New Car Warranty using Amsoil...

quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
In a pissing contest, position is everything. Under warranty, the auto maker has position

Trajan, from your dumb posts, I surmize that you face upwind in a strong breeze.



inHaliburton.........In the contest Trajan speaks of, I can only Imagine one position Trajan would be in.........that would be........ SEATED ,as in a squat position.
"We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle warranty claims per year," reported Albert’s son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice president and chief operating officer. "We investigate each one comprehensively, examine maintenance records, mileage, type of service and repair invoices. We conduct phone interviews and hire independent expert investigators and engineers to review failed parts and write an Investigative Findings Report documenting our results and send it to the claimant. "Only in rare instances when we cannot find an explanation for the problem, even though the lubricant is not to blame, do we accept a claim.

Guys, I found this on an Amsoil Dealers Site, it seems to me that anyone who submits a Warranty Claim to Amsoil is going to get an in depth investigation, it does not sound like Amsoil is going to just hand you the money right away to get your engine fixed.

1) Investigate each one COMPREHENSIVELY
2) Examine Maintenance Records
3) Mileage
4) Type of Service
5) Repairs
6) Phone Interviews
7) Hire Independent expert investigators and engineers to review failed parts and write an Investigative Findings Report DOCUMENTING our results and send it to the claimant.

These words are from the owner's son who is an executive vice president and chief operating officer.

Tim, our Amsoil Pusher on here said a Warranty Claim would be cleared up very quickly, from what Alan Amatuzio has said it just does not seem like what Tim is saying is really TRUTHFUL.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


--------------------------------------------

TRAJAN..............YOU'RE RAMBLING AND INCOHERENT,AGAIN!!! NOW YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE WITH THE GROUPIE REMARK!!!!!!!


Seems to be like pulling a lever,or pushing a button when I mention the "PEP" incident.

Almost everyone on this forum has stated their chosen profession........EXCEPT YOU..........THE EX PEP SALESMAN WHO JUST COMMITTED AN ACT OF MORAL TURPITUDE......AGAIN!!!!!!!!

The only liar.......is you Trajan,not inHaliburton. You have now gone below just Lying at this point...... WAY,WAY BELOW!!!!


Capt. Kirk, Trajan's a bitter person. Can't blame him, though. The Shell/PEP thing did him in. His wiser-than-him wife took off when she found out he's a crooked thief and a loser. Let him wallow in his hatred for Miro, Synlube, you and me. If he hasn't already, he'll have ulcers. Smile

He calls me a liar. Tell me Trajan, when did I tell a lie?

Talking abour liars, where's that engine belonging to a neighbour down the street with the sludged motor from using Synlube? Can you show us a pic?

I think we all know who the liar is, don't we, Trajan?

Well, boy?
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
In a pissing contest, position is everything. Under warranty, the auto maker has position

Trajan, from your dumb posts, I surmize that you face upwind in a strong breeze.



inHaliburton.........In the contest Trajan speaks of, I can only Imagine one position Trajan would be in.........that would be........SEATED,as in a squat position.


It fits, Capt. Kirk. Wink
I'm starting to like Edge, nice info Big Bear. Better cold pumping and taking less time to get to operating temps is a good thing.

AD


US Navy. Helping keep us safe.

AD, I am running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 in my car during the warm weather, but I plan on running Castrol Edge 0W-20 from October until late April since that is when I see the coldest temps in my area. I usually drive the car about 10 to 20 miles and then shut it off for a certain number of hours and then drive back home. My type of driving is not best for an oil like Amsoil, nor is my driving style good for extended drains with Amsoil.

If I lived near the Interstate and drove 50 miles up the Highway and my work was a mile or so off the interstate, and then I drove 50 miles back home, this would be 100 miles each day, so 500 miles a week times 50 weeks and I would have about 25,000 miles a year, so Amsoil would be great in this situation, I am thinking very few people drive there cars like this.

