Is there any std test procedure to determine the amount of steel particles found in the used mineral oils?
Is the usual filteration enough?how about if I use several filter papers? accuracy will be affected?

Those steel particles are collected from a magnetic separator.
the problem is that they are in oil sample that has sludge in it?
Doese it relates to our filteration system if it good or bad?

I appreciate any reply regarding this matter.
Thank you
chemist

Can you give more detail on this application & product? If more information is given regarding wet sump or dry sump circulating system, filter element size (microns). Particle counting is essential in determining correct filter/element size & beta rating required.
Have you seen the same particles by taking a oil sample from a live zone? Any sample taken from a dead zone is a trend killer and potentially does not always reflect current machine conditions.
Wear debris analysis (Ferrography) should identify the metallic make-up of the particles.
If you do not have a lab available you may want to try patch testing. A flask & disc magnet are required. With a fresh oil sample taken from a live zone, mix 50/50 solution of oil & kerosene in a flask. Hold disc magnet tightly to bottom of flask and swirl/slosh contents for 3 minutes. Without removing the magnet from the bottom of the flask, drain the liquid leaving the particles in the bottom of the flask. Remove the magnet add about 50 ml of kerosene and transfer to patch. Using a microscope and wear particle atlas should identify the metallic make-up of the particles.
NORIA's web site has a wealth of information regarding these instrument free tests.

Jim

It is difficult to quantify the amount of wear has occured from an oil sample because you dont know where the rest of the metal is. What is of great value is viewing the particles generated under a microscope. The method of seperating the particles mentioned by Jim works well, you might also use a mechanics magnet inside a plastic sleeve and swish it around in the diluted oil sample to collect the particles then place it in a bottle of kerosene or lamp oil and remove the magnet from the sleeve and swish it around to release the particles into the clean fluid then filter the fluid with a patch for viewing with your microscope. You should also view the sludge for non metalic wear debris and to better see the other contaminants in order to get a better understanding of what is causing the contamination. As Jim said the NORIA web site has tons of info free for the asking.

Thank you very much for each reply I really gain great information .

Best regards
chemist

This application is aluminum rolling, where mineral oil ( emulsion type) is used.
This coolant subjected to have lub & hyd oil contamination with those steel particles.

Those contamination are removed by scum out process, and megnetic separator.
the megenetic separator sample content is oil and steel particles with the sludge.
That's why I'm interested in analysing this sample,steel particles, sludge, and oil .
and also to understand why oil is there with the collected wear particles in the megnetic separator.
I want to do something about our filteration system and change the separator speed if this will help.
This contamination affects our output.

If you have further information about that please send me a reply

Thank you very much
chemist

Chemist

You have mentioned Aluminium rolling oil and magnetic filteration. I don't understand what magnetic filteration has to do with aluminium.

Normally filter beds conveyors are used to removed aluminum fines from the rolling oil .

Could you please explain the process of filteration?

FRANKY,
Yes you are right but we have also steel fines which are contaminants that was difficult to be removed from the coolant,
Those steel fines have megentic property,so megnetic separator was installed to collect those particles which are sticked to the magnit installed in the coolant tank that has 200,000 Li capacity.

We use filter paper, and scum out process to clean our coolant.

Thank you very much
chemist

Chemist

So steel fines from the rolling mill find their way into the coolant.

You could provide trap filter with magnetic rods attached to filter off steel fines just before the coolant gets into the tank .

In the second stage you could provide a magnetic roller with wiper to wipe of the steel fines.

Please consult the filteration co for exact capacity of filteration system based on coolant flow per min.

Hope this helps.

While I am not really sure wheather you can a get a benefit from it or not- possibly the rolls are wearing out faster than the normal and may be you can look at the roll hardness and speeds, which may be effecting the coolant
speed and draft vs roll hardness will be another parameter which the roll suppliers can be consulted for and look for further improvements.
I will be obeliged to get an information if there are some sucesses/failures.
regards

I really appreciate each reply , you are teaching me alot.
Arupanjan, I'll send your reply to our engineer, because this is his job to do, to monitor filteration and coolant systems.

As a chemist I analyse this coolant and one of its problem is steel particles content, that's not easy for me to analyse becasue it is mixed with sludge and oil( I don't have ICP in my lab)

Well I'll disscuss every one idea and try each recommended procedure to find out a solution.

Thank you very much
chemist

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chemist,

I will be pleased to know if you have got a solution from any of these and how did you implement it?
regards
Arupanjan

Chemist

You can devise method for finding out the iron fines content by burning off a weigh sample of stirred sludge containing iron fines at around 500 'C in a crucible.

The weight difference would indicate the iron content as no metallic additives are added to the coolant.

Hi Rob here from www.rttech.com.au

We continually evaluate the debris filtered from lubricants as an ongoing monitoring of these applications,
Normally we would filter @ 11 µm and what passes through the 11µm is refiltered @ 3µm.
This separated the debris and allows us to check what sizes are being removed.

Another sample taken down stream past the filter from the "cleam " oil stream evalauated the same way allows the efficiency of the system to be checked.

The info gained is always of use and often surprising as there unexpected contaminates found that often can be removed by simple changes in the system.

If you wish post a small 20-30 ml sample to us to our post box in Australia and we will evaluate @ no charge for your interest and email back the images of what is in the sample,
Our address is on the web site,
to post use several layers of light plastic bags with the small sample in the inside bag, tie each bag off and post in cd box, we recieve samples from all over sent this in this manner.

Dear Chemist,

Take Rob from RRTECH up on his free offer. They do an excellent job and their analysis is very much cutting edge. You will definitely gain some valuable insight.

Greg (a satisfied RRTECH customer)

¿Do you know something about de contents of metals in used lubricants? I,m trying to search a relation about de metal content in used lubricants if engine break.
thanks

quote:

Originally posted by chemist:
Is there any std test procedure to determine the amount of steel particles found in the used mineral oils?
Is the usual filteration enough?how about if I use several filter papers? accuracy will be affected?

Those steel particles are collected from a magnetic separator.
the problem is that they are in oil sample that has sludge in it?
Doese it relates to our filteration system if it good or bad?

I appreciate any reply regarding this matter.
Thank you
chemist

I pulled this off another post ..

I had wondered whether the sludge? .. wasn't 'slime' .. from bacteria ..

<<quote>>
As the other replies stated water ingress must be prevented before the difficulty can be removed and prevented , we run a microimage oil lab, wear debris etc, rttech.com.au

The OHS area that concerns us with water in oil samples is infection from the contaminated oil samples if allowed to gain contact with open cuts or skin. Because our samples are from all types of plants the bacteria contamination can cause very agressive infections to technicians when handling samples,
Carefully check the sample by smell and if it smells like a dead horse watch out and if in a food factory let production know immediately to prevent any possible manufactured product contamination
<<quote>>