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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

Tim in business when a company pays out they keep it quiet. Smart business people know that. Check Bitog Tim, search the oil filter section there is a conversation going on there now. A few months back Toyota filters were taking the hit. Search you'll find some people complaining that SSO didn't hold up as long as stated, its all there. No need for me to waste time providing links the info is on the www. I'm not the only person who read it.

For the loyalty you have to Amsoil you should be a part owner of the company. Just make sure you tell people under a warranty to follow the OM, and not run SSO for 35K or 1 year as you stated a few pages back. Also if a mfg suggests a 20 grade as the only option, and they need the API Star sell them the XL, the mfg won't be happy with SSO in the sump if there is a problem. That'll get you into some trouble. I wonder if a $35 dealer giving bad advise could be held liable? Any lawyers in the group care to answer that?

You getting tired of running in circles, we've been down this road before!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=214346&page=1

Amsoil 5W-30 1 Year, 18,472 miles.

Interesting thread. The AMSOIL was due to be changed out due to being in the engine a year, as AMSOIL recommends. At 18,472 miles, it was used 6 times longer than the universal average for this engine. Yet the wear per mile was much less than the universal average in all measurements which is outstanding, showing very little wear and that the oil is performing as advertised. The manganese value is very high and usually a gasoline additive, but might be a contamination issue. Since this was a first time AMSOIL usage in a car that had run Quaker State at 7,000 mile intervals, there could have been some cleaning going on which would explain the slight thickening of the AMSOIL and the depleted TBN.
Last edited by timvipond
A little spin on the words Tim, don't you think? The guy ran 1 year 25000 mile oil as per his title, 1 year and 18,472, a little shy of 25K I'd say. TBN ZERO, at 15K or less it should have been dumped he'd have some reserve TBN then. Good thing he got it out. 6 times the universal average? Nice smoke and mirrors, it fell short with ZERO TBN, the oil was done.

The nice thing about a UOA is people like you can put a twist on it, and make it a stellar report. There are more reports like this search is your friend. Experts weighed in on that thread too MolaKule had some comments, he's an expert IIRC, these are his remarks: Patman is well respected too:
From Molakule: The Dispersant/detegent package which affects the TBN is 70% shot. Only about 30% of the Calcium and Magnesium is left.

The ZDDP is down about 60% but is still hanging in there. Wear metals are awful. This why I never take Amsoil past 8-12k as I have stated before.

I'd take his word over yours Tim.

Oh yea lets blame it on the oil used prior. Is that in the Amsoil book? Maybe you should tell people to cut the first Amsoil OCI in half, to get all the bad stuff out.

Extended drains is a risky business, it is clearly not for everyone, that example proved it. I wonder if that guys rep was honest with him?

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Tim in business when a company pays out they keep it quiet.
And if they did or didn't pay out, it would likely show up on the internet. I don't see any problems posted.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Check Bitog Tim, search the oil filter section there is a conversation going on there now. A few months back Toyota filters were taking the hit. Search you'll find some people complaining that SSO didn't hold up as long as stated, its all there. No need for me to waste time providing links the info is on the www. I'm not the only person who read it.
Is this the thread? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1899403&page=3 Seems like most people are siding with AMSOIL on the way they are handling it. I don't see where it caused and damage.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:For the loyalty you have to Amsoil you should be a part owner of the company.
I would buy stock if it was available. Their products are the longest lasting and of the highest quality. Probably the most environmentally friendly oil company in the business (look how Exxon handled Valdez, and BP the mess they made of the Gulf of Mexico, plus their frequent recommended oil and filter changes) with less resources use up, and less oil and filters disposed due to their unique long life. Record growth last year and double digit growth every year for the past 20 years where the motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year. They use American vendors, no foreign oil, American workers. An American success story.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Just make sure you tell people under a warranty to follow the OM,
Why? No manufacturer requires it and AMSOIL's recommendations are warranted in and out of warranty)
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: and not run SSO for 35K or 1 year as you stated a few pages back .
Why? There has never been a problem with the vehicle manufacturers warranty, and no problem with the oil causing any failure. This is why 1500 government agencies run AMSOIL in their brand new cars and follow AMSOIL's recommendations.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Also if a mfg suggests a 20 grade as the only option, and they need the API Star sell them the XL, the mfg won't be happy with SSO in the sump if there is a problem. That'll get you into some trouble.
Why? It has never gotten anyone in trouble in 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Tim in business when a company pays out they keep it quiet.
And if they did or didn't pay out, it would likely show up on the internet. I don't see any problems posted.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Check Bitog Tim, search the oil filter section there is a conversation going on there now. A few months back Toyota filters were taking the hit. Search you'll find some people complaining that SSO didn't hold up as long as stated, its all there. No need for me to waste time providing links the info is on the www. I'm not the only person who read it.
Is this the thread? http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1899403&page=3 Seems like most people are siding with AMSOIL on the way they are handling it. I don't see where it caused any damage.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: You getting tired of running in circles, we've been down this road before!
Tired? Why? I retired and have lots of free time. I back up my claims with facts from the auto industry, consumer law and AMSOIL. You have provided no facts, only opinions.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
A little spin on the words Tim, don't you think? The guy ran 1 year 25000 mile oil as per his title, 1 year and 18,472, a little shy of 25K I'd say.
No spin on words. AMSOIL clearly says 25,000 miles or 1 year, whichever is first. He got to 1 year first, and AMSOIL protected his engine with less wear per mile than the universal average using 3,000 mile oil changes.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: TBN ZERO, at 15K or less it should have been dumped he'd have some reserve TBN then. Good thing he got it out. 6 times the universal average? Nice smoke and mirrors, it fell short with ZERO TBN, the oil was done.
Yes the oil was done. It lasted the year like AMSOIL recommends, and very low wear per mile. It worked as advertised.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The nice thing about a UOA is people like you can put a twist on it, and make it a stellar report. There are more reports like this search is your friend. Experts weighed in on that thread too MolaKule had some comments, he's an expert IIRC, these are his remarks: Patman is well respected too:
From Molakule: The Dispersant/detegent package which affects the TBN is 70% shot. Only about 30% of the Calcium and Magnesium is left.

