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2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive
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Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?
 
Posts: 358 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Due to the rather thin mix ratio I doubt it will do any harm. Problem is I doubt it would do much good at such a thin ratio either. I say thin because regular mix ratio's for 2 stroke oil is from 1:16 to 1:50. So at .25 oz. to the gallon that would be 1/10th of the 1:50 ratio, thin. Using a additive designed for 4 cycle engines would provide adequate lubricity at 1:400 ratio or 1.28 oz. to 4 gallons. You would be using just slightly more but getting better lubrication along with additional benefits like cleaning up the fuel system and helping with water contamination.


Michael Bialecki
Texas Refinery Corp.
www.trclubricants.com
 
Posts: 215 | Location: PA. USA | Registered: Mon September 18 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Since cars are routinely going 100,000 miles +++ without doing this I would have to ask what if any benefit is to be derived? On the "con" side, what is this doing to the life of the catalytic converter?

John from PA
 
Posts: 4 | Location: Exton PA | Registered: Thu January 29 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Why add the 2C oil? Cars do go over 100,000 miles, but I drive them closer to 200,000 miles. Also even within the 100,000 miles you do hear about fuel pumps going out and injectors needing to be cleaned or replaced. So there appears to be a need. The question is whether the 2C is going to really address that need or not.
 
Posts: 358 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have had (8) Honda Accords since the 1970's. I personally drove all of them to about 125,000 miles. Two were purchased by a neighbor - he took one to 280,000 miles and was pissed he didn't make 300,000. The trunk rusted through and would not support the gas tank. The 2nd he currently owns and it has about 240,000 miles. None of these cars has needed any injector work (admittedly some had carbs) and only one fuel pump was replaced.

I just don't see the need...or benefit.

By the way mixed into the (8) Honda's was one Mercedes that spent more time in the shop that all the Accords combined. One was enough.

John from Pa
 
Posts: 4 | Location: Exton PA | Registered: Thu January 29 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.
 
Posts: 409 | Location: New York | Registered: Fri May 01 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?


I tried this with a Acura Integra GSR. Went from 28mpg to 30mpg. Smile

The problem in the longrun is the cat converters clogging up..

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.


MMO is great stuff! But... 2-Cycle is cheaper.

Anyone had any experience doing this with DIESEL fuel?

[Update 5/16/09: Seems like it works well in Diesel but some have commented that Power Service as an additive does a better job because you get a cetane boost amongst other things not just a lubrication boost.]

@TallPaul: You might be interested in this
http://www.thedieselstop.com/f...lowing-smoke-188966/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ebolamonkey,
 
Posts: 43 | Registered: Wed May 13 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm switching over to MMO. Already running MMO in the Aerostar and Motorhome, the 4.9L F150 will continue to get 2C oil until I use up my remaining 10 qts, or maybe I can sell it off.
 
Posts: 358 | Location: Detroit, Michigan | Registered: Thu January 08 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cheapest I've seen is @ Walmart. 32Oz for $3.6
 
Posts: 43 | Registered: Wed May 13 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Before using MMo in the fuel I like to run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner followed by a Maintenance Dose of MMO. It is important to make sure the fuel system is clean.

A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.

Since using MMO I have noticed a 2 m.p.g. improvement, I feel the MMO is keeping the valves sealed and clean as well as keeping the fuel injectors free of carbon.
 
Posts: 409 | Location: New York | Registered: Fri May 01 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by John from PA:
I have had (8) Honda Accords since the 1970's. I personally drove all of them to about 125,000 miles. Two were purchased by a neighbor - he took one to 280,000 miles and was pissed he didn't make 300,000. The trunk rusted through and would not support the gas tank. The 2nd he currently owns and it has about 240,000 miles. None of these cars has needed any injector work (admittedly some had carbs) and only one fuel pump was replaced.

I just don't see the need...or benefit.

By the way mixed into the (8) Honda's was one Mercedes that spent more time in the shop that all the Accords combined. One was enough.

John from Pa


I own both Accord V6 96 model and several MB vehicles and couldn't agree with you more about the reliability of the Accord. Only the older MB OM616/617 diesels can do better than the Accords but not overall. MB gas engines don't match up to Accord. I have used M-1 from day one on my Accord and Delo 400 on my diesel MBs, I have been quite happy with the high mileage performance of both.
 
