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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

From http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf

"Method
The testing by which the gear lubes were evaluated was done in accordance with American Society for Testing and
Materials (ASTM) procedures, Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J306 requirements and Federal Test Method
Standards.Other than the oxidation filter patch procedure, performance testing was conducted by an independent labora-
tory.Physical-property testing (viscosity, viscosity index, pour point and foaming after oxidation) was conducted in-house.
A notarized affidavit certifying that the results are accurately reported is included in Appendix 1. Gear lube pricing was
obtained from the manufacturers or distributors, and a notarized affidavit certifying that those prices are reported as
obtained is included in Appendix 2."

Polaris and Lubrizol labs did the gear oil performance tests according to Darrin at AMSOIL tech support.

The test results can (and likely were) be reproduced by the named competitors since batches were named and the standard tests were listed. None of the results have been proven incorrect by anyone even though the results have been published for 2 years. Until anyone can prove the results are not correct, then they stand. I'm sure the named competitors would have disputed the results if they were not correct, but they haven't.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1896784&page=1

This Thread has 241 replies and 7163 views.

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.

Since Amsoil owns Oil Analyzers I cannot see Oil Analyzers being unbiased, remember who signs there checks.

So the guy at Amsoil gets your oil sample, and drives 2 miles to Oil Analyzers, and says we have a Warranty Claim, and he tells him, you know what to do, which is make that Oil Analysis look good so we do not have to pay on the Warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Yes Tim I did, I offered my opinion and the opinion of my father, and mechanics, and machinists we know, we tried both products. I also added I hoped I didn't get flamed. Shortly after the national guard, you jumped in, defending, pitching, selling, quoting, copying and pasting. Yes I started it, but wasn't singling you out, you decided to dive in.
Again let's look at the facts. After your posts about AMSOIL, all I did was list a gear oil white paper without commentary, and asked if Red Line had a written warranty, which they don't post on their website. Then you began your diatribe about why you don't like AMSOIL. Plus your BS about how a dealer has a right to void the warranty (wrong, only the manufacturer can do that). And that the oil has to be API certified (it doesn't, certification is voluntary and optional). If you wouldn't be wrong all the time, I wouldn't have to correct you.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.

My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.

Some of these reps will tell you exactly what you want to hear. No RL reps here attacking, defending, or pushing. Sorry guys, but that's how I see it in a lot of these threads, and it gets old man.

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quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: How about that compressor oil thread Tim?


How about it? I answered his question in my second post.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Again let's look at the facts. After your posts about AMSOIL, all I did was list a gear oil white paper without commentary, and asked if Red Line had a warranty. Then you began your diatribe about why you don't like AMSOIL.


The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.
What on earth makes you think it was bogus? Brand names given, batch designations given, standard test protocols used than any lab can duplicate. Notarized affidavits given. Undisputed test results by the named competitors or anyone else in 2 years. No lawsuits for false claims or advertising. What else do you want? Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.
Ford also has to prove the AMSOIL oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.
quote:
Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?


Actually, I am happy that Amsoil did better than Redline Gear Oil, I use Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.

I am not happy to find out that Amsoil owns a lab that does all kinds of oil analysis work and now I cannot believe any of there numbers on any of there tests that are on the Amsoil Website.

I use Amsoil Gear Lube, and I use Amsoil ATF, and I also use there Powersteering Fluid and Greases, I know they are good products based on my observations, so I do not need any tests thrown in my face.

My trans shifts the smoothest with Amsoil ATF.
No problems with using Amsoil Gear Oil.
Amsoil Powersteering Fluid works better than Redline Powersteering Fluid, I have used both and the Amsoil fluid is better.

As far as motor oil, I just like Pennzoil Platinum better than Amsoil Motor Oil.

I do not need tests and sales pitchs shoved down my throat, how hard is it for you to let Amsoil Products sell themselves.

I did mention Amsoil and Redline gear Oil, but a respected guy who sells Amsoil said they were both good, pick one and be happy is what he told me.

