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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Amsoil hasn't been proven to be a better oil over PP or PU or GC or M1..
I disagree. AMSOIL recommends extended oil change intervals, has a longer warranty, and outperforms the others in undisputed, independent ASTM testing.


Nobody here is buying this bogus SALES PITCH of independent ASTM testing, there WARRANTY is a joke, I have read it, and all it does is protect Amsoil.

I could have an Oil Company and pay for this ASTM Test and have it that my oil looks better than the competition, you think Amsoil is going to pay for a test that makes there competitions oil look better, give me a break.
The warranty provides parts and labor coverage for extended oil change intervals should the oil fail when used as directed. How does that protect AMSOIL? Looks like it protects the consumer. Compare that warranty to a 4,000 mile/4 month warranty that pays for 15 parts if the oil fails.

OK, pay SouthWest Research Institute to run an ASTM test and have it prove that your oil looks better than the competition. Let's see what happens. AMSOIL's competitors have not disputed the test results. They would if they could, but they can't.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


Reading that GM OM tells the story, and yet Tim keeps quoting Amsoil, and some law, seems GM found a way around that law in their wording.

AD


The law says what it says. Can't dictate what brand to buy. Can dictate what you have to do to have the protection.

What Tim and Kirk forget is that the car makers have law firms on retainer too. And their own legal departments.

That's why you have labels on your visors, or on the gas filler door. Or why things are written the way they are in the manual.

But that doesn't occur to those two. I guess they just think that the auto makers put all that stuff there just for kicks.


But none of the car makers have ever said that using AMSOIL will void your warranty. And none have ever voided a warranty with AMSOIL.


Using oil that does not meet the specs will if any oil related problem comes up.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

LOL Amsoil pays for the tests? Nuff said. I remember someone quoting somewhere about these independant tests you so highly regard. He said run a test enough times you;ll get the results you want to see. I think he might have been an Amsoil dealer on Bitog, and honest one at that. Pay for the testing and you'll get the results you want to see.
Try that with SouthWest Research Institute and see how far you get. Plus the competition does not dispute the test results. They would if they could, but they can't.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I'm still waiting for proof Amsoil is better, lets see it.
AMSOIL has proven it for 38 years with independent testing and the longest warranty in the business. AMSOIL was granted the Trademark "The First in Synthetics" when no other oil company could prove their oil was equal to or better than AMSOIL. Here is a brochure with undisputed, independent ASTM test results: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1971.pdf .
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Pennzoil clearly states if you follow the OM and use their oil they guarantee their product.
That is only for their top of the line Pennzoil Ultra. Do that with their other products and you will not be warranted by Pennzoil according to their website. AMSOIL does much better than that for all of their products.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Mobil runs some pretty impressive real testing, not rubbing 4 balls together, in a test experts call worthless for testing testing oil.
What experts call that worthless? All the oil companies use that testing for screening and gear oils as well as the military, universities and independent oil testing laboratories. And the 4 ball wear test is only 1 of dozens of tests that AMSOIL publishes.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Big bear quoted

quote:
the motor seemed to run better


Define what you mean by "seemed".......


Smoother, more responsive.

Kirk, I should not have used the word seemed, it was actually a fact that the engine was smoother and more responsive.

That's my observation and I am sticking with it.

I am sure if I was using Synlube and I said my motor seemed to run better that you would not be questioning me.



I would have questioned you.

Here is my take on what better oil does,especially in an older engine that has some issues.

My examples(actual) are as follows with specific details:

Older engines with higher miles bought used will sometimes have low end noise(worn shell bearings),that are a little sloppy and make slight kocking,clanking noises,etc.

Morning valve tap noises,especially miles on the oil. Piston slap,etc,etc.

So,various "engine metallic sounds" to sum it up.

However,in the past when I switched to amsoil,and synlube,noises were less,or non-existent. No minor Rod knocking,or morning valve tap noises even with 10,000 miles on oil(amsoil).



A Smoother and more responsive engine was never noted using a "butt dyno" with synthetic oil.

Only new plugs,wires,injectors,chemical cleaning,new cat,muffler,etc,did the "butt dyno" ever noticed a difference,better economy as well.

The only way I have seen a slightly smoother-idling engine was going from 20w-50 synthetic to 5w-30/50 synthetic oil in a six cylinder engine,because I have done that very thing. Only at idle could I feel less vibration through the steering wheel.

I have never seen any store bought oil,ever quiet down my previous high milage beater used cars that all had some excess engine metallic sounds that both Amsoil,and synlube were able to actually silence.

I used to use a product Called 'auto moly' to quiet down my engines years ago on store bought oil at a treatment rate of 5%.......that worked well. It did, however, wind up in the oil filter upon inspection. That is why the soluble moly is better. My filters at present are spotless.

I no longer need to use the moly treatment additive products. I still have one bottle left.

[B]In sum........far less engine noises,as in,a quieter engine acoustically speaking for all to hear,not just me,is what I speak of regarding Amsoil. That was my observation for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Using oil that does not meet the specs will if any oil related problem comes up.
What oil didn't meet the specs when an oil related problem came up? And if any oil fails, regardless of whether they say they meet the specs or not, will be responsible, not the car maker. Many oils that say they met the specs, did not, when API and others tested them off the shelf.

You have yet to show that AMSOIL has caused an oil related problem or voided any warranty. And if it ever does, AMSOIL pays.
quote:
Here is my take on what better oil does,especially in an older engine that has some issues.


Kirk, this is an engine that only has 43,000 miles on it.

I purchased the car with 10,000 miles on it, the original owner changed the oil at 3000 miles with Amsoil XL 5W-20, and he changed the oil again with Amsoil XL 5W-20 at 8000 miles, when I got the car with 10,000 miles I changed the oil again with Amsoil XL 5W-20 since he gave me 6 quarts of the stuff, I changed the oil becuase he told me the car had been sitting for a few months. I changed the oil again at 15,000 miles with Amsoil XL 5W-20, at 20,000 miles I put in Amsoil 0W-20 and ran it to 25,000 miles and then did another 5000 mile OCI with Amsoil 0W-20

At 30,000 miles I put in Motorcraft 5W-20 and ran it until 35,000 miles. I then went to Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 and changed it at 40,000 miles

I am currently running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20
quote:
You have yet to show that AMSOIL has caused an oil related problem or voided any warranty. And if it ever does, AMSOIL pays.


Amsoil will not pay anything, read there Warranty, there are too many loopholes for them to get out of paying.

Do you have Documentation showing how much Amsoil has paid out in 38 years, and do not tell me it is proprietary.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Here is my take on what better oil does,especially in an older engine that has some issues.


Kirk, this is an engine that only has 43,000 miles on it.

I purchased the car with 10,000 miles on it, the original owner changed the oil at 3000 miles with Amsoil XL 5W-20, and he changed the oil again with Amsoil XL 5W-20 at 8000 miles, when I got the car with 10,000 miles I changed the oil again with Amsoil XL 5W-20 since he gave me 6 quarts of the stuff, I changed the oil becuase he told me the car had been sitting for a few months. I changed the oil again at 15,000 miles with Amsoil XL 5W-20, at 20,000 miles I put in Amsoil 0W-20 and ran it to 25,000 miles and then did another 5000 mile OCI with Amsoil 0W-20

At 30,000 miles I put in Motorcraft 5W-20 and ran it until 35,000 miles. I then went to Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 and changed it at 40,000 miles

I am currently running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20


Great,however,I never have used the XL Amsoil line. That is their entry level oil on par with other group III products. I always used the top products,like series 2000 etc. That is what I think really defines Amsoil.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
You have yet to show that AMSOIL has caused an oil related problem or voided any warranty. And if it ever does, AMSOIL pays.


Amsoil will not pay anything, read there Warranty, there are too many loopholes for them to get out of paying.
AMSOIL has paid 2 warranty claims that I am aware of and was discussed in Lubes 'n Greases article. And in both cases, AMSOIL proved it was not the oils fault and was reimbursed by the manufacturer. I have never seen any complaint by any consumer or government agency that AMSOIL has not honored their warranty. Please post if you can find any to support your claim.

quote:
Originally posted by Big BearBig Grino you have Documentation showing how much Amsoil has paid out in 38 years, and do not tell me it is proprietary.
No I don't. Feel free to contact AMSOIL technical and ask them.
LOL...

A FYI I borrowed from Bitog. Seems someone had a comment about Pennzoil Ultra being recalled, not sure who it was, I don't have the energy to read thru all these posts again. Recall, not so.

Ultra being recalled?? - Reply‏
From: pqsandcarcaretechnical-us@shell.com
Sent: Wed 6/02/10 10:39 AM
To: tarrat@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Todd Roberts; Thank you for your interest in our product.There has been no recall on the any of the Pennzoil Ultra Motor Oils.WalMart has requirements on volumes of our products that need be soldfor them to maintain an inventory. It is possible that these volumesare not being met in your area.SincerelyProduct Technical Service, ah
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
LOL...

A FYI I borrowed from Bitog. Seems someone had a comment about Pennzoil Ultra being recalled, not sure who it was, I don't have the energy to read thru all these posts again. Recall, not so.

Ultra being recalled?? - Reply‏
From: pqsandcarcaretechnical-us@shell.com
Sent: Wed 6/02/10 10:39 AM
To: tarrat@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Todd Roberts; Thank you for your interest in our product.There has been no recall on the any of the Pennzoil Ultra Motor Oils.WalMart has requirements on volumes of our products that need be soldfor them to maintain an inventory. It is possible that these volumesare not being met in your area.SincerelyProduct Technical Service, ah


Must meet them in my area, as they have it. Tim has the kirk thread reading problem. doesn't go much past the first post or two.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
LOL...

A FYI I borrowed from Bitog. Seems someone had a comment about Pennzoil Ultra being recalled, not sure who it was, I don't have the energy to read thru all these posts again. Recall, not so.

Ultra being recalled?? - Reply‏
From: pqsandcarcaretechnical-us@shell.com
Sent: Wed 6/02/10 10:39 AM
To: tarrat@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Todd Roberts; Thank you for your interest in our product.There has been no recall on the any of the Pennzoil Ultra Motor Oils.WalMart has requirements on volumes of our products that need be soldfor them to maintain an inventory. It is possible that these volumesare not being met in your area.SincerelyProduct Technical Service, ah


Must meet them in my area, as they have it. Tim has the kirk thread reading problem. doesn't go much past the first post or two.


Trajan,
Any suggestions for an 06 BMW 330Ci? I just bought one for my wife. My Sister owned it since new, 60K, Convertible. She sold it to me, as she just received a company car (2010 G37) so she does not need the beemer anymore. I was thinking GC 0w-30. It has been serviced at the recommended intervals.

Thanks,
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Series 2000 is a grease, you add that to your engine?

AD


That remark about grease is all the proof I need you have no Idea what you are talking about,and know ZIP about amsoil. My advice to you is stop posting your opinions over amsoil and first research the product,then voice your opinion on this thread when you actually know what you are talking about.....Put up or shut up!

