Topic Closed|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
| VOA/UOA vs. The real world
| Login/Join
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
What does the lab really tell us what is actually going on with our engines?
Why are some people focusing 100% percent of their attention on the subject of VOA/UOA,and not real world conditions and outcomes!!!! Such as... sludge!! Why are there so many class action lawsuits,recalls,and service bulletins regarding the issue of sludge and using oil that is alleged to be proven by some lab or big oil company? Why is engine sludge epidemic all over the net,and all the suits to back this. Why so many engine flush machines on the market that are now proven to be needed and well documented? Why is sludge such an epidemic all over the internet and this site and the other oil sites regarding various makes and models with service records showing in many of the cases the oil was changed at 3 month/3000 intervals using name brand oil.....even synthetic. To name a few, VW, AUDI, TOYOTA,DODGE,ETC. The engines sludge regardless of oil and/or maintenance. Many of the threads on these sites are dedicated to the topic of sludge!! This is why what brand of oil to use is such a hot topic,..otherwise there would be no discussion. Engine wear is not an issue so much....sludge destroying young engines is the issue at hand. Read the article on this site regarding Toyota sludge. Toyota sludge is a very real fact and the post written by Ms.Blake here at noria have been vindicated and proven many times over!! Just read them and then google the facts. Consumers are losing billions!!! Warranties are being denied even with documented oil changes because sludge is not covered!! Fact!!! Why did the Europeans go through a period with sludge known as "black death"??? Google it!! It's fact!! Why did all this occur using name brand oil with an alleged track record that everyone trusted. Why can no lab/car manufacturer ever duplicate engine sludge in a lab,... and then state that the real world is is apparently much more severe on oil then originally thought. Proving the so called experts are baffled,...and/or or selling sup-par oil to add insult to injury!! Why does amsoil state that even using their 35,000 mile oil,...the oil must be changed as per the manufacturer. The named engines are sludge prone. It's on the Amsoil website,...same applies to mobil 1 etc. Even Amsoil fails in those engines if left in over 3000 miles!!! Mobil 1 same applies. This is well documented and proven on a monumental scale. What good did all those UOA/VOA do for those vehicles? Why does every bottle of motor oil on store shelves claim to address sludge and why is it forming in the first place??? This alone proves there is an issue. Big oil is admitting in writing on their bottles their oil is forming sludge in various engines. Every brand claims to address sludge the other brand either causes or can't deal with. Read the bottles!! I have one of those very,very sludge prone cars....2001.5 vw passat 1.8t. Google sludge prone vw 1.8t. Yet, I have no sludge in that engine. The last filter was cut open,..no sludge,..oil fill cap and inside valve cover...no sludge. You all know what oil I use and that alone proves that it works. Why should I even bother to do a UOA when the best lab at work is MY ENGINE AND THE REAL WORLD!!!! The best oil lab test system in the world is your engine and what happens and/or doesn't happen in the REAL WORLD. The above data proves that. Otherwise there would never be any recalls with engines,oil,sludge.... or airbags,gas pedals,brakes,steering,crash test standards, etc.etc. Toyota at present is unable to duplicate the runaway acceleration condition because it only happens in the real world, they are baffled at present....just like with all the sludge in many of their engines that occurs in the real world...they are baffled by the sludge issue as well. Many car makers are lowering oil change intervals...using larger filters(VW),all because of catastrophic sludge destroying engines!! I consider any VOA/UOA at face value only. The engine tells the real story...not some lab at the end of the day. Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
|
