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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
Bear - Terry and I have had our public differences. So what? I call them as I see them. NO ONE is perfect. I think I was right about RLI. I raised legitimate questions and one thread does not unmake a friendship.

What is your TRUE agenda? You accuse me of being sneaky and stuff. I rarely send PM's, mainly just respond. I'm right in the open. I guess that's a bad thing now.



Profile for Pablo
Member #: 502
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Total Posts: 38988
Registered on: 10/28/02 08:00 PM

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About Me
Birthday: July 24
Homepage: http://oilslubesfilters.com
Occupation: Fully


Pablo, we know your agenda is to cause doubt with any product that is in competition with your Amsoil. It's funny, I did not see Terry mention Gary Allan's name, it seems in Terry's eyes that Gary stayed neutral, but you just have to stir the pot, don't you.

I agree that you are right about the RLI, but it would have been nice if you let other members hammer Terry's product that you accused him of pushing, I guess selling Amsoil is more important than your friendship with Terry.

My agenda is to show everyone the truth as to why you are here, and that is to push Amsoil Products.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Amusing little "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" exercise, but are you guys aware that you're talking about passenger car engine filtration? It's not exactly a GE Frame 7FA. This is like the letters to Dear Abby where I find myself asking "Is that really the biggest problem you have? Can we trade lives?"

It's such a low severity application that really any filter you pull off of the shelf with the right gasket diameter & thread size will serve. There are guys who go to Home Depot & buy $200 worm-drive saws when all they are going to do is cut a coupla-three 2x4s. Is that saw "better" than a $50 Black & Decker? You can make that argument based on specs, but in this case paying 4x the price does not provide 4x the value.

I call it "Tim Allen Syndrome". You're all assuming that the highest level of overkill is called for in every application. A fool & his money are soon parted. The smart money tries to find the sweet spot.



Lamont...I do believe that it has been proven particulates in the range of 5-20 microns causes a good deal of the wear in engines,gearboxes,and transmissions.

Using a very good filter is always a good bet. There have been issues in the past with low quality filters causing excessive wear or even catastrophic failure in various applications.

Issue like excessive pressure drop across the media,leaky bypass valves/anti drain back valves,excessive bypass mode,torn media,and filters that have also fragmented into the engine are many of the reasons that just any filer will not always protect the engine.

Remember,filter technology is evolving and improving just like the lubes evolve and improve for good reason. It's technically proven to be necessary to keep up with high tech engine designs!

In fact....at any given time there will be numerous service bulletins listed because of various filter issues. Just ask lexus/toyota, or even VW for starters.

Much of this has to do with some of the sludge issue at hand I discussed in another thread in addition to direct filter issues involving quality issues.

It would be counterproductive to install a low quality filter in tandem with high quality oil on a modern day high tech engine.

I think it may be a stretch to use the term "low severity application" on an engine that costs many thousand of dollars........not to mention paying 15 bucks for a great filter vs 4.99 for a cheap filter roughly every 3-8000 miles.......is definitely well worth the very insignificant cost difference.

The real money issue we all have is with the fuel tank and the cost of fuel!!!! In this case...big oil is not the fool!!
Last edited by captainkirk
Capt - My background is primarily industrial, where the replacement of a single bearing can cost more than an entire automobile. So yeah, I will go to my grave thinking all street-legal automotive applications are a little on the wussy side. It's all relative - have you ever seen a lime kiln?

I imagine those little particles can induce wear, assuming they are hard enough. I just don't think they will induce enough to cause the engine to wear out significantly sooner than the rest of the car.

Sludge is a different issue - some engines are more prone to it that others. In those cases, extending the oil change interval is NEVER your friend. But sludge can also extrude through a filter. Short of a BCA or ES 'filter' (and you won't see either of those on a car anytime soon) I'm not sure any filter will help sludge. Yes, if you cut open a filter from an engine with a sludge issue, there will be slduge in it. Don't be fooled, it's only resting there. Change it hot & often if you own one of those.
I pretty much share Lamont's take. I really don't think filtration (per se~) will alter the life span of an engine to any degree of significance. The life span of an engine is a combination of its design and how it's operated and maintained. If you're swapping out the sump often enough, filtration becomes less of an issue. You're resetting the counter to zero. If you're going longer, then the holding capacity of the filter will come into play and there you may manage some better result (that has no assurance of having any impact of significance) with a finer filter.

The concept of the EaO is to facilitate a one year filter use over a very broad mileage variance. It's that simple. The rest, for just about any filter, is fluff in marketing.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
I pretty much share Lamont's take. I really don't think filtration (per se~) will alter the life span of an engine to any degree of significance. The life span of an engine is a combination of its design and how it's operated and maintained. If you're swapping out the sump often enough, filtration becomes less of an issue. You're resetting the counter to zero. If you're going longer, then the holding capacity of the filter will come into play and there you may manage some better result (that has no assurance of having any impact of significance) with a finer filter.

