Skip to main content

Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.




Yes I'll use non certified RL over Amsoil because it is a better product. I have no doubts at all about RL oil.

Amsoil's writings about their defective filters doesn't cut it either. If there wasn't a problem they wouldn't have to redesign them would they? Not enough testing to make a blanket statement, seems the real testing was done at the expense of the car owners. No one knows just how much damage was done, just as long as the engine don't knock! Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......

These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?

T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. A family friend was an Amsoil dealer, I'm still not impressed. If I call RL I get to talk to a respected expert in the industry, Amsoil it will be the luck of the draw.

AD


I think AD makes some good points, the only time an extended drain with Amsoil would not be a risk is if someone had a new car that they switched over to Amsoil at the 3000 mile mark. They could probably do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, those being the guy who lives a mile or so from the Interstate and travel 30 to 50 miles on the interstate to work and back. The same goes for these Amsoil EaO Oil Filters, you need a clean engine in order to run one of these filters for extended drains.

If you do call an Amsoil Dealer, it is true, you will get the luck of the draw, is he a real car guy who has vast knowledge about engines and motor oil's or is he a guy just doing this as a part time job without that much knowledge about cars.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......
AMSOIL looks to see if their oil was to blame. It never has been in 38 years. And if it is, it is covered by the AMSOIL warranty. AMSOIL uses a 3rd party to perform oil and parts analysis. You are free to use anyone you choose, as is the auto maker. Never been a problem in 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?
AMSOIL also has a filter warranty: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g300...rantyinformation.pdf .

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. AD
. It is only $35 for the optional 2 inch thick business manual and application guides and includes the T1 Certification Test which is sold at company cost. It has paid for itself several times over with the free leads that AMSOIL sends me. I've had open book tests in college. What is your point? I think the value of the test is that you have to find out how to use the manual to find the information you need to answer the questions. Then when customers ask questions, you know where to find the answers. More like a home study course than a test. But you still have to ace it.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:


I think AD makes some good points, the only time an extended drain with Amsoil would not be a risk is if someone had a new car that they switched over to Amsoil at the 3000 mile mark. They could probably do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, those being the guy who lives a mile or so from the Interstate and travel 30 to 50 miles on the interstate to work and back. The same goes for these Amsoil EaO Oil Filters, you need a clean engine in order to run one of these filters for extended drains.
AMSOIL does not have any requirements as to when you start using AMSOIL other than the engine be in good mechanical condition. Most of my customers started with much higher mileage engines and older vehicles. No problems. No risk. You can do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, or severe driving conditions. If you suspect your engine is dirty, you can use the AMSOIL Engine and Transmission flush and then proceed with the recommended AMSOIL extended oil change intervals, or just consider your first AMSOIL oil change as severe mileage for cleanup, then follow the recommended AMSOIL extended oil change intervals.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
If you do call an Amsoil Dealer, it is true, you will get the luck of the draw, is he a real car guy who has vast knowledge about engines and motor oil's or is he a guy just doing this as a part time job without that much knowledge about cars.
True. I think picking the right AMSOIL dealer is important and you should ask about their background if that is important to you. You can always call AMSOIL tech support for professional advice if you need to.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor, but BITOG limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3 and those have been filled for years. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering AMSOIL questions.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor and BITOG currently limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering questions.


That is a satisfactory answer, I know how it can be with some of the moderators over there, that is why I am also not a member anymore on BITOG.
quote:
I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over.


It's about time someone else said the truth about UOA's,besides myself and a handful of others.

Yet,some of you wanted UOA's for the "other" synthetic oil,and considered the 'flawed' results to be gospel'....

Now,once again UOA's are worthless because you don't like amsoil,and that's your way of bashing it too.

So, UOA's only matter when its' convenient for you?

Kirk
quote:


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. AD
. It is only $35 for the optional 2 inch thick business manual and application guides and includes the T1 Certification Test which is sold at company cost. It has paid for itself several times over with the free leads that AMSOIL sends me. I've had open book tests in college. What is your point? I think the value of the test is that you have to find out how to use the manual to find the information you need to answer the questions. Then when customers ask questions, you know where to find the answers. More like a home study course than a test. But you still have to ace it.



My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert? Why do people bother going to college then? These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over.


It's about time someone else said the truth about UOA's,besides myself and a handful of others.

Yet,some of you wanted UOA's for the "other" synthetic oil,and considered the 'flawed' results to be gospel'....

