Skip to main content

Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

I was reading the post by TallPaul and the discussion about Redline. I thought I had a handle on motor oil, but all the talk about tacky oil, Esters, seals, etc.. my brains fell out and rolled under my desk.

My questions is which Dino oil & Syn. oil is good for a daily driver? Please back up your opinion with some shred of fact. Driving details: U.S. driver, 1995 F-150, 300 miles a week, 140k miles on my baby.

I know I am opening a can of worms with this discussion, since oil preferences are like talking about religon or politics but, inquiring minds want to know.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

I've been a member at bobistheoilguy for over 3 years. I've learned a few things but mainly that any oil will do.

If your changing the oil every 3-4k miles, stick with any good dino/synblend such as Motorcraft, Havoline, Chevron etc. They are all good.

When it comes to Synthetics, M1, Amsoil, Redline and the German Castrol are all excellent choices. I like M1 and Amsoil for daily drivers and would prefer RL for racing due to it's uniquie polyolester chemistry.

You can't go wrong with any oil today IMO. Don't sweat the stuff always being talked about on here and on Bob's. It's for the fanatics (I'm one of them Big Grin).
I could not have said it better than Buster did (though I would have thrown Valvoline in the list--personal bias Wink ).

quote:
Originally posted by Pete:
Driving details: U.S. driver, 1995 F-150, 300 miles a week, 140k miles on my baby.


My Baby: 1995 F150 supercab, short bed, 2wd, 4.9 L, 5 speed stick, 120,000 miles, about 200 miles per week.
Pete

http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html

I do not think that wear is an issue with current oils and well maintained engines.

However, given a chance minerals will sludge and will certainly leave deposits. Synthetics are less likely to cause these problems.

Synthetics are performance oils for either extremes, performance engines or long OCIs. If you do not need these benefits then they ar not the oil for you as they are expensive or are they.

If you have your car serviced or take into account your time in changing oil, perhaps you can have a performance oil for free, and not many perforance parts are free.

The main benefit of esters are in high temp situations like racing and ability to reduce viscosity.
quote:
Originally posted by MGBV8:
Pete

http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html

I do not think that wear is an issue with current oils and well maintained engines.

However, given a chance minerals will sludge and will certainly leave deposits. Synthetics are less likely to cause these problems.

Synthetics are performance oils for either extremes, performance engines or long OCIs. If you do not need these benefits then they ar not the oil for you as they are expensive or are they.

If you have your car serviced or take into account your time in changing oil, perhaps you can have a performance oil for free, and not many perforance parts are free.

The main benefit of esters are in high temp situations like racing and ability to reduce viscosity.
IMO

Amsoil is the best synthetic

Have 28 yrs of experience using it (since 1977), they have been on the market the longest with Mobil a few years less. All the other brands are in the last 5-10 yrs.


Havoline is the best dino.

My fleet trucks (leased by gov't) used this for more than 10 yrs. My last truck, a 1999 K2500 Chevy Suburban got 5000 miles OCI, usually used about 1/2 qt of less in 5000 hard miles of use by a survey crew. Truck was turned in in 2003 and was in very good condition at 125,000+ miles.
My understanding of Amsoil is that they are so close to Mobil 1, that their is little value in using it. At one time, I've heard several knowledgable people say Amsoil was the best. But now, although still very good and very top notch, they are on par with Mobil 1. Amsoil seems to have severe oxidation issues. They too formulate to a price point.
O.A.I Testing in Cleveland OH. I know what your saying about the SAE classification not fitting but don't forget this is an analysis and its result will show any number that the test produces. I was also not born yesterday to realize an SAE 8w doesn't exist on the store shelves but if that's what the reports says & I can read, and it's put out by guys wearing whites...
It could be that the TAN & TBN numbers to name a few has something to do with how the results are arrived at.
Thanks for the great chart by the way.
quote:
Originally posted by Rudy Hiebert:
What catagories are you rating this brand so high? When you check out some comparison charts, you'll see some surprises.
I assume you are refering to the Maxlife Synthetic. Here are some impressive numbers for Maxlife Synthetic 10w30 from the Valvoline web site as of Sept '04:

Viscosity at 100C: 11.5 cSt
TBN: 10
Flash Point: 230 C
Pour Point: -42 C
NOACK % at 250C: 8.3
Zinc: 1000 ppm
Phosphours: 920 ppm
Calcium: 3870 ppm
Moly: 290 ppm

Also lists "Approvals/Performance Levels":
ACEA A3-02
BMW Longlife 98
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00
and a few others like SL/CF