I have heard that about 85% of your wear is during startup or until your engine gets up to operating temps, so if that is the case, and especially during cold weather I want a thinner oil, in the late spring and summer I am not as concerned about the starting temp of the oil because it is probably at a starting temp like 70 degrees or so and it will flow very well.
To me the Edge just makes more sense. It pumps better in a 0w20 than just about any oil I've seen, the 40*C numbers are the best I've seen as well. Since I only drive about 100 miles a week now, I feel it will protect better for my short hopp'in than any 20 grade oil there is. If I thought something was better I'd use it.

If I were driving under the conditions your talking about it would still be a good deal. It pumps better when cold, and gets to its desired viscosity faster, win win in my book.


Hey Bear, did you check out big Al on that link? I can't do it from here for some reason.

AD
How to Submit Requests:

* Send by mail
* Send by fax

Today we must continue to receive requests, dated and with a handwritten signature, either by mail or by fax only. This is because Federal law [5 USC 552a(b)] requires that all requests for records and information be submitted in writing. Each request must be signed and dated.

You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.

* Send by Mail

Our mailing address is:

National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

* Send by Fax

Our fax number for requesting military records is 314-801-9195.
The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.

Order Processing Time

Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.

AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.
EXTENDED OIL CHANGE
INTERVALS

In recent years, many vehicle manufacturers have extended their recommended oil change intervals to reduce maintenance costs for the vehicle owner -- and have run into trouble. The Center for Auto Safety (www.autosafety.org) has logged over a thousand complaints about oil sludging problems from motorists who thought they were following the service intervals recommended in their owners manuals but ended up with a crankcase full of sludge.

Extended oil change intervals of 7,500 or 10,000 miles or more are based on ideal operating conditions, not the type of short trip, stop and go driving that is typical for many motorists. Consequently, most drivers should follow a "severe" service maintenance schedule rather than a "normal" service schedule to protect their engines.

Severe service includes:

* Most trips are less than 4 miles.

* Most trips are less than 10 miles when outside temperatures remain below freezing.

* Prolonged high speed driving during hot weather.

* Idling for extended periods and continued low speed operation (as when driving in stop-and-go traffic).

* Towing a trailer.

* Driving in dusty or heavily polluted areas.

Some engines, such as diesels, suffer more blowby than others and typically require more frequent oil and filter changes. For most passenger car and light truck diesels, the oil should be changed every 3,000 miles without exception -- especially in turbo diesels.

Turbocharged gasoline engines also require more frequent oil changes because of the high temperatures inside the turbo that can oxidize oil. A 3,000 mile oil change interval is also recommended for all turbocharged gasoline engines.

I found this in an article about motor oil's, can anyone here do extended drains.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
How to Submit Requests:

* Send by mail
* Send by fax

Today we must continue to receive requests, dated and with a handwritten signature, either by mail or by fax only. This is because Federal law [5 USC 552a(b)] requires that all requests for records and information be submitted in writing. Each request must be signed and dated.

You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.

* Send by Mail

Our mailing address is:

National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

* Send by Fax

Our fax number for requesting military records is 314-801-9195.
The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.

Order Processing Time

Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.

AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.


Don't waste your time Bear, the man wouldn't be that dumb.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by RobertC:
Personal attacks and innuendo don't help anyone make their case.

I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.

All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
Its probably to late. This has deteriorated into a troll pit. Noria can do better than this.
Re: AMSOIL position on API Licensing
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 1874
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Let me point out something here.. Why other non api oil are not "bashed" as amsoil is, only because they are not using the same marketing tactics. I totally agree with david, the amsoil oil is good , it fits a specialty market, and many have nothing but good results. The issue is warr in this thread.

The claim of warr related issues saying it is against the law to deny warr for use of non api oil, is incorrect as you see by the mos act which they are relying their comments on. This is only what I'm pointing out is how this law and intent was written. That comment . However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty(Like the statement in owners manual requiring api certified oils only) which may result in its being voided. is the catch.