Now,once again UOA's are worthless because you don't like amsoil,and that's your way of bashing it too.

So, UOA's only matter when its' convenient for you?

Kirk


I've read UOA reports where they had the wrong car, wrong engine, and wrong oil, eg PP when M1 was used. They were corrected, so the data was flawed. Lets not get started again on the waste oil you were trying to push here. A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor, but BITOG limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3 and those have been filled for years. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering AMSOIL questions.




Tim,don't even bother with these guys/guy,or Bobs place(I mean Helen),you are talking to only one guy any way,believe me,I know.

There are way too many other more reasonable people out there to discuss Amsoil,who would be on your level of thinking and will listen and focus on logic.

Bobs place is here now,and so is the mantra with it.

I still use Amsoil products at present such as,the air filters,oil filters,ATF, T-CASE lubes,and saber Professional two stroke oil 100:1.

I would have no problem in a heartbeat if I needed to,switch back to Amsoil motor oil.

Several co-workers of mine use Amsoil products because they knew I used the Amsoil motor oil products years ago and it convinced them at that time of it's benefits. Two of them are marine mechanic/ retired coast guard workers,car collectors,and in the lawn service business, and state they see a big difference over the other stuff they tried.

They will not use anything else..they are that satisfied. They do know of the other oils I use as well,and are curious.


Kirk
quote:
A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.



Who was the 'expert'?? What was the cost of the test. Why is he 'respected',are you drinking buddies,do you know him personally,does he drop by and pull your dipstick in person?... I am the only expert on this forum in a sense,with the that oil,because It's in A-L-L my engines,for many years now.

Are you still calling me liar?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert?
I don't think taking the T1 test makes anyone an expert. It shows that they have an interest in having a successful business, and the ability of how to look up questions and get the correct answers about AMSOIL.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Why do people bother going to college then?
I went to college to learn how to think better, be more open minded and to learn chemistry which got me a chemistry job with Shell Oil company. And to meet college girls!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.
Do you know for sure they are AMSOIL Dealers? Were these dealers T1 Certified? Were their dealer sites Authorized AMSOIL Dealer websites? Can you provide links to these false claims? How do you know they are false?
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.



Who was the 'expert'?? What was the cost of the test. Why is he 'respected',are you drinking buddies,do you know him personally. I am the only expert on this forum in a sense,with the that oil,because It's in A-L-L my engines,for many years now.


Why don't you check him out for yourself?


quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk: Are you still calling me liar?


Am I calling you a liar? Take a guess. Actually several people think you are a liar, and posting under several names.


Lets see if this thread can run 50 pages. Things were dull while you were gone.


AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert?
I don't think taking the T1 test makes anyone an expert. It shows that they have an interest in having a successful business, and the ability of how to look up questions and get the correct answers about AMSOIL.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Why do people bother going to college then?
I went to college to learn how to think better and to learn chemistry which got me a chemistry job with Shell Oil company. And to meet college girls!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.
Do you know for sure they are AMSOIL Dealers? Were these dealers T1 Certified? Were their dealer sites Authorized AMSOIL Dealer websites? Can you provide links to these false claims? How do you know they are false?


As a matter of fact yes they were/are T1 certified. Only I'm not going to waste my time searching for them, try GOOGLE and shoot off a few emails to "dealers" with sites, ask questions, I did. One of these "dealers" was pushing SSO for every application including new cars calling for 5W20 oil. Then swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........

A simple call to Ford Motor Company set me straight. SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20 would be an issue if a warranty claim arose, Ford wouldn't back the warranty with that oil. Why not call Ford and ask for yourself? Tell then Amsoil said it was OK to use SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20, or try Chrylser.

Your resume seems impressive, you might just be the exception and not the rule.

AD
quote:
hen swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........


I already pasted way back all those blown up engines with sludge using everyday oils.........where the warranty was denied because of sludge,even with dealer oil change records. So much for getting your car serviced at the dealer to CYA!

Show us,ADF1,one case of a lawsuit with Amsoil oil in any one of those cars. Show us one of those sludge monster car lawsuits that had warranty issues using Amsoil instead of bulk oil.

The whole reason to use Amsoil,is so you don't have any engine/warranty issues in the first place. Your argument regarding warranty issues makes no sense,nor has any sound fundamental backing with regard to Amsoil.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

These characters can't relate to those concepts,it makes too much sense to them,and has too much purpose,and meaning,such as,girls,nice cars,degree....no way, These forums would be their "wives",degree,and their lives.


