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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

For the vehicles in my family I feel I have a proven winner in Redline.

1) 96 Mustang GT
2) 99 Mustang Cobra
3) 86 Corvette
4) 75 Corvette

I also have the 87 Ranger, and my sons's 91 Bronco...These will continue to see whats on sale.

In the 4 listed vehicles I was using Mobil 1 and Mobil EP at the end.. Great oil's on their own, but I always seemed to suffer from burnoff and had to top off.

I also noticed what others have always mentioned, a noisier engine. I have never done a UOA to follow any possible wear patter. Like I mentioned great performing oils but the 2 issues always stuck out at me.

I will stick with the 10W-30, but am considering the 5W-40 flavor for the 75. The HTHS on that oil is 4.6. The viscosity at 100 Deg. C is a whopping 15.1, pour point of -49F. For this 35 y/o Chevy I thinks those are good numbers. Perhaps even add 1 qt. of the 40W redline race oil for an extra dose of moly and zinc.

Since switching over to Redline I no longer suffer from burnoff like I did with Mobil 1, at the most maybe a 1/2 qt per 6k...Maybe...

If anybody has any suggestions or comments I am open to listening to them...Thanks.
Last edited {1}
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Never heard anything bad about the oil. I wouldn't use it myself as it doesn't meet what I want. But...

They have distributors the world over.

They have more than one grade.

If I was to use it, a dealer is only 6 miles away.

If it works for you, stick with it.

6100 Egret Court, Benicia, CA 94510 you can actually see on google satellite.
Last edited by trajan
I actually purchased 2 cases of 10W-30 from racer parts wholesale through Amazon. I believe it worked out to $9.95 QT.

I have about 15-20k in fun money to build a beast. Just going to research things slowly so I buy things only once.

What about the idea of running 5W-40? I mean in the Seattle area we don't see to big extremes of temps...In any case it wouldn't be driven in inclimate conditions anyway. Would that oil provide a level of protection above and beyond the 10W-30? Of course the 5W-40 grade would only be used in the Corvette.

Nice subtle dig by the way. Cool
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Having now tried both RL and Amsoil I would use RL. IMO the engine sounded better with the RL. I think they use better additives, and lots of moly. Hope I don't get flamed, I call it like I see it.

AD


AD, you are not going to get flamed, at least not from me, then again I am a pretty mellow Bear.

Redline Products are top notch, and Dave, the guy many of us talk too over at Redline is a great guy. I think there oil's will keep an engine cleaner than Amsoil's motor oil's. I believe Amsoil's oil's are kind of old school, some of there oil's do not have Moly in them, and I have noticed my cars run better when I put in some Moly Additive, and Redline Oil's seem to have alot of Moly in them, since Moly is one of the most expensive additives in oil then I can see why Redline's oil's are a bit more expensive. So if Redline seems to be making your engine run better, then you might as well stick with it.

I think when I do my next Gear Oil Change I will be trying Redline Gear Oil instead of purchasing more Amsoil Gear Oil.
Yea I might give their gear oil a shot too. My father was getting me the Amsoil, but the PC fee is a turn off, he used it for a year and decided not to pay for the PC fee anymore.

From all I've been reading I think RL is a better product for the money. But then again that is my opinion, and what is one mans opinion worth? Well my father and uncle feel the same way too, so there's 3 opinions.

AD
Redline's price is about on par with other high end oils. Amazon has the 75w-140 for about 14 a quart now. Not bad, considering RP is about 18 and M-1 about 18 for that viscosity. It really quieted the diff down, especially low speed backing and highway cruise. I have stock exhaust, so I can hear power train noise. But this summer, watch out, Magnaflows are going in!

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Only complaints I ever heard about RL was price. LOL, I never heard or read a bad thing about their products. That my friend is a lot more than I can say for some of the other popular high ticket oils. Big Grin

AD


That's the only bad thing I've heard. Can't quite convince myself to use it, but that takes nothing away from the fact that it's a good oil.
Redline Gear Oil failed 2 basic gear oil tests, foaming and viscosity, according to this white paper http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf .

Does Red Line offer a warranty? I searched "warranty" on their website and found nothing.

This is also not confidence inspiring.
"Q: Will using Red Line products void my vehicle's factory warranty?
Using the appropriate Red Line product shouldn't invalidate your vehicle's warranty and question the mechanic or service manager that says so."
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Redline Gear Oil failed 2 basic gear oil tests, foaming and viscosity, according to this white paper http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf .

Does Red Line offer a warranty? I searched "warranty" on their website and found nothing.

This is also not confidence inspiring.
"Q: Will using Red Line products void my vehicle's factory warranty?
Using the appropriate Red Line product shouldn't invalidate your vehicle's warranty and question the mechanic or service manager that says so."
Provided it's the correct viscosity, it will not.
Thanks all for your great feedback...I would also like to point out absent a certain member, we manage to communicate without any drama or attacks.

Since we are on the subject of Redline products...Any feedback concerning the Redline D4 ATF? The Corvette I see as a 1-2 year project...With my job I'm gone a good 8-9 months...The engine/transmission will be replaced with high performance one's. So the Redline products I feel will serve me well.

I am looking forward to enjoying it for a couple more weeks before flying out for a few months...Thsnks all.
Consider lubrication engineers 1150 trans all for the automatics. I buy it in the 5 gallon pails for my automatic trans cars. A very large transmission cooler will make more of a difference than any oil you choose here. Red line MTL for my sons 5 speed focus. Tried red line 75-140 in the mitchel under drive in my f-250. Straight lucas pure synthetic oil stabilizer is much better. Less noise and smoother shifts. I use tractor hydraulic and lucas synthetic 50% each in the f-250 5 speed instead of ATF. Its better in every respect than atf except in very cold weather,and even then it clears up in less than 5 mile of driving. The 5-40 is a little thick for your mustangs. 0-20 or 5-20 redline would be better there. I tried 5-40 delvac in my Lincoln when I was buying it in bulk for my freightliner. Its a little heavy for this engine. That only gets worse if the lucas synthetic additive is used with it. The ford modular engine likes thin oil PERIOD. The small block chevy would probobly be happy with the used oil I take out of my freghtliner after 30000 miles. But if you want to spoil it like a grand child 5- 40 redline will be over kill enough to make you happy.

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quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Thanks all for your great feedback...I would also like to point out absent a certain member, we manage to communicate without any drama or attacks.

Since we are on the subject of Redline products...Any feedback concerning the Redline D4 ATF? The Corvette I see as a 1-2 year project...With my job I'm gone a good 8-9 months...The engine/transmission will be replaced with high performance one's. So the Redline products I feel will serve me well.

I am looking forward to enjoying it for a couple more weeks before flying out for a few months...Thsnks all.


Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.

My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.

Some of these reps will tell you exactly what you want to hear. No RL reps here attacking, defending, or pushing. Sorry guys, but that's how I see it in a lot of these threads, and it gets old man.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.
For those who have a qualified business, there is no fee to buy at wholesale. By far, most of my customers fall in this category, only 13% pay a membership fee. I only suggest the $10 membership if it saves them more than that on their first order, which it usually does. It also gets them a 32 page wholesale catalog, a monthly subscription to AMSOIL Action News and some other promotional items. And they get 10% off retail after their membership expires. Not a bad deal for $10. And for some tight budgeted college students I know, I have waived the $10 fee.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.
No manufacturer requires an API certified motor oil, it just needs to meet API specifications. If you don't see the listed vehicle manufacturers API classification listed on a motor oil, then I don't think you should use it. AMSOIL motor oils meet the API specifications, and have never voided a warranty in 38 years. And if the oil ever does fail, you are covered by the AMSOIL warranty.
Last edited by timvipond
I'm not fond of oils that don't have API/ACEA approval either.

But I have to wiegh that against the fact that RL isn't a shady operation. That they operate the world over. That I can buy it in an actual brick and mortar store. That they don't rail against third party UOA/VOA tests.

Amsoil is a good oil as well. And XL is API certed. But, not one I use.

Warranty wise, I don't think it's an issue with the users in this thread.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.
For those who have a qualified business, there is no fee to buy at wholesale. By far, most of my customers fall in this category, only 13% pay a membership fee. I only suggest the $10 membership if it saves them more than that on their first order, which it usually does. It also gets them a 32 page wholesale catalog, a monthly subscription to AMSOIL Action News and some other promotional items. And they get 10% off retail after their membership expires. Not a bad deal for $10. And for some tight budgeted college students I know, I have waived the $10 fee.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.
No manufacturer requires an API certified motor oil, it just needs to meet API specifications. If you don't see the listed vehicle manufacturers API classification listed on a motor oil, then I don't think you should use it. AMSOIL motor oils meet the API specifications, and have never voided a warranty in 38 years. And if the oil ever does fail, you are covered by the AMSOIL warranty.


Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.

The family was in the automotive business and knows how it works. Cars sit in lots waiting for these things to get sorted out. Yea it could be 1 in 10,000, but not worth it. OTOH I have more faith in the RL people and would use their product first. As the saying goes, to each is own.

AD
I spoke with Dave at RL, honest, standup, good guy. I'd have no problem dealing with them at all. I just don't care for Amsoil's way of doing business anymore. Seems like an easy way for people to make some extra cash, with about $50 out of pocket expense. It just don't float my boat.

The other thing I wonder about is since dealers are paid a commission, then if they sign up new dealers, they get a little cut from them, I think? Lots of money changes hands, that all gets added into the cost.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.
Usually everything is taken care of in a few phone calls. No lawyer has been needed. I think the vehicle manufacturers might be aware that no one has proved AMSOIL has caused an oil related failure in 38 years, so they back down.

The AMSOIL rep really has nothing to do with it. No need to take the word of the AMSOIL rep. when the warranty is clearly spelled out and easily accessible on the website.