The ZDDP is down about 60% but is still hanging in there. Wear metals are awful. This why I never take Amsoil past 8-12k as I have stated before.

I'd take his word over yours Tim.

Did you notice he retracted his statements on his next post? Do you still take his word now?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Oh yea lets blame it on the oil used prior. Is that in the Amsoil book? Maybe you should tell people to cut the first Amsoil OCI in half, to get all the bad stuff out.
Actually AMSOIL clearly states that already: • Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. (4) Turbo/supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, use of AMSOIL motor oil in vehicles with more than 100,000 miles without prior use of AMSOIL motor oil, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16 km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.

This engine was nearly at 100,000 miles. And yet the oil performed at one year with lower metal wear per mile than the universal average of 3,000 miles.



quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Extended drains is a risky business, it is clearly not for everyone, that example proved it. I wonder if that guys rep was honest with him?

AD
The example proved the oil worked for a 1 year oil change as recommended by AMSOIL. No risk when the company has proven it for 38 years with no oil failures, has never voided a factory warranty, and the best extended change interval warranty in the business.
LOL, it appears that way, have a good look at the report. The oil was spent, wear metals high. Had he used a good synthetic and changed the oil at 10K he would have cut the wear metals down, and in the long run been better off.

Trajan just wondering would you run the oil that long, and be happy with that report? Tim would, most people in that thread wouldn't. My point still stands.

Tim you never answered the question about the 35K 1 year OCI on the new Mustang you spoke about? Making those ref's could get you into some legal trouble. Refs like these: You mentioned this way back Tim: "I don't see a gamble since Ford covers the defects and AMSOIL covers the oil. And I use it in my $90,000 2008 Ford motorhome still under Ford warranty and change at 15,000 miles/1 year instead of Ford's recommended 3,000 miles. No worries at all. A sure bet." Strictly going against the mfg is bad advise, and can get you into trouble. Follow the Mfg recommendations for oil and intervals when under warranty is a good way to stay out of trouble. Your comments and suggestions are giving people bad advise. Maybe one day it will turn around and bite you in the backside. It would be pretty funny if Amsoil bailed and said you were giving bad info. Another reason why they really should monitor their dealers, and keep them in check. Ever meet a good NY Lawyer?

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
LOL, it appears that way, have a good look at the report. The oil was spent, wear metals high.
Multiply the universal average wear numbers by 6, since the 1 AMSOIL change was equal to 6 universal averages changes. Iron for AMSOIL was 131, the Universal becomes 168. AMSOIL shows less wear. Aluminum for AMSOIL is 8, Universal becomes 24. AMSOIL shows less wear. Copper for AMSOIL is 20, the Universal becomes 48. AMSOIL shows less wear. Lead for AMSOIL is 2, Universal become 18. AMSOIL shows less wear. The same for the remaining wear metals, AMSOIL shows less wear.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Tim you never answered the question about the 35K 1 year OCI on the new Mustang you spoke about?
Yes I did. I said that if I drove 35,000 normal service miles in one year I would do it on one AMSOIL SSO oil change. Why? It wouldn't void the factory warranty, AMSOIL has proven extended oil changes for 38 years with no oil related failures, and if it were to fail, AMSOIL would cover it. So, why not?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Making those ref's could get you into some legal trouble. Refs like these: You mentioned this way back Tim: "I don't see a gamble since Ford covers the defects and AMSOIL covers the oil. And I use it in my $90,000 2008 Ford motorhome still under Ford warranty and change at 15,000 miles/1 year instead of Ford's recommended 3,000 miles. No worries at all. A sure bet." Strictly going against the mfg is bad advise, and can get you into trouble.
Where am I going against the manufacturer? They are the ones that said they only cover manufacturing defects, and that the warranty is not contingent on the oil or service interval.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Follow the Mfg recommendations for oil and intervals when under warranty is a good way to stay out of trouble.
You can if you want, but GM said warranty is not contingent on following their recommendations for oil and intervals. The law also says that. AMSOIL agrees with them, and provide a warranty should their recommendations fail. Which they haven't in 38 years. And consumers still had to pay for sludged up engines when they followed the auto manufacturers "suggested" oil and change interval.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Your comments and suggestions are giving people bad advise.
What advice was bad? I am following the vehicle manufacturers advice regarding extended oil changes, consumer law and AMSOIL's warranty. Seems like good advice to save time and money. You have yet to prove me wrong on any of this, yet I have backed up my claims with quotes from the vehicle manufacturers, consumer law, and AMSOIL.
Last edited by timvipond
Run your $90K motorhome 15K w/o changing the oil or the filter on Amsoil and spin a bearing, let me know what Ford says when they review your maint' history. See how long it takes Amsoil to make good. You sir are giving bad advise. Consumer law many times requires a lawyer when things go sour, those lawyer fees come out of your pocket.