How typical. Way to trash an otherwise pleasent thread with more of your off topic, nonsensical, inflammitory rhetoric.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

These characters can't relate to those concepts,it makes too much sense to them,and has too much purpose,and meaning,such as,girls,nice cars,degree....no way, These forums would be their "wives",degree,and their lives.


How typical. Way to trash an otherwise pleasent thread with more of your off topic, nonsensical, inflammitory rhetoric.



NO,it's actually,how typical of you, Trajan,when one of your incarnations is incapable of answering a real question,your strategy is,duck out and hide,and pop in with another incarnation,and still no answer,just more rhetoric.

We all see right through you!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

As a matter of fact yes they were/are T1 certified. Only I'm not going to waste my time searching for them, try GOOGLE and shoot off a few emails to "dealers" with sites, ask questions, I did. One of these "dealers" was pushing SSO for every application including new cars calling for 5W20 oil. Then swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........

A simple call to Ford Motor Company set me straight. SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20 would be an issue if a warranty claim arose, Ford wouldn't back the warranty with that oil. Why not call Ford and ask for yourself? Tell then Amsoil said it was OK to use SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20, or try Chrylser.

Your resume seems impressive, you might just be the exception and not the rule.

AD
It is possible that the dealer could have been correct in suggesting SSO for a new Ford listing 5w20 oil.
For example from the AMSOIL vehicle look up:

2010 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L 8-cyl Engine Code [H]
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
Engine Oil
Grade 1......API*[1]
100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASMQT)
XL 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLMQT)
Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSOQT)
All TEMPS......5W-20
[1] Manufacturer recommends motor oil that is formulated to meet
Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

AMSOIL bases their recommendations on the vehicle manufacturers specifications, in this case Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A, which AMSOIL recommends SSO 0w30. And if AMSOIL makes the recommendation, then AMSOIL also backs it up. And vehicle warranties only cover defects in parts and workmanship, not the oil. If the oil did not cause the failure, then it would be covered by the manufacturer if it was a defect in parts or workmanship. If the oil is at fault, then the AMSOIL warranty comes into play. AMSOIL has not voided any new car warranty with their recommended oils for 38 years. Third party oil and parts analysis easily determines the reason for failure. No battles. To me, this is why it is important to use an oil with a warranty. If a vehicle manufacturer says using AMSOIL will void a warranty, then ask them to put it in writing. At that point they normally back down. If not, send it to AMSOIL who will refresh them on warranty laws.
Last edited by timvipond
Call Ford and ask. If they spec 5W20, they want 5W20, not 0W30!!! PERIOD. What Amsoil says is all fine and dandy, would you gamble with a $30,000 vehicle because Amsoil says they'll get your back? I guess you would you sell the stuff.

Remember SSO doesn't wear the API Starburst, so they can say they meet any spec they want. But they don't have the API stamp on SSO. Ford would like to see that too. The dealer has the right to refuse a claim if the oil they spec wasn't used. Try adding Type F trans fluid to a new GM car see what happens if you have a tranny problem. I mean after all it is tranny fluid isn't it? Only problem, it isn't what GM calls for. Same for SSO in a Ford or Chrysler calling for an API approved 5W20.

If I use the correct oil I don't have to send Amsoil to refresh anyone. After warranty have at it.......

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Call Ford and ask. If they spec 5W20, they want 5W20, not 0W30!!! PERIOD.
Actually they spec Ford WSS-M2C930-A, which AMSOIL recommends SSO and the other 2 oils.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: What Amsoil says is all fine and dandy, would you gamble with a $30,000 vehicle because Amsoil says they'll get your back? I guess you would you sell the stuff.
I don't see a gamble since Ford covers the defects and AMSOIL covers the oil. And I use it in my $90,000 2008 Ford motorhome still under Ford warranty and change at 15,000 miles/1 year instead of Ford's recommended 3,000 miles. No worries at all. A sure bet.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Remember SSO doesn't wear the API Starburst, so they can say they meet any spec they want. But they don't have the API stamp on SSO. Ford would like to see that too. The dealer has the right to refuse a claim if the oil they spec wasn't used. Try adding Type F trans fluid to a new GM car see what happens if you have a tranny problem. I mean after all it is tranny fluid isn't it? Only problem, it isn't what GM calls for. Same for SSO in a Ford or Chrysler calling for an API approved 5W20.