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Then why does Amsoil clearly state this on their website. I recall reading that some of the sludge prone engines out there did sludge up with amsoil and was covered by amsoil. That would explain why amsoil now lists this information on their website regarding those engines. Amsoil it would seem had to cover the sludge damaged engines which they have insurance for. If you google this issue...you may be able to verify this. However,The whole point I was making in the first place....it's on the Amsoil website...so they are aknowledging this issue with sludge in at least some of the cases. Amsoil states their oil must changed according to the manufacturer regarding the listed engines prone to sludge. The amsoil can not tolerate a long OCI on those vehicles. This was very smart on their behalf to avoid any further claims. Please go to the amsoil website/and or brochure which I have and check it out. Check out TSB MO-2005-09-29 This is at least one bulletin regarding the sludge issue on the Amsoil Website. This is just to show that sludge is indeed a major and expensive issue on many makes,..foreign and domestic,not just dodge. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Captain Kirk, Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Why does AMSOIL state what on their website? Please quote and reference. AMSOIL was later reimbursed by the auto manufacturer when the AMSOIL was proven not to cause the sludge. AMSOIL acknowledges it so that consumers will know they are required to follow the vehicle manufacturers oil change intervals to insure they will be covered by the vehicle manufacturer. AMSOIL does and has tolerated long OCI on those vehicles and was never shown to cause oil sludge even using extend OCI. It is the vehicle manufacturer that states the oil must be changed according to their new extended oil change intervals to be covered by their vehicle warranty. I checked it out when it was revised in Feb. 23rd, 2010. It was to alert consumers to the new requirements made by the vehicle manufacturers to be covered by their new extended warranties. Still waiting for you to show the "well documented and proven on a monumental scale" that "AMSOIL fails in those engines if left in over 3,000 miles". This has never been proven or documented. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
You may have to google the TSB'S put out by amsoil on the net to get the information. One of them is TSB-MO-2005-09-29 this is posted by amsoil There are many other TSB posted by Amsoil about the sludge issues. Google them! Again, the point I was trying to make is that sludge is a major issue in general. The Amsoil TSB information was just a means to asserts this issue. The whole thread was based on sludge and how it relates to VOA/UOA and various oils in general. I was not trying to slander Amsoil in any way. I have used it in the past and was very satisfied with their products. No issues ever. A typical store bought oil couldn't hold a candle to this oil. Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
The AMSOIL tech service bulletin is to alert which vehicles have been shown to be sludge prone and what required oil change intervals stated by the vehicle manufacturers have to be followed to maintain the new extended warranties provided by the vehicle manufacturers. When you stated "Even Amsoil fails in those engines if left in over 3000 miles!!! ... This is well documented and proven on a monumental scale." I would consider that slandering AMSOIL. Either provide the proof or retract your statement. AMSOIL has never been proven to cause mechanical failure in 38 years when used as recommended. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
I recall reading some information on the net about the above issue. Sludge is a major issue, no doubt about it. I was referring to sludge in general being monumental. Perhaps my flow was a little off. My wording was not meant to say it was monumental with amsoil,it is not as far as I know. Does that now satisfy you??? I was stating that some have also reported having sludge in the engines and amsoil was used in certain cases as is stated on the net in any regard. I do recall reading that online I believe involving a toyota. The oil pressure light also came on in certain cars as well because of filter issues. That is documented on the net. Didn't amsoil also have TSB's with their filters as well?? I do recall seeing that as well!! It's posted by amsoil. I am just referring to the TSB's that is posted by Amsoil. This is why Amsoil has addressed the issue with TSB's on the net regarding sludge. The point is that even amsoil is concerned with sludge and has addressed the issue with the oil and the filters. The whole point was sludge in general. I see you are an amsoil dealer. Perhaps you would like to clear the air regarding all the TSP that amsoil has posted with the filters and OCI. Although,I thought amsoil did a pretty good job of addressing that issue with posting all the TSP'S online. My orginal point was sludge in general and uoa/voa and oil overall failing to measure up to the day!! I was just trying to reference amsoil because of the posted TSB'S BY AMSOIL ON THE NET. That's all. If you misread something,..or I misspoke I hope this clears that up. Now, can we move off of amsoil and on the topic at hand? SLUDGE VOA/UOA. Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
The topic isn't sludge uoa/voa.
