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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

For the vehicles in my family I feel I have a proven winner in Redline.

1) 96 Mustang GT
2) 99 Mustang Cobra
3) 86 Corvette
4) 75 Corvette

I also have the 87 Ranger, and my sons's 91 Bronco...These will continue to see whats on sale.

In the 4 listed vehicles I was using Mobil 1 and Mobil EP at the end.. Great oil's on their own, but I always seemed to suffer from burnoff and had to top off.

I also noticed what others have always mentioned, a noisier engine. I have never done a UOA to follow any possible wear patter. Like I mentioned great performing oils but the 2 issues always stuck out at me.

I will stick with the 10W-30, but am considering the 5W-40 flavor for the 75. The HTHS on that oil is 4.6. The viscosity at 100 Deg. C is a whopping 15.1, pour point of -49F. For this 35 y/o Chevy I thinks those are good numbers. Perhaps even add 1 qt. of the 40W redline race oil for an extra dose of moly and zinc.

Since switching over to Redline I no longer suffer from burnoff like I did with Mobil 1, at the most maybe a 1/2 qt per 6k...Maybe...

If anybody has any suggestions or comments I am open to listening to them...Thanks.
Last edited {1}
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Never heard anything bad about the oil. I wouldn't use it myself as it doesn't meet what I want. But...

They have distributors the world over.

They have more than one grade.

If I was to use it, a dealer is only 6 miles away.

If it works for you, stick with it.

6100 Egret Court, Benicia, CA 94510 you can actually see on google satellite.
Last edited by trajan
I actually purchased 2 cases of 10W-30 from racer parts wholesale through Amazon. I believe it worked out to $9.95 QT.

I have about 15-20k in fun money to build a beast. Just going to research things slowly so I buy things only once.

What about the idea of running 5W-40? I mean in the Seattle area we don't see to big extremes of temps...In any case it wouldn't be driven in inclimate conditions anyway. Would that oil provide a level of protection above and beyond the 10W-30? Of course the 5W-40 grade would only be used in the Corvette.

Nice subtle dig by the way. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Having now tried both RL and Amsoil I would use RL. IMO the engine sounded better with the RL. I think they use better additives, and lots of moly. Hope I don't get flamed, I call it like I see it.

AD


AD, you are not going to get flamed, at least not from me, then again I am a pretty mellow Bear.

Redline Products are top notch, and Dave, the guy many of us talk too over at Redline is a great guy. I think there oil's will keep an engine cleaner than Amsoil's motor oil's. I believe Amsoil's oil's are kind of old school, some of there oil's do not have Moly in them, and I have noticed my cars run better when I put in some Moly Additive, and Redline Oil's seem to have alot of Moly in them, since Moly is one of the most expensive additives in oil then I can see why Redline's oil's are a bit more expensive. So if Redline seems to be making your engine run better, then you might as well stick with it.

I think when I do my next Gear Oil Change I will be trying Redline Gear Oil instead of purchasing more Amsoil Gear Oil.
Yea I might give their gear oil a shot too. My father was getting me the Amsoil, but the PC fee is a turn off, he used it for a year and decided not to pay for the PC fee anymore.

From all I've been reading I think RL is a better product for the money. But then again that is my opinion, and what is one mans opinion worth? Well my father and uncle feel the same way too, so there's 3 opinions.

AD
Redline's price is about on par with other high end oils. Amazon has the 75w-140 for about 14 a quart now. Not bad, considering RP is about 18 and M-1 about 18 for that viscosity. It really quieted the diff down, especially low speed backing and highway cruise. I have stock exhaust, so I can hear power train noise. But this summer, watch out, Magnaflows are going in!

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Only complaints I ever heard about RL was price. LOL, I never heard or read a bad thing about their products. That my friend is a lot more than I can say for some of the other popular high ticket oils. Big Grin

AD


That's the only bad thing I've heard. Can't quite convince myself to use it, but that takes nothing away from the fact that it's a good oil.
Redline Gear Oil failed 2 basic gear oil tests, foaming and viscosity, according to this white paper http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf .

Does Red Line offer a warranty? I searched "warranty" on their website and found nothing.

This is also not confidence inspiring.
"Q: Will using Red Line products void my vehicle's factory warranty?
Using the appropriate Red Line product shouldn't invalidate your vehicle's warranty and question the mechanic or service manager that says so."
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Redline Gear Oil failed 2 basic gear oil tests, foaming and viscosity, according to this white paper http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf .

Does Red Line offer a warranty? I searched "warranty" on their website and found nothing.

This is also not confidence inspiring.
"Q: Will using Red Line products void my vehicle's factory warranty?
Using the appropriate Red Line product shouldn't invalidate your vehicle's warranty and question the mechanic or service manager that says so."
Provided it's the correct viscosity, it will not.
Thanks all for your great feedback...I would also like to point out absent a certain member, we manage to communicate without any drama or attacks.

Since we are on the subject of Redline products...Any feedback concerning the Redline D4 ATF? The Corvette I see as a 1-2 year project...With my job I'm gone a good 8-9 months...The engine/transmission will be replaced with high performance one's. So the Redline products I feel will serve me well.

I am looking forward to enjoying it for a couple more weeks before flying out for a few months...Thsnks all.
Consider lubrication engineers 1150 trans all for the automatics. I buy it in the 5 gallon pails for my automatic trans cars. A very large transmission cooler will make more of a difference than any oil you choose here. Red line MTL for my sons 5 speed focus. Tried red line 75-140 in the mitchel under drive in my f-250. Straight lucas pure synthetic oil stabilizer is much better. Less noise and smoother shifts. I use tractor hydraulic and lucas synthetic 50% each in the f-250 5 speed instead of ATF. Its better in every respect than atf except in very cold weather,and even then it clears up in less than 5 mile of driving. The 5-40 is a little thick for your mustangs. 0-20 or 5-20 redline would be better there. I tried 5-40 delvac in my Lincoln when I was buying it in bulk for my freightliner. Its a little heavy for this engine. That only gets worse if the lucas synthetic additive is used with it. The ford modular engine likes thin oil PERIOD. The small block chevy would probobly be happy with the used oil I take out of my freghtliner after 30000 miles. But if you want to spoil it like a grand child 5- 40 redline will be over kill enough to make you happy.

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quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Thanks all for your great feedback...I would also like to point out absent a certain member, we manage to communicate without any drama or attacks.

Since we are on the subject of Redline products...Any feedback concerning the Redline D4 ATF? The Corvette I see as a 1-2 year project...With my job I'm gone a good 8-9 months...The engine/transmission will be replaced with high performance one's. So the Redline products I feel will serve me well.

I am looking forward to enjoying it for a couple more weeks before flying out for a few months...Thsnks all.


Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.

My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.

Some of these reps will tell you exactly what you want to hear. No RL reps here attacking, defending, or pushing. Sorry guys, but that's how I see it in a lot of these threads, and it gets old man.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.
For those who have a qualified business, there is no fee to buy at wholesale. By far, most of my customers fall in this category, only 13% pay a membership fee. I only suggest the $10 membership if it saves them more than that on their first order, which it usually does. It also gets them a 32 page wholesale catalog, a monthly subscription to AMSOIL Action News and some other promotional items. And they get 10% off retail after their membership expires. Not a bad deal for $10. And for some tight budgeted college students I know, I have waived the $10 fee.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.
No manufacturer requires an API certified motor oil, it just needs to meet API specifications. If you don't see the listed vehicle manufacturers API classification listed on a motor oil, then I don't think you should use it. AMSOIL motor oils meet the API specifications, and have never voided a warranty in 38 years. And if the oil ever does fail, you are covered by the AMSOIL warranty.
Last edited by timvipond
I'm not fond of oils that don't have API/ACEA approval either.

But I have to wiegh that against the fact that RL isn't a shady operation. That they operate the world over. That I can buy it in an actual brick and mortar store. That they don't rail against third party UOA/VOA tests.

Amsoil is a good oil as well. And XL is API certed. But, not one I use.

Warranty wise, I don't think it's an issue with the users in this thread.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.
For those who have a qualified business, there is no fee to buy at wholesale. By far, most of my customers fall in this category, only 13% pay a membership fee. I only suggest the $10 membership if it saves them more than that on their first order, which it usually does. It also gets them a 32 page wholesale catalog, a monthly subscription to AMSOIL Action News and some other promotional items. And they get 10% off retail after their membership expires. Not a bad deal for $10. And for some tight budgeted college students I know, I have waived the $10 fee.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.
No manufacturer requires an API certified motor oil, it just needs to meet API specifications. If you don't see the listed vehicle manufacturers API classification listed on a motor oil, then I don't think you should use it. AMSOIL motor oils meet the API specifications, and have never voided a warranty in 38 years. And if the oil ever does fail, you are covered by the AMSOIL warranty.


Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.

The family was in the automotive business and knows how it works. Cars sit in lots waiting for these things to get sorted out. Yea it could be 1 in 10,000, but not worth it. OTOH I have more faith in the RL people and would use their product first. As the saying goes, to each is own.

AD
I spoke with Dave at RL, honest, standup, good guy. I'd have no problem dealing with them at all. I just don't care for Amsoil's way of doing business anymore. Seems like an easy way for people to make some extra cash, with about $50 out of pocket expense. It just don't float my boat.

The other thing I wonder about is since dealers are paid a commission, then if they sign up new dealers, they get a little cut from them, I think? Lots of money changes hands, that all gets added into the cost.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.
Usually everything is taken care of in a few phone calls. No lawyer has been needed. I think the vehicle manufacturers might be aware that no one has proved AMSOIL has caused an oil related failure in 38 years, so they back down.

The AMSOIL rep really has nothing to do with it. No need to take the word of the AMSOIL rep. when the warranty is clearly spelled out and easily accessible on the website.

The claim is filed and taken care of by AMSOIL directly. When in doubt, AMSOIL has paid the claim to get the vehicle back on the road ASAP, then goes after the manufacturer. No fuss, no muss. If there was, you'd hear people screaming about it on the internet. Now if the oil you use does not have a warranty, then you are likely in trouble, and the scenerio you described will likely be true.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

The other thing I wonder about is since dealers are paid a commission, then if they sign up new dealers, they get a little cut from them, I think? Lots of money changes hands, that all gets added into the cost.

AD


Dealers are never paid for signing up a new dealer. Only if the new dealer makes some sales, and it is a small amount ( I have 15 dealers that I have trained and get less than 10% of my income from them. Over 90% of my income comes from direct sales with my customers).

Compare that to traditional oil companies that have sales staff that get paid salary plus commission, and help pay for their sales manager, secretary, overhead, etc. Much less money changes hands with AMSOIL compared to traditional oil companies (I retired from Shell Oil) who pay foreign countries for crude oil, tens of thousands of employees, have to build huge refineries and chemical plants, pay their dozens of levels of management, pay their sales staff, pay their distribution system, pay their retailers, pay for huge bonuses and retirements, pay for skyscrapers and corporate jets, etc. And now they are laying off thousands of employees which hurt our economy.

AMSOIL commissions are small compared to traditional oil company costs. Plus it allows thousands of people to start their own business in a climate where few jobs are available, which helps our economy. The interesting thing is that AMSOIL is setting record sales which have doubled in the last 4 years, while the traditional motor oil business was down 20% last year.

If you don't like dealing with an AMSOIL dealer, you can always order factory direct.
Last edited by timvipond
I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all to be honest Tim. I tried their products, thought they were OK for a while then realized they were nothing great, just hype.

I don't care for their business model either, or the way their reps watch every thread for comments about the product, then chime in and try to defend or push for a sale. Reminds me of a company pushing some expensive engine cleaner. IMO its a real turn off. I have some dialogue with friends on other sites that aren't thrilled with the product, the high prices, and the shipping costs either. Its a boutique high priced product, but not for this Sailor.

I also have a hard time wrapping my brain around them backing a product like SSO or ASM if there is a problem related to oil. They'll fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. I'd fare better with something that has the API certs or RL as a company, all the motor heads I know say RL blows Amsoil away.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all to be honest Tim. I tried their products, thought they were OK for a while then realized they were nothing great, just hype.
What hype? I've found AMSOIL to back their claims with undisputed data, the longest recommended oil and filter changes, and the best warranty in the business. It was the oil change intervals and warranty that sold me. 1 oil change a year for each of my 4 vehicles instead of 5 a year per vehicle was exactly what I wanted.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I don't care for their business model either, or the way their reps watch every thread for comments about the product, then chime in and try to defend or push for a sale. Reminds me of a company pushing some expensive engine cleaner. IMO its a real turn off. I have some dialogue with friends on other sites that aren't thrilled with the product, the high prices, and the shipping costs either. Its a boutique high priced product, but not for this Sailor.
I like their business model. I found running an AMSOIL business is very low risk and probably the easiest business to run. No deliveries, no store, no bill collecting, no inventory, work when I feel like it, don't work when I don't (a real plus for me since I am undergoing cancer chemotherapy). My customers are thrilled with the product once they try it. I've had the same customers since I started 6 years ago and reorders are by far my biggest income. Their price of oil per warranted mile is lower than with any other oil they've used. There are no shipping charges if you pick up at the warehouses or retail stores. AMSOIL, an American owned family company, purchases from American vendors, is blended and bottled by Americans, and is sold by Americans. The money stays here. And the business model is probably the most successful for motor oils with increased market share every year for 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I also have a hard time wrapping my brain around them backing a product like SSO or ASM if there is a problem related to oil. They'll fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. I'd fare better with something that has the API certs or RL as a company, all the motor heads I know say RL blows Amsoil away. AD