If I use the correct oil I don't have to send Amsoil to refresh anyone. After warranty have at it.......

AD

No vehicle manufacturer requires the voluntary API starburst for warranty coverage. If it is important to you for some reason, then use one. AMSOIL offers a 5w20 that has the starburst. Does Red Line?

The dealer has NO right to refuse a warranty claim. That can only be done by the vehicle manufacturer and they have to state the reason in writing. If your fluids meet the manufacturer's specification, that is all that is required. And the vehicle manufacturer warranty only covers defects, and not the specified fluid. If the specified fluid fails, then it will fall back to the fluid manufacturer. That is why it is important to use a high quality fluid with a good warranty that covers parts and labor.
In my example the MFG specs in writing 5W20, Amsoil says 0W30 is OK. Once again the mfg states in writing 5W20, if the engine fails with oil they don't spec they have the right to refuse the claim. Pretty simple. Then the problems begin. I come from a family with an extensive automotive background. It is not as simple as you think.

Again, I'd rather use RL w/o the Starbusrt than Amsoil w/o the Starburst. Why don't you get that?

Once again, call FMC or Chrysler and ask them if you can use SSO 0W30 in a new car they spec 5W20 for. They will tell you NO.

AD
Right from the Ford site for a 2010 'Stang.

http://www.motorcraftservice.c...LEN/42/10musog2e.pdf

Use SAE 5W-30 engine oil
Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms
to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel
economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and
Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.
To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-30 or an equivalent SAE 5W-30 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C929-A. Refer to Maintenance product specifications and
capacities later in this section for more information.

The above is the V6. Below the V8:

Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil
Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American
Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms
to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel
economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and
Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese
automobile manufacturers.
To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE
5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C930-A. SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and
durability performance meeting all requirements for your
vehicle’s engine. Refer to Maintenance product specifications and
capacities later in this section for more information.

That does leave out RL.
Last edited by trajan
My jeep manual for the v8 says something very similar. It also says that it recommends the 5w-20. No stipulation for mineral,or synthtetic.

The 5w-20 is only mandated for the HEMI. Mineral or synthetic is not really mentioned.

I do know of many people including myself who choose to use whatever weight/grade we desire,even the HEMI users have reported the 0w-30 100% synthetics work fine.

It would seem there is some perception that putting 5w-30 premium synthetic/amsoil in an engine is going to cause the engine to blow up,or develope wear issues because the mfg 'recommends 5w-20/dino oil,thus voiding the warranty............that is impossible.......never happened..........and is against the law.



You see folks,I have a family that used to be in the car business myself.

I was a sun-snap on rep,sister was a chrysler rep/district manager,and we never ever saw or heard of any warranty issues because someone put better/different oil then the manual recomended,such as amsoil,lucas,stp,etc,and got denied.

The issues I saw were cars where the owner forgot/refused to change the factory oil,and the engine blew at 20k with the factory stamped oil filter still on the "leased" car.

I suppose if a customer had straight 50 mineral oil installed in Maine during winter, and blew the cam out......that would be the exception and not very hard to catch.

If you are that 'paranoid',drain whatever oil you have in the pan,and install what the manual 'recommends'...before you go in to have your car serviced for, knocking,tapping,ticking,smoking,piston slapping,chain slapping clunker repaired,from all the damage that a premium syntheic 0w-30 caused.(lol)


However,everthing else,is strickly academic.

A little bit of an explanation to read

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil...0-recommendation.htm
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
In my example the MFG specs in writing 5W20, Amsoil says 0W30 is OK. Once again the mfg states in writing 5W20, if the engine fails with oil they don't spec they have the right to refuse the claim. Pretty simple. Then the problems begin. I come from a family with an extensive automotive background. It is not as simple as you think.

Again, I'd rather use RL w/o the Starbusrt than Amsoil w/o the Starburst. Why don't you get that?

Once again, call FMC or Chrysler and ask them if you can use SSO 0W30 in a new car they spec 5W20 for. They will tell you NO.

