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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajan

So,show us where and when those law firms shot down someone using Amsoil............or even......synlube.

By the way,I live on the east coast,just like you do trajan,and only use Amsoil.......and synlube as a customer only. I don't own or sell amsoil,or synlube. My garage/equipment is full of those products. Why Does that bother you??

My name is Kirk,not Miro. I don't live on the west coast like Miro,and I only have one Screen name unlike some of you.


Kirk, I'm sure you have noticed that Trajan starts name calling when he's backed into a corner. I.e., inferring that you are Miro. Dumb as dirt doesn't quite fit. Ignorant does.
Last edited by inhaliburton
quote:
Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.


BMW: The Ultimate Driving Machine


You sure don't see Gary Allan or Pablo going overboard about Amsoil in there posts, ya notice that they are not even participating in this THREAD, probably because the title of this THREAD is " I think I'm sticking with Redline "
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

Amsoil may have made a great Motor Oil back in the 1970's through the late 1990's but everyone is catching up and surpassing them, I am willing to bet none of there oil's will meet the new GF-5 Specs.
So where are their oils formulated for, recommended for and warranted for 35,000 mile oil change intervals and beyond? They still haven't caught up to AMSOIL who has made 25,000 mile motor oils for 38 years! Many of the others are still 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts. Why did they lose 20% of the overall market last year, while AMSOIL had record sales? How much are you willing to bet that none of AMSOIL's oils will meet the new GF-5 specs?

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.
Any proof?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.
Why do you think the AMSOIL number is not all that good? How does Edge, Toyota, and Honda blow it away? Their viscosity is a little lower, thus "thinner" and has less film strength to separate moving parts. Do you often start your car at 40C (104F)? And it only sees 40C for only a few seconds as the engine warms up.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.
So?


The warming up process takes about 20 minutes during winter Tim. Sometimes a few times a day, for many drivers, that is when the most wear occurs. That thicker when cold oil is not as good as you think it is. You should know that though. But you have to do your best to push Amsoil, leaving out some important facts.

There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. Some pretty long OCI's too. Mobil 1 has done tests with teearing engines down. All you are showing us is more of Amsoils sales literature. Its getting old.

Stop and go soccer mom driving is what tires out an engine. Start it up and run it without shutting it down it will last forever. I'm still not impressed.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!


So far all we heard about sinlube is what you and tell us. When you reach 250,000 miles and sell one of your cars to someone who uses it for a few years more let me know. IIRC you haven't hit 200K yet.

I'm 3000 miles away from you Kirk, and quite honestly if I lived around the block I wouldn't waste my time with you.

You say LIFE IS GOOD. FOR ME LIFE IS GREAT. I'm smart enough to see a con job a mile away. That keeps me in the money!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

The warming up process takes about 20 minutes during winter Tim. Sometimes a few times a day, for many drivers, that is when the most wear occurs. That thicker when cold oil is not as good as you think it is. You should know that though.
Again, why do you think the 40C (104F) viscosity number is so important? It is only 1 viscosity at 1 temperature. You must have hot winters. The oil would only be at 40C for about 15 seconds during warm up. Too thick is not good, too thin is not either. Do you have any proof that the other oils 40C viscosity offers better protection as you infer?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. Some pretty long OCI's too.
Please post.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Mobil 1 has done tests with teearing engines down.
Please post all the ones comparable to the ones AMSOIL has done.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: All you are showing us is more of Amsoils sales literature. Its getting old.
You stated that you wanted to see AMSOIL's tear down tests and that's what I provided. Now you complain?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Stop and go soccer mom driving is what tires out an engine. Start it up and run it without shutting it down it will last forever. I'm still not impressed.
Reference please. You really think soccer mom driving is harder on oil and engine than a garbage truck that spends most of it's time at redline?
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?

That was different, right?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.


Right on, Kirk! Remember the page-after-page of ranting re Synlube's viscosity? They went on and on about it for weeks. Trajan has mentioned it in this thread. What nonsense. They constantly show their ignorance.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.

Any proof?


I actually do have proof, I saved my old Rocker Arms and Pushrods, all I need to do is take some pictures and I will gladly e-mail them to anyone who is interested.

Little bit of history on this car, when I bought it at 25,000 miles I used Mobil 1 from 25K to 200 K

I then used Amsoil from 200K up until 360K

I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.

I am sure you are going to say that if I had started using Amsoil at 25K instead of Mobil 1 that I would still have the original rocker arms and pushrods and they would look perfect.

My old rocker arms and pushrods have some grime on them that Mobil 1 and Amsoil failed to keep clean or clean up.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD


How is one supposed to prove that?

From what I've been reading, a few on here keep throwing stuff at Tim who has responded intelligently and with authority. He has shot down every volley shot at him. He's not pitching Amsoil at all. He's merely answering question that can and has been verified. I don't understand why any of you dare to call him a troll and and a pitch man. I don't see where he needs any of your business. He seems to be doing very well, thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD


How is one supposed to prove that?

