Gear oils

Frixos,
You place a lot of questions together, look like they are related but are not. Lets try to solve this puzzle one question at a time.
1. Can AGO be used in an industrial gear box? If the Gear Box manufacturer recommend it, yes. AGO´s have a particular additive package that can create problems (real and serious problems)if is used inadecuate.
2."... -AGO´s- will provide better protection because the EP additive package..." Yes, if is use in the right application
3. This is only one of the diferences with hydraulic fluids (Is my understanding from ISO VG)
4. One of the factors that plays and active role in pricing for AGO are the additives, specially the multigrade package (if its a multigrade oil of course)
5. The main reason to do not see pretty frequently Automotive Gear Oils is because there are also Gear Oils for industrial applications, more specifics and many viscosity options.
6. This packages, turbine-reduction gear, are design to use the same reservoir, that mean the same oil. I do not the specific case you mentioned, however some of our customers have packages using the same oil in both application. This OEM selection is based on design, performance and lubrication needs.
7. Ypur last question... A: no. Not all the gearboxes are the same, not evry equipment with the word "hydraulic" on its description is the same, not all engines are the same, then why lubrication need are not the same.

I hope this help you.

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Originally posted by FRIXOS:
Can the automotive gear oil be used in an industrial gearbox?
I know that the SAE type gear oils have sulpur for the EP protection.Theoretically speaking the SAE oil will provide better protection because of the extreme pressure additive package.Is this the main differece from the ISO VG type oils used in industry?Is it because this oils are more expensive and not used in industry?
Also we see gearboxes in industry that transmit several MW for example a gas turbine to generator reduction gear.This gear uses the same oil as the gas turbine ISO VG32.So this rises another question can this oil be used in a car?

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Excellent question. Many of us have this doubt. With developments in the additive chemistry, there are gear oil additive packages common to automotive and industrial gears. Oil companies know about this developments but for commercial reasons they may not recommend users to follow. The important parameters to follow in this case is oil viscosity. Industrial grades are denoted in ISO ( the numbers appear are viscosity @40 C) where as for automotive, the grades are SAE (Viscosity resembles @100 C). If user wants to use automotive grade in industrial gears, he should refer viscosity SAE/ISO read across chart and be guided accordingly. It is not a difficult task. If you face difficulties, consult oil supplier.
Kumar
kumartr2@yahoo.com

Very informative,thanks.

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Originally posted by Frixos:
Can the automotive gear oil be used in an industrial gearbox?
I know that the SAE type gear oils have sulpur for the EP protection.Theoretically speaking the SAE oil will provide better protection because of the extreme pressure additive package.Is this the main differece from the ISO VG type oils used in industry?Is it because this oils are more expensive and not used in industry?
Also we see gearboxes in industry that transmit several MW for example a gas turbine to generator reduction gear.This gear uses the same oil as the gas turbine ISO VG32.So this rises another question can this oil be used in a car?

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The very simple answer is yes "we" in the industry do it all the time....but you have to know why you are selecting an SAE type {usually multi-grade} product rather than a single ISO grade product. You have made the correct statement that usually a SAE automotive type gear oil has a higher level of EP additaves. However you also need to realise that this is in part because sometimes the gears are moveing too slowly in the automotive application and so the EP ends up supporting the load through-out the boundary lubrication conditions. Normally when an industrial application gets up to speed there is a fully flooded condition and an elasto-hydrodynamic condition exists. So the EP additaves are not required in this situatiion. When a designer sits down to design a drive for a particular application the gear loading is calculated and then the size of the gear face width is determined based on some fairly well understood principles (ANSI/AGMA) Gear Teeth Ratings - Bending/Pitting Resistance. Whether the drive is in an automive application or an industrial gear reducer the actual loads to be transmitted are very similar. This excludes issues like shock loading. Another condition to understand is that most SAE gear oils are multi-grades and these are formulated to allow for cold temperature start-up with reasonable sumpability but still offer reasonable film thickness when the oil (or ambient temperature) warms up. Conversly the industrial oil is usually operated where some of these conditions do not exist. Just to finish off that thought the multi-grade oils use something called a VI improver or modifier. These additaves will be used up (break down) and so the oil eventually reverts back to the base oil viscosities. The ISO mono-grades will also sheer down but at a significently lower percentage. So the mono grades will probably have a longer usable life in the drive - as long as they do not get contaminated.
So yes you can use an SAE gear oil in a non-automotive type application. As long as you understand why the extra cost is being paid and you are getting the benifets that you are suspecting the SAE type product is offering.

