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Slick 50 contains PTFE same as Synlube

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I didn't read the product description that far up to now. Is that so, the formulation we are talking here contains PTFE?
I thought DuPont as owner and producer of the brand name "Teflon" insisted that their product may not be used in such products.

Just back from Wyoming.

The "not for use in diesel engines" refers only to a 0W40 oil that is designed specifically for the new PZEV engines like Ford's 2.3L Duratec. The 5W50 Lube-4-Life formula can be used in any diesel engine.

MGBV8: This information is dated and worthless. Dupont now sells a version of PTFE specifically designed for inclusion in automotive lubricants. So does Shamrock Technologies.

The PTFE that Slick 50 contains is NOT the same as that in SynLube. SynLube uses a form of PTFE called nanoFlon made by Shamrock Technologies. The particles in Slick 50 are up to 2300 times the size of the colloids in SynLube which are approximately 1 micron in size. The SynLube formula is what's called a lyophilic sol because the solids in SynLube are permanently attracted to the liquid lubricants so they won't coagulate or settle out.

PTFE is produced for use in automotive lubricants both by Dupont and Shamrock Technologies. See the post to MGBV8.

Houckster,

Interseting comments by Molakule at end

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000155

Automotive lubricants covers a wide field of use.

I am aware of their comments. I was the one who introduced the subject in another post that spawned this series of posts.

As I stated above, I was not very impressed with their logic. Basically, they did not evaluate the product for the properties it has but on the negative things they've come to believe based on feedback about other products. No one could state with any justification that the product could not meet the claims made for it.

Basically, their efforts were directed to finding some reason to deny the validity of SynLube so they could use what they are comfortable with and feel that it is the best.

Now a question. What is the cost of getting an oil certified by API, ILSAC, or any of the other certification bodies? I have not had a chance to e-mail Miro Kefurt about certification but with a customer base of 13,000 nonrepeating customers, it is my guess that certification is simply financially impossible. This in no way SynLube could afford all those fees but this in no way means that the product cannot meet the spec.

Also, some comment was made that there was some problems with the specs, specifically I heard some comment about the ACEA specs. Can anyone clarify what the problem is so I can include this information in my e-mail?

Wow. That's a good one.

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SynLube™ Lube-4-Life ® ...for Engines exceeds all of the following performance requirements:

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Oh man, stupid me. It does not fullfill these Specs, it exceeds the specs....
I should have read first, before I start to discuss with you such a product. They do not even claim to have the ACEA or ILSAC releases.

We can discuss now a long time if the product would pass this test or that test. We will never get an appropriate answer, because we don't have the data.

But let's do it the other way round: Let's try to find another oil with Google who fulfills ILSAC GF-4, ACEA A3/B3/B4 and E5. I am quite sure that you will not find such an oil.

By the way, the claimed Caterpillar 10 TBN requirements means automatically that the chemical limits from ILSAC GF-4 cannot be fulfilled.

I posted this link from Oronite so you can see that each Spec has it's own demands concerning the oil. I still believe that you cannot pass with one oil all these specs.
http://www.chevron.com/oronite/products/lubricating_oil_additives/automotive.asp

Callisa: Why be sarcastic? I don't think you know enough about this product yet to reject it. You may think you do but I have seen too many people write this product off just because it's different.

I have asked for a clear statement about what you find questionable about the product. Before I can respond to you, I need this information.

I suggest you read through the website more thoroughly. Your questions may not be answered directly but the information you want may still be there.

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Why be sarcastic?

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I don't want to be sarcastic, even if sounds like that.

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I don't think you know enough about this product yet to reject it

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I wrote before that the product itself may not be bad.
But it seems to me as this Company tries to sell a product by misleading the customer.
This is in my point of view questionable.

As I wrote before, I do not believe that one single product can fulfill or exceed all these claimed Specifications. Why should I trust or use a product from questionable Company? Why should I discuss with them non existing ACEA test results?

O.K. Clear question: How much does this product exceed the fuel economy requirement of the Sequence VIb test, which os part of the ILSAC GF-4 spec?

How can something be exceeded, if you don't have a result from this test?

O.K. Clear question: How much does this product exceed the fuel economy requirement of the Sequence VIb test, which is part of the ILSAC GF-4 spec?

How can something be exceeded, if you don't have a result from this test?

The ACEA specification may be included for those who have vehicles that were manufactured during the time this spec was in use. Many people do not keep up with oil issues as you do and simply get used to looking for this because it's all they've ever needed.

As far as the company being questionable, I must disagree. I don't have all the information about oils that you do but I have never been mislead by SynLube. I have always received good information from them when I asked for it and believe they operate in good faith.

I still think you should read more of what they discuss on their website and then ask for information from Miro Kefurt. He is a trained chemist and a member of SAE. I believe he can answer your questions.

One does not need to live in the USA to have some skeptisism based on some knowledge of the facts .

Count me as a skeptic but before I leave ,

Houckster , I must ask are you involved in any way with this Company ? If you are not , how long has it been since you have used another very good synthetic oil brand and put the pencil to price vs performance in daily use of a passenger car engine operated in the United States .

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Originally posted by Houckster:



Also, some comment was made that there was some problems with the specs, specifically I heard some comment about the ACEA specs. Can anyone clarify what the problem is so I can include this information in my e-mail?

