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Jayesh,

One way to identify better product, for general maintenence lubricants,is by specification. In the case of Engine oils for Petrol/Gasoline applications; benchmark against API performance specs. From the now obselete, API SA grade, SF is better and SG better (than SF) and SH better than SG.

Similiarly for other applications, like Hydraulic oils, AW type is better than an R&O type. AW High VI possibly better than plain AW.

However each application has its own unique performance needs and using a better performace grade may not give any better results.

Your query is more appropriate for productions oils, like Metal working or cutting oils. Take the case of "Gun drilling" or Trepanning operations. In the 90's Castrol India offered Ilocut 334, Ilocut 3341 and Ilocut 534. Each one different from the other in both price and performance. MICO India preferred to use Ilocut 534 and they observed that with the the Sandvik "Cormonut" drill or for that matter similiar, Widia drill, Mico India was able to get more number of pieces drilled with Ilocut 534, than with Ilocut 334 or Ilocut 3341.

Trust this answers your query.

Hussam Adeni
Jayesh Patel

What you are trying to get at maybe the criteria for selection of lubricants.

OEM have conducted studies with certain type of lubricants in terms of life ,performance and compatability with system components like rubber seals, bearing materials etc....

But if there are lubricants that match/exceed the recommendation of the OEM than definitely you can use the same.

You have to look at the performance characteristics like engine tests results for example ,even though the lubricant might meet the specifcation,the level of protection more than the specification is what you should look at in selecting alternatives.

Hope this throws some light to your query.
Several years ago we decided to reduce the number of oils that we carry in the plant. Up until that time we had been using the OEM recommended lubricant in most of our equipment. All of the oil companies that wanted our business were willing to come in and determine which of their oils was compatible with the OEMs spec. In some cases we deviated from the OEMs spec because of our specific knowledge of how the equipment was run.
quote:
Originally posted by Jayesh Patel:
Generally in industry users only use the recommended lubricants by the machine manufacturer even better lubricants for the same application is available.
I would like to know which basic parameters one has to look at for selecting better lubricants.
Regds.


There is way to rationalise lubricants other than OEM recommendation, in oil industry we call it as 'lubrication survey'. It is general practice for industry to use OEM recommended oils during warranty period if the equipment/engine is very expensive. For example powerr plant diesel engines, Turbines etc.
After the warranty period, industry users can choose their oils in cosultation with oil suppliers/technical representative.
Kumar email kumartr2@yahoo.com

Kumar
Basic Parameters are determined by the application condition and what is available in the market.
They may include Load, enviornment,temp speeds etc.
Primarily, the OEMs also consider the above and decide on what is available in the market, and come close to the specs of the lube which either match or exceed the specs,
If it is inferior, than some times we need to use more.
Speciality Lubes are all sold on application understandings.
Yes you are right to certain extent.I am not getting into this at all.
I am only suggesting the way for Lubrication selection.OEM has other parameters also in mind, like international spread and services.
However in India, I have seen everything localised on physical parameters rather than performance parameters and still holding the warranty.
How do you explain this?
"Generally in industry users only use the recommended lubricants by the machine manufacturer even better lubricants for the same application is available."
----------------------------------
Great question. This is an issue throughout the industry. Why ad another lube to your site based on warranty issues? Why bother trying to consolidate the products at your location, when the engineering group has no idea what you have accomplished by consolidating lubes.
What could we do?
1)Let the engineering group know what products you have on site & discourage bringing in another product, if possible.
2)What do you do when you do not have a product that meets the required spec's?
Oil analysis could be used as documentation that supports healthy machinery. Wouldn't this be honored by a warranty?

Anyone have experience with this?

Jim
quote:
Originally posted by Jim:
"Generally in industry users only use the recommended lubricants by the machine manufacturer even better lubricants for the same application is available."
----------------------------------
Great question. This is an issue throughout the industry. Why ad another lube to your site based on warranty issues? Why bother trying to consolidate the products at your location, when the engineering group has no idea what you have accomplished by consolidating lubes.
What could we do?
1)Let the engineering group know what products you have on site & discourage bringing in another product, if possible.
2)What do you do when you do not have a product that meets the required spec's?
Oil analysis could be used as documentation that supports healthy machinery. Wouldn't this be honored by a warranty?

Anyone have experience with this?

Jim

The very important issue here is the engine/equipment cost. If it is not much expensive, some times OEMs do agree with users request to use other than OEM recommended oil brand if the oil specificationperformance is similar. But, OEMs very rarely agree to use non recommended brand if the equipment is expensive and its operational parameters rely on oil condition and oil specification is not well defined. Typical example for this kind of application is diesel engine power plant generators. I like to highlight my experience that I faced recently. One of our clients wanted to use non OEM recommended engine oil in WARTSILA diesel engine (10 MW) but WARTSILA did not agree and the engine was covered under warranty.Finally, WARTSILA agreed for a field test with non recommended oil covering almost a year. Actually this field test has lead to obtaining WARTSILA approval.

Neither I support nor oppose OEMs view for insisting to use recommended oil brand use. Let us analyse ourselves the issues involved:

1) OEMs view these type cases on global basis; not on any particular country or region basis.
2) Not all oil suppliers are reputed and credible
3)Oil testing can be credible tool for performance evaluation, but oil labs testing repeatabilty/reproduciblity, sampling techniques etc pose number of questions rather than answers.

Kumar

kumartr2@yahoo.com
Choosing the best option should be your goal. The SAE SM rating for engine oils will be available soon. Stats and specs like Noack and Four-Ball Wear comparisons will be surpisingly revealing to compare engine lubricant performance. In the grease catagory, the "Water Washout Test" will show how well a grease will remain in place. In conclusion, using synthetics is always wise.
quote:
Originally posted by Jayesh Patel:
Generally in industry users only use the recommended lubricants by the machine manufacturer even better lubricants for the same application is available.
I would like to know which basic parameters one has to look at for selecting better lubricants.
Regds.


OEMs rely on, and advocate, proven/tested lubricants for a particular application. Oil companies’ lubricants R&D in this competitive world in which we live is an endless race for better, more efficient lubes. We (industrial lube users) should just kick back and enjoy the benefits of such situation. However, I am not suggesting that we should go out and replace our lube (which BTW perform satisfactorily) every time a new product is introduced to the market. My suggestion is for end-users to write used lubricant specifications based on OEM info and recommendation. With that info in hand, one should explore specs offered through the web and contact lube manufacturers (not necessarily in the suggested order), and then ask manufacturers for the POC of companies that already are using those new products. In another words, current acceleration in development of new lubes requires constant update of the end-users knowledge. Nevertheless, the economical decision to switch lubes should be based primarily on the performance rather that on the fact that there are better lubes out there on the market. If things are working fine - don’t rock a boat, but be aware of the choices on the market in case things go sour or your current lube is at the end of its service life and need to be replaced.

John

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