2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive

Due to the rather thin mix ratio I doubt it will do any harm. Problem is I doubt it would do much good at such a thin ratio either. I say thin because regular mix ratio's for 2 stroke oil is from 1:16 to 1:50. So at .25 oz. to the gallon that would be 1/10th of the 1:50 ratio, thin. Using a additive designed for 4 cycle engines would provide adequate lubricity at 1:400 ratio or 1.28 oz. to 4 gallons. You would be using just slightly more but getting better lubrication along with additional benefits like cleaning up the fuel system and helping with water contamination.

Since cars are routinely going 100,000 miles +++ without doing this I would have to ask what if any benefit is to be derived? On the "con" side, what is this doing to the life of the catalytic converter?

John from PA

Why add the 2C oil? Cars do go over 100,000 miles, but I drive them closer to 200,000 miles. Also even within the 100,000 miles you do hear about fuel pumps going out and injectors needing to be cleaned or replaced. So there appears to be a need. The question is whether the 2C is going to really address that need or not.

I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?

I tried this with a Acura Integra GSR. Went from 28mpg to 30mpg.

The problem in the longrun is the cat converters clogging up..

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bear:
I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.

MMO is great stuff! But... 2-Cycle is cheaper.

Anyone had any experience doing this with DIESEL fuel?

[Update 5/16/09: Seems like it works well in Diesel but some have commented that Power Service as an additive does a better job because you get a cetane boost amongst other things not just a lubrication boost.]

@TallPaul: You might be interested in this
http://www.thedieselstop.com/f...lowing-smoke-188966/

I'm switching over to MMO. Already running MMO in the Aerostar and Motorhome, the 4.9L F150 will continue to get 2C oil until I use up my remaining 10 qts, or maybe I can sell it off.

Cheapest I've seen is @ Walmart. 32Oz for $3.6

Before using MMo in the fuel I like to run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner followed by a Maintenance Dose of MMO. It is important to make sure the fuel system is clean.

A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.

Since using MMO I have noticed a 2 m.p.g. improvement, I feel the MMO is keeping the valves sealed and clean as well as keeping the fuel injectors free of carbon.

quote:

. . .
A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.
. . .

But remember, the TC-W3 has to be able to perform as a cleaner in the engines for which it's really meant. Wouldn't the cleaning ability conferred upon it (albeit meant for the 2C engine) also act as a cleaner in a 4C engine as well?

BTW, I've been experimenting with the PZ ester-based syn TC-W3 at about 400:1. I can't draw any hard conclusions yet, but I do seem to have had a slight mileage increase. Also, the frequent starts of the gas engine (I'm driving a Camry hybrid) are notably smoother, to the point that I miss some of them. I'm inclined to think there's something to it, as I often use the slight rumble of the engine pre-lubing itself as a cue to back off the gas pedal, in order to prolong an all-electric run.

As a previous poster noted, my car could almost certainly live a long, happy life minus any additives, but hey, it's a fun and educational experiment anyway.

I may just have to agree with epolk here, even though I use MMO in the fuel and I have not used the TC-W3, there are just too many positive posts about TC-W3 so I may have to give this stuff a try.

I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.

A few years ago when the 2 strokes were still very popular, we found that Petrol Pumps in India ( Gasoline/Diesel Service Stations) particularly in the rural India were supplying recycled or spurious lube oils and passing them off as 2 T oils. Needless to say this generated lot of pollution in the air apart from damaging bikes.

One single factor that differentiates 2 T oil with 4 stroke oil is its "dispercent package." In two stroke bikes the fuel is the carrier for the lubricity, hence good dispercency ensures the "Oil" is mixed speedily before it goes into combustion. I also recall we used to give demos to users by releasing a few drops of 2T Dispercent Oil and Engine Oil in measuring cylinders, containing Petrol. The engine oil would sink to the bottom, while the 2T oil had started mixing after dropping into the fuel.

If you are using this property to reach critical areas, its a great idea. More so, as currently available Euro IV type fuels, while they have low sulphur ( 10 ppm) have thier inherently available aromatic compounds stripped along with Sulphur ( by hydro treatment) thus, off late the injectors, pumps are prone to wear. In fact, I recall reading, that Bosch is now replacing a higher percentage of injectors/pumps than ever before.

Finally, I feel that by use of good fuel additives ( which also possess detergency ) you get desired results. If the additive also provides some "wear protection" (like Boron CLS Bond ) you would have met your objective and more.

Hussam

http://www.freel2.com/forum/to...8.html?highlight=oil

Good technical discussion on 2stroke oil in diesel, kudos to Yamaha Fan for her well defined replies.

quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.

That's been my observation as well. But I'm using the Walmart Supertech TC-W3.

What got me started: http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206

ive always use super tech tcw3 oil. but over the past couple of years have had a lot of issues with our auto parts using this walmart tcw3. anyone aware of similar analysis regarding quality?

quote:

Good advise, my dad has been adding MMO to gas since before I was born, and has lots of stories about MMO and its benefits. I have a Bitog buddy that swears by it as well. I think todays crappy gas needs all the help it can get.

AD

With Ethanol now being added to gasoline, it kind of dries things out from what I have heard, and of course they took the lead out of gasoline, I think that was kind of a lubricant, but that is just my thought, and its not a fact.

Lead additives also allowed lower octanes to be boosted up to 87. Which is why leaded 87 was cheaper than unleaded 87.

quote:

Originally posted by vsssarma:
In a 4 stroke engine, oil is stored separately, pumped into various parts as the engine starts and does its lubrication and cleaning work and returns to the tank. After every 5,000 KMs or so, the oil along with all the dirt is drained off. However, in a 2 stroke engine, generally the oil is mixed with petrol and directly taken to the combstion chamber. There is no re-circulation here and the used oil is thrown off into the atmosphere. The ability to clean the engines is known as 'detergency' and both the oils need it. However, 4 stroke oils also need 'dispersancy', the ability to hold the particles of combustion in suspension. For this purpose, special polar additives are added into 4 stroke oils, known as dispersants. They are essentially nitrogenous compounds.
A 4 Stroke oil is hence a more complete product than a 2 stroke oil. No useful purpose is served by adding a 2 stroke oil as a top-up to a 4 stroke oil. Well-formulated engine oils are tailor-made for each type of engine - 4 stroke or 2 stroke - and each type of fuel - petrol or diesel.

We're not talking about adding TCW-3 to the 4-stroke oil in the crankcase -- this is about using TCW-3 added in light doses to the FUEL. At worst, I see no damage being done by trying this strategy.