2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive

Having used both MMO and 2 cycle TC-W3 in the fuel, I lean towards the latter.

It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.

But, since it is not aimed at the 4 cycle market, of course they don't reccommend it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And they will not do so. Probably because some bone head will either add a quart or more to his crankcase, or add that or more to his fuel. And seek legal action when he wrecks his ride.

Just like that bone head who ran the wrong oil in his turbo diesel way over the oci, and expected Ford to cover his screw up.

quote:

It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.

But, since it is not aimed at the 4 cycle market, of course they don't reccommend it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And they will not do so. Probably because some bone head will either add a quart or more to his crankcase, or add that or more to his fuel. And seek legal action when he wrecks his ride.

Just like that bone head who ran the wrong oil in his turbo diesel way over the oci, and expected Ford to cover his screw up.

Good points. I think the % of people using it as a UCL is so small the companies making the stuff see little to no profit margin in it, so why bother marketing it. And yea the bone head who fouls his plugs because he used to much, will quickly cry foul. It's car buffs that think out of the box and experiment, and find things like TCW3 work well.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?

You're on the right track. TCW3 is the right one to use. It's ashless, thus catconv friendly.

It is a constant use thing though. But all that will happen if you stop is that your engine will go back to the way it was.

The ratio is right. Less will do no good. More, well at worst, you "might" foul a plug. Just drive awhile and top the tank off to restore the mixture..

I did look for the PZ brand. It's synth, and of course costs more,but couldn't find it. But all the reading I've done tells me that the Walmart Supertech works just as well. And it's much cheaper.

Also read that you should shake up the container before you use it as it kills the smell.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
Having used both MMO and 2 cycle TC-W3 in the fuel, I lean towards the latter.

It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.


Just remember,the supertech has a good deal of solvents in the formula, and the 1 oz/5 gallons of gasoline was not based on the rather thin and dilute super tech stuff.


Someone will have to give some input on how much more to use in the case of ST....I would think 1.2 oz/5 gallons.


From Tim V.
[QUOTE] No matter what other people say. Do not use 2 cycle engine oil in a
4 cycle motor. You will cause major damage to your engine.

Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!

I go two steps further .......Acetone,Stabil(ethanal fix),and the fuel lube. WORKS BETTER THAN EVEN A PROFFESSONAL DEALER FUEL SYSTEM CLEAN,OR EVEN DOUBLE DOSE TECHCRON.........PEROID! This is done with every fuel up and it actually pays for itself...did the math!

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!

You'll have to ask Shell Oil Company. That was their answer, not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!

You'll have to ask Shell Oil Company. That was their answer, not mine.

I have a better Idea Tim,let's have shell ask us... what the Real world data is,becuase we know better than they,becuase we live it!

For example,the drug companies don't have all the facts until people report back that a drug is good or bad to their doctors based on actual use......making us the last,and final 'study' of a new drug....NICE,ISN'T IT!

Have you noticed all the lawsuits with drugs being pulled off the market lately......even though they passed all the 'studies',and various hurdles to get in the market place as the final proof for my argument.

This reality also works with everything else in the market place including lubricants,hence all the constant change,recalls,etc.


I am sure Shell told you what they did only for legal reasons, not scientific reasons. After all,the data makes the only real argument!

In sum,adding 1 oz to 5 gallons of ashless two stroke oil in ones tank,will only do good,especially if you cycle MMO for a duration to vary and enhance the effect for lubricity and cleanliness, better still with top tier fuel.

As far as I can see, Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not TC-W3 certified, thus not suitable for cars that have cats.

Why would I pay $10.60, plus shipping, etc, for a 12oz bottle of that PI, when I can pay @$12 for the Supertech TC-W3?. For 128ozs.....

The PI is not cost effective. The ROI is horrible.

I can treat 42.6 tanks of gas on the ST. 3oz per tank. 16,800 miles on a gallon of ST.

The equivilent PI, since you use it every 4K miles, is a bit more than $42.40. Not counting shipping.

So I can either pay @$12 every 16-17K miles, or more than $40.

I'm not sure why you seem to want to go off subject and discuss AMSOIL, but since you want to:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
As far as I can see, Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not TC-W3 certified, thus not suitable for cars that have cats.

No 2 cycle oil manufacturer says any 2 cycle oil is suitable for cars that have cats.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:Why would I pay $10.60, plus shipping, etc, for a 12oz bottle of that PI, when I can pay @$12 for the Supertech TC-W3?. For 128ozs.....

Beats me. I only pay $7.59 and no shipping for a 12 oz PI that is formulated for and proven in gasoline engines to:
• Improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%
• Reduced emissions
— hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%
— carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26%
— nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%
• Restored power and performance
• Reduced need for costly higher octane fuel
• Reduced noise from carbon rap and pre-ignition
• Better drivability
• Smoother operation

Supertech TC-W3 isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:The PI is not cost effective. The ROI is horrible.

Actually, it is very cost effective. It is recommended once every 4,000 miles. 4,000 miles/20mpgX$3/gallon = $600. 2.3% increase in mpg = $13.80 saved in gasoline costs. My cost for PI $7.59. My savings is $6.21. My ROI is 83%.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:I can treat 42.6 tanks of gas on the ST. 3oz per tank. 16,800 miles on a gallon of ST.

The equivilent PI, since you use it every 4K miles, is a bit more than $42.40. Not counting shipping.

So I can either pay @$12 every 16-17K miles, or more than $40.