How can you bash any product you have no knowledge of?

The series 2000 was the top of the line motor oil product years ago when I was using their motor oil products...obviously you didn't know that based on your foolish remark. They still have a series 3000 diesel oil product.

Here is what I used to use........

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil...product-code-tro.php
Series 2000 Synthetic Racing Grease Product Code: GRGCR-EA


Ultimate protection for hard-driven, high-performance vehicles. Dramatically reduces friction and wear for improved performance. Excels at both high- and low-temperature performance. Outperforms other conventional and synthetic greases.



You said Series 2000, I didn't. Try changing your tone OK. Your hostile approach won't win you any points. Foolish remark? I've used it to pack wheel bearings too. Smile

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
LOL...

A FYI I borrowed from Bitog. Seems someone had a comment about Pennzoil Ultra being recalled, not sure who it was, I don't have the energy to read thru all these posts again. Recall, not so.

Ultra being recalled?? - Reply‏
From: pqsandcarcaretechnical-us@shell.com
Sent: Wed 6/02/10 10:39 AM
To: tarrat@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Todd Roberts; Thank you for your interest in our product.There has been no recall on the any of the Pennzoil Ultra Motor Oils.WalMart has requirements on volumes of our products that need be soldfor them to maintain an inventory. It is possible that these volumesare not being met in your area.SincerelyProduct Technical Service, ah


Must meet them in my area, as they have it. Tim has the kirk thread reading problem. doesn't go much past the first post or two.


Trajan,
Any suggestions for an 06 BMW 330Ci? I just bought one for my wife. My Sister owned it since new, 60K, Convertible. She sold it to me, as she just received a company car (2010 G37) so she does not need the beemer anymore. I was thinking GC 0w-30. It has been serviced at the recommended intervals.

Thanks,
Dave


Dave,

GC is BMW approved. Your manual, unlike mine, states that approved oils are in the 5w-30/40 range. But as long as it says ACEA A3/B3 LL-01 you're golden.

BMWNA's approval list needs updating. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 I've been told is also approved. It lists these four:

•Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30 (AKA GC)

•Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40

•Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30

•Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30 (Should be the MST one.)

I use the first two.

Hope this helps. (You have a nice BMW.)

In short. You can use the GC. (The BMW 5w30 oil is rebadged Castrol TXT.)
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Series 2000 Synthetic Racing Grease Product Code: GRGCR-EA


Ultimate protection for hard-driven, high-performance vehicles. Dramatically reduces friction and wear for improved performance. Excels at both high- and low-temperature performance. Outperforms other conventional and synthetic greases.



You said Series 2000, I didn't. Try changing your tone OK. Your hostile approach won't win you any points. Foolish remark? I've used it to pack wheel bearings too. Smile

AD



You accused me of putting grease in my engine AD. I never said grease,I said series 2000 while discussing motor oil,which is/was a 'title' on various products,not just grease,indicating it is the best product,or top of the line. You exemplified you know very little about Amsoil with that foolish remark,yet you continue to bash it. You not only have never used it,but also don't know anything about their history or product line up.

How can you give an opinion on a product/company without first knowing at least some of the facts?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Series 2000 Synthetic Racing Grease Product Code: GRGCR-EA


Ultimate protection for hard-driven, high-performance vehicles. Dramatically reduces friction and wear for improved performance. Excels at both high- and low-temperature performance. Outperforms other conventional and synthetic greases.



You said Series 2000, I didn't. Try changing your tone OK. Your hostile approach won't win you any points. Foolish remark? I've used it to pack wheel bearings too. Smile

AD


You know what? I have to supress a mouth full of bile for actually finding this: http://www.synthetic-motor-oil...product-code-tro.php

I'll give him half a point as he wasn't very clear.
quote:
You know what? I have to supress a mouth full of bile for actually finding this: http://www.synthetic-motor-oil...product-code-tro.php

He actually got one right. Would be nice if he put in more than series 2000 though....


When Kirk said the Series 2000 I did not think he was talking about the grease, I remember the Series 2000 oil.

So Kirk, why did you stop using the oil, and what are you using now, I am guessing Synlube.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Series 2000 Synthetic Racing Grease Product Code: GRGCR-EA


Ultimate protection for hard-driven, high-performance vehicles. Dramatically reduces friction and wear for improved performance. Excels at both high- and low-temperature performance. Outperforms other conventional and synthetic greases.



You said Series 2000, I didn't. Try changing your tone OK. Your hostile approach won't win you any points. Foolish remark? I've used it to pack wheel bearings too. Smile

AD



You accused me of putting grease in my engine AD. I never said grease,I said series 2000 while discussing motor oil,which is/was a 'title' on various products,not just grease,indicating it is the best product,or top of the line. You exemplified you know very little about Amsoil with that foolish remark,yet you continue to bash it. You not only have never used it,but also don't know anything about their history or product line up.

How can you give an opinion on a product/company without first knowing at least some of the facts?


Got facts about what I've used Kirk? A hint Amsoil sells it, its a grease and has 2000 in its name. Here's another ASM 0W20.

You still can't find facts that Amsoil is actually better than M1 PU or Edge. You have no clue who I am, let alone know what I use. So tone it down dude!

BTW that was a joke, I give you some credit for smarts. Although adding Synlube to an engine would be about as good as adding grease to it.

AD
quote:
. Although adding Synlube to an engine would be about as good as adding grease to it.

quote:
. You have no clue who I am, let alone know what I use. So tone it down dude!


My engines are all running fine. Use ZERO OIL,no emission issues,no fuel economy issues,no sludge,no varnish,super clean inside oil fill cap,etc,etc. What else could I ask for......

OH,free oil.....which I now get as well,minus the 14 bucks to ship back the used oil. The new oil is shipped totally free. LIFE IS GOOD!!!

AD quoted:

"You still can't find facts that Amsoil is actually better than M1 PU or Edge"


AD....kindly show us......

........ where Amsoil is not better than those products you stated. All the facts show it is........you are simply dismissing the facts to suit your argument.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


........ where Amsoil is not better than those products you stated. All the facts show it is........you are simply dismissing the facts to suit your argument.


Facts, what facts, I haven't seen anything other than a salesman's pitch, Amsoil's literature, and a 4 ball test proving nothing. You seem to be dismissing facts to suit your arguement.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


........ where Amsoil is not better than those products you stated. All the facts show it is........you are simply dismissing the facts to suit your argument.


Facts, what facts, I haven't seen anything other than a salesman's pitch, Amsoil's literature, and a 4 ball test proving nothing. You seem to be dismissing facts to suit your arguement.

AD


Define salesman's pitch.....Be careful........everyone company has,as you state...........A SALES PITCH!! Does that mean every product is a scam now.

What kind of information would you like to see that would satisfy your curiosity/skepticism you have not seen already?

How much more proof do you need,how many more tests,how much more data,etc,etc.???

What product/company actually gives more independent,and unbiased data than Amsoil to date.

Most important.........how would this 'other' information now be disseminated and not be called a sales pitch by...YOU...and others who can't seem to handle any facts,or data.

I suspect if wally world had their shelves stocked full of Amsoil........that would be what it would take to sell you???? I guess you won't buy AMWAY products for the same reason. They do however both start with the letters....AM........

However,If you really like Moly,and graphite as a bonus................You know what I use...... it's practically free at this point for me. Drives you guys nuts too!! But, For me.........LIFE IS GOOD.....IT WORKS WELL.....THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME! FIND SOMETHING GOOD,AND BE DONE WITH IT!



API CERTIFIED..................ONLY IF YOU LIKE POLITICS.......AND KOOL-AID!!!!!! Myself.........I go for performance only, and what I know actually works. WHO NEEDS API/CERTS.. POLITICS/MONEY GAMES.

Keep drinking the API CERTIFIED.............KOOL-AID. WHAT'S TODAY'S FLAVOR????


TRAJAN QUOTED
Yeah, just like simlube "facts". Lots of cheerleading. Little substance.

The substance,as you call it........is in all my engines........not a lick of any issues. No cheer-leading needed. Just the facts!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


........ where Amsoil is not better than those products you stated. All the facts show it is........you are simply dismissing the facts to suit your argument.


Facts, what facts, I haven't seen anything other than a salesman's pitch, Amsoil's literature, and a 4 ball test proving nothing. You seem to be dismissing facts to suit your arguement.

AD
Yeah, just like simlube "facts". Lots of cheerleading. Little substance.

Well, at least, some of the oils are API certed.
But not MFG certed.

But, in their favor, they do have a much better reputation than simlube. Actual UOAs that don't look too bad with a reasonable oci.

Plus a HQ, distributers, dealers, and such that are on a map.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


........ where Amsoil is not better than those products you stated. All the facts show it is........you are simply dismissing the facts to suit your argument.


Facts, what facts, I haven't seen anything other than a salesman's pitch, Amsoil's literature, and a 4 ball test proving nothing. You seem to be dismissing facts to suit your arguement.

AD


Define salesman's pitch.....Be careful........everyone company has,as you state...........A SALES PITCH!! Does that mean every product is a scam now.

What kind of information would you like to see that would satisfy your curiosity/skepticism you have not seen already?

How much more proof do you need,how many more tests,how much more data,etc,etc.???

What product/company actually gives more independent,and unbiased data than Amsoil to date.

Most important.........how would this 'other' information now be disseminated and not be called a sales pitch by...YOU...and others who can't seem to handle any facts,or data.

I suspect if wally world had their shelves stocked full of Amsoil........that would be what it would take to sell you???? I guess you won't buy AMWAY products for the same reason. They do however both start with the letters....AM........

However,If you really like Moly,and graphite as a bonus................You know what I use...... it's practically free at this point for me. Drives you guys nuts too!! But, For me.........LIFE IS GOOD.....IT WORKS WELL.....THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME! FIND SOMETHING GOOD,AND BE DONE WITH IT!



API CERTIFIED..................ONLY IF YOU LIKE POLITICS.......AND KOOL-AID!!!!!! Myself.........I go for performance only, and what I know actually works. WHO NEEDS API/CERTS.. POLITICS/MONEY GAMES.

Keep drinking the API CERTIFIED.............KOOL-AID. WHAT'S TODAY'S FLAVOR????


TRAJAN QUOTED
Yeah, just like simlube "facts". Lots of cheerleading. Little substance.

The substance,as you call it........is in all my engines........not a lick of any issues. No cheer-leading needed. Just the facts!!!
The Salesman's pitch is from our resident Amsoil dealer, and now you again. A most annoying pitch, in fact hurting sales for Amsoil IMO, and the opinion of others too. The pitch is constant and in every thread mentioning oil, what oil should I use, or an Amsoil question (which BTW is OK). Note the title of this thread. {I'm sticking with RL}, sort of funny?

All salesmen sell, most know when to kick it back, or stand down. The best products sell themselves, with very little hard sell tactics, and constant interference. Notice no one from Mobil, Shell, RL or any other oil company chimed in, except for you, and Tim.