The concept of the EaO is to facilitate a one year filter use over a very broad mileage variance. It's that simple. The rest, for just about any filter, is fluff in marketing.


What about bypass filters? Smile

www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/ofa/FAMS/evaloilfilters.pdf

Those guys say it makes a difference. Also the guys who say that 0/5-10micron particles do the most damage, blah blah blah, also claim that it makes a difference.


US Navy. SupplyCorps applicant.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
I pretty much share Lamont's take. I really don't think filtration (per se~) will alter the life span of an engine to any degree of significance. The life span of an engine is a combination of its design and how it's operated and maintained. If you're swapping out the sump often enough, filtration becomes less of an issue. You're resetting the counter to zero. If you're going longer, then the holding capacity of the filter will come into play and there you may manage some better result (that has no assurance of having any impact of significance) with a finer filter.

The concept of the EaO is to facilitate a one year filter use over a very broad mileage variance. It's that simple. The rest, for just about any filter, is fluff in marketing.


I guess if you share Lamont's take then maybe we all should be using a cheap oil filter, I am willing to bet that you do not even use the EaO Oil Filter, its kind of strange since you do sell Amsoil products that in reality you do not even use most of there products, hyping or defending a product you rarely use is kind of pathetic.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
I pretty much share Lamont's take. I really don't think filtration (per se~) will alter the life span of an engine to any degree of significance. The life span of an engine is a combination of its design and how it's operated and maintained. If you're swapping out the sump often enough, filtration becomes less of an issue. You're resetting the counter to zero. If you're going longer, then the holding capacity of the filter will come into play and there you may manage some better result (that has no assurance of having any impact of significance) with a finer filter.

The concept of the EaO is to facilitate a one year filter use over a very broad mileage variance. It's that simple. The rest, for just about any filter, is fluff in marketing.


I guess if you share Lamont's take then maybe we all should be using a cheap oil filter, I am willing to bet that you do not even use the EaO Oil Filter, its kind of strange since you do sell Amsoil products that in reality you do not even use most of there products, hyping or defending a product you rarely use is kind of pathetic.
I would tend to agree that the oil filter has a minimal effect on engine life.The air filter and intake seal is the most important filter. Though for extending oil change intervals a high end filter may start to have some advantage.
One problem I just encountered with a Pure One filter: there is no bypass (relief) valve in the dome end of a filter that specifies one. I ordered 6 filters from Advance Auto to get the free shipping (along with other filters), and happened to look inside one of them, and there is no bypass in the dome end. The other 5 have them, this item has the same part number on the box and on the sticker on the can. Obviously a manufacturing mistake, but beware.

To add insult to injury, Advance wants me to pay shipping both ways. Getting a refund is not an option, either. Their shipping is $8.66 for a $9.99 filter which would be discounted to $7.99 with their 20% off promo. PLUS shipping to get it there....
I emailed Purolator concerning this issue, and they wanted to see the filter. They sent me a pre-paid next-day air shipping kit. When they received it, they disassembled it and determined the incorrect end cap was installed, one without a relief valve. I was assured this was a fluke, that their quality control is usually better than this, and all stock will be inspected.

For my efforts, I received a complimentary case of filters.
quote:
Originally posted by Herb:
There is a difference between Nominal and Absolute. The Ea will filter better. All you have to do is do the research.


The trouble is not the difference, it is the usage of the words.

And if you have data, don't make me look for it. Post it, please.

(FWIW I think the STLE has a definition, I'll look it up as soon as I can)

definition is in some class material, I did find this

http://www.lenntech.com/librar...-nominal-filters.htm

And a Machinery Lubrication Article that make the excellent points that there is no fixed definition even for absolute or a fixed and agreed measurement method.

So, for me, I'll stick with multipass testing.
Last edited by robertc
Donaldson nanofiber syn media is what is used in the Ea oil filter. It's a Donaldson patent, with a lot of testing done. IMO a company like Amsoil that is coming up on 40 years in business, I believe knows what they are doing. I don't see any other oil filter that has right on the box that states Guaranteed for 25,000 miles just as their oils. If it was not true it would not be on there. If your against such a product don't use it. But when us Dealers "try" to show a product better than one is using, we mostly get slammed for pushing something. Carry on !
quote:
Originally posted by Herb:
Donaldson nanofiber syn media is what is used in the Ea oil filter. It's a Donaldson patent, with a lot of testing done. IMO a company like Amsoil that is coming up on 40 years in business, I believe knows what they are doing. I don't see any other oil filter that has right on the box that states Guaranteed for 25,000 miles just as their oils. If it was not true it would not be on there. If your against such a product don't use it. But when us Dealers "try" to show a product better than one is using, we mostly get slammed for pushing something. Carry on !


Yes, we slam for pushing a product. Because it gets pushed with no DATA!!!!

I had to find a now deceased guys report on a motorcycle forum to find any trustworthy data on amsoil filters (he did multipass testing and provided all of the data). I know people in his previous company and actually tried to find him before I discovered that he had died.

DATA rules. And remember, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So, until then...

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