The claim is filed and taken care of by AMSOIL directly. When in doubt, AMSOIL has paid the claim to get the vehicle back on the road ASAP, then goes after the manufacturer. No fuss, no muss. If there was, you'd hear people screaming about it on the internet. Now if the oil you use does not have a warranty, then you are likely in trouble, and the scenerio you described will likely be true.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

The other thing I wonder about is since dealers are paid a commission, then if they sign up new dealers, they get a little cut from them, I think? Lots of money changes hands, that all gets added into the cost.

AD


Dealers are never paid for signing up a new dealer. Only if the new dealer makes some sales, and it is a small amount ( I have 15 dealers that I have trained and get less than 10% of my income from them. Over 90% of my income comes from direct sales with my customers).

Compare that to traditional oil companies that have sales staff that get paid salary plus commission, and help pay for their sales manager, secretary, overhead, etc. Much less money changes hands with AMSOIL compared to traditional oil companies (I retired from Shell Oil) who pay foreign countries for crude oil, tens of thousands of employees, have to build huge refineries and chemical plants, pay their dozens of levels of management, pay their sales staff, pay their distribution system, pay their retailers, pay for huge bonuses and retirements, pay for skyscrapers and corporate jets, etc. And now they are laying off thousands of employees which hurt our economy.

AMSOIL commissions are small compared to traditional oil company costs. Plus it allows thousands of people to start their own business in a climate where few jobs are available, which helps our economy. The interesting thing is that AMSOIL is setting record sales which have doubled in the last 4 years, while the traditional motor oil business was down 20% last year.

If you don't like dealing with an AMSOIL dealer, you can always order factory direct.
Last edited by timvipond
I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all to be honest Tim. I tried their products, thought they were OK for a while then realized they were nothing great, just hype.

I don't care for their business model either, or the way their reps watch every thread for comments about the product, then chime in and try to defend or push for a sale. Reminds me of a company pushing some expensive engine cleaner. IMO its a real turn off. I have some dialogue with friends on other sites that aren't thrilled with the product, the high prices, and the shipping costs either. Its a boutique high priced product, but not for this Sailor.

I also have a hard time wrapping my brain around them backing a product like SSO or ASM if there is a problem related to oil. They'll fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. I'd fare better with something that has the API certs or RL as a company, all the motor heads I know say RL blows Amsoil away.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all to be honest Tim. I tried their products, thought they were OK for a while then realized they were nothing great, just hype.
What hype? I've found AMSOIL to back their claims with undisputed data, the longest recommended oil and filter changes, and the best warranty in the business. It was the oil change intervals and warranty that sold me. 1 oil change a year for each of my 4 vehicles instead of 5 a year per vehicle was exactly what I wanted.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I don't care for their business model either, or the way their reps watch every thread for comments about the product, then chime in and try to defend or push for a sale. Reminds me of a company pushing some expensive engine cleaner. IMO its a real turn off. I have some dialogue with friends on other sites that aren't thrilled with the product, the high prices, and the shipping costs either. Its a boutique high priced product, but not for this Sailor.
I like their business model. I found running an AMSOIL business is very low risk and probably the easiest business to run. No deliveries, no store, no bill collecting, no inventory, work when I feel like it, don't work when I don't (a real plus for me since I am undergoing cancer chemotherapy). My customers are thrilled with the product once they try it. I've had the same customers since I started 6 years ago and reorders are by far my biggest income. Their price of oil per warranted mile is lower than with any other oil they've used. There are no shipping charges if you pick up at the warehouses or retail stores. AMSOIL, an American owned family company, purchases from American vendors, is blended and bottled by Americans, and is sold by Americans. The money stays here. And the business model is probably the most successful for motor oils with increased market share every year for 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I also have a hard time wrapping my brain around them backing a product like SSO or ASM if there is a problem related to oil. They'll fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. I'd fare better with something that has the API certs or RL as a company, all the motor heads I know say RL blows Amsoil away. AD


There has never been a problem with AMSOIL backing any of their products. I sell to over 370 accounts for 6 years and there has never been a problem. AMSOIL sells to over 1500 government agencies and some of the largest fleets in America. In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles. No problems. And of course, if API certifications are important to you, AMSOIL offers 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 that are API certified. I don't see that Red Line has any API certified oils. How does RL blow AMSOIL away? Any data? All the undisputed independent test data I've seen (and can share if you like) shows AMSOIL outperforms Red Line.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles.


I don't have a dog in this hunt, but can you back that one?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

In Texas, the Texas Department of Public Safety has 3500 police cars that used to change their oil every 2,000-3,000 miles with other oils (severe service) have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years changing AMSOIL oil and filters every 20,000 miles.

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:I don't have a dog in this hunt, but can you back that one?

Sure. I've had several DPS vehicles contact me looking for AMSOIL as they ran low and needed oil and filters. They told me that all the DPS cars use AMSOIL and change at 20,000 mile intervals. I've spoken to several DPS and they tell me how happy they are to run AMSOIL at 20,000 mile oil change intervals. Feel free to contact them and ask. From the Texas DPS budget: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/d...contract_listing.pdf
PURCHASE ORDERS/CONTRACTS
ACTIVE AS OF 12/17/09

06-754 06/08/06 6-36019 AMSOIL INC $121,572.02MOTOR OIL, 100% SYNTHETIC
06-939 09/11/06 6-36021 AMSOIL INC $128,192.59AIR & OIL FILTERS

Here is an article:
In 2001

The Texas Department of Public Safety
and Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants (Inc.)
Superior, Wisconsin

conducted a field test to determine the cost effectiveness and engine wear protection provided by AMSOIL products in severe service applications.

Amsoil 5W-30 Motor Oil and Super Duty Oil Filters were installed in five police vehicles. No oil changes were performed during the 24,000 mile testing period.

AT the 12,000 mark, the oil filters were changed and one quart of oil was added to each vehicle to replace the oil lost with the filter change out.

The Texas Department of Public Safety police fleet vehicles were 1999 Ford Crown Victoria patrol cars. The initial cost breakdown with AMSOIL products is as follows:

Oil Cost $4.00/qt x 5 qts = $20.00
Amsoil SDF Oil Filters $7.00 x 2 = $14.00
Oil for filter change (one quart) $4.00
Labor $10.00 x 2 = $20.00
Total: $ 58
Totals Based on US. Commercial
ASL Pricing Per Case.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Using conventional petroleum oil for
the standard 3,000 mile drain intervals,
the Department invests $176 per vehicle

over the 24,000 mile testing period.
Oil Cost $1.75/qt x 40 qts = $70.00 Oil Filters $3.25 x 8 = $26.00
Labor $10.00 x 8 = $80.00 Total $ 176 Without even taking into consideration the superior protection and performance
AMSOIL motor oil offers over a conventional lubricant,
The Texas Department of Public Safety saves $118 per
vehicle in lubricant expenses alone.

When extending these savings to all nine vehicles in the
Canyon office, AMSOIL motor oil
saves the department $ 1062.

Taken even further,
If all 100 vehicles in the district switched to AMSOIL
motor oil and SDF oil filters for drain intervals of 24,000
miles, they would save

$ 11,800.

If all 3,000 vehicles statewide made the switch,
the State of Texas Tax payers would save a staggering

$ 354,000

in lubricant costs alone ... not including the reduced
amount of fuel consumption that accompanies Amsoil
Synthetic Lubricants use > in all motor vehicles.
Spectra Analysis results of one of the test vehicles showed
that the superior lubricating properties of AMSOIL
Synthetic 5W-30 Motor OIl provided outstanding protection
and performance throughout an extended drain life. AMSOIL
Synthetic 5W-30 retained its stable operating viscosity
throughout the trial, and contaminants such as iron and
lead were virtually nonexistent.
YOU are loosing money by being conditioned to think that it
is "Normal" for repair costs to be high ...
It is not ...

Repair costs being high are a result in using medium to
mediocre products to protect that are not capable
of doing the job that they were sold to do.


And another:

AMSOIL INC., together with Dealer Jerry Criswell and the Texas Department of Public Safety, conducted a field test of its 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil and SDF Oil Filters. Installed in five police fleet vehicles, the lubricant was sampled and tested at various intervals. The goals for this particular field test included demonstrating that the use of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil for extended drain intervals would not only result in lower lubricant expenses, but also superior wear protection. When taking advantage of the extended drain intervals of AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil, it costs the Texas Department of Public Safety $57.20 to lube one vehicle (5 quart capacity) for 24,000 miles:

2002 Figures: 2007 Figures:
Oil Cost ($3.90/qt x 5 qts) $19.50 Oil Cost ($4.05/qt x 5 qts) $20.25
SDF Oil Filters ($6.90 x 2) $13.80 Ea Oil Filter ($7.90 ea) $7.90
Oil @ filter change (one qt) $ 3.90 No add'l filter change $0.00
Labor ($10.00 x 2) $20.00 Labor ($10.00 x 1) $10.00
$57.20 $38.15

If using a conventional 5W-30 lubricant for standard 3000-mile oil and filter drain intervals, it would cost the Texas Department of Public Safety approximately $176 to lube one vehicle (5 quart capacity) for 24,000 miles. For example:

Oil Cost ($1.75/qt x 40 qts) $70.00
Oil Filters ($3.25 x 8) $26.00
Labor ($10.00 x 8) $80.00
$176.00

Without even taking into consideration the superior protection and performance AMSOIL motor oil offers over a conventional lubricant, the Texas Department of Public Safety saves $118.80 per vehicle in lubricant expenses alone. When extending these savings to all nine vehicles in the Canyon office, AMSOIL motor oil saves the department $1069.20. Taken even further, if all 100 vehicles in the district switched to AMSOIL motor oil and SDF oil filters for drain intervals of 24,000 miles, they would save $11,880. (almost all DPS vehicles throughout Texas now use AMSOIL)

Of course, extended drain intervals are no bargain if they compromise engine protection. Even though it was in service 13 times longer than the previous conventional oil, the rates of wear with AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil were significantly lower. The oil analysis results of one test vehicle are shown below, and the results were typical of all five test vehicles. The first line represents the petroleum oil baseline at 1,749 miles. As one can see, the rates of wear with AMSOIL 5W-30 are significantly lower than the petroleum oil, even at extended drain intervals.