Transmission = Amsoil
Powersteering = Amsoil
Differential = Amsoil
Engine = Pennzoil Platinum

I may even end up using Amsoil Brake Fluid, but I do not need a sales pitch or a Link.
Why not visit Bitog, a dealer service guy weighed in, seems to go along with what quite a few of us are saying here.

Remember something Tim, you are a salesman selling Amsoil, your job is to sell. A dealer can opt to deny a warranty claim if he feels there is something other than a defect to blame. He can and will call in a company rep to check and either allow the repair or deny it, all the while the car sits. If you think in the event of an engine failure Amsoil will pay and the car will be back on the road in no time flat you are dreaming. Amosil will want proof their product was to blame, and fight like hell to defend the product.

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http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1896784&page=2


#1902298 - 05/25/10 02:07 PM Re: Reason NOT to use Amsoil [Re: SteveSRT8]
NHHEMI


Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 1931
Loc: NH Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.

I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.
quote:
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.


Not so simple, now I am going to pay another lab like Blackstone to run a test, read the Warranty, if you fail to follow anything that Amsoil requests, the Warranty is Voided by Amsoil.

I do not have the time or money to take Amsoil and Ford to court over a Warranty Claim that both will find a way out of, its just much easier to follow what the owner's manual says about OCI's.

I was not born yesterday, give me a break, and you think Ford is going to test the oil, can you provided any documentation proving that Ford would do this, or is this another one of your claims to get Amsoil off the hook.

Ford has there own lawyers, they are not going to lay down, they will fight tooth and nail.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?


Actually, I am happy that Amsoil did better than Redline Gear Oil, I use Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.

I am not happy to find out that Amsoil owns a lab that does all kinds of oil analysis work and now I cannot believe any of there numbers on any of there tests that are on the Amsoil Website.
AMSOIL has their own in house lab for quality control, product testing and development. Oil Analyzers does their customers oil analysis. Because of this, AMSOIL has more used oil analyses at their disposal than any other oil company. I'm sure they use this data to uncover any weaknesses in their formulation and to make better products. Oil Analyzers, nor the AMSOIL lab do not do any of the performance tests in their comparisons with other products. SouthWest Research Institute and other independent labs do this and AMSOIL publishes the data. I wish the other oil companies would do this, but they do not seem to want to compare the quality of their products to that of others.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I use Amsoil Gear Lube, and I use Amsoil ATF, and I also use there Powersteering Fluid and Greases, I know they are good products based on my observations, so I do not need any tests thrown in my face.

My trans shifts the smoothest with Amsoil ATF.
No problems with using Amsoil Gear Oil.
Amsoil Powersteering Fluid works better than Redline Powersteering Fluid, I have used both and the Amsoil fluid is better.

As far as motor oil, I just like Pennzoil Platinum better than Amsoil Motor Oil.

I do not need tests and sales pitchs shoved down my throat, how hard is it for you to let Amsoil Products sell themselves.

I did mention Amsoil and Redline gear Oil, but a respected guy who sells Amsoil said they were both good, pick one and be happy is what he told me.

Transmission = Amsoil
Powersteering = Amsoil
Differential = Amsoil
Engine = Pennzoil Platinum

I may even end up using Amsoil Brake Fluid, but I do not need a sales pitch or a Link.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why not visit Bitog, a dealer service guy weighed in, seems to go along with what quite a few of us are saying here.
What did he say?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Remember something Tim, you are a salesman selling Amsoil, your job is to sell. A dealer can opt to deny a warranty claim if he feels there is something other than a defect to blame.
Please show where a dealer can deny a warranty claim. He can't. He didn't make the vehicle, or write the warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: He can and will call in a company rep to check and either allow the repair or deny it, all the while the car sits.
That is not AMSOIL's fault.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: If you think in the event of an engine failure Amsoil will pay and the car will be back on the road in no time flat you are dreaming. Amosil will want proof their product was to blame, and fight like hell to defend the product.
The bottom line is that no vehicle manufacture will say that using AMSOIL will void their warranty if AMSOIL has a product that meets their recommendations, and that AMSOIL has never voided a warranty, and that AMSOIL has never failed in 38 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.