Amsoil might be-able to beat it, but... at what cost to the owner. Amsoil, like any other oil company, can do an analysis, verify the oil didn't do it, and leave it up to you to fight with the manufacture which specifically states to use an api certified oil as a condition of the warr program. Failure to do so, gives them a right to deny warr. It's a contract for warr, you fail to follow the conditions prescribed by the contract and feel you don't have to follow the conditions of that contract, then this can void and be con-screwed as a breach of contract. Why should the manufacture have to adhere to the contract when the consumer doesn't? Most commonly, you wont see this problem or issue of deny warr, but if aftermarket modifications are made, be it bypass filtration or use of a non api certified oil, then this can open the door for litigation, arguments,and the only one to lose would be the one in the middle.

This isn't a matter of bashing amsoil but just taking the spin out and putting realism in on this subject. Being in sales, you have to come up with responses to lower the damage created by the truth sometimes and this is a problem that plagues them and will continue to do so until addressed with the truth.

Should you quit using amsoil, of course not, if your not worried about having to litigate for warr issues. If out of warr, then by all means, use what you like. It's your engine, your choice, and no one can tell you not to.

If you are satisfied with amsoil, which no reason not to be, then I'd strongly encourage you to continue with it as it appears to be a good oil and no reason should you have any problems with such.

Myself, I have not sold any of schaeffers true synth for several reasons, one of which I don't think it is needed in the automotive application and is somewhat an over kill, but a few can benefit from it for extended drain purposes, but the second and most important reason is that I have made very clear that their(schaeffers) full synth 5w30 oil is not api certified. I'm very confident of it's quality and ability to do an excellent job, but I would not ever encourage use of any non api certified oil in a new warr'd engine, and this includes schaeffers full synth.

The main point of this board is to bring in what evidence you have, post it, then from looking at all the evidence, you can make your mind up as to which way you want to proceed. If you want to use of a non api certified oil, do as one stated earlier, just drop it off with the service manager, don't make any mention of the oil you use and let them do their job and most likely it will never become an issue.

Another thing to consider is to talk with the service manager and find out their disposition of the use of a non api oil. If they don't care, then good, but if they do have a problem with it, you then know ahead of time what to expect if they want to blame the oil regardless if it was that or not.

What you'll find when mechanics do blame the oil is when sludge becomes an issue. In one instance for example, glycol causing sludge, or was it really the oil sludging causing the head to overheat, warping the head and leaking glycol into the oil? Point here, which came first and caused the same result? the oil damaging it or the head damaging it? No matter who's pointing the finger at each other, the end result is the same, oil analysis will show glycol in the oil and depending on which end of the stick you're on, mechanic says oil did it first, oil company says head did it first and You're in the middle.

In conclusion, don't consider this as a personal amsoil bashing as it's not. Amsoil does have the xl7500 series oil, and it is highly recommended by myself that you use that api certified oil, at least till you're out of warr, then move up their top of the line oil.

[ January 07, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

Top
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.


No. They don't. If you're using the spec'd fluids under the prescribed intervals, the manufacture has no recourse in a lubrication related failure.

If a lubrication related failure occurs, whether spec'd fluids are use or not, the lubricant has to be the reason for the failure to deny warranty.

I'm sure you can see the difference between what I stated and what you did.
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?

Please lets not hear it never happened in 38 years, or the MM act that's getting old. The flawed filters is proof the company is far from perfect, but then no oil company is.

Please note I'm looking for an answer, not trying to fire Tim up and start another 50 page Amsoil sales pitch thread. You seem to have a level head in your replies.

Thanks
AD
quote:
It isn't the mfg's fault if the owner does as our turbo diesel owner does and the engine gives him the finger.


If you abuse your engine, peak it out at 150% of OEM design spec's, and it grenades ...not their problem.