As I see it you're back to pitching your lube again. So far all I've read here is lots of opinions.

My dad had more Ford products cross 250,000 miles than I can shake a stick at, many running PYB for 5000 miles, sometimes more. No oil burners, no tickers, no knockers, and clean under the VC. All ran well and passed the NYS sniffer test. Many sold and used years after.
Typically the NY road salt got the best of them.

Based on that if we use your sales pitch PYB is the bestest, very bestest oil in the world. Same facts you are using.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
The pitch is constant and in every thread mentioning oil, what oil should I use, or an Amsoil question (which BTW is OK). Note the title of this thread. {I'm sticking with RL}, sort of funny?


AD


Let's check the facts. Who was the first person to bring up AMSOIL in this thread? You did. You had two posts on AMSOIL and Big Bear had 2 posts on AMSOIL before I even posted!

ADFD1
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Tue May 18 2010 10:59 AM Hide Post
"Having now tried both RL and Amsoil I would use RL. IMO the engine sounded better with the RL. I think they use better additives, and lots of moly. Hope I don't get flamed, I call it like I see it."

AD



ADFD1
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Tue May 18 2010 11:35 AM Hide Post
"Yea I might give their gear oil a shot too. My father was getting me the Amsoil, but the PC fee is a turn off, he used it for a year and decided not to pay for the PC fee anymore."

"From all I've been reading I think RL is a better product for the money. But then again that is my opinion, and what is one mans opinion worth? Well my father and uncle feel the same way too, so there's 3 opinions."

So, since you repeatedly were giving your opinions on AMSOIL, I later provided facts to counter your opinions. So you seem to be the one who initially turned this into an AMSOIL thread.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Redline Gear Oil failed 2 basic gear oil tests, foaming and viscosity, according to this white paper http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf .

Does Red Line offer a warranty? I searched "warranty" on their website and found nothing.

This is also not confidence inspiring.
"Q: Will using Red Line products void my vehicle's factory warranty?
Using the appropriate Red Line product shouldn't invalidate your vehicle's warranty and question the mechanic or service manager that says so."


Superior is a city in and the county seat of Douglas County, Wisconsin, United States.[

http://www.machinerylubricatio...ad/163/oil-analyzers


Tim, I am having a problem with the LINK you sent me on the Gear Oil Test, I noticed the Notary Public that verifies the finding was in Douglas, County Wisconsin. Amsoil is headquartered in Superior, Wisconsin. That's in Douglas County.

So, I looked up any places in Douglas County that do UOA work, and I came up with Oil Analyzer's and I found out that it is owned by Amsoil. I decided to mapquest Oil Analyzers Inc. on 2206 Winter Street in Superior Wisconsin 54880 and then get directions to Amsoil Corporate Headquarters, 925 Tower Avenue, Superior, Wisconsin 54880.

It's only 0.3 miles away, Tim, that Gear Oil test was done by Oil Analyzers Inc. which Amsoil owns, and since that is the case then I have a problem with the findings, I see a conflict of interest here and I cannot believe any of Amsoil's tests.
I knew there was something wrong when there was no address for the Lab that did the work, and anytime you see Amsoil print up some findings on any tests and on the bottom it says its an independent lab then you know this is wrong.

No wonder Amsoil Products look so good on there website and they show us tests, they own Oil Analyzers that does the tests and they can play with the numbers all day long and print anything up that they want to.

I think AD and myself will stick with our observations based on using both Redline and Amsoil since with what I have found there tests mean nothing.
In 1997, Oil Analyzers Inc. was founded to provide improved analysis services for the customers AMSOIL serves.


Oil Analyzers performs oil analysis on automotive, diesel and industrial equipment. The lab performs other analytical services beyond used oil analysis, including 4-ball Wear, NOACK Volatility, Falex Pin and Vee Block, IR Scan, Foam Testing, Demulsibility Testing, Cold Crank and others. The lab is expanding to provide Timken EP, High Temperature Shear, Rotating Pressure Vessel Oxidation Test (RPVOT) along with grease tests such as Roll Stability, Low Temp Torque, Water Washout, Wheel Bearing Leak, Penetration and Dropping Point.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
The pitch is constant and in every thread mentioning oil, what oil should I use, or an Amsoil question (which BTW is OK). Note the title of this thread. {I'm sticking with RL}, sort of funny?


AD


Let's check the facts. Who was the first person to bring up AMSOIL in this thread? You did. You had two posts on AMSOIL and Big Bear had 2 posts on AMSOIL before I even posted!

ADFD1
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Tue May 18 2010 10:59 AM Hide Post
"Having now tried both RL and Amsoil I would use RL. IMO the engine sounded better with the RL. I think they use better additives, and lots of moly. Hope I don't get flamed, I call it like I see it."

AD



ADFD1
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Tue May 18 2010 11:35 AM Hide Post
"Yea I might give their gear oil a shot too. My father was getting me the Amsoil, but the PC fee is a turn off, he used it for a year and decided not to pay for the PC fee anymore."

"From all I've been reading I think RL is a better product for the money. But then again that is my opinion, and what is one mans opinion worth? Well my father and uncle feel the same way too, so there's 3 opinions."

So, since you repeatedly were giving your opinions on AMSOIL, I later provided facts to counter your opinions. So you seem to be the one who initially turned this into an AMSOIL thread.


Yes Tim I did, I offered my opinion and the opinion of my father, and mechanics, and machinists we know, we tried both products. I also added I hoped I didn't get flamed. Shortly after the national guard, you jumped in, defending, pitching, selling, quoting, copying and pasting. Yes I started it, but wasn't singling you out, you decided to dive in. How about that compressor oil thread Tim?

Dawg- Don't be sorry you started the thread RL is a great oil, even after 22 pages of hype, pitches, etc, I'd still grab it over Amsoil! Your facts are nothing more than BS from Amsoils paid for testing, and from their own company none the less. Good one.

AD
From http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf

"Method
The testing by which the gear lubes were evaluated was done in accordance with American Society for Testing and
Materials (ASTM) procedures, Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J306 requirements and Federal Test Method
Standards.Other than the oxidation filter patch procedure, performance testing was conducted by an independent labora-
tory.Physical-property testing (viscosity, viscosity index, pour point and foaming after oxidation) was conducted in-house.
A notarized affidavit certifying that the results are accurately reported is included in Appendix 1. Gear lube pricing was
obtained from the manufacturers or distributors, and a notarized affidavit certifying that those prices are reported as
obtained is included in Appendix 2."

Polaris and Lubrizol labs did the gear oil performance tests according to Darrin at AMSOIL tech support.

The test results can (and likely were) be reproduced by the named competitors since batches were named and the standard tests were listed. None of the results have been proven incorrect by anyone even though the results have been published for 2 years. Until anyone can prove the results are not correct, then they stand. I'm sure the named competitors would have disputed the results if they were not correct, but they haven't.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1896784&page=1

This Thread has 241 replies and 7163 views.

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.

Since Amsoil owns Oil Analyzers I cannot see Oil Analyzers being unbiased, remember who signs there checks.

So the guy at Amsoil gets your oil sample, and drives 2 miles to Oil Analyzers, and says we have a Warranty Claim, and he tells him, you know what to do, which is make that Oil Analysis look good so we do not have to pay on the Warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Yes Tim I did, I offered my opinion and the opinion of my father, and mechanics, and machinists we know, we tried both products. I also added I hoped I didn't get flamed. Shortly after the national guard, you jumped in, defending, pitching, selling, quoting, copying and pasting. Yes I started it, but wasn't singling you out, you decided to dive in.
Again let's look at the facts. After your posts about AMSOIL, all I did was list a gear oil white paper without commentary, and asked if Red Line had a written warranty, which they don't post on their website. Then you began your diatribe about why you don't like AMSOIL. Plus your BS about how a dealer has a right to void the warranty (wrong, only the manufacturer can do that). And that the oil has to be API certified (it doesn't, certification is voluntary and optional). If you wouldn't be wrong all the time, I wouldn't have to correct you.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. For a few $$ anyone can sell it, and it gets old when the reps watch and monitor these threads looking to attack, defend, or sell. That and the $20 fee for the right to a better price, no thanks.

My dads dealer told him if the oil isn't API certified and the suggested grade and there is a problem they have the right to void the warranty. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that fire fight if my engine checked out because of an oil failure with a non approved oil. Yep this goes for using RL oil too, but I'd take RL over Amsoil for my ride.

Some of these reps will tell you exactly what you want to hear. No RL reps here attacking, defending, or pushing. Sorry guys, but that's how I see it in a lot of these threads, and it gets old man.

AD"



AD


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: How about that compressor oil thread Tim?


How about it? I answered his question in my second post.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Again let's look at the facts. After your posts about AMSOIL, all I did was list a gear oil white paper without commentary, and asked if Red Line had a warranty. Then you began your diatribe about why you don't like AMSOIL.


The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.
What on earth makes you think it was bogus? Brand names given, batch designations given, standard test protocols used than any lab can duplicate. Notarized affidavits given. Undisputed test results by the named competitors or anyone else in 2 years. No lawsuits for false claims or advertising. What else do you want? Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I can think of another reason not to use Amsoil.

Lets say you do an extended drain and have a problem and Amsoil wants you to mail them an oil sample.

Amsoil Center
1101 Susquehanna Avenue
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

The above address is where you mail in your oil sample which Amsoil's requires in the event something goes wrong with your car during the extended drain with there oil.

Oil Analyzers Inc.
2206 Winter Street
Superior, Wisconsin 54880

When I went and did a Mapquest, it seems you would only have to drive 0.84 miles, that's like a 2 minute drive.

So, you did an extended drain with Amsoil, Ford denies the warranty, you send an oil sample to Amsoil, there own lab does an oil analysis, you see where this is going. Sorry, our oil was fine, since Amsoil owns the lab and the lab answers to Amsoil they can do whatever they want and say anything so they do not have to pay out to the customer.
Ford also has to prove the AMSOIL oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.
quote:
Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?


Actually, I am happy that Amsoil did better than Redline Gear Oil, I use Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.

I am not happy to find out that Amsoil owns a lab that does all kinds of oil analysis work and now I cannot believe any of there numbers on any of there tests that are on the Amsoil Website.

I use Amsoil Gear Lube, and I use Amsoil ATF, and I also use there Powersteering Fluid and Greases, I know they are good products based on my observations, so I do not need any tests thrown in my face.

My trans shifts the smoothest with Amsoil ATF.
No problems with using Amsoil Gear Oil.
Amsoil Powersteering Fluid works better than Redline Powersteering Fluid, I have used both and the Amsoil fluid is better.

As far as motor oil, I just like Pennzoil Platinum better than Amsoil Motor Oil.

I do not need tests and sales pitchs shoved down my throat, how hard is it for you to let Amsoil Products sell themselves.

I did mention Amsoil and Redline gear Oil, but a respected guy who sells Amsoil said they were both good, pick one and be happy is what he told me.

