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I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

Dave
Last edited {1}
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quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

Dave


Capt. Kirk, Prove to me about Sludge again......

This thing has only had dino (mineral oil) on the average of every 100 hours.

Dave
Last edited by deltonadave
I started driving in 1960, well 1958 if you count the motor scooter. I used Pennzoil back then, you know the kind people used to say caused sludge. Any way I used either Pennzoil or castrol GTX for the next 40 years with absolutly no sludge what so ever. But I have always maintained my cars and trucks really well. I have used synthetic for the past 10 years.

Now I have always used synthetic in my 1995 Cub cadet. It has a Kohler engines and runs as good as it ever has.

Just my experience
Last edited by snakedoctor
Looks new, just because the engine is well designed and I changed the oil whenever, usually about 100 hours. Nothing special, just TLC.

Just goes to show, not so much the oil, but the engine design also keeps thing clean. B&S has always built a tough little motor, especially for the money. If I had big $$$, I would go with Kohler or Kawasaki.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by snakedoctor:
I started driving in 1960, well 1958 if you count the motor scooter. I used Pennzoil back then, you know the kind people used to say caused sludge. Any way I used either Pennzoil or castrol GTX for the next 40 years with absolutly no sludge what so ever. But I have always maintained my cars and trucks really well. I have used synthetic for the past 10 years.

Now I have always used synthetic in my 1995 Cub cadet. It has a Kohler engines and runs as good as it ever has.

Just my experience


Snake,
This POS engine has gone over 200 hours (one season) w/o a change. I have even been cheap and changed the oil, but not the filter. The current fill of Delvac 1300 is holding up really good. I can prolly go 200+ hours on it. Trick is keeping the fins clean. The mower will fall apart, before the engine does. The floorboards are rusting pretty badly.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

Dave


Deltona Dave, great pics, and I am sure you follow the manufactures OCI on this mower.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

Dave


Deltona Dave, great pics, and I am sure you follow the manufactures OCI on this mower.


Big Bear:
I have been changing every 75-100 hours. Briggs recommends 50 hours. The last 2 seasons I started using HDEO, Rotella or Delvac 1300. Seems to run just fine on those.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

Dave


Capt. Kirk, Prove to me about Sludge again......

This thing has only had dino (mineral oil) on the average of every 100 hours.

Dave


Just thought I should add that small engines don't have high tech sophisticated emission systems like cars do... further stressing the oil. Car engines are also plagued with short trips,incomplete warm ups,condensation and so forth that all contribute to oil oxidation. Small engines will run hot and burn off VOC'S ,condenstation,and fuel intrusion. There exists no possible coolant intrusion into the oil in those small air cooled engines to boot.

The small air cooled engines do run the oil to higher temperatures compared to water cooled engines which can pose another set of possible issues in some cases!!


However,this is daves real story,


I have an 8 year old Craftsman (AYP) heavy duty lawn tractor that is developing some sludge/varnish. Last season, it was filled with Rotella-T 15W-40 HDEO. Well, it don't like thick oil. It burned it at about 8 oz. per week (10-12 hours). Now that I am a BITOG'er, I want to clean her up and thought about this method:


So,the engine DID AT ON TIME.......HAVE SLUDGE....MAKING THE STORY A LIE

THE PROOF WITH A LINK

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1829761


KIRK
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Dave



Capt. Kirk, Prove to me about Sludge again......


Dave,I thought you might like these links to help explain what is going on with some engines regarding your question about sludge and how it forms and why.

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm


http://www.examiner.com/x-4824...s-the-best-motor-oil

http://www.ehow.com/how_451611...duce-oil-sludge.html


http://74.125.93.132/search?q=...&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Nice how they list sludge problem engines.
And say: Remember—any car can suffer an oil sludge problem, and some manufacturers more than others due to various design differences

Good engine design, reasonable OCI, quality oil.


All of today's engines are very good/high tech engine design along with high tech emission designs so we can all breath easy.