But let's just take it out of the lubrication issue just so you can see the truth in the matter. It states right in my jeep manual about the installation of non-OEM equipment. Let's say, the installation of a plow and related gear. It essentially says that your electrical system is covered, your plow and related hardware is not. Naturally this mandates a functional state of operation upon installation. The 30amp relay/circuit is designed for 30amp current ..blah..blah..blah.

quote:
If you think the warranty is meaningless, that what the mfg has no clue as to what is best for the motor, go buy a new Mustang and put in SA oil. Or swill lube.


How does that equate to having a perfectly good fluid ...suitable for continued use, in your sump at the time of some unrelated (to oil condition) failure?

You're pulling garbage out of your behind in examples.

Now if you just say that you may be in for a hassle, that's a realistic potential issue

..but the way you depict it in equivalency is downright foolishly disingenuous. A mockery.

It's more the polarized crackbrained "if yur ain wid us, yur agin us" one dimensional argument model. If you're not for water, you want raging fires = type idiocy.

Heal thyself.
Ummm, that turbo diesel truck example is straight from Bitog. Take it up with them.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

The Mustang's owner manual says what it says. It doesn't say use whatever you want and we'll cover your stupidity.

My own manual says use mfg approved oils. It doesn't say use whatever you want and we'll cover your stupidity.

I've seen, first hand, warranty claims denied for owner idiocy.

I'd rather not risk a $50,000 dollar car using non approved stuff during the warranty period, then spend thousands more on lawyers while it winds its way through a court in case of failure.

While the odds are that a failure would not occur, it is my car and my money. I don't want to get into a pissing match between Oil maker XYZ and BMW, for example.

Much easier to tell BMW "I used your oil, your interval, you changed it, and my engine died."

Much easier than telling them I used XYZ, then I get to be the ping pong ball while they paddle me back and forth between them.

Not much point in a warranty if you're not going to follow it, is there. Or in anyone offering one if it can be ignored.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trajan:

______________________________________________
The Mustang's owner manual says what it says. It doesn't say use whatever you want and we'll cover your stupidity.
______________________________________________

The owners manual only makes recommendations,not mandates typically. The owners manual is actually implying you can use whatever you want,others wise the law states the MFG would have to supply free oil.


_______________________________________________
My own manual says use mfg approved oils. It doesn't say use whatever you want and we'll cover your stupidity.
________________________________________________

How would the MFG even know what kind of oil was used unless the car was serviced at the dealer? Motorist have been denied in the past over sludge issues with receipts, and dealer serviced cars......motorists were told they....'abused the car'......


-----------------------------------------------

I own a Jeep with a 4.7 v-8........and the "manual" ..merely... "recommends" 5w-20 oil. I can use whatever oil I want...........and I do use whatever I want..........5w-50 synthetic!


My mustang V-6....."recommends" 5-30 oil.Again,I use whatever I want.

My vw 1.8t.......only recommends a certain oil as well. I use what I want.

I use whatever oil I want,but my choice of oil does exceed all the specs,and is better than the stuff the dealer would install.

I don't need receipts according to the warranty company,they would have to prove the engine failed, because the oil failed the engine. The only way that was done,at least in the past, was by the presence of sludge. Sludge=denied warranty.

There was a case I read on BITOG where only the cam failed in the engine,and nothing else. I believe the MFG at first tried to blame the oil,but the cam was pitted all over,even where there is no friction. The cam had metalurgy issues,so the cam/mfg was at fault,not the oil,and the warranty covered the defect.


Also remember,if your engine fails because of a defect.......there will probably be service bulletins all over the net. Do your homework and research your engine,transmission,etc....even before you have issues. If something is defective and fails you will be standing strong with evidence.

Never back down from a dealer,you can even threaten them with a lawsuit if you have to.

I actually took a dealer known as F.C. Kerbeck to small claims court over repair work they botched but tried to deny. I did my homework and won in court without a lawyer,and the Kerbeck service writer was furious,and could not believe he lost.

The law is always on the consumers side unless you totally and obviously abuse your vehicle and then try to make a bogus claim,such as driving through 4 feet of water and hydrolocking the engine.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?