There has never been a problem with AMSOIL backing any of their products. I sell to over 370 accounts for 6 years and there has never been a problem. AMSOIL sells to over 1500 government agencies and some of the largest fleets in America. In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles. No problems. And of course, if API certifications are important to you, AMSOIL offers 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 that are API certified. I don't see that Red Line has any API certified oils. How does RL blow AMSOIL away? Any data? All the undisputed independent test data I've seen (and can share if you like) shows AMSOIL outperforms Red Line.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles.


I don't have a dog in this hunt, but can you back that one?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles.

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:I don't have a dog in this hunt, but can you back that one?

Sure. I've had several DPS vehicles contact me looking for AMSOIL as they ran low and needed oil and filters. They told me that all the DPS cars use AMSOIL and change at 20,000 mile intervals. I've spoken to several DPS and they tell me how happy they are to run AMSOIL at 20,000 mile oil change intervals. Feel free to contact them and ask. From the Texas DPS budget: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/d...contract_listing.pdf
PURCHASE ORDERS/CONTRACTS
ACTIVE AS OF 12/17/09

06-754 06/08/06 6-36019 AMSOIL INC $121,572.02MOTOR OIL, 100% SYNTHETIC
06-939 09/11/06 6-36021 AMSOIL INC $128,192.59AIR & OIL FILTERS

Here is an article:
In 2001

The Texas Department of Public Safety
and Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants (Inc.)
Superior, Wisconsin

conducted a field test to determine the cost effectiveness and engine wear protection provided by AMSOIL products in severe service applications.

Amsoil 5W-30 Motor Oil and Super Duty Oil Filters were installed in five police vehicles. No oil changes were performed during the 24,000 mile testing period.

AT the 12,000 mark, the oil filters were changed and one quart of oil was added to each vehicle to replace the oil lost with the filter change out.

The Texas Department of Public Safety police fleet vehicles were 1999 Ford Crown Victoria patrol cars. The initial cost breakdown with AMSOIL products is as follows:

Oil Cost $4.00/qt x 5 qts = $20.00
Amsoil SDF Oil Filters $7.00 x 2 = $14.00
Oil for filter change (one quart) $4.00
Labor $10.00 x 2 = $20.00
Total: $ 58
Totals Based on US. Commercial
ASL Pricing Per Case.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Using conventional petroleum oil for
the standard 3,000 mile drain intervals,
the Department invests $176 per vehicle

over the 24,000 mile testing period.
Oil Cost $1.75/qt x 40 qts = $70.00 Oil Filters $3.25 x 8 = $26.00
Labor $10.00 x 8 = $80.00 Total $ 176 Without even taking into consideration the superior protection and performance
AMSOIL motor oil offers over a conventional lubricant,
The Texas Department of Public Safety saves $118 per
vehicle in lubricant expenses alone.

When extending these savings to all nine vehicles in the
Canyon office, AMSOIL motor oil
saves the department $ 1062.

Taken even further,
If all 100 vehicles in the district switched to AMSOIL
motor oil and SDF oil filters for drain intervals of 24,000
miles, they would save

$ 11,800.

If all 3,000 vehicles statewide made the switch,
the State of Texas Tax payers would save a staggering

$ 354,000

in lubricant costs alone ... not including the reduced
amount of fuel consumption that accompanies Amsoil
Synthetic Lubricants use > in all motor vehicles.
Spectra Analysis results of one of the test vehicles showed
that the superior lubricating properties of AMSOIL
Synthetic 5W-30 Motor OIl provided outstanding protection
and performance throughout an extended drain life. AMSOIL
Synthetic 5W-30 retained its stable operating viscosity
throughout the trial, and contaminants such as iron and
lead were virtually nonexistent.
YOU are loosing money by being conditioned to think that it
is "Normal" for repair costs to be high ...
It is not ...