I pay only $30.36 per 16K miles for PI. And I save $55.2 in gas. And I know it works. ADFD1 and others found they got worse mileage, less performance with the TC-W3 that the 2 cycle oil companies do not recommend. Seems pretty clear to me.

Once again another Amsoil ad. Trajan TCW3 works. If you want a product better than the Amsoil PI get the Red Line product. It is also a UCL and can be used all the time @ 1.5 ounces/10 gallons of gas, if you desire a good cleaner and UCL. A great product from a great company. And their reps won't annoy you or anyone else by constantly pushing on these sites!

BTW Kirk's advise was good too! An example of thinking out of the box.

Got to love that Amsoil math, wow!

Seasons Greetings!
AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1: If you want a product better than the Amsoil PI get the Red Line product.
AD

Any data to prove it?

How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better? Not the B_S Amsoil sales hype, real data.

Once again you took a topic about TCW3 as a fuel system additive [which by the way many people are having great success with it] and turned it into an Amsoil pitch. Don't you realize a lot of guys are getting tired of the pitch? Read between the lines, it might help with your sales!

AD

Here's some data Tim, the same kind of data as yours, from a website:

And the RL product is a UCL too, a synthetic UCL. PI is not a UCL.

http://www.redlineoil.com/cont...-1%20Tech%20Info.pdf

RL has a website and tech data too.

AD

The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.

Amsoil doesn't make a TC-W3 oil, so I fail to see why Tim says that he wants to talk TC-W3.

Since this thread has fallen into another Amsoil uber alles pitch, I'm out. Like Zmax, use it don't use it, I don't care.

But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better?
AD

YOU stated the Redline product is better than the AMSOIL PI. YOU provide the proof. The AMSOIL is one treatment every 4,000 miles. Redline recommends you add their cleaner in every tank of gas. Why bother with that?

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.

How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.

Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better?
AD

YOU stated the Redline product is better than the AMSOIL PI. YOU provide the proof. The AMSOIL is one treatment every 4,000 miles. Redline recommends you add their cleaner in every tank of gas. Why bother with that?

I think what AD is saying is that he likes the Redline product better than the Amsoil PI, I agree with him since I have used both products, both AD and I do not have to provide any proof, our observations tell us to give our money to Redline as opposed to lining Tim Vipond's pockets.

I think Redline is recommending a maintenance dose of there product each time you fill up, remember Amsoil PI does not have upper cylinder lubricating properties like the Redline Fuel System Cleaner.

I personally use the Redline product once a year and then use MMO at each fillup for the Upper Cylinder Lubrication.

Tim, your sales pitch is getting old and annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.

How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.

Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.

Give it up Tim, IMO it isn't what's cheaper, its what's better. Where's your proof that PI is better? Waiting, tick tock, tick tock!

Amsoil is champ of extended drain intervals, we aren't discussing that, and its getting old! Who cares? You remind us every chance you get! Hey Tim ask the Toyota owner who blew his engine following the Amsoil interval just what happens. I bet he'll follow the OM for now on! Then he took a junkyard engine for a replacement, he must have been the perfect customer. They got lucky there, trust me if were my ride they'd be swinging a new motor. I'm sure we'll hear more about blown Toyota engines and Amsoil, better hope everyone got those TSBs. I haven't seen or heard of any blown engines using TCW3, which BTW was the topic at hand.

Keep on pushin! You are turning people off in a big way! Looks like Trajan, Bear, and me to mention a few, I'm sure there are more.

FYI Bear there is no need to use the RL product all the time, you can if you want. It will keep your fuel system clean, and has the added benefit of a synthetic UCL. PI doesn't. BTW your method is a great way to maintain a fuel system, stick with it man!

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.

How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.

Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:Give it up Tim, IMO it isn't what's cheaper, its what's better. Where's your proof that PI is better? Waiting, tick tock, tick tock!

I never said AMSOIL was better. YOU said Redline is better. YOU made the statement, YOU show the proof. Still waiting....

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:Amsoil is champ of extended drain intervals, we aren't discussing that, and its getting old! Who cares? You remind us every chance you get!

Trajan cared. He asked. I answered.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1: Hey Tim ask the Toyota owner who blew his engine following the Amsoil interval just what happens. I bet he'll follow the OM for now on! Then he took a junkyard engine for a replacement, he must have been the perfect customer. They got lucky there, trust me if were my ride they'd be swinging a new motor. I'm sure we'll hear more about blown Toyota engines and Amsoil, better hope everyone got those TSBs. I haven't seen or heard of any blown engines using TCW3, which BTW was the topic at hand.

IIRC, it was the filter that may have failed, not the oil. That guy replaced his engine before he even spoke to AMSOIL. He filed a warranty claim and AMSOIL reimbursed him. He was quite satisfied with that.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:Keep on pushin! You are turning people off in a big way! Looks like Trajan, Bear, and me to mention a few, I'm sure there are more.

AD

How can answering questions with facts and data turn anyone off? Just because I've challenged some statements, asked for data and provided facts? I thought that was what this forum is about.

Like Trajan says in his signature "Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data."

BTW, AMSOIL's and my sales are booming. I have a few new customers from here. Thank you for your concern.

And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.

Amsoil is to TC-W3 what a pimple is to a hooker's ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.

AMSOIL is made and marketed in the USA. Why would a European auto maker that manufactures, distributes and services world wide use an oil that is mainly only available in the US and Canada?

And why do you continually go off topic?