Thanks
AD


Ford still has to prove that the lube was responsible for the failure. It would be the same with Ford saying 10k miles is NG. Ford themselves spec's all kinds of viscosity fluids for the same engines worldwide and even dealers don't adhere to all of Ford's recommendations for 5w-20 oil.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"

The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.

And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.


You calling me a TROLL? lucky you, wouldn't have the nuggets to say that to my face!

My name is Javier and I live in Miami FL right off 248 st and US1 just look for the AMSOIL signs!

Talking smack with no content is really something a teenager does...

Javier
quote:
Originally posted by Ranchopower:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"

The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.

And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.


You calling me a TROLL? lucky you, wouldn't have the nuggets to say that to my face!

My name is Javier and I live in Miami FL right off 248 st and US1 just look for the AMSOIL signs!

Talking smack with no content is really something a teenager does...

Javier


If you have been reading the posts here, the link was posted first by one captain kirk. Who is a troll.

Never called you a troll son. Insipid jackass who doesn't do any reseach before jumping to a wrong conclusion due to festering ignorance? Yep. But not a troll.

However, if you're the same one who started that thread, I would suggest you read it again to find what the people in that thread think of you.

I'll save you the trouble: https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...=588109934#588109934

If you bother tp read it, you'll see who posted the link, and the plethora of responses I pulled from it.

Deal with it"tough" guy.

ps. I'll do even more work for you: From that very thread.

"I don't get why someone would pay around $ 40,000 for a pickup and then decide oil changes were not necessary"

"Face it you somehow ran the wrong oil"

"I believe the rest of us know what oil to use for our specific application and not try to make a manufacturer pay for our obvious mistakes."

" ...put in an unapproved oil, and ran it way over the manufacturer specified limit, and now expect Ford to pay for your stupidity?"

"The only thing we can go by is what the analysis looks like, and it looks like SM/GF-4 Supertech from Walmart. You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"

"He didn't do his maintenance and now wants us to hold his hand"

"This guys a troll, plain and simple. Nobody is that dense..."

"No, YOU are in breach of contract for going 19,000 miles on the oil. A warranty is a written contract essentially. You didn't fallow the oil change intervals stipulated for warranty purposes. Do a search on "Cathy Covington" here. Lady with a motorhome with a Ford V10 that blew up. You guessed it, she went over the oil change interval and Ford gave here the finger just like they're doing to you."

"You got exactly what you deserved. You want us to provide you some justification for your extreme behavior, yet you repeatedly refuse to give us the most basic information necessary to provide that help. If you believe that “I have the right to put any oil I choose in the vehicle I purchase” (which is blatantly false), then there is absolutely no reason NOT to tell us what oil was involved."

"If you didn’t want to be treated this way, then you should have shown us the same respect and answered our questions."


pps. I never responded in that thread. Until it showed up here, I was not even aware of it. But now it's on my favorites list as a monument to owner stuoidity.

Furthermore "tough" guy. Don't care where you live, what your name is, or if you're an amsoil dealer.

1: Your parents named you, I didn't, so complain to them.

2: You chose to live in Miami, so that's your problem.

3: If and when I ever decide to use Amsoil, there's about 20 dealers much close to me. You lose.
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?



I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO

Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?



I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO





Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.

AD




I read the whole thread and that was the moral of the story. Interesting that this guy would never admit that he was using amsoil. A few posters on the other thread guessed it and he just admitted it here. The navistar diesels that ford has been using are like A curse. No sense at all using the wrong product AND not changing the oil in a defective engine.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

You calling me a TROLL? lucky you, wouldn't have the nuggets to say that to my face!



Talking smack with no content is really something a teenager does...

Javier


If you have been reading the posts here, the link was posted first by one captain kirk. Who is a troll.

Never called you a troll son. Insipid jackass who doesn't do any reseach before jumping to a wrong conclusion due to festering ignorance? Yep. But not a troll.


Deal with it"tough" guy.



Furthermore "tough" guy. Don't care where you live, what your name is, or if you're an amsoil dealer.

1: Your parents named you, I didn't, so complain to them.