Not so simple, now I am going to pay another lab like Blackstone to run a test, read the Warranty, if you fail to follow anything that Amsoil requests, the Warranty is Voided by Amsoil.
Nothing wrong with that. I've never found any consumer or government complaints on the AMSOIL warranty process.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I do not have the time or money to take Amsoil and Ford to court over a Warranty Claim that both will find a way out of, its just much easier to follow what the owner's manual says about OCI's.
I've never heard of that happening with AMSOIL, have you? And what happens if the oil fails and you follow the OM OCI's? It is not the vehicle manufacturers fault, they proved the oil failed. It gets them off the hook.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I was not born yesterday, give me a break, and you think Ford is going to test the oil, can you provided any documentation proving that Ford would do this, or is this another one of your claims to get Amsoil off the hook.
Just ask Ford. I've heard it is standard operating procedure for a vehicle or equipment manufacturer to test the oil if oil failure is likely. It gets them off the hook if the oil is to blame, since they only warranty for manufacturing defects, not oil related failures.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Ford has there own lawyers, they are not going to lay down, they will fight tooth and nail.
Exactly. That is why it pays to have a company like AMSOIL in your corner, that has never voided a warranty, the oil has never failed, and has paid a few claims for good will, PR and advertising, and then gone after the manufacturers for reimbursement. Some oil companies do not offer a written warranty, only warranty for up to 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts.
Tim, I am not buying anything you have said here, I am sure there has been Warranty Claims on Amsoil Motor Oil, but they have kept it quiet.

I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I am not buying anything you have said here, I am sure there has been Warranty Claims on Amsoil Motor Oil, but they have kept it quiet.
I guess you missed this on page 5:
AMSOIL stated in a Lubes 'n Greases article http://www.performanceoiltechn...allarticle_aug05.pdf Measuring up
“We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle
warranty claims per year,” reported Albert’s
son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice presi-
dent and chief operating officer. “We inves-
tigate each one comprehensively, examine
maintenance records, mileage, type of ser-
vice and repair invoices. We conduct
phone interviews and hire independent
expert investigators and engineers to
review failed parts and write an
Investigative Findings Report documenting
our results and send it to the claimant.
“Only in rare instances when we cannot
find an explanation for the problem, even
though the lubricant is not to blame, do
we accept a claim. Paid claims have
amounted to exactly two in the last two
years, which speaks volumes given the
quantity of oil we sell. It was later deter-
mined that both paid claims were ulti-
mately the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

A good article. Well worth reading if you would like to know more about the AMSOIL company.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.
Yet you offer no proof of any of your statements...

Look what happens when an oil company can not substantiate it's claims:

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e...398592.cfm?x=b11,0,w

I'm sure they and other companies would like to do the same to AMSOIL, but they never have...
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

Yet you offer no proof of any of your statements...


You have not offered any proof with your statements either, I believe what I believe, and as a customer to any company that sells oil that matters more than some salesman who works for a company that has to buy an Oil Analysis Lab to push there agenda.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
Typical Properties are averaged values of many samples for a specific formulation at the time. Values produced at AMSOIL Quality Assurance Lab. The Oil Analyzers analysis is a one time analysis of one sample that may or may not be the exact same formulation and raw materials that AMSOIL reported for Typical Properties. The data sheet is dated Feb. 2010 and may be an improved version of the 0w20. Your sample was early 2008 or perhaps earlier. OAI might have used slightly different test methods than the AMSOIL QA lab.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.

Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.



WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.



WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.



Lab tests don't mean much to me when a company like Amsoil has their own lab run the tests. Mobil OTOH actually shows tear downs, plenty over the years. Not too many for Amsoil though. Too costly, and I don't think it would show value for them over another brand of oil. So its best they stand clear of them, or do as few as possible.

The proof is in the numbers and measurements. You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
Typical Properties are averaged values of many samples for a specific formulation at the time. Values produced at AMSOIL Quality Assurance Lab. The Oil Analyzers analysis is a one time analysis of one sample that may or may not be the exact same formulation and raw materials that AMSOIL reported for Typical Properties. The data sheet is dated Feb. 2010 and may be an improved version of the 0w20. Your sample was early 2008 or perhaps earlier. OAI might have used slightly different test methods than the AMSOIL QA lab.