Note: Oil analysis is recommended for all fleet applications to determine proper drain intervals.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, I tried Amsoil, the family tried Amsoil, you can pitch till you get tired, you won't be selling me on it again. I talk to a machinist friend of the family my father worked with him since in the early 70's, he's still in business. He's rebuilt thousands & thousands of engines, and has done work for dealerships all over the metro NY area. I haven't seen him since I moved to WA, but we spoke about RL, Amsoil, and M1 many times, we talk all when ever I see him. He's seen engines run on each and everyone of these oils. RL hands down the winner, when it comes to keeping an engine clean, and reduced wear via visual inspection, and measurement. I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over. Then there was a dude that had a HP Buick GN that had some impressive UOA reports and an engine that was shot upon visual inspection and measurement. He posts on the other site. I'll take info from pros vs some data Amsoil or any company publishes. I'm sure RL has their own tests showing their products to be superior, as does Mobil, Pennzoil, and Castrol. Marketing, and exaggerating facts is easy, as is using a 4 ball wear test to show oil quality.

As I said, you won't sell me on the stuff, sorry guy.

I wonder how many people ran those filters they were redesigning, these:
Amsoil announces it is re-designing, re-engineering the few smaller affected filters. EAO 9, 10, 13, 57. They aren't up to par for the interval they were sold for. Amsoil rep Gary Allen speaks about it in a thread on Bitog. I wonder how many of those engines life expectancy was cut down as a result of using those filters for extended drain, then having an oil light come on because it is clogged up? The good news is no one will ever know, that should keep Amsoil off the hook for now. I'll bet Amsoil says no harm was done.

My Pop was a salesman at one point in his career, a real good one, he had awards hanging all over his office at home. In fact he could have probably sold an Eskimo air conditioning. He can't sell me on it anymore, but then again he won't use it. Besides I get my facts from real people in the know, not salesman trying to push product for their own gain.

Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Tim, I tried Amsoil, the family tried Amsoil, you can pitch till you get tired, you won't be selling me on it again.
I'm not pitching anything in this thread. I am merely trying to clear up some myths, half truths and untruths that have shown up in this thread.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:As I said, you won't sell me on the stuff, sorry guy.
You don't have to be sorry. That was never my intention. I'm just correcting the mis-information that was presented.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: I wonder how many people ran those filters they were redesigning, these:
Amsoil announces it is re-designing, re-engineering the few smaller affected filters. EAO 9, 10, 13, 57. They aren't up to par for the interval they were sold for. Amsoil rep Gary Allen speaks about it in a thread on Bitog. I wonder how many of those engines life expectancy was cut down as a result of using those filters for extended drain, then having an oil light come on because it is clogged up? The good news is no one will ever know, that should keep Amsoil off the hook for now. I'll bet Amsoil says no harm was done.
AMSOIL says that only in extremely rare occasions did any problem occur. I've sold hundreds of those particular filters and don't know of any that caused an oil light to come on. And it only seems to be a problem if you drove around a lot after the oil pressure light comes on, which of course you shouldn't do anyway. There are a lot of UOA's on these vehicles and filters and I have not seen one that indicated a problem. I think AMSOIL did the right thing by no longer offering those filters for those applications until they can investigate further and redesign the filters. You can read the latest update at https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...vals.aspx?zo=1181889 .


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.
Last edited by timvipond
There is no doubt that Amsoil makes some great products, there trans fluid, diff fluid, and powersteering fluid are great products, but I have a hard time believing any of there tests, I see them only posting data that is going to make there products look favorable.

As far as being a dealer, it seems that anyone can become a dealer, it would be nice if Amsoil would give some sort of test for anyone that wants to be a dealer, how can you tell if what they are saying is correct, I also see some Amsoil Dealers pushing other products and overhyping Amsoil. I also have a big problem with any Amsoil Dealer who is not really using there products, and instead they are going down to Wal-Mart and using the cheapest oil they can get there hands on.

I also do not buy Amsoil being an extended drain oil, the only time you can extend your OCI is if you are doing alot of highway driving and not doing the short trip soccer mom thing. I saw a Synthetic Oil Life Study where Amsoil motor oil's started to thicken up after 7000 miles. I believe Amsoil is catering to people who just do not want to do the normal oil changes, and in the long run many people who do extended drains will pay the price.

I do not buy that Amsoil 100% Synthetic Oil can go 25,000 miles, I have seen UOA's on this oil where the oil was shot by 18,000 miles.

There was a member on BITOG who ran Amsoil 15,000 miles and his valvetrain was all incrusted with junk, he regrets leaving Amsoil in for that long of a time. He tried arx to clean the valvetrain up, and nothing happened, so now he is trying a product called Kreen.

Motor Oil's are changing again since many will have to meet the new GF-5 rating, I cannot take a chance on Amsoil meeting that spec. I have noticed that Amsoil will not clean up any deposits in an engine, but it will keep new deposits from forming, I base this on my observations from using there oil. We are now finding that oil's like Pennzoil Platinum do a better job in cleaning up an engine than Amsoil Motor Oil and they are cheaper too.

I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells, I think Amsoil would be better served by having potential buyers visit there website, place there order, and then it can be shipped out from the nearest Amsoil Distribution Center. All of the information about Amsoil Products is on there website. Amsoil could also sell there oil via special order from places like CarQuest, where I ordered my Redline SI.

Some of these Amsoil Dealers are giving the company a bad name, and they are bad mouthing other oil's and pushing certain Amsoil Products over what is best for there customers, alot of these dealers know hardly anything about the product and they do not let the product sell themselves, and some of them will say anything to get your money out of your hands so they can put it in there pocket.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
There is no doubt that Amsoil makes some great products, there trans fluid, diff fluid, and powersteering fluid are great products, but I have a hard time believing any of there tests, I see them only posting data that is going to make there products look favorable.
Their comparison testing is done by certified independent labs using standard ASTM test methods which can be easily reproduced by their competitors. Yet none of them ever challenge the data in 38 years. They would if they could. They have likely run their own tests and see the same results that AMSOIL publishes. That is why I believe the tests. I wish the other oil companies would do similar test comparisons. I think this forces all to make better products and informs the consumer. Much better than talking engines, sludge falling from the sky, robots adding oil, etc.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:As far as being a dealer, it seems that anyone can become a dealer, it would be nice if Amsoil would give some sort of test for anyone that wants to be a dealer, how can you tell if what they are saying is correct,
Actually, they do if you want to become T1 certified as I am. They also have to approve and authorize your dealer website. They provide lots of online training, 7,000 pages of technical information on the website, and formal classroom training.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I also see some Amsoil Dealers pushing other products and overhyping Amsoil. I also have a big problem with any Amsoil Dealer who is not really using there products, and instead they are going down to Wal-Mart and using the cheapest oil they can get there hands on.
What other products do AMSOIL dealers push? Wix, Donaldson, Mann-Hummel, NGK, Mother's, Injen and Trico are business partners with AMSOIL, so maybe you are referring to those? AMSOIL dealers are free to sell or use any product they want. I've exclusively used AMSOIL products since I became a Preferred Customer 7 years ago.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I also do not buy Amsoil being an extended drain oil, the only time you can extend your OCI is if you are doing alot of highway driving and not doing the short trip soccer mom thing. I saw a Synthetic Oil Life Study where Amsoil motor oil's started to thicken up after 7000 miles. I believe Amsoil is catering to people who just do not want to do the normal oil changes, and in the long run many people who do extended drains will pay the price.
. Some oil companies only warranty their oil for up to 3,000 to 4,000 miles or 3 or 4 months, where AMSOIL warrants theirs for 7500 to 35,000 miles and 6 months to a year. And for severe non-highway mileage 7500 to 17,500 miles of soccer mom driving which is also extending the OCI. AMSOIL has had their extended drain oils for 38 years and has never caused an oil related failure, and offers a free warranty if it ever does. That's enough proof for me.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I do not buy that Amsoil 100% Synthetic Oil can go 25,000 miles, I have seen UOA's on this oil where the oil was shot by 18,000 miles.
Could you please post? Was it the first time the oil was used, was it over 12 months, was severe driving involved?

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:There was a member on BITOG who ran Amsoil 15,000 miles and his valvetrain was all incrusted with junk, he regrets leaving Amsoil in for that long of a time. He tried arx to clean the valvetrain up, and nothing happened, so now he is trying a product called Kreen.
Did he use the recommended oil and follow the recommended oil change interval? Did he have a mechanical issue that was involved such as a coolant leak, faulty emissions system, was he using oil additives, the proper oil filter for 15,000 miles, did he contact AMSOIL corporate?