A single uoa is not as revealing as a series of them taken at regular intervals to establish a pattern. Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data. |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Not really. For you to state "Even Amsoil fails in those engines if left in over 3000 miles!!!" is still wrong and slanderous. AMSOIL has been used in thousands of those sludge prone engines and has never been documented as causing sludge, even with extended oil change intervals. You are likely referring to https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...1%20EaO%20Toyota.pdf . Since AMSOIL recommends following the engine manufacturers requirements for 3,000 to 10,000 mile oil change intervals to keep the manufacturers extended warranties intact for those specific sludge prone engines, AMSOIL feels using their guaranteed 25,000 mile oil filters is not the best value for the shorter required oil and filter change intervals, and recommends the lower cost Wix and Mann filters. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, |
|||
|
|
Level 2 - 51 to 100 posts |
Tim Vipond Don’t bother, it’s a loss battle all other brand are bad, except synlube off course. Its just another promoting post, ALL the other brand will sludge our engine. I suggest the ops to lock this post before it go out of control.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: vitual_mage,
It’s a jeep thing you wouldn’t understand. |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Vitual.....Thanks for mentioning the word synlube on this thread. It just so happens I happen to own one of the worst sludge prone engines out there. A 2001.5 vw 1.8t that has no sludge thanks to synlube in the engine. Why does my 2001.5 vw 1.8t have no sludge using synlube with no oil changes. The engine and filter are both spotless. I have not seen anyone on this thread answer any of my questions regarding UOA/VOA and why all the so called name brand oil you all love and trust is forming sludge in so many cars. Why all the class action lawsuits over sludge? Why all the service bulletins? Why all the engine sludge flushing machines? Why all the sludge even in the well maintained vehicles with documentation to prove it. What happend to all the testing big oil did on their so called proven oil?? The name brand oil people are putting in their cars is costing consumers billions in loses. Why is name brand oil such an issue if as you say....it was tested and proven. Why does the lab say one thing.....and the real world tell another story. The facts about sludge is proven and well documented with many layers/levels of proof!! Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts |
Captain Kirk, I can see you are afraid of the VOA's that will be coming on your product, why not fess up before we find out everything.
I can tell you are hiding something by bashing other motor oil's. You have sold nobody here on why we should even consider buying your outdated Synlube. |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Why not answer the above questions. Why not stay on topic?? Who said I was bashing other motor oils? I just state the facts....do you deny this? Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts |
Lets just put Synlube in our cars and not worry about SLUDGE. How about popping your valve cover off and show us some pics instead of your sales pitch. Sludge is caused by many things, one of them is extended oil changes where the oil's additives get depleted. I believe if every Toyota owner used Pennzoil Platinum on there 1st OCI and changed there oil at 5000 miles or whatever mileage is stated in there owner's manual then they would not have this problem. Toyota Engines had small oil return holes in the cylinder heads and if the OCI were extended to far then deposits would form. So show us some pics to prove your theory. |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
What you believe is not the topic at hand. The fact of engine sludge is the topic and all the lawsuits. My theory?? Sludge is not theory...it's reality!! The reality of using name brand oil and changing at the proper interval and sludge is the result in many cases under 20,000 miles. Sludge is also discussed here at noria and BITOG in great depth. Why do you think?? It's a very hot topic and a major issue. Look at all the threads about sludge! All the lawsuits,recalls,service bulletins...many were serviced at the dealer at the proper interval using both petroleum and synthetic oils!! Many of you even admit to using auto-rx/or MMO with valve train pics already posted. Why?? Because of sludge!! Why all the radio and tv ads discussing sludge as an issue and all the law firms running infomericals because of it. All of this sludge with your highly regarded brand name oil speaks for itself. Now who is being scammed and by whom? BIG OIL=BIG SCAM Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
Never seen a TV ad from a law firm concerning engine sludge.
Never heard a radio ad from a law firm concerning engine sludge. Name them. Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data. |
|||
|
|
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts |
I do not have any sludge, how about visiting all of the Toyota Message Boards and let everyone know that you have found the answer to the Sludge Problem.
I do not think any of us here are worried about Sludge, its a mute point on this Board. |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
The pattern is.....engines are forming sludge with name brand oil.... and now there are many class action lawuits!! Captain Kirk 2008 JEEP G.C. V-8/2009 MUSTANG V6/2002 VW 1.8T ALL VEHICLES/EQUIPMENT RUNNING WITH SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE |
|||
|
|
Level 5 - 501 to 1000 posts |
The lawsuits stem from bad engine design.
Show the ones from oil. Your nonsense won't fly here anymore than it does at bitog. Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data. |
|||
|
|
Level 1 - 1 to 50 posts |
I wish it weren't, but it's a concern for me. |
|||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
Topic Closed
|
Machinery Lubrication | Reliable Plant
Resources: Oil Filter | Motor Oil | Synthetic Oil | Hydraulic Fluid | Hydraulic System Troubleshooting
© Noria Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
