COULD WE CALL GROUP III BASE OILS SYNTHETICS? WAHT SHOULD BE THE LEVEL OF SYNTHETICS COMPONENTS IN FINISHED OIL, SO WE COULD CALL THEM PARTIAL SYNTHETICS AND FULL SYNTHETICS?
Group 3 base oils are not synthetic oils.The advantages of the group 3 base oils are low sulphur content,high parafinic content and high viscosity index.
The courts ruled that Castrol could call its group III oils "synthetic", but really all they are is highly refined dino oil. That opened the flood gates for everybody to call them "synthetic".
Synthetic: chem produced artificially by the synthesis of simpler materials or substances rather than occurring naturally
Sorry, but that's the dictionary definition. Based on that, and with some knowledge of general chemistry, even some Group II oils (isosyn based) substantially meet the definition of . . . synthetic. Please, let the great debate . . . END once and for all.
Safest bet is to figure "synthetic" means Group III base oil unless told otherwise. I would think most companies that use PAO and ester base oil would be proclaiming that fact as a marketing edge over the others. So if they say it's proprietary information, read between the lines.
Group III base oils are subjected to the highest refining levels and while they originate from crude oil, they are chemically rearranged to offer molecular uniformity and stability for very good performance in a wide range of lubricating properties. They are commonly marketed as synthetic or mixed with lower group base oils and marketed as semi-synthetic products. Group III base oil products are increasing in popularity.
Posts: 54 | Location: Michigan USA | Registered: Wed April 28 2004
It's hard to tell what you're getting when you buy some oils. TallPall has it right, if the synthetic had more expensive ingredients, maybe GIV or GV, that would be on the label.
Here is an example. PurePoer, a GII+ oil does not say synthetic but has a description that is pretty impressive, and it costs about the same as oils like Red Line, $7.95 a quart, in case lots. The following description is pretty impressive. For a price like that, what are you getting? The problem is that it might be worth the money. How would you know?
quote:
Pure Power! SAE 10W/30 CI-4/SL* Motor Oil is API Licensed for Long Drain and Energy Conserving. Pure Power! has an extremely high TBN/Alkaline Reserve (13+) which effectively neutralizes corrosive acids to protect bearings and other vital surfaces. Pure Power! extends motor oil change intervals 2-4 times, lowers operating temperatures, lowers emissions, increases fuel mileage and increases horsepower. These are just some of the benefits from using Pure Power! EHP Motor Oils. API Service Classification CI-4/SL*, exceeds O.E.M. requirements for alternate fuel, gasoline and diesel engines. Pure Power! Motor Oils are proven to be extremely cost effective when used in conjunction with an effective Oil Analysis Program. Pure Power! provides superior internal protection for gasoline, diesel, natural gas, propane, methanol or turbo-charged engines. Exceeds GM specification 6069M, Ford Specification M2C153E, Mack T-9 Specification Mack’s preferred recommendation is SAE Grade 15W/40. Not recommended for Electro Motive Diesel engines with silver bearings. Meets MIL-L-63460 requirements. *Qualifies Long Drain & Fuel Conserving 1Case/12Quarts
Posts: 100 | Location: California | Registered: Sun June 12 2005
Group 111 by legal definition is a synthetic, but Clinton did not have sexual relations by a legal definition either. PAO or ester is the only true synthetic based oil. AMSOIL is a PAO based oil. check it out at: www.lubedealer.com/tntsynthetics
What counts is performance per $. In many instances group III can give the same performance for a lot less money. I think companies should disclose enough of their formulation for people to consider, and then look at the price and decide. The courts decided that group III is synthetic, and I've seen the tecnical arguments in a paper published by Chevron. I prefer to use the term "traditional synthetic" to distinguish in talks or papers. when comparing the products.
The wonderful world of philosophy. What is and what is not.. The word "Synthetic" is roughly interchangeable with the word "Modified" and its useage. To illustrate: You want to sell a modified car. The person who responds to your add is going to ask "What vehicle is it?" and "What has been done to it?" A cheap car with a free flowing exhaust added is a modified car. So is a GT3 Porshe. The reality is that oil companies try to give high end impressions while keeping to a minimum the molecular modification of the most economocally viable mineral basestock. The best base stocks available in the automotive world are Poly-ol-esters which are very expensive, The cheapest is a barrel of crude bought straight from your nearest oil well. Everythging else is in between...
Regards, Roger M
quote:
Originally posted by YEHUDA: COULD WE CALL GROUP III BASE OILS SYNTHETICS? WAHT SHOULD BE THE LEVEL OF SYNTHETICS COMPONENTS IN FINISHED OIL, SO WE COULD CALL THEM PARTIAL SYNTHETICS AND FULL SYNTHETICS?
Posts: 12 | Location: Australia | Registered: Thu May 18 2006
to qualify as a " pure/ full synthetic " motor oil the additive pak must be considered. does anyone know of a synthesized zinc, phosperous, boron, calcium, magnesium, etc? how effective would a plastic zinc compound be ???
all the additives used in a PCMO are MFG as in reacted so Id say they are synthetic BUT the dilute base oil used to dilute the additives for a blender to use are mostly GPI.
That said most people do not or think or care about additive diluent oil. And I think the syn or dino applies to the "rest" of the base oil used. bruce
Posts: 227 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: Fri July 15 2005
Hello, first try here. Valvoline calls some of their product premium conventional oil and that is what I would call a group 3 product base oil.True synthetic oils only have in them what the maker wants, with mineral oil they try to remove what they don't want in there and additize to correct what they can't remove. Moving from group 1 to 2 and 3 they get progressively cleaner and closer to only having what they want them to contain.
Well jailed colonel, I like to think that I have Group III when I run Valvoline Premium Conventional, and maybe that is exactly what it is. Some have suggested that any oil meeting todays stringent standards pretty much has to be Group III, though some mixtures of Group IV or V with Groups I and II, II+ probably also meet the standards and may be just as good.
I would think almost all dino SM is group 2 at best with some 2+, 3 and even umm piquito of 4 added in various amounts. All group 3 vs. say group2, the price will tell and pay for 3 you will and to much based on the real relative cost difference.