Since I paid for the VOA I think I can comment. OAI had started using Polaris for all their UOA work at the time of this VOA so it is not in house, it is Polaris. I have used Polaris for other oil samples as well, besides Amsoil.

If you go back and check allot of VOA's do not match the printed starting TBN when tested via UOA test criteria. The ASTM method is not neccessarily the same. There are entire threads about the issue in the past. I have also found that Polaris Indy has shown a lower vis on initial runs 5 out of 6 times. When I have had samples re-run they are more in line and as expected. A vis of 8.7 out of 9 I was not even concerned over at the time. If there where multiple VOA's and UOA's with a continuously low vis then I would throw a red flag.

Same oil when tested for UOA had a TBN of 6.35 at 10k miles. Only a 3.5 point drop over 10k miles is really very good. This engine has been using up TBN typically at a minimum of 1 point per 1k miles on other oils.

I do realize TBN depletion is not linear.
HERE ARE ALL OF THE REALLY DUMB,AND NEGATIVE QUOTES ON THIS THREAD


Big Bear quoted

It was so overboard that it made Synlube look good, I always thought the Synlube thread on here was the worst I had ever read, But I have to say that one Renegade Amsoil Salesman has made this the worst thread I have ever read on this board.

a mediocre synthetic such as amzoil

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

Amsoil will not pay anything, read there Warranty, there are too many loopholes for them to get out of paying.

Bear,those are called clauses...every warranty has them for people who try to cheat the warranty.
Warranties from Amsoil mean nothing to me since I know they will find a way to deny them.

I don't care about warranties since the manufactures can wiggle there way out of them, and I do not care about Amsoil's independent tests that just seem to make there oil's look good,

Nobody here is buying this bogus SALES PITCH of independent ASTM testing, there WARRANTY is a joke, I have read it, and all it does is protect Amsoil.


I am sure if I was using Synlube and I said my motor seemed to run better that you would not be questioning me.

Trajan quotes

Can't even explain why his buddy isn't using simlube in that new truck. Despite all the posts defending it.

miroslav kefurt and his minions?

ps, better RL or Amsoil than swill...synlube any day.

Poor Miro. Booted off of so many boards....

So much for all that pro synlube nonsense....

So simlube like...

So why have you yet to do that with that simlube.

or especially, synlube,

It's like talking to synlubbers............

Tim has the kirk thread reading problem.

If I had to chose between Amsoil or Symlube,

Amazing how a simple Redline thread turns into a Amsoil infomercial.

So simlube like..... Tim has the kirk thread reading problem. doesn't go much past the first post or two.
You know what? I have to supress a mouth full of bile for actually finding this:
Yeah, just like simlube "facts". Lots of cheerleading. Little substance.


AD QUOTED

Series 2000 is a grease, you add that to your engine?

In English: They'll try their best not to pay out There are a lot of reckless statements Tim made, many which would put a warranty on a new vehicle in jepardy.


If you take Amsoil's recommendations at face value, you are taking a chance

I'll pass on the Russian Roulette, with 3 bullets in the gun.

Truth is to even mention Amsoil on the same page as Synlube is just so very wrong!

How convient, just like the 4 ball test. LOL Amsoil is not responsible for previously used lubricants. A nice back door out if you ask me.

LOL I'll drink that Amsoil Kool Aid before the Rat Poison Synlube.

If you believe you have Amsoil in your corner, and you believe in 38 years they never had an oil related problem, again you are taking a chance

I WON'T USE AMSOIL ANYMORE! Nada, no way, no cigar! Amsoil. No thanks!

I don't believe in the product, and won't sell it. Remember Amsoil hides their claims, so I ain't buying your 38 year perfect history story.



BIG BEAR QUOTED

The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

I am not buying it, sorry, I have been around too long, pal. I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I believe what I believe, Sorry, I can no longer believe anything that Amsoil prints out.

Tim has now turned Amsoil into Synlube,

I think there oil's will keep an engine cleaner than Amsoil's motor oil's. I believe Amsoil's oil's are kind of old school,

I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells,


I will not believe any article about Amsoil, even if it is written by Reader's Digest or any other magazine, they no longer have any CREDIBILITY with me and many others.