Posts: 138 | Registered: Sat April 10 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
. . .
A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.
. . .


But remember, the TC-W3 has to be able to perform as a cleaner in the engines for which it's really meant. Wouldn't the cleaning ability conferred upon it (albeit meant for the 2C engine) also act as a cleaner in a 4C engine as well?

BTW, I've been experimenting with the PZ ester-based syn TC-W3 at about 400:1. I can't draw any hard conclusions yet, but I do seem to have had a slight mileage increase. Also, the frequent starts of the gas engine (I'm driving a Camry hybrid) are notably smoother, to the point that I miss some of them. I'm inclined to think there's something to it, as I often use the slight rumble of the engine pre-lubing itself as a cue to back off the gas pedal, in order to prolong an all-electric run.

As a previous poster noted, my car could almost certainly live a long, happy life minus any additives, but hey, it's a fun and educational experiment anyway.


___________________________
09 Camry Hybrid, Black (PP 0w-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (PP 5w-20).
04 Prius, Black (GC -- 0w-30).
 
Posts: 14 | Location: Pensacola FL | Registered: Sat June 05 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I may just have to agree with epolk here, even though I use MMO in the fuel and I have not used the TC-W3, there are just too many positive posts about TC-W3 so I may have to give this stuff a try.
 
Posts: 409 | Location: New York | Registered: Fri May 01 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
I may just have to agree with epolk here. . .


Stranger things have happened -- but not many of them! Wink

===============================================

quote:
Originally posted by Ebolamonkey:
. . .
The problem in the longrun is the cat converters clogging up..

. . .

How so? The TC-W3 standard calls for oils that contain "ashless dispersants". In other words, they're meant to burn off virtually completely, not leaving deposits in the CC or the cats.


___________________________
09 Camry Hybrid, Black (PP 0w-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (PP 5w-20).
04 Prius, Black (GC -- 0w-30).
 
Posts: 14 | Location: Pensacola FL | Registered: Sat June 05 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD


US Navy. Helping keep us safe.
 
Posts: 609 | Location: WA | Registered: Sat May 02 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD


AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.


___________________________
09 Camry Hybrid, Black (PP 0w-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (PP 5w-20).
04 Prius, Black (GC -- 0w-30).
 
Posts: 14 | Location: Pensacola FL | Registered: Sat June 05 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A few years ago when the 2 strokes were still very popular, we found that Petrol Pumps in India ( Gasoline/Diesel Service Stations) particularly in the rural India were supplying recycled or spurious lube oils and passing them off as 2 T oils. Needless to say this generated lot of pollution in the air apart from damaging bikes.

One single factor that differentiates 2 T oil with 4 stroke oil is its "dispercent package." In two stroke bikes the fuel is the carrier for the lubricity, hence good dispercency ensures the "Oil" is mixed speedily before it goes into combustion. I also recall we used to give demos to users by releasing a few drops of 2T Dispercent Oil and Engine Oil in measuring cylinders, containing Petrol. The engine oil would sink to the bottom, while the 2T oil had started mixing after dropping into the fuel.

If you are using this property to reach critical areas, its a great idea. More so, as currently available Euro IV type fuels, while they have low sulphur ( 10 ppm) have thier inherently available aromatic compounds stripped along with Sulphur ( by hydro treatment) thus, off late the injectors, pumps are prone to wear. In fact, I recall reading, that Bosch is now replacing a higher percentage of injectors/pumps than ever before.

Finally, I feel that by use of good fuel additives ( which also possess detergency ) you get desired results. If the additive also provides some "wear protection" (like Boron CLS Bond ) you would have met your objective and more.

Hussam
 
Posts: 257 | Location: Singapore & Manila | Registered: Wed February 11 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://www.freel2.com/forum/to...8.html?highlight=oil

Good technical discussion on 2stroke oil in diesel, kudos to Yamaha Fan for her well defined replies.
 
Posts: 138 | Registered: Sat April 10 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD


AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.


That's been my observation as well. But I'm using the Walmart Supertech TC-W3.

What got me started: http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206


Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data.
 
Posts: 788 | Registered: Sun March 14 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ive always use super tech tcw3 oil. but over the past couple of years have had a lot of issues with our auto parts using this walmart tcw3. anyone aware of similar analysis regarding quality?
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: Wed March 31 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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