I had an opportunity this weekend to speak with a Service Writer at a social gathering I went to. I made mention of the Mustang and the 35K 1 year OCI. He'd laugh you right out of the shop if you came in with an oil related problem, and suggest you take your Stang to Amsoil for repairs. Or leave on the side and wait for a regional manager, and let him laugh you out of the shop.

Remember Amsoil hides their claims, so I ain't buying your 38 year perfect history story. Those Honda and Toyota filters that are being spoken about falling short of expectations are one fine example of how wrong Amsoil was in tagging them for 25K mile use. That is something testing should have told them, not customers with an oil light beaming. A TBN of ZERO at the end of a 1 year interval isn't to impressive either.

What we don't know about the flunked 5W30 Amsoil in the UOA report is when the TBN hit ZERO. It could have been 9 months into the OCI, more, or maybe even less. Not good!

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Run your $90K motorhome 15K on Amsoil and spin a bearing, let me know what Ford says when they review your maint' history.
I ran my last motorhome with 15,000 mile intervals. No spun bearing. No oil related failure. Not surprising since no one has proven an AMSOIL oil related failure in 38 years. If Ford says the bearing was defective under warranty, they will replace. If they prove the oil failed then AMSOIL pays. No problem.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: See how long it takes Amsoil to make good.
Repairs are begun immediately after contacting AMSOIL. Parts and oil are removed and analyzed promptly. Cause of the problem is determined and who pays. No problem.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: You sir are giving bad advise. Consumer law many times requires a lawyer when things go sour, those lawyer fees come out of your pocket.
You have yet to prove I am giving bad advice. I've never heard of any consumer filing any AMSOIL claim needing any lawyer. Have you?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I had an opportunity this weekend to speak with a Service Writer at a social gathering I went to. I made mention of the Mustang and the 35K 1 year OCI. He'd laugh you right out of the shop if you came in with an oil related problem, and suggest you take your Stang to Amsoil for repairs. Or leave on the side and wait for a regional manager, and let him laugh you out of the shop.
Why would I come in with an oil related problem? It hasn't happened with AMSOIL in 38 years. And if it was oil related, AMSOIL would pay. So why would the service write not want to make his commission, make money for his dealership, and not have the repairs done? That doesn't make sense. If it was not oil failure related, The Ford warranty cannot be denied by any Service Writer. Only in writing by Ford Motor Company. Which they never have in 38 years. Also, AMSOIL would like to know his comments and correspond with him: "If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts."

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Remember Amsoil hides their claims, so I ain't buying your 38 year perfect history story.
Proof of AMSOIL hiding their claims, please. They have publicly talked about their claims and no one has disputed. No one feels that AMSOIL did not handle their claims correctly discussed on the internet or complaints to consumer groups or government agencies. No problems.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Those Honda and Toyota filters that are being spoken about falling short of expectations are one fine example of how wrong Amsoil was in tagging them for 25K mile use. That is something testing should have told them, not customers with an oil light beaming.
It took several years of those vehicles using the EaO filters before a few rare instances showed up. I'd say their, Donaldson's and SouthWest Research Institute testing was pretty thorough, but can not cover every single vehicle in every single situation. And AMSOIL notified their customers and offered refunds or replacements. I still haven't heard of any engine damages, only that in very rare occasions the oil light might come on. That is why it is important to choose an extended life filter with a warranty such as AMSOIL has.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: A TBN of ZERO at the end of a 1 year interval isn't to impressive either.

AD


No, but the lower wear metals of AMSOIL compared to an equivalent of six 3,000 mile Universal oil changes is. The oil performed as advertised.
Last edited by timvipond
Well, I've been following this back and forth between AD and Tim for a couple of days. I haven't read the whole thread. But I have interpreted Tim's responses to AD's arguments has convinced me that Amsoil is going to be my oil of choice in my new Ranger with the 6.0 v6.

Good exchanges on both sides.

I have a thread that I started a few days ago but nobody has replied as yet regarding Amsoil's suggested OCI for my vehicles while under warranty.