2: You chose to live in Miami, so that's your problem.

3: If and when I ever decide to use Amsoil, there's about 20 dealers much close to me. You lose.[/QUOTE]



Talking smack with no content is really something a teenager does...


Trajan...........No Nuggets and talking smack was a spot on description of You..all the way..no doubt about it.............Javier really hit a nerve on that one in big way,and your response proves it.


This link should have your picture(Trajan)right next to it little man, because you are the poster boy of Trolls.......TRAJAN!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?



I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO

Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.

(((( That is not exactly reality,Ad ))))

AD


THIS IS THE FORD DIESEL SAGA TRAJAN IS STUCK ON...............

The warranty booklet calls for SAE VISCOSITY GRADES 0W30/15W40

2 weeks before my truck turbo failed I had to add 2 gallons of coolant, no external leak found.

it is so black and white, fluid meets Ford specs. source of sludge verified coolant contamination.
plus all the pictures I took at the dealer pulling a sample.

No lube manufacture will honor any warranty with 442PPM of sodium in the UOA.

(( Because the engine ruined the oil with coolant )))

I'll dito Johnny. It seems like a good case against Ford, although the OCI was pretty long. The oil company is pretty much off the hook because of the 442 ppm sodium.

explain how oil changes would prevent the sludge build up?
when the oil drains the sludge stays put.
I went and seen the sludge, it aint draining out.
fresh oil with coolant still contaminating the oil will not prevent formation of sludge.


Ok, one morning I hooked up my bobcat with a load of palms and drove out to the gate, noticed the coolant gauge a little higher than normal, checked it and found it low, 2 gallons.
I drove the truck the next day to Ford for them to look and they said "did you fill it with coolant?" I said yes, that was end of conversation.
No help at the dealer here, all about making a buck, No customer service.
I have an attorney on it now time will tell.

warranty covers turbochargers for 5 years 100,000 miles that is all that broke on my truck, I dont have any other damage.
I have two other friends with coolant in the oil UOA verified, also we may look for a class action.

I should feel sorry for him, but we've had so many 6.0 problems (repeated turbo failures on 5K OCI maintained vans, repeated EGR cooler failures)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line (TRAJAN),this particular engine dumped a load of coolant into the Oil,and sludged up and damaged,luckily,.... only the turbo.


What is your point by referencing this particular scenario...........over,and over again. People lose engines with 3k OCI'S. it happens.

------------------------------------------
I never change my oil,but.....I do check under the hood at least weekly,and perform the minimum checks.....

Check dip stick level,oil condition.

Check coolant.

Check Master C.



Look for leaks,smells,etc.


Monthly checks might include Tranny dip stick(I have one)

Check power steering fluid.

Add washer fluid.

Yearly or two years

Change flush brake fluid(every 20K)

Flush power steering fluid(every 30K+)

Flush Transmission(every 30-50k,or when discolored)

Gear lubes/t-case are now synlubed in both cars that apply.
FRom Here:
6.0 PowerStroke bulletins
6.0 Oil Recommendations:
Some trucks with the 6.0 may exhibit hard starting, rough running and lack of power in cold temperatures, particularly on a cold start. This may be due to the oil being to thick for the operating conditions. Ford is recommending to use the following oils for the listed operating temperature.


SAE 15W-40 is the preferred oil above 30 degrees, but it is acceptable for use down to 10 degrees, and is recommended for towing down to this temperature.
SAE 10W-30 is the preferred weight between -10 to 30 degrees.
SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40 is acceptable for use below 30 degrees, and 0W-30 is acceptable below zero.
(All temperatures are in Fahrenheit.)
The oil used should meet Ford's specification of WSS-M2C171-D or API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4/SL or DHD-1. CH-4 is acceptable for use if CI-4 PLUS is not available. TSB #05-16-6.
Keep in mind that CI-4 oil is designed for the increased soot contamination and higher coolant temperatures of cooled EGR systems on a diesel; CH-4 is not.
Nowhere does the TSB mention synthetic versus conventional oil recomendations or ranges.
Ford has not released anything recommending NOT to use a specific brand of oil.
Reply With Quote
30 weight is pretty thin for Florida.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?