Transmission = Amsoil
Powersteering = Amsoil
Differential = Amsoil
Engine = Pennzoil Platinum

I may even end up using Amsoil Brake Fluid, but I do not need a sales pitch or a Link.
Why not visit Bitog, a dealer service guy weighed in, seems to go along with what quite a few of us are saying here.

Remember something Tim, you are a salesman selling Amsoil, your job is to sell. A dealer can opt to deny a warranty claim if he feels there is something other than a defect to blame. He can and will call in a company rep to check and either allow the repair or deny it, all the while the car sits. If you think in the event of an engine failure Amsoil will pay and the car will be back on the road in no time flat you are dreaming. Amosil will want proof their product was to blame, and fight like hell to defend the product.

AD

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1896784&page=2


#1902298 - 05/25/10 02:07 PM Re: Reason NOT to use Amsoil [Re: SteveSRT8]
NHHEMI


Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 1931
Loc: NH Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.

I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.
quote:
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.


Not so simple, now I am going to pay another lab like Blackstone to run a test, read the Warranty, if you fail to follow anything that Amsoil requests, the Warranty is Voided by Amsoil.

I do not have the time or money to take Amsoil and Ford to court over a Warranty Claim that both will find a way out of, its just much easier to follow what the owner's manual says about OCI's.

I was not born yesterday, give me a break, and you think Ford is going to test the oil, can you provided any documentation proving that Ford would do this, or is this another one of your claims to get Amsoil off the hook.

Ford has there own lawyers, they are not going to lay down, they will fight tooth and nail.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Are you upset because AMSOIL clearly out performed the others and has a better warranty or that Red Line failed 2 standardized gear oil tests?


Actually, I am happy that Amsoil did better than Redline Gear Oil, I use Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.

I am not happy to find out that Amsoil owns a lab that does all kinds of oil analysis work and now I cannot believe any of there numbers on any of there tests that are on the Amsoil Website.
AMSOIL has their own in house lab for quality control, product testing and development. Oil Analyzers does their customers oil analysis. Because of this, AMSOIL has more used oil analyses at their disposal than any other oil company. I'm sure they use this data to uncover any weaknesses in their formulation and to make better products. Oil Analyzers, nor the AMSOIL lab do not do any of the performance tests in their comparisons with other products. SouthWest Research Institute and other independent labs do this and AMSOIL publishes the data. I wish the other oil companies would do this, but they do not seem to want to compare the quality of their products to that of others.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I use Amsoil Gear Lube, and I use Amsoil ATF, and I also use there Powersteering Fluid and Greases, I know they are good products based on my observations, so I do not need any tests thrown in my face.

My trans shifts the smoothest with Amsoil ATF.
No problems with using Amsoil Gear Oil.
Amsoil Powersteering Fluid works better than Redline Powersteering Fluid, I have used both and the Amsoil fluid is better.

As far as motor oil, I just like Pennzoil Platinum better than Amsoil Motor Oil.

I do not need tests and sales pitchs shoved down my throat, how hard is it for you to let Amsoil Products sell themselves.

I did mention Amsoil and Redline gear Oil, but a respected guy who sells Amsoil said they were both good, pick one and be happy is what he told me.

Transmission = Amsoil
Powersteering = Amsoil
Differential = Amsoil
Engine = Pennzoil Platinum

I may even end up using Amsoil Brake Fluid, but I do not need a sales pitch or a Link.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why not visit Bitog, a dealer service guy weighed in, seems to go along with what quite a few of us are saying here.
What did he say?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Remember something Tim, you are a salesman selling Amsoil, your job is to sell. A dealer can opt to deny a warranty claim if he feels there is something other than a defect to blame.
Please show where a dealer can deny a warranty claim. He can't. He didn't make the vehicle, or write the warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: He can and will call in a company rep to check and either allow the repair or deny it, all the while the car sits.
That is not AMSOIL's fault.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: If you think in the event of an engine failure Amsoil will pay and the car will be back on the road in no time flat you are dreaming. Amosil will want proof their product was to blame, and fight like hell to defend the product.
The bottom line is that no vehicle manufacture will say that using AMSOIL will void their warranty if AMSOIL has a product that meets their recommendations, and that AMSOIL has never voided a warranty, and that AMSOIL has never failed in 38 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Ford also has to prove the oil failed. Which they never have in 38 years. So Ford would also do their own oil test. If you distrust Ford and AMSOIL you can send an oil sample to any lab of your choice. Simple.


Not so simple, now I am going to pay another lab like Blackstone to run a test, read the Warranty, if you fail to follow anything that Amsoil requests, the Warranty is Voided by Amsoil.
Nothing wrong with that. I've never found any consumer or government complaints on the AMSOIL warranty process.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I do not have the time or money to take Amsoil and Ford to court over a Warranty Claim that both will find a way out of, its just much easier to follow what the owner's manual says about OCI's.
I've never heard of that happening with AMSOIL, have you? And what happens if the oil fails and you follow the OM OCI's? It is not the vehicle manufacturers fault, they proved the oil failed. It gets them off the hook.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: I was not born yesterday, give me a break, and you think Ford is going to test the oil, can you provided any documentation proving that Ford would do this, or is this another one of your claims to get Amsoil off the hook.
Just ask Ford. I've heard it is standard operating procedure for a vehicle or equipment manufacturer to test the oil if oil failure is likely. It gets them off the hook if the oil is to blame, since they only warranty for manufacturing defects, not oil related failures.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Ford has there own lawyers, they are not going to lay down, they will fight tooth and nail.
Exactly. That is why it pays to have a company like AMSOIL in your corner, that has never voided a warranty, the oil has never failed, and has paid a few claims for good will, PR and advertising, and then gone after the manufacturers for reimbursement. Some oil companies do not offer a written warranty, only warranty for up to 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts.
Tim, I am not buying anything you have said here, I am sure there has been Warranty Claims on Amsoil Motor Oil, but they have kept it quiet.

I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I am not buying anything you have said here, I am sure there has been Warranty Claims on Amsoil Motor Oil, but they have kept it quiet.
I guess you missed this on page 5:
AMSOIL stated in a Lubes 'n Greases article http://www.performanceoiltechn...allarticle_aug05.pdf Measuring up
“We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle
warranty claims per year,” reported Albert’s
son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice presi-
dent and chief operating officer. “We inves-
tigate each one comprehensively, examine
maintenance records, mileage, type of ser-
vice and repair invoices. We conduct
phone interviews and hire independent
expert investigators and engineers to
review failed parts and write an
Investigative Findings Report documenting
our results and send it to the claimant.
“Only in rare instances when we cannot
find an explanation for the problem, even
though the lubricant is not to blame, do
we accept a claim. Paid claims have
amounted to exactly two in the last two
years, which speaks volumes given the
quantity of oil we sell. It was later deter-
mined that both paid claims were ulti-
mately the result of manufacturing errors
on behalf of a major automotive OEM.”

A good article. Well worth reading if you would like to know more about the AMSOIL company.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.
Yet you offer no proof of any of your statements...

Look what happens when an oil company can not substantiate it's claims:

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e...398592.cfm?x=b11,0,w

I'm sure they and other companies would like to do the same to AMSOIL, but they never have...
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I will have to base there products on my own observations as opposed to some BOGUS sales pitch and Bogus Amsoil Tests.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

Yet you offer no proof of any of your statements...


You have not offered any proof with your statements either, I believe what I believe, and as a customer to any company that sells oil that matters more than some salesman who works for a company that has to buy an Oil Analysis Lab to push there agenda.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
Typical Properties are averaged values of many samples for a specific formulation at the time. Values produced at AMSOIL Quality Assurance Lab. The Oil Analyzers analysis is a one time analysis of one sample that may or may not be the exact same formulation and raw materials that AMSOIL reported for Typical Properties. The data sheet is dated Feb. 2010 and may be an improved version of the 0w20. Your sample was early 2008 or perhaps earlier. OAI might have used slightly different test methods than the AMSOIL QA lab.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.

Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.



WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.



WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.



Lab tests don't mean much to me when a company like Amsoil has their own lab run the tests. Mobil OTOH actually shows tear downs, plenty over the years. Not too many for Amsoil though. Too costly, and I don't think it would show value for them over another brand of oil. So its best they stand clear of them, or do as few as possible.

The proof is in the numbers and measurements. You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 0W-20 Motor Oil (ASM)

Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


9.0

Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)


49.1

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)


165

VISC. CCS, cP (ASTM D-5293)


4069 (-35)

Flash Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


228 (442)

Fire Point °C (°F) (COC) (ASTM D-92)


246 (475)

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)


-54 (-65)
NOACK (% weight loss) (ASTM D-5800)


8.6

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)


0.35

Total Base Number


12.1

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity
(ASTM D-4683 @ 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP


2.8

Amsoil ASM 0W-20
TaterandNoodles Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: NENC
This sample is from a case of ASM I bought early last year 2008. I shook it before taking the sample. This is from an open quart from a recent oil change, the same case of oil has been used and tested in my Rio. Testing was by OAI.

Values in PPM

Iron---------------1
Chromium--------0
Nickel-------------0
Aluminum--------2
Copper------------0
Lead---------------0
Tin-----------------1
Cadmium----------0
Silver--------------0
Titanium----------0
Vanadium---------0
Silicon------------1
Sodium-----------3
Potassium--------2
Molybdenum-----0
Antimony---------0
Manganese-------0
Lithium-----------0
Boron--------------14
Magnesium-------11
Calcium--------3344
Barium------------0
Phosphorous----677
Zinc--------------745

CSt Visc. @ 100C----8.7

TBN-------------------9.81
Insolubles--------------0.1%
Oxidation---------------35
Nitration----------------11


Tim, I am seeing some DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

Amsoil is posting a Viscosity at 100 degees celcius of 9.0

I assume OAI is Amsoil's company that posts a 100 degree celcius number of 8.7

Amsoil is posting a TBN of 12.1

OAI is posting a TBN of 9.81

Same exact company, why are there different results.
Typical Properties are averaged values of many samples for a specific formulation at the time. Values produced at AMSOIL Quality Assurance Lab. The Oil Analyzers analysis is a one time analysis of one sample that may or may not be the exact same formulation and raw materials that AMSOIL reported for Typical Properties. The data sheet is dated Feb. 2010 and may be an improved version of the 0w20. Your sample was early 2008 or perhaps earlier. OAI might have used slightly different test methods than the AMSOIL QA lab.


Since I paid for the VOA I think I can comment. OAI had started using Polaris for all their UOA work at the time of this VOA so it is not in house, it is Polaris. I have used Polaris for other oil samples as well, besides Amsoil.

If you go back and check allot of VOA's do not match the printed starting TBN when tested via UOA test criteria. The ASTM method is not neccessarily the same. There are entire threads about the issue in the past. I have also found that Polaris Indy has shown a lower vis on initial runs 5 out of 6 times. When I have had samples re-run they are more in line and as expected. A vis of 8.7 out of 9 I was not even concerned over at the time. If there where multiple VOA's and UOA's with a continuously low vis then I would throw a red flag.