Can anybody give me some insight?

http://tinyurl.com/2bpmjqv
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Well, I've been following this back and forth between AD and Tim for a couple of days. I haven't read the whole thread. But I have interpreted Tim's responses to AD's arguments has convinced me that Amsoil is going to be my oil of choice in my new Ranger with the 6.0 v6.

Good exchanges on both sides.

I have a thread that I started a few days ago but nobody has replied as yet regarding Amsoil's suggested OCI for my vehicles while under warranty.

Can anybody give me some insight?

http://tinyurl.com/2bpmjqv


Read back, Tim goes 5x the suggested amount under warranty in a motor home, and runs a Mustang under warranty for 35000 miles or 1 year, w/o changing the oil. Tim says Amsoil covers the warranty not the dealer if oil is the problem. Good luck, I'd follow the OM! But then again what do I know!

BTW good luck with your new ride!

I better get moving!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Well, I've been following this back and forth between AD and Tim for a couple of days. I haven't read the whole thread. But I have interpreted Tim's responses to AD's arguments has convinced me that Amsoil is going to be my oil of choice in my new Ranger with the 6.0 v6.

Good exchanges on both sides.

I have a thread that I started a few days ago but nobody has replied as yet regarding Amsoil's suggested OCI for my vehicles while under warranty.

Can anybody give me some insight?

http://tinyurl.com/2bpmjqv


Certainly, just look up your year/make/model/engine at https://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/vehiclelookup.aspx . Click on the oils AMSOIL recommends for your vehicles. Click on "for more information" button, and read about Service Life. There is no difference if you are under warranty or not. And you get the AMSOIL warranty whether or not your are under vehicle warranty. You can also look at Product Recommendation and Drain Interval Chart at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Or contact me and I can help.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Typical salesman Tim, it shows. The report was dismal, and the TBN could have crapped out long before the 1 year mark.


AD


The report was fine. Wear metals were less than equivalent 6 Universal oil changes, even when the TBN reached zero. Just think how much lower the wear metals might have been if TBN had not been depleted.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Read back, Tim goes 5x the suggested amount under warranty in a motor home, and runs a Mustang under warranty for 35000 miles or 1 year, w/o changing the oil. Tim says Amsoil covers the warranty not the dealer if oil is the problem. Good luck, I'd follow the OM! But then again what do I know!

AD
If I wasn't using AMSOIL, I'd follow the OLM also.
quote:
The report was fine. Wear metals were less than equivalent 6 Universal oil changes, even when the TBN reached zero. Just think how much lower the wear metals might have been if TBN had not been depleted.


I wouldn't have confidence in the oil based on that report. Tim, you are assuming that the rate of wear is consistent over the service life. This gets back to the need for historical data if one is extending drain intervals. Possibly, the oil did fine until the add pack started to deplete. Probably, the majority of wear came closer to the end of service life. If my TBN dropped off the chart, I would have a TAN done to see how severe the acid attack in the engine is. Have no doubt, the TAN is elevated if the TBN isn't there to buffer. That is one reason why it is reckless to push drain intervals without backing them up with real data.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
The report was fine. Wear metals were less than equivalent 6 Universal oil changes, even when the TBN reached zero. Just think how much lower the wear metals might have been if TBN had not been depleted.


I wouldn't have confidence in the oil based on that report. Tim, you are assuming that the rate of wear is consistent over the service life. This gets back to the need for historical data if one is extending drain intervals. Possibly, the oil did fine until the add pack started to deplete. Probably, the majority of wear came closer to the end of service life. If my TBN dropped off the chart, I would have a TAN done to see how severe the acid attack in the engine is. Have no doubt, the TAN is elevated if the TBN isn't there to buffer. That is one reason why it is reckless to push drain intervals without backing them up with real data.


Thanks for stepping up to the plate and commenting. There are a lot of reckless statements Tim made, many which would put a warranty on a new vehicle in jepardy.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
There are a lot of reckless statements Tim made, many which would put a warranty on a new vehicle in jepardy.

AD
Such as? My statements were all supported by vehicle manufacturer, consumer law, and AMSOIL references. You have yet to support your statement at all. Show me where any vehicle warranty has been voided following AMSOIL's recommendations. Millions of oil changes in millions of vehicles under warranty and no vehicle warranty voided.
Last edited by timvipond
e: Amsoil 0w30 SSO 7,400mi 05Toyota Matrix xrs 2zz-ge [Re: Kortik]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 3767
Loc: Illinois
This oil should be good for 10,000 miles.

Amsoil 0w30 SSO 7,400mi 05Toyota Matrix xrs 2zz-ge [Re: Kortik]
Bill in Utah Offline


Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 8437
Loc: UT
Originally Posted By: Kortik
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Originally Posted By: Kortik
My air filter is dirty I am using AEM dry flow filter and I haven't cleaned it for 10K miles that's probably why silicon is high. or this oil already have high silicon content?

My coolant is fine I check it every-other week and the level doesn't change.
this time around Potassium is 12 compared to 21, which was in May of 2009.
So I have no idea why its so much its kind of weird.


