When I asked Roy Howell of RL about the 4-Ball wear test, he said the same thing that Mobil, Shell, Castrol, and LE said. Bascially it has ZERO to due with real world engine performance and that rather then spend money on additives to make the wear scar lower, they spend the money else where. Amsoil should take that money and fix the oxidation issues their oils have.

http://forums.yellowworld.org/archive/index.php/t-1136.html

The repeatability is very poor with that test. Not to mention testing used oil shows a whole different number. Amsoil won't show you those. Very good oils with some hype/bad marketing thrown in. But they all do that. My biggest compliant with Amsoil is the fact that it can't stay in grade very well over a long drain interval. Thickens badly.

quote:

Originally posted by Winston:

quote:

Originally posted by ahowkins:
Can anyone help me comparing Mobile 1 synthetic oil to Penzoil synthetic oil.

Mobil is a pao based formulation while the Pennzoil is a group III based oil .

Although some of the group III formulations offer very good performance for the same money I pick the pao and Mobil has a very , very good additive package .

Please try the Pennzoil and have it tested after using in your car and let us know the results .

If you are talking about Penn Platinmum, this is not a majority GIII, but rather an EOS synthetic that should be in the same class IV as the PAO.

If you are talking about Penn Platinmum, this is not a majority GIII, but rather an EOS synthetic that should be in the same class IV as the PAO.[/QUOTE]

I relly can not understand that standpoit - ...it should be in same class as PAO.
Isn't it already defined: PAO, petroleum (a few classes), ... Why do we have to consider something if we do not need it? Look at specifications .. and everything is clear.

Related to someone's post about Mobil1 and Pennzoil read this:
Pennzoil - The PENNZANE® which is touted as "developed for and used by NASA" has been actually developed for use in vacuum pumps, and computer drives. It was never intended for or ever used in any engine!
PENNZANE® in its pure form costs about $400.00 per US quarts and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that in the Consumer version of the "synthetic" motor oil with PENNZANE® that sells for under $4.00 there is about a drop of PENNZANE® in 5 gallons!
The Back Label of PENNZOIL "Synthetic" with PENNZANE® also instructs the user to: "change motor oil EVERY 3,000 miles for best performance" !
Why then it costs four times as much conventional Petroleum Motor Oil if it is not all that much better, and definitely does not last in service any longer?

Mobil - Back labels of Mobil 1 products for many years had following:" *exclusive of carrier oil" statement in substantially smaller print. At the same time the front label declared the Mobil 1 as:"100% Synthetic * ". in really large print.
If you are a good detective you’ll notice that the statement on the Front label ends with an asterisk (*) and the statement on the Back label starts with an asterisk (*). If you are really good, you’ll figure out that the asterisks are the magical "glue" that connects the two together and that what should be understood is:
" 100 % Synthetic, exclusive of carrier oil ".
Well, that is only the beginning of our decoding mission. When asked, majority of consumers has absolutely no idea what "carrier oil" is, or what the meaning of "exclusive of" really is.
Well then, what does Mobil (ExxonMobil) have to say about that ?
Q: Is Mobil 1 a fully synthetic oil?
A: Yes, it’s 100% synthetic. The base stocks used in blending Mobil 1 are all "chemically constructed" instead of being simply segregated out of crude oil like conventional mineral oils.
Q: Then why does it say it contains a petroleum carrier for additives?
A: All motor oils contain additives that provide extra protection against wear, corrosion and engine deposits. These additives are usually high molecular weight materials – sometimes even solids. Conventional carrier oil is used to make these additives soluble. All motor oils will contain some of this carrier oil, usually only amounting to a small percentage of the finished product.
(Source of above Questions and Answers is http://www.mobil,com and Mobil 1 promotional literature)

quote:

Originally posted by Jmac:
[QUOTE]If you are talking about Penn Platinmum, this is not a majority GIII, but rather an EOS synthetic that should be in the same class IV as the PAO.

The following was posted on another site re Pennzoil Platinum (but is seems it is EOP instead of EOS):

quote:

Pennzoil Platinum - EOP base stock and additive package produced by Shell Chemical

ethylene-alphaolefin polymer. Here's an excerpt from a trade article from 2004:

PAOs have long been the premier base stocks in terms of performance. Although challenged by Group III stocks, PAOs still represent the superior product in the industry; however, Shell Global Solutions is developing a fluid to give PAOs competition from an economic and performance standpoint.

The fluid, known as ethylene-alphaolefin polymer (EOP), was originally developed by Pennzoil-Quaker State, now owned by Shell. Shell recently scaled up a pilot plant to produce EOP, making viscosities comparable to PAOs, like 4 and 8 cSt material.

At a recent presentation in Ostfildern, Germany, a Shell representative stated EOP is synthesized from ethylene, propylene and butene using a single-site catalyst, and the reaction products from the process exhibit comparable physical and chemical properties to PAOs. Even more, the feed stocks and manufacturing costs are significantly lower for EOP than PAOs.

However, some issues exist with EOPs that must be resolved first, of which additive solubility and seal compatibility represent the highest priority. Finished costs are expected to be 20-30 percent lower than PAOs for the 4 and 8 cSt material, with higher viscosities being as much as one-third the cost of a PAO.

So, since most of us can't look inside a bottle of oil and tell what's there while we're shopping for that just-right oil, then all this stuff about 4-balls, EOS, EOP, GIII is just advertising. This also includes labels like 'synthetic blend'...what? If the oil is synthetic in a conventional carrier oil, then blended, how much is synthetic? It sure is good that the marketing departments of these oil companies are such stand-up guys and tell us everything we need to know, right on the bottle.
I've read the bottles and next time I go shopping I'm going to look for a Start-Up, High-Mileage, Synthetic-Blend, EOP/EOS, GIII, Hard-Driving, Cold-Weather, Trop-Artic Anti-Sludge oil for my car. None of this voa, uoa stuff for me, no sir, these bottles know what they are talking about. I want my drop of synthetic magic in every bottle.

Really right approach:..."I want (my drop of) synthetic magic in every bottle" - if you think that when you aimed to syntetic oil bottle it should be undoubtely synthetic. But, if you (because of "drop") think about Pennzoil I do not agree with you. Right now (for quite some time) I use Amsoil and it will be till someone find good technical reasons to convine me in something else. When I purchase Amsoil I do not need to think about percentages, groups, EOS,... Just pure synthetics (PAO) and - that's it.

Amsoil is good oil, no argument there. I just wish they would drop that 4-ball wear test stuff. It makes them look like a carnival vendor. Other synthetic oil blenders all say it serves no practical purpose. Amsoil gives a good explination of what they are trying to show with the test, but evidently, the message is aimed at less informed consumers.

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Winston. Do you know the type of synthetic in other brands? Particularly I am interested in Valvoline Synpower.

The Valvoline is made with PAO and group III but the amounts of each vary in their line-up . A look at the NOACK should help .

The SL Synpower was an overlooked OTC oil in terms of outright engine protection for everyday use and IMO was on par with Syntec , Royal Purple ect but at around 1 dollar or more per quart less and probably better than some .

API SM has brung a host of new oil formulas to scrutinize and time will tell ... for those that have the time


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