I guess they kept the same high temp testing for GF-5. Some older posts on various boards (late 08 early 09), mentioned that the high temp testing was going to be different.
I might try some TC-W3 in the tank and see how it goes. Titan out of warranty anyways. I might use some old 2-stroke gas/oil mix that I have sitting around from last year. I will put in a gallon of that stuff first (my tank is almost 30 gal).
dave
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
The thing about the TC is that it's ashless, which makes it catalytic converter friendly.
And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.
30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.
And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/
And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.
30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.
And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The thing about the TC is that it's ashless, which makes it catalytic converter friendly.
And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.
30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.
And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/
Titan takes Regular 87, thank goodness. Love the Briggs ride, turn of the century go-kart!
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The thing about the TC is that it's ashless, which makes it catalytic converter friendly.
And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.
30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.
And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/
I have been using various fuel lube products such as,MMO,redline,lucas UCL,and even the amsoil 100:1 saber(500:1 in car).
Lately, I have been using the lucas UCL at roughly 5.25 ounces to 25 gallons of fuel. Seems to be the cheapest way to go. They sell the stuff by the gallon on Amazon with free shipping for about $25. In the past, the lucas quieted down a noisey fuel pump in my last car.
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.
The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.
Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.
What standard do you want in your engine???
What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.
Infineum has the first dual GF-5/dexos 1 additive package available.
http://www.infineum.com/Pages/news20100302.aspx
http://www.infineum.com/Pages/news20100302.aspx
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.
The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.
Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.
What standard do you want in your engine???
What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.
The NOACK volatility is on par for most major brands of CONVENTIONAL oil. PQI Test Results
I have no problem with that. If it was a GRP III or IV synthetic, then there would be a problem.
Here is a listing of "Private Label" conventionals. Private Label
SuperTech does not look too bad. Some, I would not use in my lawn mower..
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.
The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.
Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.
What standard do you want in your engine???
What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.
Kirk, I guess you are trying to compare apples to oranges. I was stating that conventional oils can meet the GF-5 standard w/o any synthetic base stock.Because you stated earlier that a more robust additive pack or synthetic blend would be needed. Try reading the full paragraph that I wrote, before jumping to conclusions. Of course a conventional oil is going to have a higher NOACK volatility than a Grp IV or III oil. Two totally different animals.quote:"Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard."
The NOACK volatility is on par for most major brands of CONVENTIONAL oil. PQI Test Results
I have no problem with that. If it was a GRP III or IV synthetic, then there would be a problem.
Here is a listing of "Private Label" conventionals. Private Label
SuperTech does not look too bad. Some, I would not use in my lawn mower..
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf
$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....
I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.
The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.
Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.
What standard do you want in your engine???
What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.
The oil meets GF-5. Despite what you claim, it's a conventional oil. The question was can you explain it?
That is the question. Not what I put in the Z4. Especially as I've made that plain. More than once
But, I'll say it again.
ACEA A3/B3. LL-01 if I can get it. And I can. But it *has* to be A3/B3. Not meets or exceeds. It *has* to have the ACEA mark. I'm anal that way. Maybe I'll try the Amsoil Euro. Maybe.
I've used BMW 5w-30, GC 0w-30, Castrol 5w-40, (LL-98 but still A3/B3), and M1 0w-40. Three of them are on the current BMWNA approved oil list.
I trust I won't have to repeat that.
See, I use API/ACEA rated oil. I use quality filters. I don't exceed mfg OCIs.
quote:See, I use API/ACEA rated oil. I use quality filters. I don't exceed mfg OCI
Same here Trajan. Both my Nissan's spec API/SL-SM and recommend mineral based oil. OCI 3750 Severe or 7500 Normal conditions. I meet in the middle and go 5000 on both vehicles. I am running Penz. Platinum Grp III right now (got it for a good price), but will start using PYB. Reason: Price. I am quite comfortable using a quality, name brand oil that meets the automaker's specs. I can get 12qts PYB for about the same cost as 5qt jug of platinum. I use quality filters too.
Dave
Maybe I've missed it, but do you guys know that there will be 2 different types of Dexos?
Dexos1 for America with emphasis on fuel economy and Dexos2 for Europe with higher limits on SAP levels. US will also get Dexos2, however Europe does not need the Dexos1 as it looks for now.
Dexos1 needs to fulfill the ILSAC norms and Dexos2 needs to fulfill ACEA C3-07. Basically Dexos2 is more or less designed for Diesel engines AND spark ignited engines, where Dexos1 is only for spark ignited engines.
Backwards compatibility:
“dexos1™ replaces GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M.”
“dexos2™ replaces GM-LL-B-025 and GM-LL-A-025.”
Dexos1 for America with emphasis on fuel economy and Dexos2 for Europe with higher limits on SAP levels. US will also get Dexos2, however Europe does not need the Dexos1 as it looks for now.
Dexos1 needs to fulfill the ILSAC norms and Dexos2 needs to fulfill ACEA C3-07. Basically Dexos2 is more or less designed for Diesel engines AND spark ignited engines, where Dexos1 is only for spark ignited engines.
Backwards compatibility:
“dexos1™ replaces GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M.”
“dexos2™ replaces GM-LL-B-025 and GM-LL-A-025.”
Found this tidbit about dexos and GF-5. asashop.org
Seems to be another way to up the prices. 15% for GF-5 and up to 30% for dexos. Seems to be GM's way of getting extra profit, since they were bailed out? Dexos for sparkers seems to be 0W-XX and the diesels are 5W-XX weight. Mostly Grp III PAO's for dexos.
Seems to be another way to up the prices. 15% for GF-5 and up to 30% for dexos. Seems to be GM's way of getting extra profit, since they were bailed out? Dexos for sparkers seems to be 0W-XX and the diesels are 5W-XX weight. Mostly Grp III PAO's for dexos.
Dave, PYB will work well. And yeah, no need for Ultra if you can get the same result with PYB for less than 1/2 the cost.
My owners manual doesn't say anything about severe/normal service, so I just take the OLM and divide by 2
EM, I didn't know about the two. Interesting.
Higher price... Pretty much a given
My owners manual doesn't say anything about severe/normal service, so I just take the OLM and divide by 2
EM, I didn't know about the two. Interesting.
Higher price... Pretty much a given
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Found this tidbit about dexos and GF-5. asashop.org
Seems to be another way to up the prices. 15% for GF-5 and up to 30% for dexos. Seems to be GM's way of getting extra profit, since they were bailed out? Dexos for sparkers seems to be 0W-XX and the diesels are 5W-XX weight. Mostly Grp III PAO's for dexos.
What a crazy concept,charge more for a better product.....less for a cheaper product!
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.
IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.
I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.
I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.
Dave
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.
IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.
I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.
I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.
Dave
This link is another reason why synthetic is just better. Look at those valve stems!
http://autorepair.about.com/od...fr/synthetic_oil.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/od...fr/synthetic_oil.htm
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.
IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.
I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.
I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.
Dave
You tow with the titan,spend 3 grand a year on fuel, don't use synthetic,live in florida, and tow in all that heat!
I am surprised to see that. Your choice,your vehicle,do what you want.
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.
Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.
Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.
I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.
many of them from Kerk's own links.
Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.
Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.
Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.
I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.
many of them from Kerk's own links.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.
Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.
Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.
I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.
many of them from Kerk's own links.
No tirades here trajen.........just the facts.........and you don't like them......OH WELL!!