I just finished reading an overview from late 2008 in which discussed ashless anti-oxidants , the trend of using groupII and groupIII base oils which have showed more stability but overtime can yield to higher deposits when tested using the TEOST MHT (Thermo-oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test Moderate High Temperature Procedure –ASTM D7097. These oils have 30-50% more anti-oxidants for GF-4 than GF-3 had .

It also has a short about moly and it's future roll and it seems minimum at best . Also and probably foremost along with ashless anti-oxidants and newer additives to additise oil for increased base number , they of course speak about ZDDP .

Anyone have additional thoughts or comments ?

http://www.lubrizol.com/press-...rary/TLT9-08Shah.pdf

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Motorbike,

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Thanks....let me take a look.

That was a good article. I can see why some oils like Redline chose to stay with high levels of ZDP.

Have you noticed their 5w40 containes no Moly?

Even though we read about need to reduce sulfur the current focus is on thermal degradation of the ashless additives and " controlling " the oxidation rate of sulfur and phosphorus-based additives .

I've been reading about ashless zincs and one type had 12% additive loss vs 40-100% loss of 3 or so other type zincs after 64 hrs . The quantative testing was able to identify both soluable and insoluables .

Ashless AO's and salicylates are in - metals on the way out

No metals... no way!!!

Seriously though, I feel that Fuch's Titan GT completely ZDDP free oil is the way to go. In fact, I've expressed a serious interest in this oil but it isn't available to those of us in the states.

Keep the articles coming Motor, they're very interesting reading!!!

Hey , thanks for the reply .

Some new oils are coming to market - I want to know what Shell is going to offer in N America because they can build some very potent formulas using their XHVI base oil combined with ester and or pao or all three

Dad2leia , here is a Yubase article showing that All Group III's Are Not Created Equal So That Is Why I Don't Want Any At This Time He He

EDIT:

That was the wrong link but i'll leave it . There's a top tier group III in here .

But Shell makes Olefins and XHVI . I want some Shell motor oil but Walmart don't stock it

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Motorbike,

Back when a groupIII ELF 5w-30 was introduced to the NA market , i dug in and tried to learn about how ELF was sorta pioneering the effects of oxidation and how it effects the lube when under 40c . Of course there is now a test sequence that must be passed for ACEA .

All that info is gone now but here is a tidbit about oxidation and , insolubles , aromatic content and sulfur in base oils .

sulfur-bearing aromatic compounds contributes in the formation of insoluble products during oxidation.

This is the new oil sample ELF SXR 5w-30

This perhaps is one of the top 3 oils i've personaly have seen used and it was group III in 2004. It went long in a Toyota hi-way car .

Notice lack of Bo precip from DI .

API SL/Renault

Mo 0
Mg 19
Bo 0
Barium 0
Calcium 3515
Phos 1132
Zinc 1492
Vi 11.12
Si 4
TBN 10.4

ELF SXR Data sheet

The quality definitely varies with Group III's, with Shell's being at the top of the list. The only area where even the best Group III's can't match PAO's is in volatility and pour point. Oxidation resistance seems to be on par.

Platinum is already one of the best oils on the market IMO. Holds up very well in many different engines.

The new 30wt Pennzoil is PAO . The formulation test for me with large calcium and that oil would be low oxidation - low insolubles . Those go hand in hand with depleted or spent metals .

Anyway , the PAO is why i personaly would chose Pennzoil over Valvoline if i actualy had to choose between the two .

As an aside ,myself ,I like Alkane 4-6 and 8

PP 5w/10w30 is PAO now?

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GSAP_msds_00018715.PDF

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Buster,

Yep , look at the date . They nipped it in the bud with " a blend of polyolefins " . Also i just looked and the Pennzoil site has updated specs dated Feb,2009 - HT-06 ACEA A5 ect . The Q State " synthetic " remains highly refined type and the msds is up to date as well.

At the link you posted take a look at the Rotella 5w-40 CJ-4 - it has some PAO these days as well. I wish they made a 10.0 cSt 5w-30 in that formula

I can see in future that after a initial service to clean out the FF, a sealed for some time(2-3) years fill, or OCI. This could be done with a real syn oil, and much better filtration, especially on the air path. Modern engine allready have lots of near ceramic materials and coatings, and say a full ceramic liner and rings, and possibly valves with EM valve actuation, along with the seats, could help extend OCI's.