From what I've been reading, a few on here keep throwing stuff at Tim who has responded intelligently and with authority. He has shot down every volley shot at him. He's not pitching Amsoil at all. He's merely answering question that can and has been verified. I don't understand why any of you dare to call him a troll and and a pitch man. I don't see where he needs any of your business. He seems to be doing very well, thank you.


Reason NOT to use Amsoil [Re: demarpaint]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39376
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com

It sure seems like Pablo does not think well of Tim, and he is an Amsoil Dealer.


Maybe Pablo will come over and join the DISCUSSION, we need a real Amsoil Salesman.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.


BMW: The Ultimate Driving Machine


You sure don't see Gary Allan or Pablo going overboard about Amsoil in there posts, ya notice that they are not even participating in this THREAD, probably because the title of this THREAD is " I think I'm sticking with Redline "


Very true. IIRC, I've even seen them recommend oils other than Amsoil in some threads.

Yeah, they're Amsoil reps. But they know it can stand on its own.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.

Any proof?


I actually do have proof, I saved my old Rocker Arms and Pushrods, all I need to do is take some pictures and I will gladly e-mail them to anyone who is interested.
Sure. Post them here if you can.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Little bit of history on this car, when I bought it at 25,000 miles I used Mobil 1 from 25K to 200 K

I then used Amsoil from 200K up until 360K

I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.

I am sure you are going to say that if I had started using Amsoil at 25K instead of Mobil 1 that I would still have the original rocker arms and pushrods and they would look perfect.
Maybe. Valvoline and Castrol state 4 and 8 times less wear than Mobil 1 in their ads. I've only seen clean, unworn engines with AMSOIL.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:My old rocker arms and pushrods have some grime on them that Mobil 1 and Amsoil failed to keep clean or clean up.
Were those splash lubed? And Pennzoil cleaned them?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!


So far all we heard about sinlube is what you and tell us. When you reach 250,000 miles and sell one of your cars to someone who uses it for a few years more let me know. IIRC you haven't hit 200K yet.

I'm 3000 miles away from you Kirk, and quite honestly if I lived around the block I wouldn't waste my time with you.

You say LIFE IS GOOD. FOR ME LIFE IS GREAT. I'm smart enough to see a con job a mile away. That keeps me in the money!

AD


Yep. What was that he said? Oh yeah "Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof."

Haven't seen it for this simlube yet.
quote:
I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.


Tim, I have new Rocker Arms and Pushrods on the car now, I saved the old rocker arms and pushrods.

Yes, my Valvetrain gets splash fed, I think the reason my rocker arms were worn was probably because I had some junk in the lifters that was not letting enough oil get too the Top End of the Motor. JMO
quote:
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Thu June 03 2010 10:19 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?



@ Inhaliburton....Uuuh you have me confused with someone else, I have never posted any pics here at all...Get your accusations straight before you post them...
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?

That was different, right?

Well?


Yes, it is different. Especially as the thread you claim he started does not exsist.

It's this one: https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995/m/242104424 that has my pic in it.

Now, if you had bothered to read, you would see that it was Deltona Dave that started said thread. I know, I know, they sound alike.

If you had bothered to read it, it was your boy kirk who went off on yet another tangent that went nowhere.

So ummm, where exactly is this phantom thread started by kirk that I posted a picture in?
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
quote:
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Thu June 03 2010 10:19 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?



@ Inhaliburton....Uuuh you have me confused with someone else, I have never posted any pics here at all...Get your accusations straight before you post them...


Don't worry Nuc. He's a bald face liar. There is no such thread started by kirk. He made it up.

The feckless troll suffers from diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
Last edited by trajan
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. At every tick of the thermometer on up till it reaches operating temps.

In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common. The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C. That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.


Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406



AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. [
So you think all oil viscosities chart in a straight line linear fashion from 10C and lower to operating temperature? Do you have a graph showing this for all 4 oils? And proof that a slightly "thinner" oil film provides more protection than a slightly "thicker" oil film at all temperatures? Please post.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common.
a million times?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions?
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.

You worked on the Fuel Side when you were at Shell, not the Oil Side.


I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points.

I was not aware that I worked on the Fuel Side at Shell. As I have stated at least once before, I provided analytical and tech support for the "oil side". And I've had my own successful motor oil business for 6 years providing tech support to hundreds of my customers.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.


Sorry if you think I am in attack mode. I am not. I don't think I've attacked anyone since I was a linebacker. I'm just asking for data to back up his claims, just as others have asked me for data. I am not aware of "anecdotal testimony" on my part, unless I was asked for some. Please point that out. I try to back up any claims I make with data. I wasn't aware that I am dominating any threads. Mostly just answering questions and asking some of my own.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. [
So you think all oil viscosities chart in a straight line linear fashion from 10C and lower to operating temperature? Do you have a graph showing this for all 4 oils? And proof that a slightly "thinner" oil film provides more protection than a slightly "thicker" oil film at all temperatures? Please post. HOW ABOUT PROOF IT DOESN'T?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common.
a million times?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.

CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions?
ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.



Thanks johnpr3, I asked Tim for some proof, since most if not all his claims are "anecdotal testimony" he uses in defense. We'll throw it back into the circle. I want to see hard core facts not some garbage Amsoil thru together in some ad campaign, or home study guide they hand out for the $35 dealers fee.