AD
So AD, I'll call Ford tomorrow and ask them if using AMSOIL SSO 0w30 will void the warranty for this vehicle:
2010 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L 8-cyl Engine Code [H]
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
Engine Oil
Grade 1......API*[1]
100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASMQT)
XL 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLMQT)
Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSOQT)
All TEMPS......5W-20
[1] Manufacturer recommends motor oil that is formulated to meet
Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

Is this correct?
Does the OM call for 5W20 only? Or do they give choices? Who you calling a dealer, or FMC? And finally, I won't use Amsoil based on what you tell me. After all if my engine dies you won't be replacing it.

Oh yea, I already called Ford, and Chrysler I got my answer, or I wouldn't be posting this.

But if you insist, ask them if non API SSO 0W30 ruins the engine that Ford specifically calls for 5W20 will Ford pay for it? Make sure you taylor your question to get the answer you're looking for Tim.

Also ask them what they think of the 25,000 mile filters too. You should ask Toyota about them too while you're on your fact finding mission. I'm not drinking the Kool Aid, sorry.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Does the OM call for 5W20 only? Or do they give choices? Who you calling a dealer, or FMC? And finally, I won't use Amsoil based on what you tell me. After all if my engine dies you won't be replacing it.

Oh yea, I already called Ford, and Chrysler I got my answer, or I wouldn't be posting this.

But if you insist, ask them if non API SSO 0W30 ruins the engine that Ford specifically calls for 5W20 will Ford pay for it? Make sure you taylor your question to get the answer you're looking for Tim.

Also ask them what they think of the 25,000 mile filters too. You should ask Toyota about them too while you're on your fact finding mission. I'm not drinking the Kool Aid, sorry.

AD
So I take it that my question as it stands meets your approval since they only seem to spec 5w20 and the Ford spec for my suggested vehicle. Correct? I'm going to call Ford Motor Company Customer Relations Center in Dearborn, MI 1-800-392-Ford as instructed in my Ford owners manual if that meets your approval. Like I said before, only Ford Motor Oil Company can deny warranty coverage, not the dealer as you said.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Not sure I understand you. If your Ford calls for 5W20 only and is a 2010, XL would be the choice to CYA. Only Amsoil suggests 0W30, all other oil companies will tell you 5W20.

AD
Not true. AMSOIL recommends their 0w20 and 0w30 for the given application, so the AMSOIL warranty would CMA if the oil failed, which it hasn't in 38 years. Ford only warrants against manufacturing defects, not the oil.

Here is Mobil 1's recommendation. Notice they also recommend 0w20, just like AMSOIL. "Oh the horror!"

What's the right oil for my car?


Our products in the viscosity right for your vehicle

We've taken what you told us about your vehicle and driving conditions, and using an auto industry database, have determined our products in the viscosity recommended by your vehicle manufacturer. These products are shown categorized by the level of protection they provide. To learn more about a product, click its name.

Current Vehicle:
Year: 2010
Make: Ford
Model: Mustang
Engine Type: 8cyl. 4.6Liter Naturally Aspirated



Ultimate Protection

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 fully synthetic motor oil is designed for today's longer service intervals. It provides guaranteed performance and protection for 15,000 miles or one year. Mobil 1 Extended Performance products with the Advanced SuperSyn System contain extra performance additives to help deliver outstanding engine protection.

Mobil 1 5W-20
A fully synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 5W-20 with SuperSyn Technology exceeds the industry's toughest standards and outperforms all conventional oils. Mobil 1 is recommended by leading car manufacturers as initial fill.

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy
For improved fuel economy, consider using Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy which is engineered to deliver outstanding engine protection and to offer improved fuel economy in vehicles where SAE 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil is recommended.
He we go round and round. I don't trust the oil company warranty, and I don't trust what a salesman tells me. I trust FMC, they say 5W20 and they'll back their product with an API 5W20 oil. Simple enough?

Besides RL will give me the same warranty as Amsoil, and suggest I use their 5W20 which is what Ford calls for. I feel more comfortable with them. You won't sell me on Amsoil........
AD
Nowhere does it say 0W30 from Mobil. Any fool knows a 0W20 can be used in place of a 5W20, our discussion is SSO 0W30 in a 5W20 application, new vehicle under warranty. I'd trust Mobil over Amsoil too.

You answered your own question a 20 grade oil is right for your car. Ask Pennzoil, bet they say a 20 grade oil too, and not mention a 30 grade. Only Amsoil suggests SSO 0W30, they have a lot invested in it and want to push it.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
He we go round and round. I don't trust the oil company warranty, and I don't trust what a salesman tells me. I trust FMC, they say 5W20 and they'll back their product with an API 5W20 oil. Simple enough?