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Motor Oil's are changing again since many will have to meet the new GF-5 rating, I cannot take a chance on Amsoil meeting that spec. I have noticed that Amsoil will not clean up any deposits in an engine, but it will keep new deposits from forming, I base this on my observations from using there oil. We are now finding that oil's like Pennzoil Platinum do a better job in cleaning up an engine than Amsoil Motor Oil and they are cheaper too.
AMSOIL has met all the specs they say they do for 38 years. And they warranty their oil should it not. What chance are you taking? AMSOIL cleaned up my 1997 Chevy Venture minivan when it suffered from the infamous intake manifold gasket leak. It also cleaned up the oil sight glass on my BMW K1200LT. Where do you see that Pennzoil Platinum does a better job in cleaning up an engine than AMSOIL? This oil comparison https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1971.pdf shows Pennzoil Platinum did worse than AMSOIL in all 6 ASTM tests, including TFOUT, volatility, TBN which all indicate better cleaning ability than Pennzoil Platinum.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells, I think Amsoil would be better served by having potential buyers visit there website, place there order, and then it can be shipped out from the nearest Amsoil Distribution Center. All of the information about Amsoil Products is on there website. Amsoil could also sell there oil via special order from places like CarQuest, where I ordered my Redline SI.
What is this Pyramid Scheme you talk about? Pyramid Schemes have been illegal for quite some time and AMSOIL has been in business for 38 years, with no complaints from any government or consumer agency that investigates pyramid schemes. Where do you get this $2 a quart figure? Potential buyers DO visit the AMSOIL website and place their orders and ship it from the nearest AMSOIL distribution center. I have a CarQuest store that has carried AMSOIL, as do a few of my NAPA and O'Reilly stores. Lot's of choices. I provide AMSOIL to nearly 200 retail stores in the US and Canada.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Some of these Amsoil Dealers are giving the company a bad name, and they are bad mouthing other oil's and pushing certain Amsoil Products over what is best for there customers, alot of these dealers know hardly anything about the product and they do not let the product sell themselves, and some of them will say anything to get your money out of your hands so they can put it in there pocket.
The vast majority of the AMSOIL dealers I know do not fit in this category. Actually, I am not aware of any that do. And those that do probably won't be in business very long.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, as far as the UOA on Amsoil at 18,000 miles, I found that information on BITOG in the UOA Section.

The member on BITOG that went 15,000 miles on Amsoil and had junk in the Valvetrain, I found the post on BITOG in the Oil Additive Section. I did read that this Amsoil user did mostly short trip driving. Maybe there was another problem, he could have had a clogged PCV Valve.

Tim, maybe you are an honest Amsoil Dealer, my post was not aimed at you personally, you may be just like my Amsoil Dealer who only uses Amsoil Products and does not try and push product.

I did have a member on BITOG, who Pmed me and he is an Amsoil Dealer, and he was getting tired of certain Amsoil Dealers on that site making claims about Amsoil with no concrete proof, he also uses some Redline Products, and he thinks there are instances where there are some products from Redline that are better than some Amsoil products and vice versa, I do value what he is saying since he is a Ford Master Mechanic.

I have also had other members from BITOG PM Me and they have spoken with some Amsoil Dealers and they are sick and tired of hearing these dealers bash other motor oil's.

I am sure you have many happy Amsoil Customers since you probably let the product sell itself.

All of my thoughts that I post here come from reading new and old posts on BITOG as well as my correspondence with members via PM.

If you think my rant was aimed at you personally, that is not the case. I did enjoy reading your post and look foward to a frinedly debate.
No problem Big Bear. I get a kick out of some of the internet information on AMSOIL. I don't know if they truly believe it, just want to argue, or are just misinformed. I just try to clear things up if I see erroneous AMSOIL info posted. If you ever have a question or concern, go by the info on the official AMSOIL corporate website www.amsoil.com for the correct information on AMSOIL or call the AMSOIL technical hotline listed on the website. I don't think there are any bad oils as long as you follow the recommendations listed by the vehicle manufacturer and the oil company. But there seems to only be one oil that has stood the test of time for warranted extended oil change intervals. That is why I use it. It saves me time and money. And that's why people buy it.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
No problem Big Bear. I get a kick out of some of the internet information on AMSOIL. I don't know if they truly believe it, just want to argue, or are just misinformed. I just try to clear things up if I see erroneous AMSOIL info posted. If you ever have a question or concern, go by the info on the www.amsoil.com website for the correct information on AMSOIL website or call the AMSOIL technical hotline listed on the website. I don't think there are any bad oils as long as you follow the recommendations listed by the vehicle manufacturer and the oil company. But there seems to only be one oil that has stood the test of time for warranted extended oil change intervals. That is why I use it. It saves me time and money. And that's why people buy it.


Tim, I reread this whole thread and it seems you have been in business for about 6 years or so. It would be nice if you joined us on BITOG, but I think you may already be a member.

I hope you understand why there is some skepticism towards Amsoil, and it maybe unfair, but on BITOG we did have an oil additive that was once a sponsor and we found out it did not live up to the claims. Again, everything I post is not something that I makeup in my head, I like to base my response on products from my observations as well as others.

I can also remember when Mobil 1 was recommending extended drains back in the late 1970's or early 1980's and they stopped doing this becuase some people were having engine failures, they were not checking there oil level from what I remember. I am hoping that any of your Amsoil Customers as well as other Amsoil Customers who do extended drains are at least checking there oil level once a month or every 2 weeks or so. I always check my oil level once a week, it might be anal, and sometimes the oil level is fine and other times I may have to add a few ounces of oil.
quote:


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.




Yes I'll use non certified RL over Amsoil because it is a better product. I have no doubts at all about RL oil.

Amsoil's writings about their defective filters doesn't cut it either. If there wasn't a problem they wouldn't have to redesign them would they? Not enough testing to make a blanket statement, seems the real testing was done at the expense of the car owners. No one knows just how much damage was done, just as long as the engine don't knock! Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......

These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?

T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. A family friend was an Amsoil dealer, I'm still not impressed. If I call RL I get to talk to a respected expert in the industry, Amsoil it will be the luck of the draw.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lets not forget: Amsoil has 2 oil 'lines' - their APIcertified 'XL' oils, and their non-API-certified oils - ASL, ATM, SSO...etc... I'd rather not tempt fate using their "top of the line" non API certified oils in a vehicle under warranty.

AD
And yet you use Red Line, that has no API certified oil?
And AMSOIL has never voided any factory warranty in 38 years, and comes with it's own warranty if it ever does. Seems pretty safe to me.




Yes I'll use non certified RL over Amsoil because it is a better product. I have no doubts at all about RL oil.

Amsoil's writings about their defective filters doesn't cut it either. If there wasn't a problem they wouldn't have to redesign them would they? Not enough testing to make a blanket statement, seems the real testing was done at the expense of the car owners. No one knows just how much damage was done, just as long as the engine don't knock! Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......

These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?

T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. A family friend was an Amsoil dealer, I'm still not impressed. If I call RL I get to talk to a respected expert in the industry, Amsoil it will be the luck of the draw.

AD


I think AD makes some good points, the only time an extended drain with Amsoil would not be a risk is if someone had a new car that they switched over to Amsoil at the 3000 mile mark. They could probably do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, those being the guy who lives a mile or so from the Interstate and travel 30 to 50 miles on the interstate to work and back. The same goes for these Amsoil EaO Oil Filters, you need a clean engine in order to run one of these filters for extended drains.

If you do call an Amsoil Dealer, it is true, you will get the luck of the draw, is he a real car guy who has vast knowledge about engines and motor oil's or is he a guy just doing this as a part time job without that much knowledge about cars.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see some guy buys SSO and adds it to his engine, runs 20K and blows the motor, my guess is Amsoil is looking high and low for a way out. Lets see fuel dilution, that sounds like an out. They'll use their own lab too, for sure.......
AMSOIL looks to see if their oil was to blame. It never has been in 38 years. And if it is, it is covered by the AMSOIL warranty. AMSOIL uses a 3rd party to perform oil and parts analysis. You are free to use anyone you choose, as is the auto maker. Never been a problem in 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:These extended drains are high risk, ask anyone who had their oil light come on because of a clogged filter. I guess if the engine isn't knocking then Amsoil dodges the bullet, don't they?
AMSOIL also has a filter warranty: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g300...rantyinformation.pdf .

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. AD
. It is only $35 for the optional 2 inch thick business manual and application guides and includes the T1 Certification Test which is sold at company cost. It has paid for itself several times over with the free leads that AMSOIL sends me. I've had open book tests in college. What is your point? I think the value of the test is that you have to find out how to use the manual to find the information you need to answer the questions. Then when customers ask questions, you know where to find the answers. More like a home study course than a test. But you still have to ace it.
Last edited by timvipond
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:


I think AD makes some good points, the only time an extended drain with Amsoil would not be a risk is if someone had a new car that they switched over to Amsoil at the 3000 mile mark. They could probably do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, those being the guy who lives a mile or so from the Interstate and travel 30 to 50 miles on the interstate to work and back. The same goes for these Amsoil EaO Oil Filters, you need a clean engine in order to run one of these filters for extended drains.
AMSOIL does not have any requirements as to when you start using AMSOIL other than the engine be in good mechanical condition. Most of my customers started with much higher mileage engines and older vehicles. No problems. No risk. You can do extended drains under perfect driving conditions, or severe driving conditions. If you suspect your engine is dirty, you can use the AMSOIL Engine and Transmission flush and then proceed with the recommended AMSOIL extended oil change intervals, or just consider your first AMSOIL oil change as severe mileage for cleanup, then follow the recommended AMSOIL extended oil change intervals.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
If you do call an Amsoil Dealer, it is true, you will get the luck of the draw, is he a real car guy who has vast knowledge about engines and motor oil's or is he a guy just doing this as a part time job without that much knowledge about cars.
True. I think picking the right AMSOIL dealer is important and you should ask about their background if that is important to you. You can always call AMSOIL tech support for professional advice if you need to.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor, but BITOG limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3 and those have been filled for years. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering AMSOIL questions.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor and BITOG currently limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering questions.


That is a satisfactory answer, I know how it can be with some of the moderators over there, that is why I am also not a member anymore on BITOG.
quote:
I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over.


It's about time someone else said the truth about UOA's,besides myself and a handful of others.

Yet,some of you wanted UOA's for the "other" synthetic oil,and considered the 'flawed' results to be gospel'....

Now,once again UOA's are worthless because you don't like amsoil,and that's your way of bashing it too.

So, UOA's only matter when its' convenient for you?

Kirk
quote:


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:T1 certified. Ok lets see, pay $50 IIRC , get a book, take an open book test become T1 Certified. Anyone who can read and pay $50 can become T1 certified. AD
. It is only $35 for the optional 2 inch thick business manual and application guides and includes the T1 Certification Test which is sold at company cost. It has paid for itself several times over with the free leads that AMSOIL sends me. I've had open book tests in college. What is your point? I think the value of the test is that you have to find out how to use the manual to find the information you need to answer the questions. Then when customers ask questions, you know where to find the answers. More like a home study course than a test. But you still have to ace it.