Nice stuff!
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
quote:
Originally posted by Rudy Hiebert:
What catagories are you rating this brand so high? When you check out some comparison charts, you'll see some surprises.
I assume you are refering to the Maxlife Synthetic. Here are some impressive numbers for Maxlife Synthetic 10w30 from the Valvoline web site as of Sept '04:

Viscosity at 100C: 11.5 cSt
TBN: 10
Flash Point: 230 C
Pour Point: -42 C
NOACK % at 250C: 8.3
Zinc: 1000 ppm
Phosphours: 920 ppm
Calcium: 3870 ppm
Moly: 290 ppm

Also lists "Approvals/Performance Levels":
ACEA A3-02
BMW Longlife 98
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00
and a few others like SL/CF
Nice stuff!

On Thu, 26 May 2005 01:07:55 -0700 (PDT), "forums.noria.com" wrote:
Email Digest for Thu May 26 2005 for forums.noria.com

"....Nice stuff!"

Reply to Post:
As long as comparisons are not as apples to oranges. I reckon that - that might be the case more often than not, and one just needs to know what their money buys them.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil (ATM)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
11.7

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
66.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
174

CCS Viscosity @ -20°C, cP (ASTM D 2602)
2063

Borderline Pumping Temperature °C (°F) (ASTM D-3829)
<-40 (-40)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)
-51 (-60)

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
230 (446)

Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm)
0.35

Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (DIN 51581)
6.8

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity cP, 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1, (ASTM D 4683),
>3.5

Total Base Number
>11.0
RH
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
Very nice specs on the Amsoil. That would be PAO, right? Can you show me a Group III that compares well to the Maxlife Synthetic (which according to the MSDS appears to be a Group III)?

Still waiting for the my source to help out here, but I'll give it a go:
Yes, it is PAO. On the Group III question, my answer is hardly complete what I do know is, and that may not be as much as yourself, here is a copy of what I found after doing some googling:
Last year, Castrol (Swingdon, U.K.) and Mobil (Fairfax, VA) brought the debate over what is “synthetic” into view, as Mobil challenged Castrol’s replacement of polyalphaolephins (PAOs) with hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulations. Exactly one year after the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus’ ruling in April 1999, upholding Castrol’s position that wax isomerates could be called synthetic, Petro-Canada (Toronto) advertised it would be referring to its very high viscosity index (VHVI) basestocks as a synthetic in the North American market. These products fall into the same API group (Group III) as wax isomerates, but could vary significantly in quality from wax isomerates. This market roar by Petro-Canada has carried a quiet undertone of moves from PAO to VHVI technology by several engine oil marketers.

farther down the article...
"Yet, when LW asked several industry experts about the NAD ruling, their feelings regarding market effects were mixed (LW, Oct. 1999, p. 30; Nov. 1999, p. 35). A Castrol representative then stated the VHVIs would be competitive with PAOs and that the consumer would benefit from that competition.

A PAO expert disagreed, saying the NAD decision would have minimal impact on the formulation of synthetics. “The quality of Group III products in inconsistent, and their physical properties are different from one manufacturer to the next,” he says. If the industry heads in the direction of replacing PAO with VHVI, he says, “consumers will be misled and the high margin niche that has been developed by present-day synthetics will erode.”

Barrett Cupples, a consulting scientist who worked with PAOs at Chevron Chemical for 20 years, cautions marketers against directly switching from PAOs to VHVIs without adequate testing. “According to API base oil guide lines, Group III stocks may not simply be substituted for PAOs in motor oil formulation,” he says. “Any switch will require extensive testing to ensure that the final product fully meets the requirements of that lubricant.”

Further downstream, the players in the synthetic PCMO market – Castrol, Pennzoil-Quaker State, and Valvoline – have each released reformulations and new blends in the past several months. The reason for this interest, according to one industry market analysis, is the competitive nature of the market, the projection for market growth, and the re-awakening of cost savings in blends".

In today's (June 1) inbox came the following link:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlf.aspx and the confirmation this particular product is Gr.lll I'm not sure if it satisfies or confirms your opinion but thanks for the opp to do this.
Last edited by rudyhiebert
I'm in the same boat as Buster. I've been at BITOG for about 3 years and have learned alot. It's all of matter of personal preference or if your really serious, UOA's do help alot too.

Me personally, I'm loyal to the GroupIV and V PAO synthetics. M1, Amsoil, etc.. I like them all but as far as this whole deal of Amsoil vs M1 is like comparing Ford vs Chevy. It's a never ending personal preference rip everyone's hair out. Just my take,,,,AR
Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×