Don't think so much, Alternator. The only good thing you'll get from it, is headache

Hi people. I came across this thread today while doing some general research . . . very interesting - enough to sign up here and maybe even offer some service . Quick intro: I'm a mechanical engineer in the research department of a high-tech company. I've been in this field for 27 years, and essentially make my living by developing and/or using high-risk, bleeding edge technology. I'm not a shill, pimp, troll, etc. !
More relevantly, I'm a car nut. My dad is a master mechanic and I've been working on cars since I was a wee lad. My latest project car is a 2001 Honda S2000. This is a marvelous machine. It's F20C engine is a 2.0 liter inline 4, redline is 9,000 rpm, and horsepower is 240hp @ 8600 rpm. The car is most well-known for it's awesome handling though. Also, its only real weakness is a lack of torque down low. As a track car, this is not much of an issue as you are normally up in the rpm power band. This car got moved up twice in SCCA class (I think) because it totally dominated the class where it "should" be. Mine is turbocharged, (Mitsubishi T5-18Z), has methanol/water injection, custom intake, which I installed, modified and/or built from components. I also do the tuning. Its making 330 horsepower to the wheels and 219 ft lbs torque at 3900 rpm. I've been using Mobil 1. Ok enough for the shameless plug about the test subject.
It's time for an oil change, and here's what I'm willing to do: try Synlube and report on how it goes. I see that there's lots of debate about what/when/ how to test it. I'm no chemical engineer, so what specifically would be the oil analysis test method(s) that would hold merit? Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Hi, Doug.
Here are some details for how to perform a correct analysis of Synlube: http://www.synlube.com/serv02.htm

Another thing that is of great importanse, is to meassure oil temperature, compression and exhaust particles. This should be done before you install Synlube, and after you install it. Perhaps 2 or 3 readings with a 1000-1500 mile interval.
Glad to see that more people are interested in learning more about this great oil.

Looking forward to see your findings, anyway.

Thanks Jonny. I hope the skeptics will chime in on any other conditions to check for. I know about general lubrication principles, but not the chemistry. When it comes to the hybrid synthetic oils, I kind of guess they come out of the jet engine oil technology. Commercial jet engine oil lives for 30,000 hours, which would loosely equate to alot of auto miles. Anyways I don't know but I'm interested.
I did email SynLube, asking what I should get for my specific car. He responded back saying I should really check my oil temps first, and asked about my aux oil cooling setup due to the turbo and high engine power. I liked the fact that he didn't just try to sell me stuff first.

That's a difficult question to answer for someone like me that doesn't have an engineering background. I suggest you talk with Miro Kefurt who owns SynLube and get his comments. I feel sure he will give you an honest answer to your questions.

I am wondering about the methanol/water injection system and if that would be a potential trouble spot. SynLube is made of inert ingredients though and if you haven't had problems with other lubes, maybe it's a nonissue.

It would be very interesting if you keep us updated on your discussions with SynLube.

Thanks - yeah Miro is responding and has provided good info. My water/meth injection is a very moderate level (3gph) and only comes on when intake pressure is over 1psi, when the turbo starts provided boost pressure.
Miro mentioned that for a non OEM turbo setup like mine the Synlube CI would "only" be 50K miles, which is more than good. I only need the Synlube to live for 20.2K miles to break even. I'm not concerned with cost, just interested in the performance.

To do any serious testing you need to have a VOA (Virgin Oil Analysis) done on the new, unused oil. This will give you a base line to compare your UOAs (Used Oil Analysis) that will come later. I've never seen either on Synlube so they would be very interesting.

I would recommend going with Terry Dyson: http://www.dysonanalysis.com/ It will be a little more than just getting samples to a lab(~$25 vs. $60) but you will get professional opinion by a man that consults with race teams, oil corps, and everyone else. You will get real information this way. Not just conjecture on a BBS.

You should note that what Synlube claims is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.

quote:

SynLube is made of inert ingredients

And this is one of them. If this were really true then they would not be doing their job protecting the engine.

I look forward to your experiment though.

Thanks Tempest. Should I have analysis on my existing Mobil 1, VOA and UOA also?

quote:

Originally posted by Doug_:
Thanks Tempest. Should I have analysis on my existing Mobil 1, VOA and UOA also?

For a real comparison between the 2 oils, yes. The same lab should be used for all samples since there is variation from lab to lab.

Don't think it is needed, since Mobil 1 is a widely known product. Besides, Terry have all the numbers on unused Mobil 1 oil. By the way; Terry Dyson is one of the best, in what he is doing, so this would be a smart choice.
Tempest say that you should note that what Synlube claims, is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.
Accepted by whom? The every day driver?

Let me tell you then, that in 1994, Ferrari had some issues with their transmission in the Formula 1. They solved their problem when they changed to Synlube.
Next season, they had a new transmission ready.
Do you think Ferrari would have been using an oil that is not accepted by the best motor and lubrication engineers?
I think not, but maybe Tempest know better than Ferrari, who knows?

A short update; I have now been driving 54000 kilometers(33600 miles)without changing oil. It seem to perform very well. I have also started the use of it in my wifes car, a small 1.3 liter Mazda. It is important that the engine is clean before using Synlube, so we did an Auto-Rx treatment( www.auto-rx.com ). I also added their gear-oil in the manual transmission.