My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert? Why do people bother going to college then? These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
I've read all the UOA's I care to read, a very high % of them are flawed, or have wrong info and have to be done over.


It's about time someone else said the truth about UOA's,besides myself and a handful of others.

Yet,some of you wanted UOA's for the "other" synthetic oil,and considered the 'flawed' results to be gospel'....

Now,once again UOA's are worthless because you don't like amsoil,and that's your way of bashing it too.

So, UOA's only matter when its' convenient for you?

Kirk


I've read UOA reports where they had the wrong car, wrong engine, and wrong oil, eg PP when M1 was used. They were corrected, so the data was flawed. Lets not get started again on the waste oil you were trying to push here. A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, it seems you are a member on BITOG, you had 1049 posts from 1/27/07 up until 7/11/07

I am not going to post your profile, and I know this seems like an investigation, but you post some interesting stuff here, I am just curious why you are not posting on BITOG.

I went to the user list, and just scrowlled down to the letter t and looked at eveyone with the last name beginning with a T, in some posts you tell people if they want to buy Amsoil to check out one of the Amsoil Sponsors on BITOG, since you sell Amsoil I just can't see why you would not want to have an Amsoil Logo like Pablo or Gary Allan and be doing what they are doing on BITOG, is it ok to ask why you are not participating on BITOG.
I had asked to be an AMSOIL BITOG sponsor, but BITOG limits the number of AMSOIL Dealer Sponsors to 2 or 3 and those have been filled for years. I am no longer posting on BITOG because I was in an argument with a BITOG moderator who called me a Kool Aid drinker and I called him a lawyer, which he claimed to be. I guess he took offense to that remark and always lost in our discussions, so he decided to put me on "read only" status. He has since been removed as a moderator. I don't feel a need to post there anymore as Pablo and Gary Allen do a good job in answering AMSOIL questions.




Tim,don't even bother with these guys/guy,or Bobs place(I mean Helen),you are talking to only one guy any way,believe me,I know.

There are way too many other more reasonable people out there to discuss Amsoil,who would be on your level of thinking and will listen and focus on logic.

Bobs place is here now,and so is the mantra with it.

I still use Amsoil products at present such as,the air filters,oil filters,ATF, T-CASE lubes,and saber Professional two stroke oil 100:1.

I would have no problem in a heartbeat if I needed to,switch back to Amsoil motor oil.

Several co-workers of mine use Amsoil products because they knew I used the Amsoil motor oil products years ago and it convinced them at that time of it's benefits. Two of them are marine mechanic/ retired coast guard workers,car collectors,and in the lawn service business, and state they see a big difference over the other stuff they tried.

They will not use anything else..they are that satisfied. They do know of the other oils I use as well,and are curious.


Kirk
quote:
A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.



Who was the 'expert'?? What was the cost of the test. Why is he 'respected',are you drinking buddies,do you know him personally,does he drop by and pull your dipstick in person?... I am the only expert on this forum in a sense,with the that oil,because It's in A-L-L my engines,for many years now.

Are you still calling me liar?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert?
I don't think taking the T1 test makes anyone an expert. It shows that they have an interest in having a successful business, and the ability of how to look up questions and get the correct answers about AMSOIL.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Why do people bother going to college then?
I went to college to learn how to think better, be more open minded and to learn chemistry which got me a chemistry job with Shell Oil company. And to meet college girls!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.
Do you know for sure they are AMSOIL Dealers? Were these dealers T1 Certified? Were their dealer sites Authorized AMSOIL Dealer websites? Can you provide links to these false claims? How do you know they are false?
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
A respected expert checked your oil out, not a $20/report lab.



Who was the 'expert'?? What was the cost of the test. Why is he 'respected',are you drinking buddies,do you know him personally. I am the only expert on this forum in a sense,with the that oil,because It's in A-L-L my engines,for many years now.


Why don't you check him out for yourself?


quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk: Are you still calling me liar?


Am I calling you a liar? Take a guess. Actually several people think you are a liar, and posting under several names.


Lets see if this thread can run 50 pages. Things were dull while you were gone.


AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

My point? Pay $35, take a test and profess to be an expert?
I don't think taking the T1 test makes anyone an expert. It shows that they have an interest in having a successful business, and the ability of how to look up questions and get the correct answers about AMSOIL.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Why do people bother going to college then?
I went to college to learn how to think better and to learn chemistry which got me a chemistry job with Shell Oil company. And to meet college girls!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims. General statement, not directed at you. I've read some real winner stories told by Amsoil reps, and on some of the Amsoil dealers sites.
Do you know for sure they are AMSOIL Dealers? Were these dealers T1 Certified? Were their dealer sites Authorized AMSOIL Dealer websites? Can you provide links to these false claims? How do you know they are false?


As a matter of fact yes they were/are T1 certified. Only I'm not going to waste my time searching for them, try GOOGLE and shoot off a few emails to "dealers" with sites, ask questions, I did. One of these "dealers" was pushing SSO for every application including new cars calling for 5W20 oil. Then swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........

A simple call to Ford Motor Company set me straight. SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20 would be an issue if a warranty claim arose, Ford wouldn't back the warranty with that oil. Why not call Ford and ask for yourself? Tell then Amsoil said it was OK to use SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20, or try Chrylser.

Your resume seems impressive, you might just be the exception and not the rule.

AD
quote:
hen swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........


I already pasted way back all those blown up engines with sludge using everyday oils.........where the warranty was denied because of sludge,even with dealer oil change records. So much for getting your car serviced at the dealer to CYA!

Show us,ADF1,one case of a lawsuit with Amsoil oil in any one of those cars. Show us one of those sludge monster car lawsuits that had warranty issues using Amsoil instead of bulk oil.

The whole reason to use Amsoil,is so you don't have any engine/warranty issues in the first place. Your argument regarding warranty issues makes no sense,nor has any sound fundamental backing with regard to Amsoil.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

These characters can't relate to those concepts,it makes too much sense to them,and has too much purpose,and meaning,such as,girls,nice cars,degree....no way, These forums would be their "wives",degree,and their lives.


How typical. Way to trash an otherwise pleasent thread with more of your off topic, nonsensical, inflammitory rhetoric.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

These characters can't relate to those concepts,it makes too much sense to them,and has too much purpose,and meaning,such as,girls,nice cars,degree....no way, These forums would be their "wives",degree,and their lives.


How typical. Way to trash an otherwise pleasent thread with more of your off topic, nonsensical, inflammitory rhetoric.



NO,it's actually,how typical of you, Trajan,when one of your incarnations is incapable of answering a real question,your strategy is,duck out and hide,and pop in with another incarnation,and still no answer,just more rhetoric.

We all see right through you!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

As a matter of fact yes they were/are T1 certified. Only I'm not going to waste my time searching for them, try GOOGLE and shoot off a few emails to "dealers" with sites, ask questions, I did. One of these "dealers" was pushing SSO for every application including new cars calling for 5W20 oil. Then swearing that Amsoil would back up the warranty on the car if there was a problem because of the oil. Who needs that battle, Amsoil saying engine, Ford saying oil, and the rep saying, Duh, I don't know???????? Sorry man........

A simple call to Ford Motor Company set me straight. SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20 would be an issue if a warranty claim arose, Ford wouldn't back the warranty with that oil. Why not call Ford and ask for yourself? Tell then Amsoil said it was OK to use SSO 0W30 in a new Ford calling for 5W20, or try Chrylser.

Your resume seems impressive, you might just be the exception and not the rule.

AD
It is possible that the dealer could have been correct in suggesting SSO for a new Ford listing 5w20 oil.
For example from the AMSOIL vehicle look up:

2010 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L 8-cyl Engine Code [H]
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
Engine Oil
Grade 1......API*[1]
100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASMQT)
XL 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLMQT)
Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSOQT)
All TEMPS......5W-20
[1] Manufacturer recommends motor oil that is formulated to meet
Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

AMSOIL bases their recommendations on the vehicle manufacturers specifications, in this case Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A, which AMSOIL recommends SSO 0w30. And if AMSOIL makes the recommendation, then AMSOIL also backs it up. And vehicle warranties only cover defects in parts and workmanship, not the oil. If the oil did not cause the failure, then it would be covered by the manufacturer if it was a defect in parts or workmanship. If the oil is at fault, then the AMSOIL warranty comes into play. AMSOIL has not voided any new car warranty with their recommended oils for 38 years. Third party oil and parts analysis easily determines the reason for failure. No battles. To me, this is why it is important to use an oil with a warranty. If a vehicle manufacturer says using AMSOIL will void a warranty, then ask them to put it in writing. At that point they normally back down. If not, send it to AMSOIL who will refresh them on warranty laws.
Last edited by timvipond
Call Ford and ask. If they spec 5W20, they want 5W20, not 0W30!!! PERIOD. What Amsoil says is all fine and dandy, would you gamble with a $30,000 vehicle because Amsoil says they'll get your back? I guess you would you sell the stuff.

Remember SSO doesn't wear the API Starburst, so they can say they meet any spec they want. But they don't have the API stamp on SSO. Ford would like to see that too. The dealer has the right to refuse a claim if the oil they spec wasn't used. Try adding Type F trans fluid to a new GM car see what happens if you have a tranny problem. I mean after all it is tranny fluid isn't it? Only problem, it isn't what GM calls for. Same for SSO in a Ford or Chrysler calling for an API approved 5W20.

If I use the correct oil I don't have to send Amsoil to refresh anyone. After warranty have at it.......

