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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
IMO the Amsoil filter is trapping less dirt up until its half life, possibly letting twice the smaller particles through early on. Then when it starts to load up it starts to filter more efficiently, but it took half its life to get there. You're only talking about changing the Pure One filter twice in 25,000 miles, and the cost of the two filters is still less than one Amsoil filter.

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I never said the amsoil filter was letting more dirt through up until half life. I said to imagine just how much better at the half life. If I'm not mistaken,..filter efficiency is based on half life or something along those lines.

It has been proven industry wide that changing any filter, oil,fuel,air,etc. too often too soon is actually a detriment to the efficiency of the filter. It causes more wear,not less.

Even when new,...the difference between the amsoil and the P1 related to initial particle size is basically splitting hairs....With the exception being that the P1 is more restrictive even when new.

The amsoil filter gets better long before it's half life,and is at a very high standard when new,it's been proven. Someone on bitog ran a test to back that as I recall.

If you are that concerned/paranoid about particulates....then I would recommend you put your fears to rest and install a bypass filtration system. It will filter done to One micron or better in some cases.

By installing a good synthetic oil and using a good depth filter.....just how long do you think your engine will last. You will probably never wear it out. The car will fall apart around the engine. How many cars are junked with still running engines?

The depth filter makes the most practical and economic sense and does an amazing job at keeping the oil very clean with extended OCI..... including from the start of the oil change.
I think we might agree here. With all the time filters spend in Bi-pass engines last a very long time, for the guy that keeps a car to 200,000 miles any filter will do. Odds are the car will shake itself apart and rot before the engine fails.

You say & I agree.

Quote:If you are that concerned/paranoid about particulates....then I would recommend you put your fears to rest and install a bypass filtration system. It will filter done to One micron or better in some cases.

By installing a good synthetic oil and using a good depth filter.....just how long do you think your engine will last. You will probably never wear it out. The car will fall apart around the engine. How many cars are junked with still running engines?

____________________________________

Tim there was a thread running on Bitog about a poor guy running an Amsoil filter in a Toyota engine that failed. % wise the one P1 failure is tiny for all the Purolator filters in use. We should be seeing junkyards teaming with destroyed engines from P1 filters, not so.
quote:

Tim there was a thread running on Bitog about a poor guy running an Amsoil filter in a Toyota engine that failed. % wise the one P1 failure is tiny for all the Purolator filters in use. We should be seeing junkyards teaming with destroyed engines from P1 filters, not so.
Do you have a link?

The one Pablo posted a link to was a 2004 Honda Element. These are known to be very easy on oil filters, and only recommend filter changes every other oil change. I'm not sure there is a vehicle made that is easier on oil filters.

There have only been a few P1 filters opened at Bitog, and this one of those failed at or before 5,000 miles, so we don't know the failure is tiny. In fact, based on those opened, it seems quite high. He didn't know it failed until he opened it. Since it is a highly restrictive filter with no media support, I'm not too surprised of the failure. And not sure a torn filter media would destroy an engine as his was still running, but likely has increased wear. I don't see how this filter is better than the EaO in design, construction, performance or longevity.
Last edited by timvipond
Hello Tim,

Let me first say everything I read on the WWW is taken under advisement. I like Amsoil, but they do spend a lot of money promoting their product, and a lot of their claims I also take under advisement, with an open mind.

Here is the Amsoil / Toyota thread. As you can see people attacked and defended Amsoil, casting some doubt.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1819180#Post1819180



This thread is interesting showing Fram as one of the best filters for Flow. We know the deal with Fram. Truth is after reading through most of the the thread it seemed, at least to me that they never perfected the test. But still a lot of time and effort went into it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=314996&page=1

Cheers!

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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Hello Tim,

Let me first say everything I read on the WWW is taken under advisement. I like Amsoil, but they do spend a lot of money promoting their product, and a lot of their claims I also take under advisement, with an open mind.

Here is the Amsoil / Toyota thread. As you can see people attacked and defended Amsoil, casting some doubt.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1819180#Post1819180

Thanks for the link.