Repair costs being high are a result in using medium to
mediocre products to protect that are not capable
of doing the job that they were sold to do.


And another:

AMSOIL INC., together with Dealer Jerry Criswell and the Texas Department of Public Safety, conducted a field test of its 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil and SDF Oil Filters. Installed in five police fleet vehicles, the lubricant was sampled and tested at various intervals. The goals for this particular field test included demonstrating that the use of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil for extended drain intervals would not only result in lower lubricant expenses, but also superior wear protection. When taking advantage of the extended drain intervals of AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil, it costs the Texas Department of Public Safety $57.20 to lube one vehicle (5 quart capacity) for 24,000 miles:

2002 Figures: 2007 Figures:
Oil Cost ($3.90/qt x 5 qts) $19.50 Oil Cost ($4.05/qt x 5 qts) $20.25
SDF Oil Filters ($6.90 x 2) $13.80 Ea Oil Filter ($7.90 ea) $7.90
Oil @ filter change (one qt) $ 3.90 No add'l filter change $0.00
Labor ($10.00 x 2) $20.00 Labor ($10.00 x 1) $10.00
$57.20 $38.15

If using a conventional 5W-30 lubricant for standard 3000-mile oil and filter drain intervals, it would cost the Texas Department of Public Safety approximately $176 to lube one vehicle (5 quart capacity) for 24,000 miles. For example:

Oil Cost ($1.75/qt x 40 qts) $70.00
Oil Filters ($3.25 x 8) $26.00
Labor ($10.00 x 8) $80.00
$176.00

Without even taking into consideration the superior protection and performance AMSOIL motor oil offers over a conventional lubricant, the Texas Department of Public Safety saves $118.80 per vehicle in lubricant expenses alone. When extending these savings to all nine vehicles in the Canyon office, AMSOIL motor oil saves the department $1069.20. Taken even further, if all 100 vehicles in the district switched to AMSOIL motor oil and SDF oil filters for drain intervals of 24,000 miles, they would save $11,880. (almost all DPS vehicles throughout Texas now use AMSOIL)

Of course, extended drain intervals are no bargain if they compromise engine protection. Even though it was in service 13 times longer than the previous conventional oil, the rates of wear with AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil were significantly lower. The oil analysis results of one test vehicle are shown below, and the results were typical of all five test vehicles. The first line represents the petroleum oil baseline at 1,749 miles. As one can see, the rates of wear with AMSOIL 5W-30 are significantly lower than the petroleum oil, even at extended drain intervals.

Note: Oil analysis is recommended for all fleet applications to determine proper drain intervals.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, I tried Amsoil, the family tried Amsoil, you can pitch till you get tired, you won't be selling me on it again. I talk to a machinist friend of the family my father worked with him since in the early 70's, he's still in business. He's rebuilt thousands & thousands of engines, and has done work for dealerships all over the metro NY area. I haven't seen him since I moved to WA, but we spoke about RL, Amsoil, and M1 many times, we talk all when ever I see him. He's seen engines run on each and everyone of these oils. RL hands down the winner, when it comes to keeping an engine clean, and reduced wear via visual inspection, and measurement. I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over. Then there was a dude that had a HP Buick GN that had some impressive UOA reports and an engine that was shot upon visual inspection and measurement. He posts on the other site. I'll take info from pros vs some data Amsoil or any company publishes. I'm sure RL has their own tests showing their products to be superior, as does Mobil, Pennzoil, and Castrol. Marketing, and exaggerating facts is easy, as is using a 4 ball wear test to show oil quality.

As I said, you won't sell me on the stuff, sorry guy.

I wonder how many people ran those filters they were redesigning, these:
Amsoil announces it is re-designing, re-engineering the few smaller affected filters. EAO 9, 10, 13, 57. They aren't up to par for the interval they were sold for. Amsoil rep Gary Allen speaks about it in a thread on Bitog. I wonder how many of those engines life expectancy was cut down as a result of using those filters for extended drain, then having an oil light come on because it is clogged up? The good news is no one will ever know, that should keep Amsoil off the hook for now. I'll bet Amsoil says no harm was done.

My Pop was a salesman at one point in his career, a real good one, he had awards hanging all over his office at home. In fact he could have probably sold an Eskimo air conditioning. He can't sell me on it anymore, but then again he won't use it. Besides I get my facts from real people in the know, not salesman trying to push product for their own gain.

Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Tim, I tried Amsoil, the family tried Amsoil, you can pitch till you get tired, you won't be selling me on it again.
I'm not pitching anything in this thread. I am merely trying to clear up some myths, half truths and untruths that have shown up in this thread.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:As I said, you won't sell me on the stuff, sorry guy.
You don't have to be sorry. That was never my intention. I'm just correcting the mis-information that was presented.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: I wonder how many people ran those filters they were redesigning, these:
Amsoil announces it is re-designing, re-engineering the few smaller affected filters. EAO 9, 10, 13, 57. They aren't up to par for the interval they were sold for. Amsoil rep Gary Allen speaks about it in a thread on Bitog. I wonder how many of those engines life expectancy was cut down as a result of using those filters for extended drain, then having an oil light come on because it is clogged up? The good news is no one will ever know, that should keep Amsoil off the hook for now. I'll bet Amsoil says no harm was done.
AMSOIL says that only in extremely rare occasions did any problem occur. I've sold hundreds of those particular filters and don't know of any that caused an oil light to come on. And it only seems to be a problem if you drove around a lot after the oil pressure light comes on, which of course you shouldn't do anyway. There are a lot of UOA's on these vehicles and filters and I have not seen one that indicated a problem. I think AMSOIL did the right thing by no longer offering those filters for those applications until they can investigate further and redesign the filters. You can read the latest update at https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...vals.aspx?zo=1181889 .


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.
Last edited by timvipond
There is no doubt that Amsoil makes some great products, there trans fluid, diff fluid, and powersteering fluid are great products, but I have a hard time believing any of there tests, I see them only posting data that is going to make there products look favorable.

As far as being a dealer, it seems that anyone can become a dealer, it would be nice if Amsoil would give some sort of test for anyone that wants to be a dealer, how can you tell if what they are saying is correct, I also see some Amsoil Dealers pushing other products and overhyping Amsoil. I also have a big problem with any Amsoil Dealer who is not really using there products, and instead they are going down to Wal-Mart and using the cheapest oil they can get there hands on.

I also do not buy Amsoil being an extended drain oil, the only time you can extend your OCI is if you are doing alot of highway driving and not doing the short trip soccer mom thing. I saw a Synthetic Oil Life Study where Amsoil motor oil's started to thicken up after 7000 miles. I believe Amsoil is catering to people who just do not want to do the normal oil changes, and in the long run many people who do extended drains will pay the price.

I do not buy that Amsoil 100% Synthetic Oil can go 25,000 miles, I have seen UOA's on this oil where the oil was shot by 18,000 miles.

There was a member on BITOG who ran Amsoil 15,000 miles and his valvetrain was all incrusted with junk, he regrets leaving Amsoil in for that long of a time. He tried arx to clean the valvetrain up, and nothing happened, so now he is trying a product called Kreen.

Motor Oil's are changing again since many will have to meet the new GF-5 rating, I cannot take a chance on Amsoil meeting that spec. I have noticed that Amsoil will not clean up any deposits in an engine, but it will keep new deposits from forming, I base this on my observations from using there oil. We are now finding that oil's like Pennzoil Platinum do a better job in cleaning up an engine than Amsoil Motor Oil and they are cheaper too.

I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells, I think Amsoil would be better served by having potential buyers visit there website, place there order, and then it can be shipped out from the nearest Amsoil Distribution Center. All of the information about Amsoil Products is on there website. Amsoil could also sell there oil via special order from places like CarQuest, where I ordered my Redline SI.

Some of these Amsoil Dealers are giving the company a bad name, and they are bad mouthing other oil's and pushing certain Amsoil Products over what is best for there customers, alot of these dealers know hardly anything about the product and they do not let the product sell themselves, and some of them will say anything to get your money out of your hands so they can put it in there pocket.
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Originally posted by Big Bear:
There is no doubt that Amsoil makes some great products, there trans fluid, diff fluid, and powersteering fluid are great products, but I have a hard time believing any of there tests, I see them only posting data that is going to make there products look favorable.
Their comparison testing is done by certified independent labs using standard ASTM test methods which can be easily reproduced by their competitors. Yet none of them ever challenge the data in 38 years. They would if they could. They have likely run their own tests and see the same results that AMSOIL publishes. That is why I believe the tests. I wish the other oil companies would do similar test comparisons. I think this forces all to make better products and informs the consumer. Much better than talking engines, sludge falling from the sky, robots adding oil, etc.

