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Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
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So, when were you going to tell our studio audience and all of the folks watching at home that you're an Amsoil dealer?

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The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE.

Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation

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Let us rather concentrate on the universe in which we, sales guys, operate: realities of the business world. To make and distribute oil at a competitive price, a company must be able to manufacture or buy the components at a competitive price, and have enough of a market to pay for the development and manufacturing cost. That company has to be able to “be a player”. Once that company decides to “be a player”, say, in the Porsche market, then the sound and professional way to operate is to present the finished product to Porsche so they put it through the Porsche 996FL Engine test. This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 µm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method. Several mechanics told me that they were relying on “their own testing” to choose an oil. None of these mechanics showed me that their method came close to matching what Porsche does: running dozens of oils through the same 203-hour test, and comparing the results. This test has been designed by Porsche to guarantee the availability of test-proven oils for all Porsche since model year 1973: the letter (attached) given to oil manufacturers specifies that date. This oil testing procedure exists specifically to avoid the wear cam problems created by the fiasco of ILSAC GF-4 being recommended in Porsche by some distributors.

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Originally posted by Buster:
What I am saying is that the additive companies and base oil suppliers are the real drivers of the industry, not Amsoil. With out these companies, there is no Amsoil. Amsoil has been a pioneer in the passenger car synthetic motor oil market.

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Amsoil is a successful blender, but has not always made the best oils on the market. At various times over the course of 30+ years, Mobil 1 has been better and so have other synthetics. Just because Amsoil designs a long drain oil, doesn't mean it will excel in every situation. I don't think there is a "best" oil.

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Originally posted by Buster:
All things considered, Mobil 1 has been better overall. It "officially" meeting more specifications worldwide.

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In racing, Amsoil certainly hasn't dominated. They finally got serious and now make 3 decent racing oils. (Dominator). Redline makes more grades of racing oils then Amsoil. In Nascar, all the teams use custom blended oils made specifically for racing.

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Originally posted by Buster:
Not bad for a small company. Redline has been far more successful in racing than Amsoil for a small blender.

Mobil 1 dominates the market.

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Originally posted by GeeAea:
Well, Tim ..I'd say that Redline has a better "racing image" as perceived by the public. Buster clearly demonstrates this. While I do not associate Redline with racing, per se~, a good percentage of your average "home equity Jeg's street rod out of a catalog" types treat Redline like it's the "Action Wedge" in P.F. Flyers.

I really have never gotten used to gray haired males driving muscle cars. It just doesn't look right (I'm very gray).

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Tom, you are an Amsoil MLMer. Correct?

On Shell, 28 years?

Doing what? I suspect it wasn';t all oils, else how did you get to be expert on rocket catalysts?

Was any substantial portion of it lubes? Or did that just lay an excellent base for your own efforts?

Again, not a slam, I admire anyone who will go out on their own.

As to race series sponsorship. So?

doesn't mean squat, except you paid for advertising. Surely you don't think every Nascar competitor uses every product from a race name?

THAT last, was a slam, BTW.

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All of the other Prototype cars, Ford, Pontiac, Porsche, and Lexus powered used Mobil 1. And not just some special oil, but the exact same product that Valvoline says is no good. That's right, regular Mobil 1 5W-30. I walked through every pit garage and asked every one of them and a few showed me the cases of oil and I saw one of them pouring it in. They also all use Mobil Delvac 1 75W-90 gear oil.

All of the GT cars except for 4 or 5 also used Mobil 1 5W-30, 10W-30, or 0W-40. The cars that did not use Mobil 1 either used Castrol Syntec or Motul.

In the Koni Challenge Class that raced on Friday, most use Mobil 1 with a few using either Motul or Red Line.

The only car that I saw using any Valvoline product was the Mustang of Jack Rousch Jr.

So, conclusion for me is, Mobil 1 may not work in your grocery getter but it sure darn works in those high dollar race cars.

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Many of NASCAR's top racing teams have found one common key ingredient to on-track performance -- the motor oil. In a recent survey of teams in NASCAR's three major divisions, 119 out of the 160 cars that regularly race in the NASCAR Winston Cup Series, the NASCAR Busch Series and the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series use Mobil 1(R) motor oil in their racecars. That's 74 percent of NASCAR drivers who rely on the protection and performance of the world's best-selling synthetic motor oil.

As of October 13, 2003, drivers using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn(TM) anti-wear technology in their racecars have won 57 of the 82 races this year, and have accumulated 267 top-five finishes. That means that in 70 percent of the NASCAR races in all three series, a car lubricated with and protected by Mobil 1 took the ride to victory lane.

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Over 50% of NASCAR teams choose Mobil 1 technology for performance and protection.
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Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40 is specified by the engine builder for all Indy Racing League cars (IRL)

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Doug Yates builds all the Roush engines, and he told us that they use a special blend from Shell that is made just for their engines. I don't know of any legitimate NASCAR Team that uses anything but our oil, Valvoline R&D Racing Blend, Mobil R&D Racing Blend or the Shell R&D Racing Blend. By the way, Roush is sponsored by Valvoline, so I doubt they gave any other company the go ahead to use their name in conjunction with selling a competing brand of oil.

Thanks,
Lake

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We recommend and use Mobil1 5W30 in all our race cars. The same oil they make for regular production cars, we use in our 1450hp drag race engines. It keeps our main bearings looking brand new. GM Racing has used Mobil1 for a very long time. Many years ago, we may have tried something else, but it didn't work as well. A couple of our teams have used different oil due to sponsorships. However, those oils, I believe, are specialty products and blends you can't buy off the shelf. And they still don't out-perform the Mobil1. Mobil1 is the only oil that we've done any long-term testing with, and it performs perfectly.