I hope this helps you to understand the differences

regards.....

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Originally posted by Alan Wallace:

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Originally posted by Frixos:
Can the automotive gear oil be used in an industrial gearbox?
I know that the SAE type gear oils have sulpur for the EP protection.Theoretically speaking the SAE oil will provide better protection because of the extreme pressure additive package.Is this the main differece from the ISO VG type oils used in industry?Is it because this oils are more expensive and not used in industry?
Also we see gearboxes in industry that transmit several MW for example a gas turbine to generator reduction gear.This gear uses the same oil as the gas turbine ISO VG32.So this rises another question can this oil be used in a car?

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The very simple answer is yes "we" in the industry do it all the time....but you have to know why you are selecting an SAE type {usually multi-grade} product rather than a single ISO grade product. You have made the correct statement that usually a SAE automotive type gear oil has a higher level of EP additaves. However you also need to realise that this is in part because sometimes the gears are moveing too slowly in the automotive application and so the EP ends up supporting the load through-out the boundary lubrication conditions. Normally when an industrial application gets up to speed there is a fully flooded condition and an elasto-hydrodynamic condition exists. So the EP additaves are not required in this situatiion. When a designer sits down to design a drive for a particular application the gear loading is calculated and then the size of the gear face width is determined based on some fairly well understood principles (ANSI/AGMA) Gear Teeth Ratings - Bending/Pitting Resistance. Whether the drive is in an automive application or an industrial gear reducer the actual loads to be transmitted are very similar. This excludes issues like shock loading. Another condition to understand is that most SAE gear oils are multi-grades and these are formulated to allow for cold temperature start-up with reasonable sumpability but still offer reasonable film thickness when the oil (or ambient temperature) warms up. Conversly the industrial oil is usually operated where some of these conditions do not exist. Just to finish off that thought the multi-grade oils use something called a VI improver or modifier. These additaves will be used up (break down) and so the oil eventually reverts back to the base oil viscosities. The ISO mono-grades will also sheer down but at a significently lower percentage. So the mono grades will probably have a longer usable life in the drive - as long as they do not get contaminated.
So yes you can use an SAE gear oil in a non-automotive type application. As long as you understand why the extra cost is being paid and you are getting the benifets that you are suspecting the SAE type product is offering.

I hope this helps you to understand the differences

regards.....

Here the question is the use monograde automotive gear oil for industrial appplication and the answere is 'yes' with matching viscosity level. I have not seen use of multigrade gear oils for industrial gear application. Low speed high load automotive application is covered under API GL performance level and industrial gear oil performance is covered under US steel 224 specification. I said that there are additive packages comman for both applications, hence my recommendation.

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kumartr2@yahoo.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Frixos:
Can the automotive gear oil be used in an industrial gearbox?
I know that the SAE type gear oils have sulpur for the EP protection.Theoretically speaking the SAE oil will provide better protection because of the extreme pressure additive package.Is this the main differece from the ISO VG type oils used in industry?Is it because this oils are more expensive and not used in industry?
Also we see gearboxes in industry that transmit several MW for example a gas turbine to generator reduction gear.This gear uses the same oil as the gas turbine ISO VG32.So this rises another question can this oil be used in a car?

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If OEM requires use of turbine (R&O) oil ISO VG32, it is for a reason. One reason could be to eliminate possibility of mixing different lubes. The selection depends on gear type used (If OEM requires use of turbine (R&O) oil ISO VG32, it is for a reason. One reason could be to eliminate possibility of mixing different lubes. The selection depends on gear type used and the equipment configuration. Turbine oil (without EP additives) may be suitable for some types of industrial gears (spur, helical, right angle bevel), while others require EP additives (hypoid type, which is BTW the most common in automotive applications). As far as configuration is concerned, positioning of mechanical load brake clutch is important. It is noted in the industry that sometimes EP additives from oil can cause slippage of brake clutch if clutch is located inside the gearbox or is lubricated with EP additized oil. Apparently, EP additives form a sacrificial layer (which one would expect from such oil) on clutch surfaces and cause its slippage.