Inside that link was another to the original poster's remarks from another website. Seems like he only contacted the dealer that sold him the filter, and not AMSOIL. Had he contacted AMSOIL, they would have had him submit a claim, and ship the filter and oil to AMSOIL for evaluation. The only "evidence" that the filter clogged and caused the problem was a remark from the Toyota dealership, who I doubt did a thorough investigation of the actual cause. If AMSOIL thought the filter could have caused the problem, they would have immediately paid for parts and repairs. If later, AMSOIL can prove the filter did not cause the problem, they would seek reimbursement from Toyota.

Also, a dealership can not deny warranty claims. Only the manufacturer can do that. And the reason has to be stated in writing, which I did not find.
Last edited by timvipond
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
Yes filters do go into by-pass - another argument against overly viscous oils. Some folks on BITOG years back thought of OF's as failed parts sieves. Only there to catch junk - after the failure. There is some logic in this camp.

As for P1 - people seem to defend this OF as strongly as some other top brands. This one looks marginal:

P1 pics


There goes Pablo the Amsoil salesman again showing us a Pure One Pic and saying its marginal. How do you arrive at this conclusion that the pics are marginal, are you an Oil Filter Expert.

What exactly is your AGENDA here on Noria, and since you are an Amsoil Salesman I do not think we can buy anything you are saying.

If someone posted a pic of an Amsoil EaO Oil Filter you would probably say it looks GREAT.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.


Wow Amsoil must have some legal department and a lot of faith to pay out then seek reimbursement. It doesn't add up. I'm sure many a car has sat waiting for a decision if the repair cost was major. No one pays out w/o investigation and trying to defend their product.

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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.


Wow Amsoil must have some legal department and a lot of faith to pay out then seek reimbursement.
They do.
quote:
It doesn't add up.
Sure it does. Great service + great products + great reputation = great sales. AMSOIL set sales records last year while the motor oil industry suffered a 20% decrease.
quote:
I'm sure many a car has sat waiting for a decision if the repair cost was major. No one pays out w/o investigation and trying to defend their product.
If you are sure, you must have proof. Please provide.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
Yes filters do go into by-pass - another argument against overly viscous oils. Some folks on BITOG years back thought of OF's as failed parts sieves. Only there to catch junk - after the failure. There is some logic in this camp.

As for P1 - people seem to defend this OF as strongly as some other top brands. This one looks marginal:

P1 pics


There goes Pablo the Amsoil salesman again showing us a Pure One Pic and saying its marginal. How do you arrive at this conclusion that the pics are marginal, are you an Oil Filter Expert.

What exactly is your AGENDA here on Noria, and since you are an Amsoil Salesman I do not think we can buy anything you are saying.

If someone posted a pic of an Amsoil EaO Oil Filter you would probably say it looks GREAT.


My agenda = the truth
Your agenda = attacking me with almost every one of your posts, anyone with 1/2 brain can see that.

Did you even look closely at the pictures?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.


Wow Amsoil must have some legal department and a lot of faith to pay out then seek reimbursement.
They do.
quote:
It doesn't add up.
Sure it does. Great service + great products + great reputation = great sales. AMSOIL set sales records last year while the motor oil industry suffered a 20% decrease.
quote:
I'm sure many a car has sat waiting for a decision if the repair cost was major. No one pays out w/o investigation and trying to defend their product.
If you are sure, you must have proof. Please provide.


How about you prove it? I mean the part where they first pay out then go after the party at fault.

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quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
Yes filters do go into by-pass - another argument against overly viscous oils. Some folks on BITOG years back thought of OF's as failed parts sieves. Only there to catch junk - after the failure. There is some logic in this camp.

As for P1 - people seem to defend this OF as strongly as some other top brands. This one looks marginal:

P1 pics


There goes Pablo the Amsoil salesman again showing us a Pure One Pic and saying its marginal. How do you arrive at this conclusion that the pics are marginal, are you an Oil Filter Expert.

What exactly is your AGENDA here on Noria, and since you are an Amsoil Salesman I do not think we can buy anything you are saying.

If someone posted a pic of an Amsoil EaO Oil Filter you would probably say it looks GREAT.


My agenda = the truth
Your agenda = attacking me with almost every one of your posts, anyone with 1/2 brain can see that.