Same oil when tested for UOA had a TBN of 6.35 at 10k miles. Only a 3.5 point drop over 10k miles is really very good. This engine has been using up TBN typically at a minimum of 1 point per 1k miles on other oils.

I do realize TBN depletion is not linear.
HERE ARE ALL OF THE REALLY DUMB,AND NEGATIVE QUOTES ON THIS THREAD


Big Bear quoted

It was so overboard that it made Synlube look good, I always thought the Synlube thread on here was the worst I had ever read, But I have to say that one Renegade Amsoil Salesman has made this the worst thread I have ever read on this board.

a mediocre synthetic such as amzoil

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

Amsoil will not pay anything, read there Warranty, there are too many loopholes for them to get out of paying.

Bear,those are called clauses...every warranty has them for people who try to cheat the warranty.
Warranties from Amsoil mean nothing to me since I know they will find a way to deny them.

I don't care about warranties since the manufactures can wiggle there way out of them, and I do not care about Amsoil's independent tests that just seem to make there oil's look good,

Nobody here is buying this bogus SALES PITCH of independent ASTM testing, there WARRANTY is a joke, I have read it, and all it does is protect Amsoil.


I am sure if I was using Synlube and I said my motor seemed to run better that you would not be questioning me.

Trajan quotes

Can't even explain why his buddy isn't using simlube in that new truck. Despite all the posts defending it.

miroslav kefurt and his minions?

ps, better RL or Amsoil than swill...synlube any day.

Poor Miro. Booted off of so many boards....

So much for all that pro synlube nonsense....

So simlube like...

So why have you yet to do that with that simlube.

or especially, synlube,

It's like talking to synlubbers............

Tim has the kirk thread reading problem.

If I had to chose between Amsoil or Symlube,

Amazing how a simple Redline thread turns into a Amsoil infomercial.

So simlube like..... Tim has the kirk thread reading problem. doesn't go much past the first post or two.
You know what? I have to supress a mouth full of bile for actually finding this:
Yeah, just like simlube "facts". Lots of cheerleading. Little substance.


AD QUOTED

Series 2000 is a grease, you add that to your engine?

In English: They'll try their best not to pay out There are a lot of reckless statements Tim made, many which would put a warranty on a new vehicle in jepardy.


If you take Amsoil's recommendations at face value, you are taking a chance

I'll pass on the Russian Roulette, with 3 bullets in the gun.

Truth is to even mention Amsoil on the same page as Synlube is just so very wrong!

How convient, just like the 4 ball test. LOL Amsoil is not responsible for previously used lubricants. A nice back door out if you ask me.

LOL I'll drink that Amsoil Kool Aid before the Rat Poison Synlube.

If you believe you have Amsoil in your corner, and you believe in 38 years they never had an oil related problem, again you are taking a chance

I WON'T USE AMSOIL ANYMORE! Nada, no way, no cigar! Amsoil. No thanks!

I don't believe in the product, and won't sell it. Remember Amsoil hides their claims, so I ain't buying your 38 year perfect history story.



BIG BEAR QUOTED

The fact is you have given us a BOGUS GEAR OIL WHITE PAPER, Amsoil made up the results, give me a BREAK.

Its plain and simple, Corporate Amsoil is LIEING, meaning they are not telling the truth.

I am not buying it, sorry, I have been around too long, pal. I will never ever be able to believe anything from the Amsoil Website, I believe what I believe, Sorry, I can no longer believe anything that Amsoil prints out.

Tim has now turned Amsoil into Synlube,

I think there oil's will keep an engine cleaner than Amsoil's motor oil's. I believe Amsoil's oil's are kind of old school,

I believe this whole Amsoil Dealership Pyramid Scheme probably adds about $2.00 to every quart of motor oil that Amsoil sells,


I will not believe any article about Amsoil, even if it is written by Reader's Digest or any other magazine, they no longer have any CREDIBILITY with me and many others.

ADF1 QUOTED

Lubes and Greases magazine while informative is not to be taken as Gospel. They sat down with someone from Amsoil, and printed what they were told, wow.

Another reason I won't be using Amsoil again. LOL...... Another shameless Amsoil plug.

I'd rather not deal with Amsoil at all

The company is far from perfect.

Remember Amsoil can say anything they want about ASM and SSO

Covered by the Amsoil warranty, my bet is there will be lots of finger pointing, sleepless nights, and a lawyer. The word of an Amsoil rep doesn't mean much sorry not dissing you, I just don't buy it.


You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.

These so called Amsoil dealers spew lots of worthless info, and make lots and lots of false claims.



WELL GUYS.........TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY THINK!..................
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


WELL GUYS.........TELL US WHAT YOU REALLY THINK!..................


I can't say what I really think Kirk, I might get a time out, and what fun would that be? I bet you can figure it out though.

Truth is there isn't enough bandwidth to quote all the Dumb and Negative quotes you made.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

I can't say what I really think Kirk, I might get a time out, and what fun would that be? I bet you can figure it out though.


Hey AD...what I have figured out..... you are spot on with your remark...saying....."I can't say what I really think Kirk"

That,I have known all along,you really don't think,do you? HERE IS MORE PROOF!

AD QUOTED..........."Truth is there isn't enough bandwidth to quote all the Dumb and Negative quotes you made".

AD........I DARE YOU TO TRY AND GIVE JUST ONE!!!! THE FACTS/TRUTH I POSTED DON'T COUNT! GOOD LUCK WITH THE IMPOSSIBLE TASK OF FINDING WHAT DOESN'T EXIST AS YOU CLAIM!!

AD
Last edited by captainkirk
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.
Why do you think the AMSOIL number is not all that good? How does Edge, Toyota, and Honda blow it away? Their viscosity is a little lower, thus "thinner" and has less film strength to separate moving parts. Do you often start your car at 40C (104F)? And it only sees 40C for only a few seconds as the engine warms up.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.
So?
quote:
WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.


Kirk, I agree with ya on this statement, has Amsoil showed us pics inside engines, no.

I will say that at least Synlube doesn't have to go out and buy a Lab to make there product look good.

My problem with Amsoil is with there business practices and a ROGUE Amsoil Salesman who has made the company look bad in my eyes, that's just how I see it, if I were an Amsoil Dealer I would not even be in this THREAD.

I do not see Mobil or Pennzoil pushing tests in my face, but I am sure seeing it here with Amsoil. I do not need to hear the line " We have had no warranty claims with our oil in 38 years, that's the past.

Amsoil may have made a great Motor Oil back in the 1970's through the late 1990's but everyone is catching up and surpassing them, I am willing to bet none of there oil's will meet the new GF-5 Specs.

I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.
Here is one with a 409,000 mile oil change interval: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf . Do you have a similar one?
Here is a Chevy gas delivery van with 30,000 mile oil change intervals torn down at 930,599 miles: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2578.pdf . Do you have a similar one?
Here is a garbage truck with 8,000 hours: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf Do you have a similar comparison?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc.
How were those I posted above?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.
Kinda of like a Tootsie Pop. We may never know.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Lab tests don't mean much to me when a company like Amsoil has their own lab run the tests.
You think the other oil companies don't use their own labs to run tests?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Mobil OTOH actually shows tear downs, plenty over the years.
Feel free to share. Do any compare with the oil change intervals and miles as the ones I've shown?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Not too many for Amsoil though. Too costly, and I don't think it would show value for them over another brand of oil. So its best they stand clear of them, or do as few as possible.
If those were not enough, I'll be glad to provide more.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: The proof is in the numbers and measurements. You see liars can figure, but figures can't lie.
I agree. It seems AMSOIL provides more proof in numbers and measurements than the others. About 7,000 pages of information on their website. Compare to the others.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Can't even explain why his buddy isn't using simlube in that new truck. Despite all the posts defending it.


Trajan, sometimes you show yourself to be dumb as dirt.

Capt. Kirk doesn't have to explain why "his buddy" isn't using Synlube simply because you say so. Again Trajan, you are as dumb as dirt. I'm going to answer your stupid remark this once. The oil must be changed every 8 000 kms max.

Do you understand now?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

I will say that at least Synlube doesn't have to go out and buy a Lab to make there product look good.



They have their own pet lab for that.


Thank you for correcting me.

I don't think anyone would want to be an Amsoil Rep after reading this THREAD.


Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajan

So,show us where and when those law firms shot down someone using Amsoil............or even......synlube.

By the way,I live on the east coast,just like you do trajan,and only use Amsoil.......and synlube as a customer only. I don't own or sell amsoil,or synlube. My garage/equipment is full of those products. Why Does that bother you??

My name is Kirk,not Miro. I don't live on the west coast like Miro,and I only have one Screen name unlike some of you.


Kirk, I'm sure you have noticed that Trajan starts name calling when he's backed into a corner. I.e., inferring that you are Miro. Dumb as dirt doesn't quite fit. Ignorant does.
Last edited by inhaliburton
quote:
Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.


BMW: The Ultimate Driving Machine


You sure don't see Gary Allan or Pablo going overboard about Amsoil in there posts, ya notice that they are not even participating in this THREAD, probably because the title of this THREAD is " I think I'm sticking with Redline "
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

Amsoil may have made a great Motor Oil back in the 1970's through the late 1990's but everyone is catching up and surpassing them, I am willing to bet none of there oil's will meet the new GF-5 Specs.
So where are their oils formulated for, recommended for and warranted for 35,000 mile oil change intervals and beyond? They still haven't caught up to AMSOIL who has made 25,000 mile motor oils for 38 years! Many of the others are still 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts. Why did they lose 20% of the overall market last year, while AMSOIL had record sales? How much are you willing to bet that none of AMSOIL's oils will meet the new GF-5 specs?

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.
Any proof?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


Bear have a look at Honda's or Toyota's 0w20 oils, especially if you are looking for good protection during start up. The Amsoil 0W20 40*C number is not all that good. Edge, Toyota, and Honda 0w20 blow it away.
Why do you think the AMSOIL number is not all that good? How does Edge, Toyota, and Honda blow it away? Their viscosity is a little lower, thus "thinner" and has less film strength to separate moving parts. Do you often start your car at 40C (104F)? And it only sees 40C for only a few seconds as the engine warms up.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Something else that is interesting about the 4 ball test is they use a different set of numbers when they test the SSO, different temps and different speeds IIRC check the site you'll see. This server isn't allowing me to log into Amsoi's site. Have a look at the 4 ball test for SSO and ASM you'll see what I mean.
So?


The warming up process takes about 20 minutes during winter Tim. Sometimes a few times a day, for many drivers, that is when the most wear occurs. That thicker when cold oil is not as good as you think it is. You should know that though. But you have to do your best to push Amsoil, leaving out some important facts.

There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. Some pretty long OCI's too. Mobil 1 has done tests with teearing engines down. All you are showing us is more of Amsoils sales literature. Its getting old.