More of the same can be said of future engine/emission designs which will challenge the crankcase oils even more so,but help keep the air clean,and get better economy!!

The issue is not defective engine design...just the opposite......very high tech state of the art designs meeting or exceeding all of the emission standards/economy for that model year which imposes a good deal of stress to the engine lube..oxidizing it that much faster as supported by the above links.

Engine design is not going to devolve by any stretch.......it will continue to evolve getting more highe tech with each passing year allowing for even lower emissions,more power,and better fuel economy.

The engine lubes will have to evolve just to keep pace or OCI's will be lower and lower like they have been as of late.

Cadillac/cts has just lowered their oci's on those models,and has been re-flashing the prom on vehicles in for service so the oil change monitor will decrement at a faster rate because of the very issues at hand...sludge. Other car makers are doing the same. By the way.....those cadillacs have very fast sports car engines if you ever drive one......very nice! Better use group IV of your choice though to keep those engines happy!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
You have a link for this caddy claim? And what car makers are doing the same?

Sounds more like a faulty engine design to me.

It isn't the oil's fault that engines are either of faulty design, the mfg makes wrong recommendations, or owners neglect routine maintainence, ie: not changing oil.


Yea you're right Trajen.........I forgot that all the engines on the market are now junk, and both foreign and domestic cars are now making faulty defective engines that sludge up........how silly of me not to realize that like you do!!!

You might want to email all those links I pasted above and set them straight with your knowledge of why all those engines have issues. I guess they are all misinformed according to you!!

These are also wrong???

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1075810

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En...M_Certification.aspx
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
So, in other words, you *don't* have a link to your latest claim.

Kindly post when you do. Would like to know before I buy a CTS.

Neither link shows that Cadillac, or anyone else, is reducing OCIs.


Many of the dealers are just telling customers to change the oil sooner then what the manual states when issues arise,not just Cadillac.

That is why car makers are pushing for increased oil standards....to address the issues. I don't understand why you continue to ignore those facts.

Your going to buy a CTS?? That would be great to see that you "buy American"



http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2009/cover.htm

Took my 2004 Cadillac cts to the dealer today.

To make a long story short..

The Cadillac dealer service department told me today. The oil life monitor is a bad tool to use when deciding oil changing intervals. I had my oil changed 5000 miles ago. Oil life monitor indicated oil life 69%. I figured I could go at lest another 3500 miles before the next oil change. Not according to the dealer service advisor and an technician they advised me 3500miles regardless, the oil life monitor goes by the engines rpm and temperature and is only ruff yes I quote a ruff guide. I asked what the hell the oil life monitor is doing on GM vehicles and why GM is telling me different story. They had no answer, I said Amazing and left!

My question

Any of you on this forum been told this about the olm? I contacted GM, They stand behind the olm and suggested I continue to use the olm to service the vehicle. Yes I used the recommended Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic. And I will not return to this dealership again. Thank you in advanced.

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Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I'm not interested in what "dealers" are saying. I want the link to what mfgs are saying.

I also want the proof that car makers are pushing for what you claim.

I certainly haven't received any notice from a dealer to come in sooner than what the OCI already is.


http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2009/cover.htm


GM 6094M is based on the same specifications as ILSAC GF-4 but additionally includes some specific GM requirements. GM 4718M is the GM high performance oil specification that goes well beyond the industry standard ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications. The Mobil 1 grades that carry GM 4718M have been fully approved and tested against GM 4718M. The companion Mobil 1 Extended Performance viscosity grades have not been formally approved against GM 4718M but will provide the performance at GM 4718M level. Engine testing required to get formal approval is limited to certain Mobil 1 products only.

This is for European cars including those imported to America:

http://www.techmax.ca/european...l_specifications.htm

This one comes from shell

http://www.motoroilmatters.org...Shell%20-%202009.pdf

This one talks about the politics behind the scenes in Europe and the U.S.
http://www.smartmotorist.com/c...-specifications.html

Pretty straight forward!!
Last edited by captainkirk
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