Did you even look closely at the pictures?


Pablo, you are even loosing credibility on BITOG.

My agenda = Exposing Pablo
Your Agenda= Pushing Amsoil Products.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.


Wow Amsoil must have some legal department and a lot of faith to pay out then seek reimbursement.
They do.
quote:
It doesn't add up.
Sure it does. Great service + great products + great reputation = great sales. AMSOIL set sales records last year while the motor oil industry suffered a 20% decrease.
quote:
I'm sure many a car has sat waiting for a decision if the repair cost was major. No one pays out w/o investigation and trying to defend their product.
If you are sure, you must have proof. Please provide.


How about you prove it? I mean the part where they first pay out then go after the party at fault. What happens with a hung jury? Who eats it?

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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Like I said internet stories are always taken under advisement. I'm not sure how Amsoil would have handled it, my gut tells me it would have been a volleyball game, bouncing blame back and forth, which is typical in the automotive business. But then again I have no experience with Amsoil or Toyota so it is just gut feeling.
I think you shouldn't listen to your gut in this case. Listen to the facts and history. AMSOIL has handled several claims in 38 years and it is done as I described. No bouncing back and forth. No long drawn out battles. Handled very quickly. When in doubt, AMSOIL pays and later seeks reimbursement when they can prove their products did not fail.

PureONES are good filters. I just don't believe they are better than the EaOs.


Wow Amsoil must have some legal department and a lot of faith to pay out then seek reimbursement.
They do.
quote:
It doesn't add up.
Sure it does. Great service + great products + great reputation = great sales. AMSOIL set sales records last year while the motor oil industry suffered a 20% decrease.
quote:
I'm sure many a car has sat waiting for a decision if the repair cost was major. No one pays out w/o investigation and trying to defend their product.
If you are sure, you must have proof. Please provide.


How about you prove it? I mean the part where they first pay out then go after the party at fault. What happens with a hung jury? Who eats it?

AD
Certainly. From a "Lubes n Greases" article: http://www.performanceoiltechn...allarticle_aug05.pdf

"It was later deter-
mined that both paid claims were ulti-
mately the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

I've also read on a forum where a customer had a claim. It was handled quickly and paid for parts/labor, towing and rental car.

If AMSOIL can not determine their products were conclusively not at fault, they have paid anyway. Even if it fell into "grey areas".
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

My agenda = Exposing Pablo
Your Agenda= Pushing Amsoil Products.


Strange.

You attack. You never provide proof or truth or data or facts. Exposing what? What am I hiding?

And what am I pushing here? I'm not selling. I jumped into the thread because it was crazy ridiculous on both sides.

Why do you have such a big boner for me?
Why do you go personal?
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

My agenda = Exposing Pablo
Your Agenda= Pushing Amsoil Products.


Strange.

You attack. You never provide proof or truth or data or facts. Exposing what? What am I hiding?

And what am I pushing here? I'm not selling. I jumped into the thread because it was crazy ridiculous on both sides.

Why do you have such a big boner for me?
Why do you go personal?



Pablo, you are an Amsoil salesman so you are the one that needs to show us the proof why the Amsoil EaO Oil Filters are superior to the Pure Ones.

Myself and the other members here do not have to show you anything, we are potential customers and can decide to go down to Wal-Mart and buy an oil filter.

If you want to continue your rant and to take cheap shots at the Pure One Oil Filter, at least have the decency to call your boss at Amsoil and have him run some tests on your oil filter versus the Pure One just like you guys do the 4-Ball Wear Test with Amsoil Motor Oil versus other motor oil's. I am not going to buy some sales pitch from an Amsoil salesman, you want us to buy your Oil Filter, then show us some tests, you want our money, then you show us the proof.
I recall reading an Amsoil rep saying if you run enough tests you get the results you are looking for. I'm sure Amsoil ran tests to get results they were looking for with their filters, as well as their oil, as other co's do.

I think they make some good products, but slowly I'm losing respect for them. Too many reps pushing product is not good IMO for any company.

Just forwarded from a friend some data re: Pure One filters:


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...16457&Number=1619451


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Last edited by adfd1
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