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Call Ford and ask. If they spec 5W20, they want 5W20, not 0W30!!! PERIOD.
Actually they spec Ford WSS-M2C930-A, which AMSOIL recommends SSO and the other 2 oils.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: What Amsoil says is all fine and dandy, would you gamble with a $30,000 vehicle because Amsoil says they'll get your back? I guess you would you sell the stuff.
I don't see a gamble since Ford covers the defects and AMSOIL covers the oil. And I use it in my $90,000 2008 Ford motorhome still under Ford warranty and change at 15,000 miles/1 year instead of Ford's recommended 3,000 miles. No worries at all. A sure bet.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Remember SSO doesn't wear the API Starburst, so they can say they meet any spec they want. But they don't have the API stamp on SSO. Ford would like to see that too. The dealer has the right to refuse a claim if the oil they spec wasn't used. Try adding Type F trans fluid to a new GM car see what happens if you have a tranny problem. I mean after all it is tranny fluid isn't it? Only problem, it isn't what GM calls for. Same for SSO in a Ford or Chrysler calling for an API approved 5W20.

If I use the correct oil I don't have to send Amsoil to refresh anyone. After warranty have at it.......

AD

No vehicle manufacturer requires the voluntary API starburst for warranty coverage. If it is important to you for some reason, then use one. AMSOIL offers a 5w20 that has the starburst. Does Red Line?

The dealer has NO right to refuse a warranty claim. That can only be done by the vehicle manufacturer and they have to state the reason in writing. If your fluids meet the manufacturer's specification, that is all that is required. And the vehicle manufacturer warranty only covers defects, and not the specified fluid. If the specified fluid fails, then it will fall back to the fluid manufacturer. That is why it is important to use a high quality fluid with a good warranty that covers parts and labor.
In my example the MFG specs in writing 5W20, Amsoil says 0W30 is OK. Once again the mfg states in writing 5W20, if the engine fails with oil they don't spec they have the right to refuse the claim. Pretty simple. Then the problems begin. I come from a family with an extensive automotive background. It is not as simple as you think.

Again, I'd rather use RL w/o the Starbusrt than Amsoil w/o the Starburst. Why don't you get that?

Once again, call FMC or Chrysler and ask them if you can use SSO 0W30 in a new car they spec 5W20 for. They will tell you NO.

AD
Right from the Ford site for a 2010 'Stang.

http://www.motorcraftservice.c...LEN/42/10musog2e.pdf

Use SAE 5W-30 engine oil
Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms
to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel
economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and
Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese automobile manufacturers.
To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE 5W-30 or an equivalent SAE 5W-30 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C929-A. Refer to Maintenance product specifications and
capacities later in this section for more information.

The above is the V6. Below the V8:

Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil
Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American
Petroleum Institute (API). An oil with this trademark symbol conforms
to the current engine and emission system protection standards and fuel
economy requirements of the International Lubricant Standardization and
Approval Committee (ILSAC), comprised of U.S. and Japanese
automobile manufacturers.
To protect your engine and engine’s warranty, use Motorcraft SAE
5W-20 or an equivalent SAE 5W-20 oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C930-A. SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and
durability performance meeting all requirements for your
vehicle’s engine. Refer to Maintenance product specifications and
capacities later in this section for more information.

That does leave out RL.
Last edited by trajan
My jeep manual for the v8 says something very similar. It also says that it recommends the 5w-20. No stipulation for mineral,or synthtetic.

The 5w-20 is only mandated for the HEMI. Mineral or synthetic is not really mentioned.

I do know of many people including myself who choose to use whatever weight/grade we desire,even the HEMI users have reported the 0w-30 100% synthetics work fine.

It would seem there is some perception that putting 5w-30 premium synthetic/amsoil in an engine is going to cause the engine to blow up,or develope wear issues because the mfg 'recommends 5w-20/dino oil,thus voiding the warranty............that is impossible.......never happened..........and is against the law.



You see folks,I have a family that used to be in the car business myself.

I was a sun-snap on rep,sister was a chrysler rep/district manager,and we never ever saw or heard of any warranty issues because someone put better/different oil then the manual recomended,such as amsoil,lucas,stp,etc,and got denied.

The issues I saw were cars where the owner forgot/refused to change the factory oil,and the engine blew at 20k with the factory stamped oil filter still on the "leased" car.

I suppose if a customer had straight 50 mineral oil installed in Maine during winter, and blew the cam out......that would be the exception and not very hard to catch.

If you are that 'paranoid',drain whatever oil you have in the pan,and install what the manual 'recommends'...before you go in to have your car serviced for, knocking,tapping,ticking,smoking,piston slapping,chain slapping clunker repaired,from all the damage that a premium syntheic 0w-30 caused.(lol)


However,everthing else,is strickly academic.

A little bit of an explanation to read

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil...0-recommendation.htm
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
In my example the MFG specs in writing 5W20, Amsoil says 0W30 is OK. Once again the mfg states in writing 5W20, if the engine fails with oil they don't spec they have the right to refuse the claim. Pretty simple. Then the problems begin. I come from a family with an extensive automotive background. It is not as simple as you think.

Again, I'd rather use RL w/o the Starbusrt than Amsoil w/o the Starburst. Why don't you get that?

Once again, call FMC or Chrysler and ask them if you can use SSO 0W30 in a new car they spec 5W20 for. They will tell you NO.

AD
So AD, I'll call Ford tomorrow and ask them if using AMSOIL SSO 0w30 will void the warranty for this vehicle:
2010 FORD MUSTANG 4.6L 8-cyl Engine Code [H]
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
Engine Oil
Grade 1......API*[1]
100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASMQT)
XL 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLMQT)
Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSOQT)
All TEMPS......5W-20
[1] Manufacturer recommends motor oil that is formulated to meet
Ford specification WSS-M2C930-A.

Is this correct?
Does the OM call for 5W20 only? Or do they give choices? Who you calling a dealer, or FMC? And finally, I won't use Amsoil based on what you tell me. After all if my engine dies you won't be replacing it.

Oh yea, I already called Ford, and Chrysler I got my answer, or I wouldn't be posting this.

But if you insist, ask them if non API SSO 0W30 ruins the engine that Ford specifically calls for 5W20 will Ford pay for it? Make sure you taylor your question to get the answer you're looking for Tim.

Also ask them what they think of the 25,000 mile filters too. You should ask Toyota about them too while you're on your fact finding mission. I'm not drinking the Kool Aid, sorry.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Does the OM call for 5W20 only? Or do they give choices? Who you calling a dealer, or FMC? And finally, I won't use Amsoil based on what you tell me. After all if my engine dies you won't be replacing it.

Oh yea, I already called Ford, and Chrysler I got my answer, or I wouldn't be posting this.

But if you insist, ask them if non API SSO 0W30 ruins the engine that Ford specifically calls for 5W20 will Ford pay for it? Make sure you taylor your question to get the answer you're looking for Tim.

Also ask them what they think of the 25,000 mile filters too. You should ask Toyota about them too while you're on your fact finding mission. I'm not drinking the Kool Aid, sorry.

AD
So I take it that my question as it stands meets your approval since they only seem to spec 5w20 and the Ford spec for my suggested vehicle. Correct? I'm going to call Ford Motor Company Customer Relations Center in Dearborn, MI 1-800-392-Ford as instructed in my Ford owners manual if that meets your approval. Like I said before, only Ford Motor Oil Company can deny warranty coverage, not the dealer as you said.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Not sure I understand you. If your Ford calls for 5W20 only and is a 2010, XL would be the choice to CYA. Only Amsoil suggests 0W30, all other oil companies will tell you 5W20.

AD
Not true. AMSOIL recommends their 0w20 and 0w30 for the given application, so the AMSOIL warranty would CMA if the oil failed, which it hasn't in 38 years. Ford only warrants against manufacturing defects, not the oil.

Here is Mobil 1's recommendation. Notice they also recommend 0w20, just like AMSOIL. "Oh the horror!"

What's the right oil for my car?


Our products in the viscosity right for your vehicle

We've taken what you told us about your vehicle and driving conditions, and using an auto industry database, have determined our products in the viscosity recommended by your vehicle manufacturer. These products are shown categorized by the level of protection they provide. To learn more about a product, click its name.

Current Vehicle:
Year: 2010
Make: Ford
Model: Mustang
Engine Type: 8cyl. 4.6Liter Naturally Aspirated



Ultimate Protection

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 fully synthetic motor oil is designed for today's longer service intervals. It provides guaranteed performance and protection for 15,000 miles or one year. Mobil 1 Extended Performance products with the Advanced SuperSyn System contain extra performance additives to help deliver outstanding engine protection.

Mobil 1 5W-20
A fully synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 5W-20 with SuperSyn Technology exceeds the industry's toughest standards and outperforms all conventional oils. Mobil 1 is recommended by leading car manufacturers as initial fill.

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy
For improved fuel economy, consider using Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy which is engineered to deliver outstanding engine protection and to offer improved fuel economy in vehicles where SAE 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil is recommended.
He we go round and round. I don't trust the oil company warranty, and I don't trust what a salesman tells me. I trust FMC, they say 5W20 and they'll back their product with an API 5W20 oil. Simple enough?

Besides RL will give me the same warranty as Amsoil, and suggest I use their 5W20 which is what Ford calls for. I feel more comfortable with them. You won't sell me on Amsoil........
AD
Nowhere does it say 0W30 from Mobil. Any fool knows a 0W20 can be used in place of a 5W20, our discussion is SSO 0W30 in a 5W20 application, new vehicle under warranty. I'd trust Mobil over Amsoil too.

You answered your own question a 20 grade oil is right for your car. Ask Pennzoil, bet they say a 20 grade oil too, and not mention a 30 grade. Only Amsoil suggests SSO 0W30, they have a lot invested in it and want to push it.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
He we go round and round. I don't trust the oil company warranty, and I don't trust what a salesman tells me. I trust FMC, they say 5W20 and they'll back their product with an API 5W20 oil. Simple enough?