Wow, this threads been kicking for four years now.

This Synlube looks very interesting.

What if Synlube updates their formula over time, and the new version is vastly superior to the old, but you've got it in your crankcase, but you're tied into a heavy oil investment and won't be replacing your original dose of Synlube?

I guess a Synlube customer is a customer only once.

This is a bad business plan, though probably an excellent product.

You can turn the oil in at any time for a credit towards a new purchase. SynLube is the only company that buys back (thru credits towards new purchases) their old oil. Also, it is important to point out that the same basic formula has been in use for 15+ years and has never required a change because the formula has always exceeded the current API spec.

Finally, the company's experience with the oil has been good enough that they have extended the oil's service life from 10 to 15 years so if you're a low mileage driver and the engine's in good shape, you can keep the oil longer.

The situation you describe is unlikely to occur.

How many miles/kilometers do you have on the clock these days, Houckster?

Is that oil filter you're using picking up any stuff that you can see?

quote:

Originally posted by Houckster:
You can turn the oil in at any time for a credit towards a new purchase. SynLube is the only company that buys back (thru credits towards new purchases) their old oil. Also, it is important to point out that the same basic formula has been in use for 15+ years and has never required a change because the formula has always exceeded the current API spec.

Finally, the company's experience with the oil has been good enough that they have extended the oil's service life from 10 to 15 years so if you're a low mileage driver and the engine's in good shape, you can keep the oil longer.

The situation you describe is unlikely to occur.

So how does Synlube keep people from turning in any old oil and calling it used Synlube?

With regard to

quote:

So how does Synlube keep people from turning in any old oil and calling it used Synlube?

First they keep a record of their customers, secondly, SynLube is so completely different from conventional motor oil that it would be spotted immediately. Also, the customer pays to ship the oil to SynLube. If they ship counterfeit oil back they're going to be out of the shipping costs.

I have driven very little this year, less than a 1000 miles so far because of the high gas prices. I can afford to drive but I just won't pay those prices. I'm taking public transportation five days a week. This saves me a lot of money and it's kind of a patriotic thing too. The CM filter continues to work excellently. There hasn't been a hint of a problem. I disassembled the filter about six months ago and just put everything back in. There was no gunk, sludge, evidence of wear particles or anything.

I have also bought two oil sample tests from Terry Dyson. He is familiar with SynLube and I will send him samples soon. I have a trip planned for Michigan this month and I think I will wait until I return from that trip before submitting my samples. I am also going to try and get an emissions test done where they will actually measure my exhaust to see how clean the engine is. I'll post all that stuff when I get the results regardless of the results that are reported.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Houckster,

Sounds good. So the oil you're running right now is four years old?

Closer to five years now. It was installed in January, 2004. About 4-6 ounces of oil consumption during that period.

All comments noted and digested ,with first consideration as to practical implementation of it. My experience ,un-professionally done,with lubes and with the similar anecdotal comments as to results,boils down to the practicality of each technology. There is one lube company which can lay claim to many such glaring reports as Synlube,only with a little twist;--Practical cost factors,easily put in place by average vehicle owner, and reliable performance of all products. I used /tested their 100% syn(PAO)in an Acura which Factory service said was not-repairable(Flat Cam Lobe-Bad maint. history)The oil was in the engine at least Four years with Three Filter changes(Rated at 30 Microns Full flow).The Banging gradually quieted down to only at start-up,and then completely after that period,and had no problem selling auto (bad A/C )when time came.Now you know that is a no-no and all warranties are off for that guarenteed 25000mi/1yr oil,but who wishes to discuss any warranty,even on new autos.??
I must add here that I have done many seat-of-pants tests on filters,Ionization,conditioning and vehicle applications for lubes,and what is out there to the public,in great technology/products could fill the head of a pin. They are all big secrets conditioned by the entrenched mktrs.of Lubes,and the certifying bodies which appraise them.But the public is awakening,as is evidenced by this forum. Thanks for your comments in the past and future.

quote:

Originally posted by TechSpec:
All comments noted and digested ,with first consideration as to practical implementation of it. My experience ,un-professionally done,with lubes and with the similar anecdotal comments as to results,boils down to the practicality of each technology. There is one lube company which can lay claim to many such glaring reports as Synlube,only with a little twist;--Practical cost factors,easily put in place by average vehicle owner, and reliable performance of all products. I used /tested their 100% syn(PAO)in an Acura which Factory service said was not-repairable(Flat Cam Lobe-Bad maint. history)The oil was in the engine at least Four years with Three Filter changes(Rated at 30 Microns Full flow).The Banging gradually quieted down to only at start-up,and then completely after that period,and had no problem selling auto (bad A/C )when time came.Now you know that is a no-no and all warranties are off for that guarenteed 25000mi/1yr oil,but who wishes to discuss any warranty,even on new autos.??
I must add here that I have done many seat-of-pants tests on filters,Ionization,conditioning and vehicle applications for lubes,and what is out there to the public,in great technology/products could fill the head of a pin. They are all big secrets conditioned by the entrenched mktrs.of Lubes,and the certifying bodies which appraise them.But the public is awakening,as is evidenced by this forum. Thanks for your comments in the past and future.

So, uh.......what'r'ya trying to say? You like Synlube, or you don't?