Besides RL will give me the same warranty as Amsoil, and suggest I use their 5W20 which is what Ford calls for. I feel more comfortable with them. You won't sell me on Amsoil........
AD
Can you provide us with a copy of the Red Line warranty and also show where they warranty up to 35,000 miles?
I'm not interested in selling you on AMSOIL. Only in providing verifiable facts.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nowhere does it say 0W30 from Mobil. Any fool knows a 0W20 can be used in place of a 5W20, our discussion is SSO 0W30 in a 5W20 application, new vehicle under warranty. I'd trust Mobil over Amsoil too.
The Mobil 0w30 does not list the required Ford spec. AMSOIL does. And why did you say that only the AMSOIL 5w20 meets the spec and Ford warranty requirements, when AMSOIL also listed their 0w20? And Castrol makes a 0w20, but do not list it as a recommended oil for the 5w20 Mustang. Perhaps you should call them and let them know how foolish they are? Are you also saying that any 5w20 oil will work, even if they don't list the Ford spec?

quote:
You answered your own question a 20 grade oil is right for your car. Ask Pennzoil, bet they say a 20 grade oil too, and not mention a 30 grade. Only Amsoil suggests SSO 0W30, they have a lot invested in it and want to push it.

AD
The Pennzoil website is so out of date, they don't even list 2010 Mustangs! And they don't even offer a 0w-30! Maybe AMSOIL is the only one that makes a 0w-30 that meets the Ford spec? They are the only one that warranties a 35,000 mile/1 year oil.
Last edited by timvipond
The discussion isn't about 35,000 mile oil? The discussion was about SSO 0W30 being specd for engines calling for a 20 grade oil. Only a fool with a new car and a warranty would use oil for 35,000 miles. RL doesn't make those claims, but if the oil is at fault I'd rather have them in my corner, in the grade the mfg calls for, not something they don't recommend.


Have a look at some UOA's where the TBN of SSO is shot long before 35,000 miles. Remember this isn't a prefect world. How about those filters that can't make the distance, they got caught with their shorts down on that didn't they?

Ford doesn't spec 30 grade oil for all their 2010 engines, most are probably calling for a 20 grade. Amsoil is the only company that lists a 30 grade oil for Ford and Chrylser apps calling for 20 grade oils.

Show me proof where FORD says it is OK to use a 30 grade oil instead of a 20 grade oil in the US for an engine calling specifically for a 20 grade oil. Seems Mobil got it right in your example.

Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO it doesn't have the API approval, and don't have to answer to them. Oh yea they do claim to meet or exceed it though, they just didn't want to pay.


I'll take my chances with RL, on Dave's word alone.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Who is talking about 35,000 mile oil? I'm not, and only a fool with a new car and a warranty would use oil for 35,000 miles.
You said RL gives the same warranty as AMSOIL, yet you can't produce a warranty for even 25,000 miles. Why would only a fool with a new car use an oil for 35,000 normal miles up to a year? The 3500 Texas State Police change every 20,000 severe miles with a lesser oil for the past 10 years. Are they fools also?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: RL doesn't make those claims, but if the oil is at fault I'd rather have them in my corner.
Why? They don't seem to have a warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Have a look at some UOA's where the TBN of SSO is shot long before 35,000 miles. Remember this isn't a prefect world.
The oil has never failed in 38 years when used as recommended, so I doubt the oil is shot. Please post your best example.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Ford doesn't spec 30 grade oil for all their 2010 engines, most probably are calling for a 20 grade. Amsoil is the only company that lists a 30 grade oil for Ford and Chrylser calling for 20 grade oils.
So? Maybe the other SAE 30 oils don't meet the manufacturers specs. And they certainly don't warranty a 35,000 normal mile/1 year oil change interval.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Show me proof where FORD specs a 30 grade oil in the US for that engine. Seems Mobil got it right in your example.
Which engine? Trajen showed a Ford Mustang engine that specs a 30 weight oil a few posts back. And Mobil didn't offer the required Ford spec either. So they did get it right.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO it doesn't have the API approval. Oh yea they do claim to meet or exceed it though, they just didn't want to pay.
So? No vehicle manufacturer requires API approved oils. Why pay if it is not required by anyone? RL isn't API approved. And why didn't RL want to pay? And AMSOIL offers 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 that are API approved, if that is important to anyone.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I'll take my chances with RL, on Dave's word alone.

