCELLENT resource for those interested in automotive maintenance. However, I would add that site visitors should maintain a little bit of suspicion... especially in topics/posts lauding site sponsor products or in any topic where member posts lean overwhelmingly toward one opinion with no dissent. In those cases, it is possible that contrarian opinions have been deliberately blocked.

" They weren't lax about any small infraction (real or perceived) against the board rules (religion, ***, politics, personal attacks). They were also intolerant of any negative comments about site sponsors' products or mention of competitors to those sponsors. Any questions about the moderator actions, discussion about banned members, or questions about BITOG policies were also not tolerated."

I am concerned when a sponser can receive only good press by moderator intervention. This kind of defeats the purpose of an oil, or whatever, forum.

Thanks for the info kanling

The one I saw personally was in about November. Someone had posted a link to a new oil analysis company saying the pricing was very cheap. The moderators had edited the post so that the link was deleted. (It even said, "link deleted by moderator due to competition from site sponsor")

About a day later, somebody had made a reply that said it was "lame" to delete the link so that even the name of the competitor couldn't be discussed.

Soon after that, the whole post disappeared like it had never happened.

I have since learned that negative posts/topics about Auto RX had been deleted for a long time. (This was found out reading the ToyotaNSaturn "Talking Board", which is a political discussion BITOG offshoot from an independent moderator.)

I was a member of Noria first, BITOG later, if they banned me thats their choice and priviledge, they are out of my bookmarks for sure, even if they ask me back which I very much doubt it, I won't go back, the kind of first hand info there is good, but not that its not attainable elsewhere. I actually like to frequent owner forums where you get the word literally from the horse's mouth and you can avoid Hyundai and Audi peddlers

I have not been banned but got a cease and desist order from the main man.

That forum is nothing but a advertising rag. If they wanted to keep it techincal they should not let the advertisers sell in the forums. Put up a banner or link and thats it. I was over by and there is one thread talking strictly about one advertised prices. That is what should be deleted, anything that sells.

Also, since were complaing. All the old wifes who talk where the best deals are and so on are sickening.

Lets put it this way, paid members have the right to put down, abuse, in****, rebut the non paying member's post, the fairest man and mod was Vetterman, sadly he retired, now the jerk in charge is acting tough, good for him, BITOG's loss anyways.

people spending 25 dollars to check on 7 dollars worth of oil to see if it is holding up

Good point Char, I would only do analysis once just to find out if the oil I am using is doing its job, also to find out my engine condition.

Kanling,

What testament did you break to be banished from the hallowed BITOG?

I didn't break any rule. I just openly criticized the moderators for not following their own policies even-handedly. (Just like you mentioned, certain people were allowed to break the rules without punishment while others had posts deleted.)

I did some criticizing on BITOG and those posts were deleted. I think what really got me kicked off was criticizing the moderators on another board! (http://www.madays.net/talkingboard/viewtopic.php?t=361)

No BITOG rule about questioning or criticizing the policies, but petty moderators will do as they please.

Gurkha, sad to say that Vetteman didn't really retire... he got lung cancer over the summer and just died a few weeks ago.

Others seem to disagree, but in my view all the trouble at BITOG started happening when Vetteman had to turn over duties to the other moderators. I think I know the "jerk" you are referring to, he is the one that seems to do most of the moderation now. And I totally agree with your opinion about him.

Very sorry to hear about Vetterman, long while back, a Audi nut and I had a real going over, Vetterman intervened very justly and eventually it was the paying Audi nut that got thrown out, I will surely miss him, BITOG will never be the same without him.

As for the jerk, he keeps this up, his board will soon be history.

I still read over BITOG sometimes, and there has been a noticable decline in the quality of posts. (There's even a 5-page thread going on about it over there.)

I think a lot of it has to do with the bad decision to cut off the board for a month in December and the poor choice of the new bulletin board software which doesn't allow easy searching.

I don't think BITOG will soon disappear, but the BITOG heyday is definitely over.

Well, well, well. It seems like my lack of posting over there hasn't been without just cause. Getting back into the workforce full time again has indeed affected my desire and ability to view the topics, but I have too seen the decline of the actual material posts vs. the fluff stuff.

Great to finally be posting once again!

This isn't a place for rejects.

This is just a forum with other views and other usefull information.

I get my share of warnings from questioning sponsors and those that push sponser products on the oildrop.

And, many of my posts over the years have been lost, deleted, or edited. I've chatted and exchanged emails with other members who noticed the same issues. They still have several unbiased good members. But, I would say that they lost plenty of good members there too.

You get tired of "nothing works better then sponsors products" and "everything is a snake oil except our sponsors".

But, the UOAs, VOAs, and some member independent testing are great sources of info.

IMHO BITOG has turned into a kiddie flame war forum no better than some of the Mustang/Ricer forums. Mods do a horrible job there. But like anything else......If you dont like it dont go there. I stopped....just could not take loss of mature discussion.

I think you should have put "reject" with quotes. But I understand exactly what you mean. I was one of the first 70 members of that forum and while I rarely post, that forum is no where near what it was compared to the early days. I still read it for the UOAs. You'll notice that Terry Dyson and Molacule no longer post like they used too. Thanks for pointing out the shenanigans going on. I suspected something was up. Two members with filtration background left because of the antics of a passive/aggressive putz.

Just for giggles I've started to post a few comments, questions, and the like there once again. There are still a few very good members there, such as bruce381, TallPaul, buster, Johnny just to name a few.

But, for the most part, it has turned into a my opinion/facts are more correct than yours are war of rubbish and lest we forget that GC (German Castrol) is the Holy Grail of all lubricants for the modern piston engine!!

I'll still visit, 'cause I missed this oil stuff!!!

The xenophobia on BITOG is incredible.