ADF1 QUOTED

Lubes and Greases magazine while informative is not to be taken as Gospel. They sat down with someone from Amsoil, and printed what they were told, wow.

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. LOL...... Another shameless Amsoil plug.

I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all

The company is far from perfect.

Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO

Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.


You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.

These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims.



WELL GUYS.........TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY THINK!..................
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


WELL GUYS.........TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY THINK!..................


I can't say what I really think Kirk, I might get a time out, and what fun would that be? I bet you can figure it out though.

Truth is there isn't enough bandwidth to quote all the Dumb and Negative quotes you made.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

I can't say what I really think Kirk, I might get a time out, and what fun would that be? I bet you can figure it out though.


Hey AD...what I have figured out..... you are spot on with your remark...saying....."I can't say what I really think Kirk"

That,I have known all along,you really don't think,do you? HERE IS MORE PROOF!

AD QUOTED..........."Truth is there isn't enough bandwidth to quote all the Dumb and Negative quotes you made".

AD........I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GIVE JUST ONE!!!! THE FACTS/TRUTH I POSTED DON'T COUNT! GOOD LUCK WITH THE IMPOSSIBLE TASK OF FINDING WHAT DOESN'T EXIST AS YOU CLAIM!!

AD
Last edited by captainkirk
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.
Why do you think the AMSOIL number is not all that good? How does Edge, Toyota, and Honda blow it away? Their viscosity is a little lower, thus "thinner" and has less film strength to separate moving parts. Do you often start your car at 40C (104F)? And it only sees 40C for only a few seconds as the engine warms up.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.
So?
quote:
WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.


Kirk, I agree with ya on this statement, has Amsoil showed us pics inside engines, no.

I will say that at least Synlube doesn't have to go out and buy a Lab to make there product look good.

My problem with Amsoil is with there business practices and a ROGUE Amsoil Salesman who has made the company look bad in my eyes, that's just how I see it, if I were an Amsoil Dealer I would not even be in this THREAD.

I do not see Mobil or Pennzoil pushing tests in my face, but I am sure seeing it here with Amsoil. I do not need to hear the line " We have had no warranty claims with our oil in 38 years, that's the past.

Amsoil may have made a great Motor Oil back in the 1970's through the late 1990's but everyone is catching up and surpassing them, I am willing to bet none of there oil's will meet the new GF-5 Specs.

I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.
Here is one with a 409,000 mile oil change interval: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf . Do you have a similar one?
Here is a Chevy gas delivery van with 30,000 mile oil change intervals torn down at 930,599 miles: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2578.pdf . Do you have a similar one?
Here is a garbage truck with 8,000 hours: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf Do you have a similar comparison?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc.
How were those I posted above?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.
Kinda of like a Tootsie Pop. We may never know.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lab tests don't mean much to me when a company like Amsoil has their own lab run the tests.
You think the other oil companies don't use their own labs to run tests?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Mobil OTOH actually shows tear downs, plenty over the years.
Feel free to share. Do any compare with the oil change intervals and miles as the ones I've shown?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Not too many for Amsoil though. Too costly, and I don't think it would show value for them over another brand of oil. So its best they stand clear of them, or do as few as possible.
If those were not enough, I'll be glad to provide more.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: The proof is in the numbers and measurements. You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.
I agree. It seems AMSOIL provides more proof in numbers and measurements than the others. About 7,000 pages of information on their website. Compare to the others.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Can't even explain why his buddy isn't using simlube in that new truck. Despite all the posts defending it.


Trajan, sometimes you show yourself to be dumb as dirt.

Capt. Kirk doesn't have to explain why "his buddy" isn't using Synlube simply because you say so. Again Trajan, you are as dumb as dirt. I'm going to answer your stupid remark this once. The oil must be changed every 8 000 kms max.

Do you understand now?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I will say that at least Synlube doesn't have to go out and buy a Lab to make there product look good.



They have their own pet lab for that.


Thank you for correcting me.

I don't think anyone would want to be an Amsoil Rep after reading this THREAD.


Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.
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