I dont know maybe this Amsoil 0W30 VOA has that much of silicon as part of conditioner?

Does anybody have a VOA of this oil so I can compare?


This is interesting, thanks for posting this UOA.

The Toyota 1.8L 2ZZGE engine is one of the engines that Amsoil flagged as being prone to sludge issues with extended drain intervals; which prompted them in pulling the EaO9 and 10 oil filters off the market.

Question: What’s the owners manual list for normal and severe duty oil change intervals?

Keep us posted on this.

Maybe we can see what Amsoil is seeing?


I am using Purolater Pure One PL14477 oil filter on my engine.
Owners manual says to use 5w30 and 5K miles interval oil changes.
I need to look up what they recommend for sever duty I dont have the manual right now with me.


All duty cycles in Toyota's starting with the 2005 model year is 5k miles or 6 months (whichever comes first) PERIOD.

No matter how you drive or what you drive those are the numbers.
_________________________

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1716269&page=1

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1643675&page=1

Service Life
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.

*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer

(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.

(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.

(3) Personal vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16km) at a time and not operating under severe service.

(4) Turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first and subsequent use of AMSOIL in vehicles with over 100,000 miles, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.

Tim, it seems if someone puts on a different exhaust sysytem or air filter that is not an oem air filter then they should not do extended drains. Commercial and Fleet Vehicles should avoid extended drains. If you have a customer that wants to do an extended drain with Amsoil, do you try to find out anything about there drivng habits. Even Blackstone has said in at least the 2nd thread I linked to that the Amsoil SSO would be good to about maybe 15,000 miles. Most people drive there cars under severe service, extensive engine idling, sounds like any congested area in the U.S., short trip driving, less than 10 miles.

There is no way this Amsoil SSO 0W-30 is going to last more than 15,000 miles, unless you are doing 100% Highway Driving, now if your customers are buying a new car and then they go and sell it 3 years later, then they might be able to get away with yearly oil changes, but if they are going to keep the car forever or as long as they can then I see problems down the road with extended drain intervals, one of the reasons you change your oil is because of Fuel Dillution, in order to burn off fuel dillution you need oil temps of about 320 degrees which is probably not going to happen. The guy doing one year 15,000 or 20,000 mile OCI's is going to have very minute particles floating around there engine that the oil filter cannot pickup, whereas the person who follows what the owner's manual says with maybe 5000 mile OCI's will have less particles floating around.

I have to say that we cannot rave about Amsoil not having any problems with extended drains becuase there are somethings that work in Amsoil's favor. Take the guy who buys a new car, most people in the U.S. keep a car for 3 years and then trade it in or sell it, so the guy who keeps his car for 3 years and then does yearly oil changes sells the car to someone else, they probably do not continue doing the yearly oil changes with Amsoil, its a guy who needs a cheaper car and he probably goes down to Jiffy Lube. Where are all of the Amsoil Customers who buy a new car and have been doing yearly oil changes on the same car for the last 20 years, maybe they need to come on and tell us about there experiences.

I just see too many risks with doing extended oil drains with Amsoil, I see there XL Line as being good for 6 months or 7500 miles, but there full line of 100% synthetic oil's are no better than the XL Line under the driving conditions that most of us see everyday. The other problem I see with extended drains is oil consumption, so the oil is either being consumed or burned off, are you telling your extended drain customers to check there oil often. I am thinking the majority of people who do extended drains just put the oil in and forget it.

Extended Drains are fine for perfect driving conditions and spending money on UOA's to see how long you can run the oil, but why not save money on the UOA and just do either 5000 mile or 7500 mile OCI's.

I am also willing to bet that most Amsoil Dealers do not even do extended drains, so if they are not doing extended drains, then why are they pushing Amsoil for extended drain OCI's.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