AD
Good luck with that...Still waiting for a copy of the RL warranty, which you claim is the same as AMSOIL's.
Last edited by timvipond
Try re-reading my above thread which was in the process of an edit while you were replying. Read it closely.

I'll try and clear it up for you. If Ford is calling only for a 20 grade oil in certain apps, then they want a 20 grade oil. If they call for a 30 grade oil they only want a 30 grade oil unless otherwise stated. Amsoil took the liberty of saying 0W30 was OK in applications Ford wanted only 20 grade oil for. If they call for 5W50, then use 5W50. Simple.

Another example my GF has an 08 Jeep it calls for 5W20, we know we can use 0W20, Amsoil says it is OK to use 0W30 as well as the other two. Jeep people say don't use it. Go to Mobil, they say 5W20 and 0W20, spot on.

You run your oil for 35K in that new Mustang? Or do you do what most smart oil companies suggest when under a warranty. You know, follow the OLM or the OM recommendations.

Again, I don't need to produce a warranty, I'm not shilling RL. I think its a better oil, and so do a lot of other people.

Also remember the topic here is "I'm sticking with RL"..

AD
Tim, you said above "No vehicle manufacturer requires API approved oils", but that post of mine you mentioned..."Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API)."

There is even a drawing in the manual of what to look for.

So yes, a car mfg is telling you to use API certed oil.

The manual is very specific, at least for the Stang. For the V6, 5w30 only. Use API certed oil. For the 8, it's 5w20 only.

For my car, it's different. A specific weight isn't listed as it's a non ///M. But it has to be A3/B3 LL-01 under warranty. It can be 0w30, 5w30, 0w40. BMWNA has a very short list of oils for USA driven bimmers.

So it's either Castrol, BMW label, Valvoline MST, or Mobil 1 while under warranty. Nothing else.

Drat, we were typing at the same time. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

You run your oil for 35K in that new Mustang? Or do you do what most smart oil companies suggest when under a warranty. You know, follow the OLM or the OM recommendations.
The OLM and OM "recommendations" was designed for the lowest quality oil that barely meets the Ford specs. It doesn't apply to AMSOIL. Yes, if I had a new Mustang, used SSO and drove it 35,000 normal miles in a year or less and it would still keep the factory warranty intact. The 3500 Texas State Police drive much harder than that on a lesser oil for 20,000 severe miles. I go 5 times longer than Ford recommends on my 2008 Ford motorhome. 38 years, millions of oil changes, and no failures is good enough for me. And then it is warranted if it does fail. Would you do that with Red Line?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Again, I don't need to produce a warranty, I'm not shilling RL. I think its a better oil, and so do a lot of other people.
You don't need to produce a warranty, or can't? Why do you "think" it is a better oil? Longer warranty? API certified? Published name brand comparison tests? More than 38 years without failure? The curious want to know.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Also remember the topic here is "I'm sticking with RL"..

AD
Then why did others bring up false information about AMSOIL?
Thanks Trajan, seems he is selective in his reading. My point all along was a new car mfg will look for a waay out of a warranty claim if you don't follow their recommendations. The word their is important, their meaning the mfg, not their meaning Amsoil.

They want an API certified oil for a reason. If I were to use an non API certified oil I would use RL.

If Tim cares to search the WWW for UOA reports he'll find plenty of them where SSO and ASM fell short of their life expectancy.

Oh yes, Amsoil's warranty is different from RL. RL claims are more realistic. And again I'll make mention of those Amsoil filters that didn't live up to their expectations. The company is far from perfect.

AD
Lets see Tim you said this:

The OLM and OM "recommendations" was designed for the lowest quality oil that barely meets the Ford specs. It doesn't apply to AMSOIL. Yes, if I had a new Mustang, used SSO and drove it 35,000 normal miles in a year or less and it would still keep the factory warranty intact.

----------------------------------------

So Ford would cover engine an problem (2010) if they spec'd a 20 grade oil, 6 month or 7500 mile OCI, under these conditions. You ran SSO 0W30 for 35,000 "normal" miles, or 1 year w/o a change? Lets say you developed a nice bearing knock. Ford will eat it? Dream on............ I hope you don't tell your customers that Tim. No no.

Wait make sure you tell the service writer they were "normal" miles, when you tell him about the knock. Oh wait Amsoil will eat it.

AD
Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×