AD
quote:
"anecdotal testimony"


The proof you offer is sales literature...simple as that. And over and over and over again. I'm sure you are a nice person in real life, but, the constant sales mode is not really appreciated on this board. I lose track of what the threads are about. They always end up about how Amsoil walks on water. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. How about starting your own Amsoil thread to share your information with those interested in finding out more about their products. I would check it.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.
I thought I already have. You cannot extrapolate a curve based on 1 or 2 data points. How is AMSOIL a bit behind the times? Can you prove you are right?


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
"anecdotal testimony"


The proof you offer is sales literature...simple as that.
Has anyone proven the sales literature is incorrect, like Castrol did to Royal Purple and Valvoline and Castrol did to Mobil 1 5w30?
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3: How about starting your own Amsoil thread to share your information with those interested in finding out more about their products. I would check it.
There is one on AMSOIL New Car warranty, AMSOIL filters and AMSOIL SSO (0w30)
Tim, all of us here are customers to whatever oil brand we buy, we are going to chose oil's that we like, and we do not have to provide any data to support why we are using a particular oil. I go by other people like myself who will offer me there observations on various oil's. I am not looking for a sales pitch and I could care less if Amsoil had some test that showed its product did better than the oil I am using.

I personally agree with AD about looking at the 40 Degree Celcius Number, I remember using 10W-30 in my engine since this is what it was speced for, so I tried a 5W-30 motor oil and the car seemed to run better, my observations are telling me that the thinner oil is getting to the moving parts quicker.

I have another car that is speced for 5W-20 and I will be following AD's advice and give the Castrol Edge 0W-20 a try during the winter time, I keep a log of my gas mileage so I will see how it does compared to the Amsoil 0W-20 that I used last winter.

Do I always agree with AD, NO, we both like different transmission fluids and I feel the trans fluid I use gives me the best shifting, I do not need some test from Amsoil to give me a reaon to use it, I use it based on my observations.

I have never asked AD for any proof about the products he has recommended too me, I trust his observations, and everything he has recommended has worked well for me, he is also not getting paid in anyway for the products that he has told me about.

Everything you tell us in this thread I have to question, because you are a Salesman for Amsoil whereas the rest of us are paying customers and car guys with no hidden AGENDA.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:


I personally agree with AD about looking at the 40 Degree Celcius Number, I remember using 10W-30 in my engine since this is what it was speced for, so I tried a 5W-30 motor oil and the car seemed to run better, my observations are telling me that the thinner oil is getting to the moving parts quicker.
Totally different. AD was talking about very slight differences in 0w20 viscosity at 104F and how he could extrapolate that data point to determine which oil offered the best cold winter start protection. A bit silly, don't you think? You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold weather starting. That is why SAE came up with those standards.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Everything you tell us in this thread I have to question, because you are a Salesman for Amsoil whereas the rest of us are paying customers and car guys with no hidden AGENDA.
I am also a paying customer, motorhome, motorcycle, sports car and minivan guy with no hidden AGENDA. And I welcome your questions. It gives us all a chance to learn from each other. There is so much bad info, myths, wives tales, untruths, etc., it gives me and others a chance to help clear those up.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also. CAN YOU PROVE IT WRONG?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.
I thought I already have. You cannot extrapolate a curve based on 1 or 2 data points. How is AMSOIL a bit behind the times? Can you prove you are right? YOU'RE THE SALESMAN, I'M A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER PROVE ME WRONG. WHY ARE THE OIL COMPANIES STRIVING FOR IT? SIMPLE TO REDUCE ENGINE WEAR.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF AMSOIL REPS GIVING BAD INFO THEN?
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF AMSOIL REPS GIVING BAD INFO THEN?
I don't know. I don't know who said what for sure. I'm not aware of any AMSOIL Dealers or employees giving bad info. I think you mentioned an example one time and it was actually correct information. Do you have another example? Not "he said, she said" but direct quotes in context?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.
quote:
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


I guess Amsoil Motor Oil will not be going up in price since they had RECORD sales last year.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


I guess Amsoil Motor Oil will not be going up in price since they had RECORD sales last year.

Unlike their competitors, AMSOIL has not implented nor announced a price increase nor customer allocations yet, but hinted at it a month or two ago.

Their last price increase was in September 2008. They reduced prices in the US in March and April 2009, and in Canada a few months ago.

I think since they are experiencing record sales, that they are able to get better bulk prices from their vendors, and their new blending and bottling facility is running more efficiently. And I think they have contracts with some of their base oil suppliers that they have to supply AMSOIL first, and their oil brands second. All of these factors should help keep price increases, if any, likely lower than their competitors IMHO.

Since there is a shortage of base oils now, and likely to get worse with the BP disaster in the Gulf, I would expect prices to go up even further and shortages more frequent until around the first of the year. Especially BP/Castrol.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


Amsoil will be soon to follow if that's the deal. I scored 5 qts of Edge with a Bosch Premium Plus Filter for $30, then had a $10 off coupon from AAP they honored. Guess it was the Uniform Smile. Can't beat those prices, grabbed some for me and the GF.

AD
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