Besides RL will give me the same warranty as Amsoil, and suggest I use their 5W20 which is what Ford calls for. I feel more comfortable with them. You won't sell me on Amsoil........
AD
Can you provide us with a copy of the Red Line warranty and also show where they warranty up to 35,000 miles?
I'm not interested in selling you on AMSOIL. Only in providing verifiable facts.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nowhere does it say 0W30 from Mobil. Any fool knows a 0W20 can be used in place of a 5W20, our discussion is SSO 0W30 in a 5W20 application, new vehicle under warranty. I'd trust Mobil over Amsoil too.
The Mobil 0w30 does not list the required Ford spec. AMSOIL does. And why did you say that only the AMSOIL 5w20 meets the spec and Ford warranty requirements, when AMSOIL also listed their 0w20? And Castrol makes a 0w20, but do not list it as a recommended oil for the 5w20 Mustang. Perhaps you should call them and let them know how foolish they are? Are you also saying that any 5w20 oil will work, even if they don't list the Ford spec?

quote:
You answered your own question a 20 grade oil is right for your car. Ask Pennzoil, bet they say a 20 grade oil too, and not mention a 30 grade. Only Amsoil suggests SSO 0W30, they have a lot invested in it and want to push it.

AD
The Pennzoil website is so out of date, they don't even list 2010 Mustangs! And they don't even offer a 0w-30! Maybe AMSOIL is the only one that makes a 0w-30 that meets the Ford spec? They are the only one that warranties a 35,000 mile/1 year oil.
Last edited by timvipond
The discussion isn't about 35,000 mile oil? The discussion was about SSO 0W30 being specd for engines calling for a 20 grade oil. Only a fool with a new car and a warranty would use oil for 35,000 miles. RL doesn't make those claims, but if the oil is at fault I'd rather have them in my corner, in the grade the mfg calls for, not something they don't recommend.


Have a look at some UOA's where the TBN of SSO is shot long before 35,000 miles. Remember this isn't a prefect world. How about those filters that can't make the distance, they got caught with their shorts down on that didn't they?

Ford doesn't spec 30 grade oil for all their 2010 engines, most are probably calling for a 20 grade. Amsoil is the only company that lists a 30 grade oil for Ford and Chrylser apps calling for 20 grade oils.

Show me proof where FORD says it is OK to use a 30 grade oil instead of a 20 grade oil in the US for an engine calling specifically for a 20 grade oil. Seems Mobil got it right in your example.

Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO it doesn't have the API approval, and don't have to answer to them. Oh yea they do claim to meet or exceed it though, they just didn't want to pay.


I'll take my chances with RL, on Dave's word alone.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Who is talking about 35,000 mile oil? I'm not, and only a fool with a new car and a warranty would use oil for 35,000 miles.
You said RL gives the same warranty as AMSOIL, yet you can't produce a warranty for even 25,000 miles. Why would only a fool with a new car use an oil for 35,000 normal miles up to a year? The 3500 Texas State Police change every 20,000 severe miles with a lesser oil for the past 10 years. Are they fools also?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: RL doesn't make those claims, but if the oil is at fault I'd rather have them in my corner.
Why? They don't seem to have a warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Have a look at some UOA's where the TBN of SSO is shot long before 35,000 miles. Remember this isn't a prefect world.
The oil has never failed in 38 years when used as recommended, so I doubt the oil is shot. Please post your best example.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Ford doesn't spec 30 grade oil for all their 2010 engines, most probably are calling for a 20 grade. Amsoil is the only company that lists a 30 grade oil for Ford and Chrylser calling for 20 grade oils.
So? Maybe the other SAE 30 oils don't meet the manufacturers specs. And they certainly don't warranty a 35,000 normal mile/1 year oil change interval.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Show me proof where FORD specs a 30 grade oil in the US for that engine. Seems Mobil got it right in your example.
Which engine? Trajen showed a Ford Mustang engine that specs a 30 weight oil a few posts back. And Mobil didn't offer the required Ford spec either. So they did get it right.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO it doesn't have the API approval. Oh yea they do claim to meet or exceed it though, they just didn't want to pay.
So? No vehicle manufacturer requires API approved oils. Why pay if it is not required by anyone? RL isn't API approved. And why didn't RL want to pay? And AMSOIL offers 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40 and 15w40 that are API approved, if that is important to anyone.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I'll take my chances with RL, on Dave's word alone.

AD
Good luck with that...Still waiting for a copy of the RL warranty, which you claim is the same as AMSOIL's.
Last edited by timvipond
Try re-reading my above thread which was in the process of an edit while you were replying. Read it closely.

I'll try and clear it up for you. If Ford is calling only for a 20 grade oil in certain apps, then they want a 20 grade oil. If they call for a 30 grade oil they only want a 30 grade oil unless otherwise stated. Amsoil took the liberty of saying 0W30 was OK in applications Ford wanted only 20 grade oil for. If they call for 5W50, then use 5W50. Simple.

Another example my GF has an 08 Jeep it calls for 5W20, we know we can use 0W20, Amsoil says it is OK to use 0W30 as well as the other two. Jeep people say don't use it. Go to Mobil, they say 5W20 and 0W20, spot on.

You run your oil for 35K in that new Mustang? Or do you do what most smart oil companies suggest when under a warranty. You know, follow the OLM or the OM recommendations.

Again, I don't need to produce a warranty, I'm not shilling RL. I think its a better oil, and so do a lot of other people.

Also remember the topic here is "I'm sticking with RL"..

AD
Tim, you said above "No vehicle manufacturer requires API approved oils", but that post of mine you mentioned..."Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API)."

There is even a drawing in the manual of what to look for.

So yes, a car mfg is telling you to use API certed oil.

The manual is very specific, at least for the Stang. For the V6, 5w30 only. Use API certed oil. For the 8, it's 5w20 only.

For my car, it's different. A specific weight isn't listed as it's a non ///M. But it has to be A3/B3 LL-01 under warranty. It can be 0w30, 5w30, 0w40. BMWNA has a very short list of oils for USA driven bimmers.

So it's either Castrol, BMW label, Valvoline MST, or Mobil 1 while under warranty. Nothing else.

Drat, we were typing at the same time. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

You run your oil for 35K in that new Mustang? Or do you do what most smart oil companies suggest when under a warranty. You know, follow the OLM or the OM recommendations.
The OLM and OM "recommendations" was designed for the lowest quality oil that barely meets the Ford specs. It doesn't apply to AMSOIL. Yes, if I had a new Mustang, used SSO and drove it 35,000 normal miles in a year or less and it would still keep the factory warranty intact. The 3500 Texas State Police drive much harder than that on a lesser oil for 20,000 severe miles. I go 5 times longer than Ford recommends on my 2008 Ford motorhome. 38 years, millions of oil changes, and no failures is good enough for me. And then it is warranted if it does fail. Would you do that with Red Line?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Again, I don't need to produce a warranty, I'm not shilling RL. I think its a better oil, and so do a lot of other people.
You don't need to produce a warranty, or can't? Why do you "think" it is a better oil? Longer warranty? API certified? Published name brand comparison tests? More than 38 years without failure? The curious want to know.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Also remember the topic here is "I'm sticking with RL"..

AD
Then why did others bring up false information about AMSOIL?
Thanks Trajan, seems he is selective in his reading. My point all along was a new car mfg will look for a waay out of a warranty claim if you don't follow their recommendations. The word their is important, their meaning the mfg, not their meaning Amsoil.

They want an API certified oil for a reason. If I were to use an non API certified oil I would use RL.

If Tim cares to search the WWW for UOA reports he'll find plenty of them where SSO and ASM fell short of their life expectancy.

Oh yes, Amsoil's warranty is different from RL. RL claims are more realistic. And again I'll make mention of those Amsoil filters that didn't live up to their expectations. The company is far from perfect.

AD
Lets see Tim you said this:

The OLM and OM "recommendations" was designed for the lowest quality oil that barely meets the Ford specs. It doesn't apply to AMSOIL. Yes, if I had a new Mustang, used SSO and drove it 35,000 normal miles in a year or less and it would still keep the factory warranty intact.

----------------------------------------

So Ford would cover engine an problem (2010) if they spec'd a 20 grade oil, 6 month or 7500 mile OCI, under these conditions. You ran SSO 0W30 for 35,000 "normal" miles, or 1 year w/o a change? Lets say you developed a nice bearing knock. Ford will eat it? Dream on............ I hope you don't tell your customers that Tim. No no.

Wait make sure you tell the service writer they were "normal" miles, when you tell him about the knock. Oh wait Amsoil will eat it.

AD
I'm not taking sides, just showing what I've found.

To quote a man who has been closely involved with car makers and oil for decades.."use a lubricant of the correct viscosity that is specified by the Manufacturer and Listed by them as Approved – especially when under any form of Warranty"

Of course, out of warranty, use what you will and be happy. But you won't go wrong doing the above.

ps, better RL or Amsoil than swill...synlube any day.

BTW, Exceeding the OLM is a warranty violation regardless of what oil you use.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Tim, you said above "No vehicle manufacturer requires API approved oils", but that post of mine you mentioned..."Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API)."
My statement is true. The manufactures only mention using certified oils to help the consumer pick an oil, but it is not required as long as they meet API specs. You can read more at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf . Ask any vehicle manufacture if API certification is a requirement, and they will tell you it is not. Just that it has to meet the specs.

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan: There is even a drawing in the manual of what to look for.

So yes, a car mfg is telling you to use API certed oil.
. Yes, they can tell you that, and they can even tell you brands to use, but it is not a warranty requirement. Here is another good read: https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/fearfactor/API.pdf .

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan: The manual is very specific, at least for the Stang. For the V6, 5w30 only. Use API certed oil. For the 8, it's 5w20 only.
You really have to look up each car for it's specific oil requirement on the AMSOIL website for the manufacturer's and AMSOIL's recommendations. They change from time to time. Ford used to recommend 5w30 for my old Fords, and then switched to recommending 5w20 for them. And AMSOIL has never had a warranty repair declined do to the recommended AMSOIL in the engine.


quote:
Originally posted by Trajan: For my car, it's different. A specific weight isn't listed as it's a non ///M. But it has to be A3/B3 LL-01 under warranty. It can be 0w30, 5w30, 0w40. BMWNA has a very short list of oils for USA driven bimmers. So it's either Castrol, BMW label, Valvoline MST, or Mobil 1 while under warranty. Nothing else.