Stop and go soccer mom driving is what tires out an engine. Start it up and run it without shutting it down it will last forever. I'm still not impressed.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!


So far all we heard about sinlube is what you and tell us. When you reach 250,000 miles and sell one of your cars to someone who uses it for a few years more let me know. IIRC you haven't hit 200K yet.

I'm 3000 miles away from you Kirk, and quite honestly if I lived around the block I wouldn't waste my time with you.

You say LIFE IS GOOD. FOR ME LIFE IS GREAT. I'm smart enough to see a con job a mile away. That keeps me in the money!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

The warming up process takes about 20 minutes during winter Tim. Sometimes a few times a day, for many drivers, that is when the most wear occurs. That thicker when cold oil is not as good as you think it is. You should know that though.
Again, why do you think the 40C (104F) viscosity number is so important? It is only 1 viscosity at 1 temperature. You must have hot winters. The oil would only be at 40C for about 15 seconds during warm up. Too thick is not good, too thin is not either. Do you have any proof that the other oils 40C viscosity offers better protection as you infer?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. Some pretty long OCI's too.
Please post.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Mobil 1 has done tests with teearing engines down.
Please post all the ones comparable to the ones AMSOIL has done.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: All you are showing us is more of Amsoils sales literature. Its getting old.
You stated that you wanted to see AMSOIL's tear down tests and that's what I provided. Now you complain?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Stop and go soccer mom driving is what tires out an engine. Start it up and run it without shutting it down it will last forever. I'm still not impressed.
Reference please. You really think soccer mom driving is harder on oil and engine than a garbage truck that spends most of it's time at redline?
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?

That was different, right?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE!!

HE WE GO AGAIN WITH THOSE PESKY,UNRELIABLE, CHEAPO LAB TESTS I WARNED ABOUT EARLIER.

I will say it again. The best lab/proof is your engine. Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof.

I don't care about lab tests on oil. I want to see the inside of the engine,the bearings,cam shaft,cleanliness,etc. How far does the typical engine last run on Amsoil vs another oil before it needs a re-build.


Right on, Kirk! Remember the page-after-page of ranting re Synlube's viscosity? They went on and on about it for weeks. Trajan has mentioned it in this thread. What nonsense. They constantly show their ignorance.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.

Any proof?


I actually do have proof, I saved my old Rocker Arms and Pushrods, all I need to do is take some pictures and I will gladly e-mail them to anyone who is interested.

Little bit of history on this car, when I bought it at 25,000 miles I used Mobil 1 from 25K to 200 K

I then used Amsoil from 200K up until 360K

I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.

I am sure you are going to say that if I had started using Amsoil at 25K instead of Mobil 1 that I would still have the original rocker arms and pushrods and they would look perfect.

My old rocker arms and pushrods have some grime on them that Mobil 1 and Amsoil failed to keep clean or clean up.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD


How is one supposed to prove that?

From what I've been reading, a few on here keep throwing stuff at Tim who has responded intelligently and with authority. He has shot down every volley shot at him. He's not pitching Amsoil at all. He's merely answering question that can and has been verified. I don't understand why any of you dare to call him a troll and and a pitch man. I don't see where he needs any of your business. He seems to be doing very well, thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD


How is one supposed to prove that?

From what I've been reading, a few on here keep throwing stuff at Tim who has responded intelligently and with authority. He has shot down every volley shot at him. He's not pitching Amsoil at all. He's merely answering question that can and has been verified. I don't understand why any of you dare to call him a troll and and a pitch man. I don't see where he needs any of your business. He seems to be doing very well, thank you.


Reason NOT to use Amsoil [Re: demarpaint]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39376
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com

It sure seems like Pablo does not think well of Tim, and he is an Amsoil Dealer.


Maybe Pablo will come over and join the DISCUSSION, we need a real Amsoil Salesman.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Awwwwww, shucks Big Grin

I don't know about being a rep, but Tim's Amsoil over all is getting a bit long in the tooth.


BMW: The Ultimate Driving Machine


You sure don't see Gary Allan or Pablo going overboard about Amsoil in there posts, ya notice that they are not even participating in this THREAD, probably because the title of this THREAD is " I think I'm sticking with Redline "


Very true. IIRC, I've even seen them recommend oils other than Amsoil in some threads.

Yeah, they're Amsoil reps. But they know it can stand on its own.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have plenty of experience with Amsoil Motor Oil, I used it for 150,000 miles and my engine was still dirty, I then went to Pennzoil Platinum and this oil cleaned up my motor and made it run better.

Any proof?


I actually do have proof, I saved my old Rocker Arms and Pushrods, all I need to do is take some pictures and I will gladly e-mail them to anyone who is interested.
Sure. Post them here if you can.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Little bit of history on this car, when I bought it at 25,000 miles I used Mobil 1 from 25K to 200 K

I then used Amsoil from 200K up until 360K

I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.

I am sure you are going to say that if I had started using Amsoil at 25K instead of Mobil 1 that I would still have the original rocker arms and pushrods and they would look perfect.
Maybe. Valvoline and Castrol state 4 and 8 times less wear than Mobil 1 in their ads. I've only seen clean, unworn engines with AMSOIL.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:My old rocker arms and pushrods have some grime on them that Mobil 1 and Amsoil failed to keep clean or clean up.
Were those splash lubed? And Pennzoil cleaned them?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I'm still waiting for proof sinlube is as good as you claim. We'll all grow old and die before that happens.

You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though. So a big two thumbs up for that!

As far as your dare, the members that read your drivel about sinlube know all about ya. No point quoting you, they already know.

AD



Thanks for bringing up synlube..........AGAIN.

I am still using it. The proof is in my driveway,and at work. Care to stop by to see the proof.

AD Quote....."You did prove that Amsoil is better than sinlube though"


Hey AD..........and where would that be! SHOW ME!

I simply defended Amsoil as being another great product this thread shows you bashing,just like you did synlube.

BY the way,I had been saving up my used synlube from oil filter changes over the years,and all vehicles,and so forth.

I just sent that used oil back to synlube...and guess what.........FREE.oil shipped back to me. LIFE IS GOOD. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE!

I bet I am spending way less than you are on oil at this stage,and getting awesome results.

AD QUOTE ...."We'll all grow old and die before that happens"

Hey AD........what happens?........my engines wear out. Nah,your wright........grow old and die makes sense to me....before my engines wear out! How did you know that was how it worked!


So far all we heard about sinlube is what you and tell us. When you reach 250,000 miles and sell one of your cars to someone who uses it for a few years more let me know. IIRC you haven't hit 200K yet.

I'm 3000 miles away from you Kirk, and quite honestly if I lived around the block I wouldn't waste my time with you.

You say LIFE IS GOOD. FOR ME LIFE IS GREAT. I'm smart enough to see a con job a mile away. That keeps me in the money!

AD


Yep. What was that he said? Oh yeah "Show me a "tear down" of an engine run on any given oil for a certain interval. That's the real proof."

Haven't seen it for this simlube yet.
quote:
I noticed the car was running different, my friend who was a mechanic looked at it and told me my rocker arms looked worn, so I went ahead and replaced the Rocker Arms and Pushrods.


Tim, I have new Rocker Arms and Pushrods on the car now, I saved the old rocker arms and pushrods.

Yes, my Valvetrain gets splash fed, I think the reason my rocker arms were worn was probably because I had some junk in the lifters that was not letting enough oil get too the Top End of the Motor. JMO
quote:
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Thu June 03 2010 10:19 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?



@ Inhaliburton....Uuuh you have me confused with someone else, I have never posted any pics here at all...Get your accusations straight before you post them...
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?

That was different, right?

Well?


Yes, it is different. Especially as the thread you claim he started does not exsist.

It's this one: https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995/m/242104424 that has my pic in it.

Now, if you had bothered to read, you would see that it was Deltona Dave that started said thread. I know, I know, they sound alike.

If you had bothered to read it, it was your boy kirk who went off on yet another tangent that went nowhere.

So ummm, where exactly is this phantom thread started by kirk that I posted a picture in?
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
quote:
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Thu June 03 2010 10:19 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
I just wanted to talk about Redline...Now it's Amsoil and we got a "synluber' as well. I'm sorry I started this thread...as like every thread here it gets off topic.


You shouldn't be sorry. You didn't do it. Hey, even a thread asking for an E/M equivilent of a brand of compressor oil gets turned into one.


But it was okay for both of you to post pics of your cars unrelated to a thread started by Capt. Kirk?



@ Inhaliburton....Uuuh you have me confused with someone else, I have never posted any pics here at all...Get your accusations straight before you post them...


Don't worry Nuc. He's a bald face liar. There is no such thread started by kirk. He made it up.

The feckless troll suffers from diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.
Last edited by trajan
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. At every tick of the thermometer on up till it reaches operating temps.

In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common. The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C. That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.


Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406



AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. [
So you think all oil viscosities chart in a straight line linear fashion from 10C and lower to operating temperature? Do you have a graph showing this for all 4 oils? And proof that a slightly "thinner" oil film provides more protection than a slightly "thicker" oil film at all temperatures? Please post.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common.
a million times?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions?
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.

You worked on the Fuel Side when you were at Shell, not the Oil Side.


I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points.

I was not aware that I worked on the Fuel Side at Shell. As I have stated at least once before, I provided analytical and tech support for the "oil side". And I've had my own successful motor oil business for 6 years providing tech support to hundreds of my customers.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.


Sorry if you think I am in attack mode. I am not. I don't think I've attacked anyone since I was a linebacker. I'm just asking for data to back up his claims, just as others have asked me for data. I am not aware of "anecdotal testimony" on my part, unless I was asked for some. Please point that out. I try to back up any claims I make with data. I wasn't aware that I am dominating any threads. Mostly just answering questions and asking some of my own.
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Tim 40*C and 100*C are two numbers used in the oil industry. If an oil is flowing better at 40*C it is flowing better at 10*C and even lower, so it is doing its job better at colder temps as in freezing and below, all the way up to operating temps. [
So you think all oil viscosities chart in a straight line linear fashion from 10C and lower to operating temperature? Do you have a graph showing this for all 4 oils? And proof that a slightly "thinner" oil film provides more protection than a slightly "thicker" oil film at all temperatures? Please post. HOW ABOUT PROOF IT DOESN'T?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:In the winter it can take 20 minutes or more to reach operating temps. I've read that a million times before so it is pretty common.
a million times?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The three oils I mentioned were developed for Hybrid cars which are started and stopped frequently and are hard on engines because of that. They were also developed for 5W20 applications offering better cold protection, so it is a big deal IMO. An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.

CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions?
ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:

Posted Fri June 04 2010 08:30 AM Hide Post
Tim, I find it strange that you are attacking AD over this 40 Degree Celcius thing.


quote:
I am not attacking him. I'm trying to teach him to back up his statements with facts. Actually, he was attacking AMSOIL on the 40 Degree Celsius thing. Just find it odd that he thinks the viscosity at 104F is the Holy Grail to determine cold weather start up performance. I thought most people that post on oil boards would know that viscosity vs temperature graphs are curves, not straight lines. And as any 5th grader will tell you, you cannot define a curve on only two points


Tim, I have to agree with Big Bear. You sure do appear to come off in attack mode. You always demand "proof" yet only offer "anecdotal testimony" in defense of your claims. To be completely honest, this thread, and the others you dominate are just plain exhaustingly redundant with the circular logic you employ.



Thanks johnpr3, I asked Tim for some proof, since most if not all his claims are "anecdotal testimony" he uses in defense. We'll throw it back into the circle. I want to see hard core facts not some garbage Amsoil thru together in some ad campaign, or home study guide they hand out for the $35 dealers fee.

AD
quote:
"anecdotal testimony"


The proof you offer is sales literature...simple as that. And over and over and over again. I'm sure you are a nice person in real life, but, the constant sales mode is not really appreciated on this board. I lose track of what the threads are about. They always end up about how Amsoil walks on water. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. How about starting your own Amsoil thread to share your information with those interested in finding out more about their products. I would check it.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.
I thought I already have. You cannot extrapolate a curve based on 1 or 2 data points. How is AMSOIL a bit behind the times? Can you prove you are right?


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
"anecdotal testimony"


The proof you offer is sales literature...simple as that.
Has anyone proven the sales literature is incorrect, like Castrol did to Royal Purple and Valvoline and Castrol did to Mobil 1 5w30?
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3: How about starting your own Amsoil thread to share your information with those interested in finding out more about their products. I would check it.
There is one on AMSOIL New Car warranty, AMSOIL filters and AMSOIL SSO (0w30)
Tim, all of us here are customers to whatever oil brand we buy, we are going to chose oil's that we like, and we do not have to provide any data to support why we are using a particular oil. I go by other people like myself who will offer me there observations on various oil's. I am not looking for a sales pitch and I could care less if Amsoil had some test that showed its product did better than the oil I am using.

I personally agree with AD about looking at the 40 Degree Celcius Number, I remember using 10W-30 in my engine since this is what it was speced for, so I tried a 5W-30 motor oil and the car seemed to run better, my observations are telling me that the thinner oil is getting to the moving parts quicker.

I have another car that is speced for 5W-20 and I will be following AD's advice and give the Castrol Edge 0W-20 a try during the winter time, I keep a log of my gas mileage so I will see how it does compared to the Amsoil 0W-20 that I used last winter.

Do I always agree with AD, NO, we both like different transmission fluids and I feel the trans fluid I use gives me the best shifting, I do not need some test from Amsoil to give me a reaon to use it, I use it based on my observations.

I have never asked AD for any proof about the products he has recommended too me, I trust his observations, and everything he has recommended has worked well for me, he is also not getting paid in anyway for the products that he has told me about.

Everything you tell us in this thread I have to question, because you are a Salesman for Amsoil whereas the rest of us are paying customers and car guys with no hidden AGENDA.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:


I personally agree with AD about looking at the 40 Degree Celcius Number, I remember using 10W-30 in my engine since this is what it was speced for, so I tried a 5W-30 motor oil and the car seemed to run better, my observations are telling me that the thinner oil is getting to the moving parts quicker.
Totally different. AD was talking about very slight differences in 0w20 viscosity at 104F and how he could extrapolate that data point to determine which oil offered the best cold winter start protection. A bit silly, don't you think? You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold weather starting. That is why SAE came up with those standards.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: Everything you tell us in this thread I have to question, because you are a Salesman for Amsoil whereas the rest of us are paying customers and car guys with no hidden AGENDA.
I am also a paying customer, motorhome, motorcycle, sports car and minivan guy with no hidden AGENDA. And I welcome your questions. It gives us all a chance to learn from each other. There is so much bad info, myths, wives tales, untruths, etc., it gives me and others a chance to help clear those up.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
An oil that has a Viscosity of 38 cST at 40C is better for cold protection than one that has a Viscosity of 49 cST at 40C.
Please provide proof. Just because an oil has a slightly higher viscosity than 3 other oils at 104F, does not necessarily mean it will be more viscous than the other 3 in cold weather.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: That 38 cST oil will get to the desired operating viscosity faster too.
Please provide proof of this statement also. CAN YOU PROVE IT WRONG?

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:CAN YOU PROVE I'M WRONG? SEEMS THE OIL COMPANIES ARE STRIVING FOR IT, AND AMSOIL IS A BIT BEHNID THE TIMES.
I thought I already have. You cannot extrapolate a curve based on 1 or 2 data points. How is AMSOIL a bit behind the times? Can you prove you are right? YOU'RE THE SALESMAN, I'M A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER PROVE ME WRONG. WHY ARE THE OIL COMPANIES STRIVING FOR IT? SIMPLE TO REDUCE ENGINE WEAR.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:Just wondering this is off Amsoil's site why is it they use a certain set of numbers when testing ASM, then different numbers for testing SSO? Speed and temps are different, IIRC a slower speed is harder on this worthless for testing oil test.

Four Ball Wear, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 40kg, 1 hour (ASTM D-4172B)
0.35



Vs.

SSO
Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.406
Two different viscosities. Two different ASTM methods. How would 1200 revolutions be harder than 1800 revolutions
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF AMSOIL REPS GIVING BAD INFO THEN?
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
ACCORDING TO AN AMSOIL REP, THEY APPLY MORE PRESSURE TO SLOW THE MACHINE DOWN. WHY NOT TEST ALL OILS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD FOR SIMPLICITY? STILL A WORTHLESS TEST FOR CHECKING OIL, BUT LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES IF WERE GOING TO USE TEST RESULTS.

AD


The pressure is still the same. 40kg is 40kg. Why should they test different SAE viscosity oils the same? They do test the same SAE viscosity oils the same. Apples to apples.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF AMSOIL REPS GIVING BAD INFO THEN?
I don't know. I don't know who said what for sure. I'm not aware of any AMSOIL Dealers or employees giving bad info. I think you mentioned an example one time and it was actually correct information. Do you have another example? Not "he said, she said" but direct quotes in context?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.
quote:
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


I guess Amsoil Motor Oil will not be going up in price since they had RECORD sales last year.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


I guess Amsoil Motor Oil will not be going up in price since they had RECORD sales last year.

Unlike their competitors, AMSOIL has not implented nor announced a price increase nor customer allocations yet, but hinted at it a month or two ago.

Their last price increase was in September 2008. They reduced prices in the US in March and April 2009, and in Canada a few months ago.

I think since they are experiencing record sales, that they are able to get better bulk prices from their vendors, and their new blending and bottling facility is running more efficiently. And I think they have contracts with some of their base oil suppliers that they have to supply AMSOIL first, and their oil brands second. All of these factors should help keep price increases, if any, likely lower than their competitors IMHO.

Since there is a shortage of base oils now, and likely to get worse with the BP disaster in the Gulf, I would expect prices to go up even further and shortages more frequent until around the first of the year. Especially BP/Castrol.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
You are talking about 5w vs 10w. Of course that will make a difference in cold starting.


I will probably be using Castrol Edge 0W-20 in my cars during the winter time because I sometimes do short trip driving and I want the oil to get up to operating temperature as fast as possible.

I have to use what is best for my cars and if the Castrol Edge turns out that it is not the best then it is back to Pennzoil Platinum.

My style of driving does not allow me to do extended drains.
Better buy it now if you want to save money. The price lady at my Wal-Mart was marking it up to $7.59 a quart and most of the other oils as well this morning. She said she had to change 250 Wal Mart prices today, and most of them were motor oil prices. Nearly all of the motor oil brands are going up in price due to the scarcity of base oils. Several have also announced reduced allocations to their customers or will shortly.


Amsoil will be soon to follow if that's the deal. I scored 5 qts of Edge with a Bosch Premium Plus Filter for $30, then had a $10 off coupon from AAP they honored. Guess it was the Uniform Smile. Can't beat those prices, grabbed some for me and the GF.

AD
The oil is not..'moot' as you say,TRAJAN,just the opposite.....the oil is paramount...the oil is everything,and the only thing.

Take basic group II motor oil,group III,and group IV oil,and install each in a separate beaker, or pan/pot and cook them to 'death"...outside of course on a hot plate,or burner. Don't ignite the oil,just cook it "HARD",and smoke the oil almost dry!

The cheaper base stock oils will produce sludge EVERY TIME,while the group IV will not....ever,never,can't, won't.....get it Trajan......no impurities=NO SLUDGE=GROUP IV. "THE PROOF IS IN THE PAN".....

Hey Kirk, Where in the world would a properly functioning engine reach temperatures that would "coke" any oil. Sure I can make oil, synthetic grp IV or dino oil coke if I put it in a petri dish, put a bunsen burner under it. Does an engine see temps like 2000 degrees Fahrenheit? If it did, it would not run long. Lead (primary bearing material melts at about 500 degrees F). My engine never sees temps over 190 F. Anyone can take a MAPP gas or Oxy-acy. torch and coke oil. Most engines see maybe 250 degrees under extreme conditions. Oil will not coke at those temps.
Here is an interesting article I found today on BITOG.

http://www.my350z.com/forum/en...alysis-and-info.html

No bashing, just a fair opinion from a respected member.

Seems that Amsoil touts "moly" is bad for engine, based on Cummins documentation. The Cummins recommendation was based on no Moly on rebuild grease/lubes when doing an overhaul. Not on motor oil, that Amsoil people tout. Cummins suggests using non-moly assembly lubes when overhauling a diesel.

Linke

To me, Amsoil is good oil, but not the "bestest". I just received 3 5qts of Pennzoil dino 5w-30 for some computer work I did for a friend. It is going in my wife's altima and my titan for 5 K. No worries here.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Can you reset the OLM in that car, or is their some proprietary progam that the dealer uses?


Oh, just thought I'd tell you I reset the service countdown. It now reads 15500 miles till the next oil change. (Well, if it was still under warranty that's when they would do it.)

Dave, that 350z link was a good read.

As for our bud, eh, what can I say that hasn't been said.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:



There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. still not impressed.

AD



That above statement is.................BULL.

SHOW US THE ALLEGED ENGINE WITH DOCUMENTED,UNDISPUTED PROOF AS YOU CLAIM.

I also want to see the exact vintage of that engine. Try that on a modern day emission engine. Even so,I say it's bogus,and/or greatly exaggerated!

Kirk
quote:
The oil is not..'moot' as you say,TRAJAN,just the opposite.....the oil is paramount...the oil is everything,and the only thing.


True, the Motor Oil is the Lifeblood of an Engine, but there are other things that can lead to engine failures and then the owner has to decide whether it is worth fixing or not.

1) Cooling System, if this is not maintained, meaning that the coolant is not changed often enough you can get deposits in the radiator and the rest of the Cooling System that can lead to a head gasket going bad or the car overheats.

2) PCV System, if this gets clogged up you can get oil leaks or even Sludge developing in the engine.