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If you are asking why one oil cannot meet all ACEA specs it's obvious . ACEA A1 , A5 and A3 are each unto themselves and separated .

No one oil can meet these specs .

TIMER: I am not an employee or a dealer for SynLube. I am a customer only. If you wanted to buy SynLube from me, I would refer you to the company.

As far as having used another good synthetic, why? SynLube is better than any other lubricant in my opinion. SynLube lasts 150K miles/3K engine hours/10 years, WCF. At that time, I'll send it back to SynLube who will microfilter the lube and rebalance the additive package. It will then be in brand new condition. I even get a credit from the company if I exchange it for new SynLube. During this time, I will not be producing hundreds of quarts of waste oil which is a growning disposal problem in this country and is considered a toxic waste.

As far as economy goes, you pay up front for SynLube. I am anticipating that I'll only have to spend $195 for the 150K mile period. Plug in your figures for what you use now. Even if you change your own oil, you should still come out ahead but the savings are not my main motiviation. It is the performance of the lube and the knowledge that it maintains its like-new capabilities over its entire service life. The service life for the lubricant given by the company is actually quite conservative according to their website.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Houckster,

TIMER: With regard to the ACEA A1 , A5 and A3 specs, I believe SynLube will meet them. I don't know what these specs mean but if the company put those specs there, it must mean that they stand behind their oil for use in engines for which these specs are relevant. I suggest that since you doubt this, you should e-mail SynLube requesting a clarification. When I was considering the use of SynLube, I had questions and he patiently answered them. More than anything else, it was his answers that prompted me to try the product.

I am not a lube guy, but have been reading posts and learning from this site. I have noticed several entries on this board concerning shear and the breakdown of lubricants at the molecular level caused by it. (Long molecular chains sheared into short chains?) How does SynLube handle this? From what I have read on this board, I get the impression that there is just no lubricant (mineral or synthetic) that, when used in an auto engine over time, will not degrade because of shear. Is my crude understanding of this correct?

Synskeptic: SynLube has this to say in their discussion of viscosity (very useful for a basic understanding of the subject):

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Even more important is the High-Shear High-Temperature MINIMUM specification in SAE J300. In [the] tables below you will notice that there are "two" SAE 40 specifications, one with [a] minimum HSHT value of 2.9 cP for automotive Oils (SAE 0W-40; 5W-40; 10W-40) and the other for Heavy Duty Oils (HDO) (SAE 15W-40; 20W-40; 25W-40; 40).

This double specification is at insistence of heavy duty engine manufacturers who have required HSHT viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service operation. [They require an] HSHT value of 3.7 cP or [a] 27% more viscous oil at 150ºC (300ºF).

Yes, a 27% increase in viscosity makes a difference between Automotive engine that lasts 100,000 miles and a truck engine that lasts 1,000,000 miles!

When you consider that most automotive motor oils are ONLY 3 cP, while our
SAE 5W-50 SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ Motor Oil has a rating of 5 cP, you can readily appreciate why we can claim [a] 300% to 500% increase in typical automotive engine durability, and that is with a substantial "safety" reserve!

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See the entire section on SynLube Viscosity

Houckster

Redline HTHS compared to M1

5W-30 3.8 (M1 3.08)
10W-30 3.8 (M1 3.17
5w-40 4.6 (Silkolene 4.07 & 10W-50 5.11)
10W-40 4.7
15W-50 5.8 (5.11) (Silkolene 5.23)
20W-50 6.1

Redline is approx 65% ester Silkolene approx 20% and M1 10%?

So any better than a good synth PAO?

As you are using synlube do you have VOA or UOA as they do not make available (why? they can post on web site)

I'm intrigued by the fact that you can recycle base stock and just replenish additives - what is this base stock and if so good why is in not used in aviation instead of ester.

The filters sound interesting do you have a link?

The discussion re Synth oil life study was interesting but got nowhere.

Any info use in Rally as Motorsport would be a testing ground.

MGBV8 wrote: As you are using synlube do you have VOA or UOA as they do not make available (why? they can post on web site)The company does do analysis of their lube but the process is very expensive. SynLube provides a service to evaluate their oil SynLube Lube Analysis and I will take advantage of this when the oil reaches the 5 year mark. Per their comments, a valid analysis is expensive and I have only about 7K on the current oil and that's too soon to reveal anything meaningful about how the oil is faring. As to their publishing results of testing customer's oil, Miro Kefurt would probably assert that not even general conclusions could be reliably inferred from other poeple's results because reliable information about the conditions under which the oil was used is very difficult to get. Of course, I agree that publishing some of the results he's found would be very interesting.

As far as the basestock goes, the composition is proprietary so I have no clue. It is composed of 5 liquid lubricants and 3 solids (in the form of colloids). Some use of esters and PAO is made but that's the extent of my knowledge.

I use filters by CM. I really like them. I use two SynLube neodymium magnets inside the steel filter media cage to take any ferric-based debris out of oil circulation though there shouldn't be any. The filter uses Viton seals and is very well made. I plan to use mine 5 years before rebuilding it.

Any info use in Rally as Motorsport would be a testing ground. As you can imagine, SynLube is far too small to sponsor any racing efforts but some use of their lubricants is made in Europe. SynLube Racing