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Hi everyone,

Here is your opportunity to visually identify two debris samples, each about 4 mm in diameter and wafer thin, the other side of both, not shown, being granular where the platelets fatigued out of the parent metal. The two photo's are in the Photo Album below.

Are they from gears or bearings ?

Lets call one "rough" and the other "smooth" for identification.

I look forward to the poll results.

Cheers

John
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Come on guys, only 4 people have put their hand up to date.

Recieving replies is the best way I can think of FOR US ALL to really find out whether anyone can identify the source of wear debris by its look.

It's a way of figuring out how useful a wear debris analysis atlas really is and whether WDA is effective or not.

It's not a competition as to who is right !

Come on guys, have a go and help US ALL.

Cheers

John
John,

Firstly, the platelets could have been generated by surface fatigue pitting from a bearing race (inner or outer) and you might likely see large spall marks on the affected surface. Particles are laminar and appear to have a "jagged" edge on one side and a somewhat "smoother" on the other. Striation and particle discoloration marks are also visible therefore likely advanced wear. Gear wear generally generate 1:1:1 ratio particles but it depends heavily on the wear / failure mode.

That said, it might just as well be the flipside of the coin but it goes to show that you should not try and evaluate a whole system on one particle, the composition of the filter pad residue i. e. the entire story must be viewed e. g. how many of this size, what are the other types of platelets, contamination ...

Wear debris is very effective if approached in a logical and not a one sample tells you everything approach. This is possibly the single biggest pitfall of most programs. You get the guys who try to shock the daylights out of maintenance by attaching a photo of the biggest and baddest particle to the report when it is in actual fact a once off - eventually this tactic start to have the reverse effect.

What I am getting at is - stick to a wholistic approach - one particle has never been able to tell you everything.

Stefan
Hi all, and thank you for your replies.

The purpose of the poll from my point of view was to find out whether it's possible to identify particles by their "look" refering to a particle atlas or whether one needs XRF analysis to determine the source.

My contention is that XRF can give the ratio of iron to chrome which is very different from bearings 1-1.3 % and gears 0.1%. The other elements are not so different.

My own opinion based on visual identification was that the rough one was from a gear tooth and the smooth one was from a bearing. Given that they are 4 mm dia, I felt a brg fault must be major yet nothing was showing up with the VA.

The XRF test was then performed and answer was that they are both definitely gear steel !

The speed reducing gearbox is used to drive 2 MW Banbury mixer in a tire plant and is still running nearly a year later.

Spalling increased in Dec '04 and reduced in March '05 for no apparent reason.

More than 1000 people viewed the images but only 4 put their thoughts to paper.

Conclusion, I'm not buying a particle atlas.

Cheers

John
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