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Originally posted by Big Bear:As far as being a dealer, it seems that anyone can become a dealer, it would be nice if Amsoil would give some sort of test for anyone that wants to be a dealer, how can you tell if what they are saying is correct,
Actually, they do if you want to become T1 certified as I am. They also have to approve and authorize your dealer website. They provide lots of online training, 7,000 pages of technical information on the website, and formal classroom training.
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Originally posted by Big Bear: I also see some Amsoil Dealers pushing other products and overhyping Amsoil. I also have a big problem with any Amsoil Dealer who is not really using there products, and instead they are going down to Wal-Mart and using the cheapest oil they can get there hands on.
What other products do AMSOIL dealers push? Wix, Donaldson, Mann-Hummel, NGK, Mother's, Injen and Trico are business partners with AMSOIL, so maybe you are referring to those? AMSOIL dealers are free to sell or use any product they want. I've exclusively used AMSOIL products since I became a Preferred Customer 7 years ago.

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Originally posted by Big Bear:I also do not buy Amsoil being an extended drain oil, the only time you can extend your OCI is if you are doing alot of highway driving and not doing the short trip soccer mom thing. I saw a Synthetic Oil Life Study where Amsoil motor oil's started to thicken up after 7000 miles. I believe Amsoil is catering to people who just do not want to do the normal oil changes, and in the long run many people who do extended drains will pay the price.
. Some oil companies only warranty their oil for up to 3,000 to 4,000 miles or 3 or 4 months, where AMSOIL warrants theirs for 7500 to 35,000 miles and 6 months to a year. And for severe non-highway mileage 7500 to 17,500 miles of soccer mom driving which is also extending the OCI. AMSOIL has had their extended drain oils for 38 years and has never caused an oil related failure, and offers a free warranty if it ever does. That's enough proof for me.

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Originally posted by Big Bear:I do not buy that Amsoil 100% Synthetic Oil can go 25,000 miles, I have seen UOA's on this oil where the oil was shot by 18,000 miles.
Could you please post? Was it the first time the oil was used, was it over 12 months, was severe driving involved?

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Originally posted by Big Bear:There was a member on BITOG who ran Amsoil 15,000 miles and his valvetrain was all incrusted with junk, he regrets leaving Amsoil in for that long of a time. He tried arx to clean the valvetrain up, and nothing happened, so now he is trying a product called Kreen.
Did he use the recommended oil and follow the recommended oil change interval? Did he have a mechanical issue that was involved such as a coolant leak, faulty emissions system, was he using oil additives, the proper oil filter for 15,000 miles, did he contact AMSOIL corporate?

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Originally posted by Big Bear:Motor Oil's are changing again since many will have to meet the new GF-5 rating, I cannot take a chance on Amsoil meeting that spec. I have noticed that Amsoil will not clean up any deposits in an engine, but it will keep new deposits from forming, I base this on my observations from using there oil. We are now finding that oil's like Pennzoil Platinum do a better job in cleaning up an engine than Amsoil Motor Oil and they are cheaper too.
AMSOIL has met all the specs they say they do for 38 years. And they warranty their oil should it not. What chance are you taking? AMSOIL cleaned up my 1997 Chevy Venture minivan when it suffered from the infamous intake manifold gasket leak. It also cleaned up the oil sight glass on my BMW K1200LT. Where do you see that Pennzoil Platinum does a better job in cleaning up an engine than AMSOIL? This oil comparison https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1971.pdf shows Pennzoil Platinum did worse than AMSOIL in all 6 ASTM tests, including TFOUT, volatility, TBN which all indicate better cleaning ability than Pennzoil Platinum.

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Originally posted by Big Bear: I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells, I think Amsoil would be better served by having potential buyers visit there website, place there order, and then it can be shipped out from the nearest Amsoil Distribution Center. All of the information about Amsoil Products is on there website. Amsoil could also sell there oil via special order from places like CarQuest, where I ordered my Redline SI.
What is this Pyramid Scheme you talk about? Pyramid Schemes have been illegal for quite some time and AMSOIL has been in business for 38 years, with no complaints from any government or consumer agency that investigates pyramid schemes. Where do you get this $2 a quart figure? Potential buyers DO visit the AMSOIL website and place their orders and ship it from the nearest AMSOIL distribution center. I have a CarQuest store that has carried AMSOIL, as do a few of my NAPA and O'Reilly stores. Lot's of choices. I provide AMSOIL to nearly 200 retail stores in the US and Canada.