Tim, it seems if someone puts on a different exhaust sysytem or air filter that is not an oem air filter then they should not do extended drains.
You can always contact AMSOIL technical services to see what modifications do or do not allow AMSOIL extended drain intervals.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Commercial and Fleet Vehicles should avoid extended drains.
Not really. It just falls under the Severe Service category for extended oil and filter changes. The Texas State Police, for example, change AMSOIL and filters every 20,000 miles for severe service. Some commercial trucks have gone 500,000 miles on a single AMSOIL oil change when Used Oil Analysis was performed.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: If you have a customer that wants to do an extended drain with Amsoil, do you try to find out anything about there drivng habits.
Yes. That way we can decide which Service Life category they fall under to maintain their vehicle warranty and the AMSOIL warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Even Blackstone has said in at least the 2nd thread I linked to that the Amsoil SSO would be good to about maybe 15,000 miles.
Yes, if they are driving under Severe Service conditions or have used the oil for 1 year.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Most people drive there cars under severe service, extensive engine idling, sounds like any congested area in the U.S., short trip driving, less than 10 miles.
You might be right. Few also put more than 15,000 miles in a year and the 1 year is up before they reach the suggested mileage for Normal service life.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: There is no way this Amsoil SSO 0W-30 is going to last more than 15,000 miles, unless you are doing 100% Highway Driving,
It has. 100% Highway driving is not a requirement for Normal Service life. The State Police are a prime example. Lot's of idling in Texas Desert heat with A/C on full, pedal to the metal driving, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: now if your customers are buying a new car and then they go and sell it 3 years later, then they might be able to get away with yearly oil changes, but if they are going to keep the car forever or as long as they can then I see problems down the road with extended drain intervals,
I just sold my 1983 Chevy Van a few years ago using extended oil change intervals, and my 1993 motorhome with extended oil change intervals
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: one of the reasons you change your oil is because of Fuel Dillution, in order to burn off fuel dillution you need oil temps of about 320 degrees which is probably not going to happen.
Fuel dilution is very rare according to the Used Oil Analyses I've looked at. The little bit a fuel that does get in the oil volatilizes when the engine gets to temperature. There is a problem with fuel dilution in some 2007 and newer diesel Dodges, Fords, Chevys and some Caterpillar engines. AMSOIL recognizes that and does not recommend extending the oil changes unless the UOA shows that you can.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:The guy doing one year 15,000 or 20,000 mile OCI's is going to have very minute particles floating around there engine that the oil filter cannot pickup, whereas the person who follows what the owner's manual says with maybe 5000 mile OCI's will have less particles floating around.
As a filter gains mileage, it becomes more efficient at trapping even smaller particles. It hasn't shown to be a problem. And the AMSOIL 25,000 mile filter has 98.7% efficiency at 15 microns which trap the harmful sized particles. For even more protection, you can install a bypass filtration system for filtering to 2 microns and smaller. Here is a brochure on a Chevy gasoline delivery van that went a 930,000 miles with 30,000 mile oil changes: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2578.pdf?zo=1181889 .

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have to say that we cannot rave about Amsoil not having any problems with extended drains becuase there are somethings that work in Amsoil's favor. Take the guy who buys a new car, most people in the U.S. keep a car for 3 years and then trade it in or sell it, so the guy who keeps his car for 3 years and then does yearly oil changes sells the car to someone else, they probably do not continue doing the yearly oil changes with Amsoil, its a guy who needs a cheaper car and he probably goes down to Jiffy Lube. Where are all of the Amsoil Customers who buy a new car and have been doing yearly oil changes on the same car for the last 20 years, maybe they need to come on and tell us about there experiences.
Good idea! I know there are some around. Perhaps Pablo or Gary would like to chime in. I'll look to see who I can find. AMSOIL was not used nearly as much 20 years ago as it is today, and not many people keep a vehicle 20 years.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I just see too many risks with doing extended oil drains with Amsoil,
What risks do you see? I haven't seen any problems in the past 6 years, and AMSOIL hasn't seen any in 38 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I see there XL Line as being good for 6 months or 7500 miles, but there full line of 100% synthetic oil's are no better than the XL Line under the driving conditions that most of us see everyday.
Not really. The XL line uses petroleum synthetic base oils and a weaker additive package since it is not designed for higher drain intervals. The rest of the AMSOIL line uses chemical synthetic base oils and a better additive package for greatly extended drain intervals.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: The other problem I see with extended drains is oil consumption, so the oil is either being consumed or burned off, are you telling your extended drain customers to check there oil often. I am thinking the majority of people who do extended drains just put the oil in and forget it.
Yes, I tell them and recommend them ordering an extra quart or two in case they need to top off their oil. I check mine at nearly every gas stop, mostly because I get bored pumping gas and like to look at everything under the hood.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Extended Drains are fine for perfect driving conditions and spending money on UOA's to see how long you can run the oil, but why not save money on the UOA and just do either 5000 mile or 7500 mile OCI's.
They don't have to be perfect driving conditions, only normal as defined by your owners manual and AMSOIL. UOA's are not required if you follow AMSOIL's oil change intervals, only if you think your vehicle may not be in good condition mechanically, or if you want to extend your oil drain intervals beyond AMSOIL's recommendations, and many of my customers do.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I am also willing to bet that most Amsoil Dealers do not even do extended drains, so if they are not doing extended drains, then why are they pushing Amsoil for extended drain OCI's.
All of the AMSOIL Dealers I know extend their oil change intervals. I double the OCI in my 2006 BMW K1200LT, five times the OCI in my 1993 and 2008 motorhomes, double in my 2006 Honda Civic Si I-vTec, and double for my 1997 Chevy Venture minivan. I just change all my vehicles and equipment once a year, as per AMSOIL. Pablo and Gary Allen do extended oil changes also. Do you know of any AMSOIL dealers that don't do extended oil drain intervals?
Tim, with all of the UOA's I have seen with Amsoil's 100% synthetic oil's it seems that some guys run the oil out to maybe 12,000 miles or so, and Blackstone might only recommend that they take the oil out maybe 2000 or 3000 more miles, I have not seen Blackstone say go ahead and take this oil out to 20,000 or 25,000 miles.