If you do not change your oil often enough the additive package in the oil can get depleted which can lead to Varnish and Sludge. If your engine gets dirty inside then oil can have a hard time flowing around the engine to lubricate all of the parts.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:



There's a million mile Ford Tim, running cheap dino when the guy got around to changing it. still not impressed.

AD



That above statement is.................BULL.

SHOW US THE ALLEGED ENGINE WITH DOCUMENTED,UNDISPUTED PROOF AS YOU CLAIM.

I also want to see the exact vintage of that engine. Try that on a modern day emission engine. Even so,I say it's bogus,and/or greatly exaggerated!

Kirk


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1338944&page=1

Kirk, check this Link out.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
The oil is not..'moot' as you say,TRAJAN,just the opposite.....the oil is paramount...the oil is everything,and the only thing.


True, the Motor Oil is the Lifeblood of an Engine, but there are other things that can lead to engine failures and then the owner has to decide whether it is worth fixing or not.

1) Cooling System, if this is not maintained, meaning that the coolant is not changed often enough you can get deposits in the radiator and the rest of the Cooling System that can lead to a head gasket going bad or the car overheats.

2) PCV System, if this gets clogged up you can get oil leaks or even Sludge developing in the engine.

If you do not change your oil often enough the additive package in the oil can get depleted which can lead to Varnish and Sludge. If your engine gets dirty inside then oil can have a hard time flowing around the engine to lubricate all of the parts.


His own links failed to support his sludge theory over and over again. And he just can't deal with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Can you reset the OLM in that car, or is their some proprietary progam that the dealer uses?


Oh, just thought I'd tell you I reset the service countdown. It now reads 15500 miles till the next oil change. (Well, if it was still under warranty that's when they would do it.)

Dave, that 350z link was a good read.

As for our bud, eh, what can I say that hasn't been said.


Trajan,
From what I can tell, is any good motor oil will protect an engine period. I don't care if it is a group II sludge oil, or a Grp V ester oil. I have no problems with a good "full synthetic" or a proven dino oil like Pennzoil. They work fine in my applications.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I really have no faith in Kirk, as most of his links are over 5 years old. Motor oil has made changes leaps and bounds in the past few years. I am confident that PYB (a grp II oil) will protect as good as any grp III/IV oil by today's standards. Sorry, but Dino oil is as good as most synthetics now days.

Dave


It's good enough for a 2010 V6 Camaro. It was good enough for my 94 and 97 ones. Until 1998 it was good enough for many BMWs.

If dino is good enough for an application, no reason to use synth.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I really have no faith in Kirk, as most of his links are over 5 years old. Motor oil has made changes leaps and bounds in the past few years. I am confident that PYB (a grp II oil) will protect as good as any grp III/IV oil by today's standards. Sorry, but Dino oil is as good as most synthetics now days.

Dave


I agree with you Dave that Dino oil nowadays is as good as any synthetic oil in protecting an engine.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I really have no faith in Kirk, as most of his links are over 5 years old. Motor oil has made changes leaps and bounds in the past few years. I am confident that PYB (a grp II oil) will protect as good as any grp III/IV oil by today's standards. Sorry, but Dino oil is as good as most synthetics now days.

Dave



And I........have no faith in you Dave....as I proved you to be a LIAR with the thread you started stating Dino oil is not bad with a photo of lawn mower engine. WHAT A JOKE THAT WAS!!!

Remember,the whole thread you started was based on the clean innards of your mower engine run on dino oil.............


...........However,as I was the ONLY one who discovered, and proved,the whole thread you started was a.............SHAM....BASED ON A MAJOR LIE.

Remember...the mower engine was totally shot,and sludged up. Did you forget already? THE WHOLE THREAD WAS BASED ON A LIE........PERIOD.......

In sum.........you have no credit whatsoever sir! At least I stick to facts!!

NO one,has ever proven me wrong,you included,because I don't lie,or exaggerate,I stick to the facts.......PERIOD.

You have issues with facts, I have noticed. People who lie,like you,usually have issues with facts.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
The oil is not..'moot' as you say,TRAJAN,just the opposite.....the oil is paramount...the oil is everything,and the only thing.

Take basic group II motor oil,group III,and group IV oil,and install each in a separate beaker, or pan/pot and cook them to 'death"...outside of course on a hot plate,or burner. Don't ignite the oil,just cook it "HARD",and smoke the oil almost dry!

The cheaper base stock oils will produce sludge EVERY TIME,while the group IV will not....ever,never,can't, won't.....get it Trajan......no impurities=NO SLUDGE=GROUP IV. "THE PROOF IS IN THE PAN".....

Hey Kirk, Where in the world would a properly functioning engine reach temperatures that would "coke" any oil. Sure I can make oil, synthetic grp IV or dino oil coke if I put it in a petri dish, put a bunsen burner under it. Does an engine see temps like 2000 degrees Fahrenheit? If it did, it would not run long. Lead (primary bearing material melts at about 500 degrees F). My engine never sees temps over 190 F. Anyone can take a MAPP gas or Oxy-acy. torch and coke oil. Most engines see maybe 250 degrees under extreme conditions. Oil will not coke at those temps.



AS USUAL DAVE................YOU ARE WRONG.

An engine does see those temps............in the upper cylinder area,piston rings,heads,overhead cams,and especially hot running engines,etc.

Where you do think all the sludge comes from?

Why do you think both Amsoil...and....Mobil do similar tests. Remember the mobil 1 frying pan commercial years ago.


Here is a link talking about cooking motor oil...

http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...0100505141148AAJ2zde

The link will also mention "cold" sludge which is an issue too.



Kirk
Yeah, sure. "facts" from some guy who pushes a sham oil... The same guy who posts links that show his own theories to be false, and yet screams about it.

Let's play the inhaliburton game. According to that boy, failure to reply to accusations means that they're true.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/li...ptain-kirk-ff6ca.htm

None of you simlubbers ever replied to this. So by his rules, they are true.

Well, we know they're true any way.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, sure. "facts" from some guy who pushes a sham oil... The same guy who posts links that show his own theories to be false, and yet screams about it.

Let's play the inhaliburton game. According to that boy, failure to reply to accusations means that they're true.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/li...ptain-kirk-ff6ca.htm

None of you simlubbers ever replied to this. So by his rules, they are true.

Well, we know they're true any way.



Trajan........WE ALL KNOW you created that bogus report. We all know you live in SE. PA, where the report came from. Your writing style proves it too! No one really reads those bogus rip off reports anyway. The guy running those is an extortionist.


By the way........how is that turkey hill gas station doing around the corner from you.

Too bad..........your last endeavor flopped miserably and you with it.


Moreover,I see you are the one who brought up synlube.............again..........you are the one who..................BURNS...........not me. Are U taking antacids for the condition?

I still have a job/career,a very good one too.......unlike you!

Must really burn you... that I know who you are. Your a real..."winner",and everyone knows it.

I hope you are enjoying your................... "sabbatical"....
Last edited by captainkirk
Okay Kirk, You are saying it is normal for an average internal combustion (car) engine to exceed over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Not! Yeah, I posted a few pics from a small generator, but that engine sees normal operating temps of 210 Fahrenheit. What is wrong with that? How about disclaiming the "amsoil" tests with Cummins diesel engines with moly? Hmm.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Okay Kirk, You are saying it is normal for an average internal combustion (car) engine to exceed over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. Not! Yeah, I posted a few pics from a small generator, but that engine sees normal operating temps of 210 Fahrenheit. What is wrong with that? How about disclaiming the "amsoil" tests with Cummins diesel engines with moly? Hmm.

Dave


You posted pics from a generator,but I was referring to the "shot" mower engine pics.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I would love to see an internal combustion engine that sees over 5OO degrees Fahrenheit.



WELL DAVE........I guess you better tell Amsoil, Mobil,and others how foolish they are for doing those motor oil coking test.

Apparently,you claim to be smarter then the big guys.


Here is another link exemplifying thermal stress on oil..........and look...it's only 4 years old.......(Dave thinks the laws of physics/chemistry changes every 5 years).........

http://www.custom-car.us/turbo/lubrication.aspx


You see Dave,some of us know that the "overall" oil temp in an engine will see, as you state 200+ degrees,but we also know that there are thermal hot/cool spots in all engines that can,and will "coke" and sludge the oil(the cheap stuff). Hence,the reason for all those gunked up engines,and the need for better oil standards.....again,such as GF-5 and now dexos.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
Here I have to give a nod to the Captain. The ring area is surely subject to oil coking. Maybe even the underside of the piston. The amount will vary as will the time frame of formation.

Red Line would be about the best formulation for resisting such coke formation.


Thanks,GeeAea.

This is another blurp about heat and motor oil that supports your above comment.

quote..

"In performing its lubrication function, some oil must reach the area of the top piston ring in order to lubricate the rings and cylinder walls. This oil is then exposed to the heat and the flame of burning fuel, and part of it actually burns off."


Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
Here I have to give a nod to the Captain. The ring area is surely subject to oil coking. Maybe even the underside of the piston. The amount will vary as will the time frame of formation.

Red Line would be about the best formulation for resisting such coke formation.


Interesting comments about the RL oil, it is a great oil.

IIRC cylinder temps can reach 1000*F, but the crankcase temps won't. That could lead to some confusion here. If the crankcase temps hit 1000*F you'd have some real issues.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
You have issues with facts, I have noticed. People who lie,like you,usually have issues with facts.


Hey Capitan Kirk, there's another person on here who has trouble in his past with being truthful.

Hint: He has a neighbour with an engine that was sludged from using Synlube.



Actually,his "story",went from blown engine,to then......sludged up engine.

I guess it's hard for him to keep all of his..."stories"...straight. I guess the meds sometime have that effect,especially when he's off.....his Meds.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeAea:
Here I have to give a nod to the Captain. The ring area is surely subject to oil coking. Maybe even the underside of the piston. The amount will vary as will the time frame of formation.

Red Line would be about the best formulation for resisting such coke formation.


Interesting, is this something that develops with different types of driving habits.

Will " Oil Coking " develop more under short trip driving or highway driving.
Inhaliburton/Miro....What's this about being truthful?

Captain Kirk....Why were you banned at BITOG?

You 'two' have no room accusing anybody...not with your track record...your inability to tell the truth often...and then getting angry when caught in your baldface lies, has led to you 'two' having lost any credibility on this, or any other board, your still allowed to troll on.

Kirk will you ever post the pics you have promised us, of your generator? What's it been 2 months and counting...
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Inhaliburton/Miro....What's this about being truthful?

Captain Kirk....Why were you banned at BITOG?

You 'two' have no room accusing anybody...not with your track record...your inability to tell the truth often...and then getting angry when caught in your baldface lies, has led to you 'two' having lost any credibility on this, or any other board, your still allowed to troll on.

Kirk will you ever post the pics you have promised us, of your generator? What's it been 2 months and counting...



Nuke,I mean Trajan,whatever...........NOW YOUR JUST BABBLING!