Mobil 1 = High Fe wear?

Buster

Anti-friction, sometimes called lubricity, is defined as the ability of a lubricant to reduce friction, other than by its purely viscous properties. Anti-friction additives reduce friction below that of the base oil alone under conditions of boundary lubrication. The additives are adsorbed on, or react with the metal surface or its oxide to form monolayers of low shear strength material. The compounds are long chain (greater than 12 carbon atoms), alcohols, amines, and fatty acids. A classic example is oleic acid reacting with iron oxide to form a film of the iron oleate soap. The low shear strength of the soap film causes the low friction.

An observed quality of M1 is its ability to produce bhp (compared to non ester based oils) also lack of ability to take heat away from certain components. My guess is that it could be a spin off from "Supersyn" chemistry. The high fe levels cannot be directly linked to wear from the evidence of UOAs and unlikely to be factory fill if there was a direct link to high wear.

I'm not sure either if wear can be determined via UOA's all the time. Same can be said with Redline.

I'm sure Mobil chemists know what they are doing. I sometimes think that because they are competing with other Group III oils, this puts them at a disadvantage and they then have to cut corners somewhere....

I'm sure the Fe/valvetrain wear is fine for most specifications and users, but for many obsessed perfectionists like myself and other BITOG members, we want the lowest wear possible. Mobil 1 doesn't seem to satisfy.

Buster,

On what basis are you calculating wear from UOAs? and how do you know its valvetrain wear?and what is causing this valvetrain wear?

I agree with your sentiments re "only the best will do" but too many unanswered questions re UOAs with RL and M1 which creates speculation but not evidence that High fe = wear in the case of M1.

MG, I'm not 100% sure it is valvetrain wear, but if you go to bobistheoilguy.com, numerous oil analysis reports show Mobil 1 with much higher Fe wear then universal averages and other oils. No one knows where the Fe is comming from. Some said it's not wear, as I posted above, but the more I read about it, it does seem like some type of wear. Their have been cases in which oils were run side by side under the same conditions. Mobil 1 showed 40ppm of Fe wear, then when using a competitor, the wear dropped to 16ppm. In general, we've seen alot of reports with Fe elevated to some degree. Again though, it might not be Fe wear.

Buster

Catching up on BITOG & RL

Perhaps a conflict between ASTM D1748 and Cleaning and deposits.

MG, could very well be. In talking with two labs, Oil analyzers and Blackstone labs, they said that Fe wear in the 20's is very low, yet to most on BITOG, that is high. I've seen some labs state that Fe is high when it's over 150ppm. So who knows really....

Buster

Again speculation
Dino tends to lay down varnish and sludge. What possible "wear" metals are locked up in these deposits.


Motul 300V does warn against road use. This is a high diester/ester oil with all the benefits downside just appears to be cost, but race situations are constant high heat. Maybe just use less anti corrosion or the base oil may cause a problem when dealing with circumstances that can arise on road car if not fully warmed each outing. The wear maybe insignificant but may cause a small spike.

Good points MGBV8. I'm running Mobil 1 Extended Performance now, which has 50% more SuperSyn PAO in it, and my car runs better then ever. I don't know what the answer is with the Fe levels, but your points are well taken and could be right. Oils are becomming increasingly complex compared to days past, when alot of ZDDP was the primary additive. Now we have Boron and Moly and even Sodium used as anti-wear additives. I think all of this makes it tough to really judge wear metals via UOA's at times. Redline has an excellent reputation, but on BITOG, it's reputation is poor.

Buster,

If we assume it is valvetrain wear and M1 are not relying on esters perhaps this is a weakness esp. when ZDDP is reduced, as on their own Dino GIII and esters being better than PAO. Castrol have perhaps resolved the "problem" with an ester derived from PAO. Silkolene pro is a 20% ester PAO oil and an interesting UOA on BITOG.

Buster,

Another idea on M1

To produce corrosion the engine will also need to have an exposed surface that is not protected by oil film or a build up of varnish. An ester film or mineral oil for varnish should give good protection but M1 !

If left standing and the engine heats up during the day and cools down at night. The cooling process could condense water vapor in the engine.

4 years now and Mobil 1 still shows higher Fe readings. Engines don't seem to be failing so I guess it's not a big deal.

Any ICP numbers on new Mobil 1?

Which grade, AFE 0w20?

Fe and other wear metals do trend higher than other brands. Whether it's significant or not seems to be a matter of opinion.

As you put miles on engines, do you have to start adding oil between oil changes.
How long between oil changes? If you take oil sample after 3K miles has iron increased?

quote:

Originally posted by RobertC:
Any ICP numbers on new Mobil 1?

That question was overlooked .

Anyway it's yet another tool that can be used for BMW's , FSI Audi built engines and other late models. It's not the end of all but ... another tool .

Here's what our friends @ Noria wrote about it .

Understanding Ferrous Density

Good find.

These days the performance coatings the OEM's are using can effect results . Ferrocoat and Ferrostan on Audi-Porsche-BMW pistons used in the ALUSIL blocks . The piston company Mahle uses Grafal on the skirts and some of these can even throw of some Manganese when the coatings are formulated with it.

The Lexus 2UR-GSE using higher copper in the make-up of the cylinder liners , Alumite faced piston rings and the makers of performance coatings digging deeper into the periodic tables yearly it seems . Some day will we be looking for palladium , ruthium , zirconium and the likes ?

Then factor in both lab error and allowance like ZDDP Plus speaks about here and ----- ?

Anyway , i believe Mobil makes a great oil and the company is one of the leaders in many different ways .

Have you seen Castrol's new claim? Edge offers 8 x better wear protection than Mobil 1 based on the Seq IVA wear test. Interesting.....


Then Johnny went to Daytona and found that most of the cars were running Mobil 1 5w30 off the shelf. One of the lead engineers said they use it because "it works".