Don't let them bother you bmwtechguy. I think I know your rep, we were at the Schaeffer National Convention together. I find people who want to get ridiculous have either been duped by some scheister grease salesman or they just operate from a position of fear and ignorance because its comfortable for them. They know what they have and are too afraid to try some different. I see it everyday. The head mechanic won't try it for fear of losing his job. The administer won't try for fear of wasting his time. The owner won't try for fear of being taken advantage of. It takes a lot of courage to pay attention and follow through. Thanks for your input.