In the US and Canada, the consumer laws say that if a manufacture says only certain brands can be used, they have to provide them free of charge. The list is only a recommendation. Any oil that meets the manufacturers specs can be used. AMSOIL makes a European oil for many of those cars. You just look your car up on the website and see which oils AMSOIL recommends. AMSOIL has never voided any warranty in 38 years and the oil has never failed when used as recommended. And if it does, AMSOIL pays.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see Tim you said this:

The OLM and OM "recommendations" was designed for the lowest quality oil that barely meets the Ford specs. It doesn't apply to AMSOIL. Yes, if I had a new Mustang, used SSO and drove it 35,000 normal miles in a year or less and it would still keep the factory warranty intact.

----------------------------------------

So Ford would cover engine an problem (2010) if they spec'd a 20 grade oil, 6 month or 7500 mile OCI, under these conditions. You ran SSO 0W30 for 35,000 "normal" miles, or 1 year w/o a change? Lets say you developed a nice bearing knock. Ford will eat it? Dream on............ I hope you don't tell your customers that Tim. No no.
If the bearing knock was the result of a failed part caused by a manufacturing defect, then Ford would eat it. If it was due to the oil failing, then AMSOIL would eat it if AMSOIL recommended SSO for 35,000 miles/1 year for that particular engine. How about Red Line?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Wait make sure you tell the service writer they were "normal" miles, when you tell him about the knock. Oh wait Amsoil will eat it.
It doesn't matter how many or what type of miles you have if the oil did not fail and the failure was a manufacturing defect.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I'm not taking sides, just showing what I've found.

To quote a man who has been closely involved with car makers and oil for decades.."use a lubricant of the correct viscosity that is specified by the Manufacturer and Listed by them as Approved – especially when under any form of Warranty"

Of course, out of warranty, use what you will and be happy. But you won't go wrong doing the above.

ps, better RL or Amsoil than swill...synlube any day.

BTW, Exceeding the OLM is a warranty violation regardless of what oil you use.
Exceeding the OLM is not a warranty violation. Warranties only cover manufacturing defects, regardless of mileage. The oil would have to be proven to fail. Here is what GM has to say:
“If engine damage otherwise covered by warranty
was found to be unrelated to the engine lubricant,
then the consumer’s practice with regard to oil
change intervals would not be a relevant considera-
tion, and the warranty claim would be honored.”
Fuels and Lubricants Division,
General Motors Research Laboratories

And:
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void
simply because an owner failed to use proper
engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the
prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is
contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
BMW oil changes under warranty are free. You get one per year or every 15,000 miles.

Violating the OLM would violate the warranty. Not the whole warranty of course. While your engine mounts would be replaced regardless, if your engine decided to sludge up because you didn't bother to follow said OLM, or any other oil related problem, you're screwed.

That link brought up by one in an attempt to blame oil for owner stupidity. Way over the OLM in his turbo diesel. And used the wrong oil to boot.

Guess who didn't cover it under warranty.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Tim,

So is their any documentation you can post here from Amsoil, that shows how many engines Amsoil covers, repairs/replaces under their warranty every year?

I have already stated my preferance for Redline, though I do not doubt the quality of Amsoil's product line.

AMSOIL stated in a Lubes 'n Greases article http://www.performanceoiltechn...allarticle_aug05.pdf Measuring up
“We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle
warranty claims per year,” reported Albert’s
son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice presi-
dent and chief operating officer. “We inves-
tigate each one comprehensively, examine
maintenance records, mileage, type of ser-
vice and repair invoices. We conduct
phone interviews and hire independent
expert investigators and engineers to
review failed parts and write an
Investigative Findings Report documenting
our results and send it to the claimant.
“Only in rare instances when we cannot
find an explanation for the problem, even
though the lubricant is not to blame, do
we accept a claim. Paid claims have
amounted to exactly two in the last two
years, which speaks volumes given the
quantity of oil we sell. It was later deter-
mined that both paid claims were ulti-
mately the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

A good article. Well worth reading if you would like to know more about the AMSOIL company.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
BMW oil changes under warranty are free. You get one per year or every 15,000 miles.
Nice! I wish BMW Motorcycles was as generous! I hate changing oil on my K1200LTs.


For what they charge for one, ya think they would!!!

I extended my warranty from 50 to 100,000 miles.
A few weeks later, all the brakes were replaced.
Dodged a big bullet there.
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Trajan,

So BMW gives you a free oil change every year/15,000 miles...with a car as nice as you drive, I would be changing it at half that mileage...

Was it MB or BMW that faced some lawsuit over their oil change recommendations, after some of their engines sludged up?


I did change it every 7500-8K. The thing is, while under warranty, if you want them to do it before the OLM says to, you pay for it. And we all know what a dealer charges.....

It was MB who got that one. http://www.oil-tech.com/32million.htm

It wasn't the oil's fault. It was MB that advised using dino oil and paired it with a FFS that would let you go up to 20K miles before it says "Hey Dummy!!! Change your oil!!!"

My OLM usually shows around 14.7K, though once it did show 15.2K
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Can you reset the OLM in that car, or is their some proprietary progam that the dealer uses?


I can reset it, but it has to be fairly close to the end for me to do it. Just a button press or two.

FWIW, this is what my manual says about oil:

BMW has approved certain grades of engine oil.
Use approved High Performance Synthetic Oil.

I listed the approve oil/weights earlier.

Now if you have a Z4M, or say an M6, it's even easier. Castrol TWS 10w60. Not something on the shelf at Auto Zone.
Reading through everything, I see we agree to disagree, but without the trolls everything seems to be civil.

Hey mods if your reading this, I think this says loads about the resident trolls...

I will say Amsoil obviously sells a quality product. It's the way they market it that leaves me a bit sour...Though without a doubt it has been succesful for them.

I have a 01 Honda Shadow Sabre 1100. It is due for an oil change, the Amsoil product is available locally at a few dealerships...I will also look into the Redline offering as well. May have to see if any data is available, to compare the two...Will look for any VOA/UOA's to compare as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Tim,

So is their any documentation you can post here from Amsoil, that shows how many engines Amsoil covers, repairs/replaces under their warranty every year?

I have already stated my preferance for Redline, though I do not doubt the quality of Amsoil's product line.

AMSOIL stated in a Lubes 'n Greases article http://www.performanceoiltechn...allarticle_aug05.pdf Measuring up
“We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle
warranty claims per year,” reported Albert’s
son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice presi-
dent and chief operating officer. “We inves-
tigate each one comprehensively, examine
maintenance records, mileage, type of ser-
vice and repair invoices. We conduct
phone interviews and hire independent
expert investigators and engineers to
review failed parts and write an
Investigative Findings Report documenting
our results and send it to the claimant.
“Only in rare instances when we cannot
find an explanation for the problem, even
though the lubricant is not to blame, do
we accept a claim. Paid claims have
amounted to exactly two in the last two
years, which speaks volumes given the
quantity of oil we sell. It was later deter-
mined that both paid claims were ulti-
mately the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

A good article. Well worth reading if you would like to know more about the AMSOIL company.


I thought Amsoil had no claims in 38 years? Seems they paid for two in two years?

Back to Ford, or any car maker. You could run Synlube for 100,000 miles w/o a change and if you never develop a problem the warranty would remain intact. The only time the warranty would be void is IF there is an engine problem related to oil and the OM recommended intervals and required grade and rated oil was not used. So again follow the recommendations.

Out of warranty do what ever you like. I think we agree on that too.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Reading through everything, I see we agree to disagree, but without the trolls everything seems to be civil.

Hey mods if your reading this, I think this says loads about the resident trolls...

I will say Amsoil obviously sells a quality product. It's the way they market it that leaves me a bit sour...Though without a doubt it has been succesful for them.

I have a 01 Honda Shadow Sabre 1100. It is due for an oil change, the Amsoil product is available locally at a few dealerships...I will also look into the Redline offering as well. May have to see if any data is available, to compare the two...Will look for any VOA/UOA's to compare as well.


Dawg. I hope you don't consider me a resident troll after this, I was trying to keep a semi heated debate civil. And get a point across. I think we all pretty much understand each other now. Land ho!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:

I have a 01 Honda Shadow Sabre 1100. It is due for an oil change, the Amsoil product is available locally at a few dealerships...I will also look into the Redline offering as well. May have to see if any data is available, to compare the two...Will look for any VOA/UOA's to compare as well.
Here is a comparison of AMSOIL 10w30 motorcycle oil and Redline 10w30 motorcycle oil: https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mct.aspx?zo=1181889 . I believe your bike specs a 10W40 JASO MA oil. My main concern with the Red Line motorcycle oils is that it only lists JASO MB, which is a lower wet clutch friction standard than the JASO MA you manual likely lists. This could cause clutch slippage. To learn more about JASO and other motorcycle oil testing: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf .
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

I thought Amsoil had no claims in 38 years? AD
Where did you get that idea? I said the oil never failed in 38 years.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Back to Ford, or any car maker. You could run Synlube for 100,000 miles w/o a change and if you never develop a problem the warranty would remain intact. The only time the warranty would be void is IF there is an engine problem related to oil and the OM recommended intervals and required grade and rated oil was not used. So again follow the recommendations.

Out of warranty do what ever you like. I think we agree on that too.

AD
You are getting closer. The vehicle manufacturer is not responsible for any oil failures, only part defects. If the oil failed, it doesn't matter what specs it met or didn't, or the oil change interval. The ball would go back into the oil company's court. That is why I think it is important to use an oil that has never failed in 38 years with a good warranty, whether you are in or out of the vehicle manufacturer's warranty.
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