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Originally posted by Big Bear: Some of these Amsoil Dealers are giving the company a bad name, and they are bad mouthing other oil's and pushing certain Amsoil Products over what is best for there customers, alot of these dealers know hardly anything about the product and they do not let the product sell themselves, and some of them will say anything to get your money out of your hands so they can put it in there pocket.
The vast majority of the AMSOIL dealers I know do not fit in this category. Actually, I am not aware of any that do. And those that do probably won't be in business very long.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, as far as the UOA on Amsoil at 18,000 miles, I found that information on BITOG in the UOA Section.

The member on BITOG that went 15,000 miles on Amsoil and had junk in the Valvetrain, I found the post on BITOG in the Oil Additive Section. I did read that this Amsoil user did mostly short trip driving. Maybe there was another problem, he could have had a clogged PCV Valve.

Tim, maybe you are an honest Amsoil Dealer, my post was not aimed at you personally, you may be just like my Amsoil Dealer who only uses Amsoil Products and does not try and push product.

I did have a member on BITOG, who Pmed me and he is an Amsoil Dealer, and he was getting tired of certain Amsoil Dealers on that site making claims about Amsoil with no concrete proof, he also uses some Redline Products, and he thinks there are instances where there are some products from Redline that are better than some Amsoil products and vice versa, I do value what he is saying since he is a Ford Master Mechanic.

I have also had other members from BITOG PM Me and they have spoken with some Amsoil Dealers and they are sick and tired of hearing these dealers bash other motor oil's.

I am sure you have many happy Amsoil Customers since you probably let the product sell itself.

All of my thoughts that I post here come from reading new and old posts on BITOG as well as my correspondence with members via PM.

If you think my rant was aimed at you personally, that is not the case. I did enjoy reading your post and look foward to a frinedly debate.
No problem Big Bear. I get a kick out of some of the internet information on AMSOIL. I don't know if they truly believe it, just want to argue, or are just misinformed. I just try to clear things up if I see erroneous AMSOIL info posted. If you ever have a question or concern, go by the info on the official AMSOIL corporate website www.amsoil.com for the correct information on AMSOIL or call the AMSOIL technical hotline listed on the website. I don't think there are any bad oils as long as you follow the recommendations listed by the vehicle manufacturer and the oil company. But there seems to only be one oil that has stood the test of time for warranted extended oil change intervals. That is why I use it. It saves me time and money. And that's why people buy it.
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Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
No problem Big Bear. I get a kick out of some of the internet information on AMSOIL. I don't know if they truly believe it, just want to argue, or are just misinformed. I just try to clear things up if I see erroneous AMSOIL info posted. If you ever have a question or concern, go by the info on the www.amsoil.com website for the correct information on AMSOIL website or call the AMSOIL technical hotline listed on the website. I don't think there are any bad oils as long as you follow the recommendations listed by the vehicle manufacturer and the oil company. But there seems to only be one oil that has stood the test of time for warranted extended oil change intervals. That is why I use it. It saves me time and money. And that's why people buy it.


Tim, I reread this whole thread and it seems you have been in business for about 6 years or so. It would be nice if you joined us on BITOG, but I think you may already be a member.

I hope you understand why there is some skepticism towards Amsoil, and it maybe unfair, but on BITOG we did have an oil additive that was once a sponsor and we found out it did not live up to the claims. Again, everything I post is not something that I makeup in my head, I like to base my response on products from my observations as well as others.

I can also remember when Mobil 1 was recommending extended drains back in the late 1970's or early 1980's and they stopped doing this becuase some people were having engine failures, they were not checking there oil level from what I remember. I am hoping that any of your Amsoil Customers as well as other Amsoil Customers who do extended drains are at least checking there oil level once a month or every 2 weeks or so. I always check my oil level once a week, it might be anal, and sometimes the oil level is fine and other times I may have to add a few ounces of oil.
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Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

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And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.




Yes I'll use non certified RL over Amsoil because it is a better product. I have no doubts at all about RL oil.

Amsoil's writings about their defective filters doesn't cut it either. If there wasn't a problem they wouldn't have to redesign them would they? Not enough testing to make a blanket statement, seems the real testing was done at the expense of the car owners. No one knows just how much damage was done, just as long as the engine don't knock! Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......

These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?

T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. A family friend was an Amsoil dealer, I'm still not impressed. If I call RL I get to talk to a respected expert in the industry, Amsoil it will be the luck of the draw.

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