I am glad you are talking with your customers about there driving conditions and then that way you can recommend the suitable Amsoil motor oil. I am not slamming Amsoil here, I have used there oil's as well as there other products, like there greases, powersteering fluid, diff fluid, and trans fluid. I see no problems with amsoil's gear lubes and trans fluids going for a long time since there is no air introduced into these units and they do not have to worry about combustion byproducts.

My concerns with Amsoil are the extended oil change intervals that I feel will lead to problems down the road, remember you need to keep your customers happy and as long as you communicate with them hopefully they will be happy with Amsoil and keep buying the product.

The same goes for the powersteering fluid, no introduction of air or any combustion byproducts.

I believe Pablo has done some extended drains, but I think Gary rarely does extended drains.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, with all of the UOA's I have seen with Amsoil's 100% synthetic oil's it seems that some guys run the oil out to maybe 12,000 miles or so, and Blackstone might only recommend that they take the oil out maybe 2000 or 3000 more miles, I have not seen Blackstone say go ahead and take this oil out to 20,000 or 25,000 miles.
Here is a 25,000 mile AMSOIL OCI http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...er=252486#Post252486 .

Here is a 15,600 mile run. Blackstone recommends 17,000 miles next time: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1716269#Post1716269

Here is a 14,400 mile with Blackstone recommending 16,000 next time: http://bobistheoilguy.com/foru...rch=true#Post1462008

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I am glad you are talking with your customers about there driving conditions and then that way you can recommend the suitable Amsoil motor oil. I am not slamming Amsoil here, I have used there oil's as well as there other products, like there greases, powersteering fluid, diff fluid, and trans fluid. I see no problems with amsoil's gear lubes and trans fluids going for a long time since there is no air introduced into these units and they do not have to worry about combustion byproducts.

My concerns with Amsoil are the extended oil change intervals that I feel will lead to problems down the road, remember you need to keep your customers happy and as long as you communicate with them hopefully they will be happy with Amsoil and keep buying the product.
Thanks. Not to worry, 99% of my business is reorders, 1% is first time orders. AMSOIL had record sales last year, while the rest of the motor oil industry was down 20%. AMSOIL must be doing something right.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Thanks. Not to worry, 99% of my business is reorders, 1% is first time orders. AMSOIL had record sales last year, while the rest of the motor oil industry was down 20%. AMSOIL must be doing something right.


You seem very optimistic about Amsoil Motor Oil's, just remember the GF-5 rating will soon be coming out, and at least on BITOG, Amsoil is not the favorite oil on that site, seems Pennzoil Platinum is the favorite oil now. I am just wondering if Amsoil will even meet the new GF-5 specs, because Amsoil does not seem to have much Moly in there oil's.

My cars seem to run better on Pennzoil Platinum than they do on Amsoil Motor Oil's.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Thanks. Not to worry, 99% of my business is reorders, 1% is first time orders. AMSOIL had record sales last year, while the rest of the motor oil industry was down 20%. AMSOIL must be doing something right.


You seem very optimistic about Amsoil Motor Oil's, just remember the GF-5 rating will soon be coming out, and at least on BITOG, Amsoil is not the favorite oil on that site, seems Pennzoil Platinum is the favorite oil now. I am just wondering if Amsoil will even meet the new GF-5 specs, because Amsoil does not seem to have much Moly in there oil's.
AMSOIL will easily meet the new GF-5 specs. GF-5 just brings the other oils a little closer to AMSOIL. AMSOIL gets their additive packages from Lubrizol and other top additive package companies who have already developed the GF-5 packages. Pablo said AMSOIL is field testing their new GF-5 now. I think it is pretty bizarre how some people think the 4,000 mile/ 4 month warranted Pennzoil Platinium is a better oil than the 35,000 mile/12 month warranted AMSOIL. AMSOIL has offered 25,000 mile/12 month oil for 38 years now. You would think the majors would have caught up by now.
Reading this thread just makes me realize why I HATE the way Amsoil chooses to market its products like tupperware,amway,etc.....every discussion ends up with a product "salesman" spewing and defending ........good grief enough is enough....wonder how many others this type of product distribution totally turns off and results in anti-customers?????
quote:
Originally posted by qship96:
Reading this thread just makes me realize why I HATE the way Amsoil chooses to market its products like tupperware,amway,etc.....every discussion ends up with a product "salesman" spewing and defending ........good grief enough is enough....wonder how many others this type of product distribution totally turns off and results in anti-customers?????
I'm just answering questions asked of me and using references to back my statements up. What is wrong with that?
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:I see there XL Line as being good for 6 months or 7500 miles, but there full line of 100% synthetic oil's are no better than the XL Line under the driving conditions that most of us see everyday.


quote:
Not really. The XL line uses petroleum synthetic base oils and a weaker additive package since it is not designed for higher drain intervals. The rest of the AMSOIL line uses chemical synthetic base oils and a better additive package for greatly extended drain intervals.


Is there any advantage to using the next best oil above XL if one is not going to go the maximum oci route?
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:


Is there any advantage to using the next best oil above XL if one is not going to go the maximum oci route?
Not really. If people want to change their oil up to 7500 severe or normal service miles or up to 6 months which ever comes first, or longer if the owners manual permits it or if the OLM says you can go longer, that is the oil I recommend. However, I let these low mileage customers know that for a dollar or two more a quart they can get a 1 year, 15,000 mile severe service oil and many see the value in that. And the full chemical synthetic oils tend to give a little better fuel economy, lower engine temperatures a little, provide easier startups at extremely low temperatures, and protect a little better at extremely high temperatures. I try to recommend the lowest cost per mile oil that meets their needs.
quote:
Originally posted by qship96:
Reading this thread just makes me realize why I HATE the way Amsoil chooses to market its products like tupperware,amway,etc.....every discussion ends up with a product "salesman" spewing and defending ........good grief enough is enough....wonder how many others this type of product distribution totally turns off and results in anti-customers?????


It is a major turn off isn't it? Some of the reps sit at the keyboard all day long waiting to jump in to sell, or defend, they Police thse boards. You won't see a good company like RL do that, will you?

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by qship96:
Reading this thread just makes me realize why I HATE the way Amsoil chooses to market its products like tupperware,amway,etc.....every discussion ends up with a product "salesman" spewing and defending ........good grief enough is enough....wonder how many others this type of product distribution totally turns off and results in anti-customers?????


It is a major turn off isn't it? Some of the reps sit at the keyboard all day long waiting to jump in to sell, or defend, they Police thse boards. You won't see a good company like RL do that, will you?

AD

I do wish more motor oil reps and vehicle manufacturers would join these forum conversations. There are some posters that make up stuff about products, warranties, law, etc. and expect others to take this as absolute truth without challenge. They mislead others into making poor decisions based on myths. No facts or references presented. Some industry reps have tried to participate with factual data and expert opinions, but the internet bullies make things hard on them and leave. BITOG used to have more industry experts participate but gave up. I haven't been here long enough to know if it has happened here as well.
80K miles on Motorcraft 5w20 blend [Re: G-MAN]
TimVipond Offline


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 1049
Loc: Sugar Land, TX
UOA's do not speak for themselves. I don't see where the Motorcraft UOA's are any better than the others. They require interpretation by experts. They are only a $20 analysis. I suppose if this particular UOA came back fine, then you would say this engine is in fine shape?

I may think Amsoil is pretty good oil. The best I've found. I am also a retired Shell scientist with 28 years oil and chemical experience. And you are a ........"let's face it".....lawyer?
_________________________
To purchase Amsoil products, please contact one of the BITOG Amsoil Site Sponsors: Pablo, Don Stefanik, or Gary Allan.


This is Tim Vipond's last post on Bitog, and here comes someone else's response.

Re: 80K miles on Motorcraft 5w20 blend [Re: TimVipond]
Bill in Utah Offline


Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 8447
Loc: UT

Quote:
UOA's do not speak for themselves. I don't see where the Motorcraft UOA's are any better than the others. They require interpretation by experts. They are only a $20 analysis. I suppose if this particular UOA came back fine, then you would say this engine is in fine shape?

I may think Amsoil is pretty good oil. The best I've found. I am also a retired Shell scientist with 28 years oil and chemical experience. And you are a ........"let's face it".....lawyer?



Thats a low blow.

(*IF* I was a admin, you'd would have been read only a LONG time ago.)

Don't be surprised if you are now...

(You forgot to also STATE that your a retired Shell scientist with 28 years oil and chemical experience SELLING Amsoil and 98% of your posts are AMSOIL related)

Its amazing if the UOA is steller with your brand, then UOAs are the cats meow.

If its not good, then you can't trust a low cost UOA.

But Amsoil pushes UOAs to test how well their oils are performing for extended UOAs and to see when to change oil.

Amazing...

You should take lessons from Pablo and Gary on how to post here. They would be the first to tell others that there are other brands of WELL PERFORMING oils and AMSOIL is not the ONLY choice.

I buy and use Amsoil. But, its not the only oil I use and I've taken many an engine/transmission and running gear over hundreds of thousands of miles before even hearing of Amsoil.

Back to the 80k mile engine here. There is something wrong with it. Amsoil STATES that their warrenty is only valid in engines WITHOUT problems. So much with the warrenty.

Until we find out WHAT is wrong with it, OIL choice is the last thing to be talking about IMO.

Bill

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=939364&page=1
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Here is that thread in it's entirety: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=939413&page=2

Here is his comment that I responded to: "Did you read his post? He said he doesn't know what the previous owner used for the first 32K miles. As for Motorcraft, the UOAs speak for themselves.

Let's face it Tim, you're an Amsoil koolaid drinker. " He "stepped down" as a moderator shortly after.


I have read all of your posts on BITOG, Amsoil, Amsoil, Amsoil.

It seems you angered quite a few members on that board, and the guy named Bill In Utah who responded to you is now a Moderator, he calls it like he sees it, your doing the same thing here, jumping into a Redline Thread and pushing Amsoil while you try and slam Redline, that's not cool, and that's why you are not posting on Bitog.
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