Ad said.....
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO


------------------------------------------------------
Well Ad,you should have read the thread before you posted. Amsoil,nor any lube company wouldn't need to "look long and hard" as you say for a way out............the coolant leak says it all.

The massive coolant leak into the oil is the issue,not the oil. The MFG is the one always looking for a way out,in this case ford.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
One of those few times we agree Kirk. In this case the coolant leak is pretty obvious. Take away the coolant leak and the oil company would be looking long and hard for a way out.

AD


Impossible for the oil company to look long and hard if you follow their directions.

If you change the oil using the 'severe service' category,what could they find.

If the engine has issues....thus far historically..........

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ENGINE ISSUES UNRELATED TO THE SYNTHETIC OIL USED,IN THIS CASE...AMSOIL VS FORD.

Even when cheap oil was used that actually was causing sludge build up across almost all makes and models,the mfg's were the ones who got sued/blamed,when it should have been the oil companies that got sued(big oil in this case).

No one ever really gets that except me?

Motorists were basically running garbage for lube,unless they were using 100% synthetic PAO,or something very close.

That is the reason for GM creating a dexos standard,and also the European oil standards that practically mock the API standards.
We almost agree again. I've always followed SS recommendations. Being born and raised in NY everything we owned fell into SS categories. Just ride on the LIE, GCP, or Southern State on a beach day during rush hour and you'll see why. Forget the commute into NYC. The odds of us having an oil related engine failure are slim to none.

My comments are hypothetical, but could become reality. IMO any oil company will look for an out, Amsoil is no exception, and has one other strike against it, the API starburst for their high end products.

My father taught me to follow recommendations, use what the mfg, "suggests", it will keep me out of trouble. Why hassle the MM act? The only one who benefits from that is a lawyer. Risk to reward ratio tells me to follow recommendations. Now if I was making a living selling Amsoil, I'd have a different view. I don't sell it and won't sell it.

BTW the tone of this recent discussion is refreshing!

AD
Thanks for the reply. The truck I serviced was not mine. We used the AMSOIL 5W30 HDD oil and this was a full year before AMSOIL TSB all the DPF engines. At the time of failure there was no recommendation for the 6.4 oil change interval. Like there is now.
I do not own the truck, I told the oner to collect UOA but he did not, the truck failed,he called me after the truck was at the dealer, so I had not to work with when I heard what happened.
I did collect a UOA at the dealer and did find coolant in the oil with caused the jelly sludge with made the turbo fail.
those are the facts, the oil analysis came out good excpt for the coolant contamination.
the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...

Javier
quote:
Originally posted by Ranchopower:

the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...

Javier



Isn't it amazing the attitude of those 'ASE' certified mechanics. Some(not all),think they are 'Gods' once they get certified.

I have had several strong discussions with them including the court case I won,that was sweet!

They just hate it when the consumer actually knows something,even more than the tech on occasion. An educated consumer usually wins,especially if he is mechanical,like me!

I have been told,and read that receipts are not needed,only record keeping regarding oil changes. If something happens they are supposed to prove it was the oils fault anyway,so let them do their "Job",don't do it for them.

My belief is that the consumer does not have to legally reveal the particular oil that was used,the onus is on the dealer to 'prove' something.

You know what they say......you have the right to remain silent,and if you do say something,it better go like this........."would you like to talk to my lawyer"

Why make the dealer's job of 'proving' anything, a..."cake walk". Why hang yourself when you legally don't have to. You have the right to remain silent applies....legally,if you think about it.

If an engine issues come up......don't "brag" to them what brand you used.........it's none of their business.......legally!!! Play dumb,but innocent....your lawyer would even tell you that if you had one.

In theory,and "legally",you could change the oil before you go in for an issue,and even do a MM,etc. "flush",and change oil again I suppose,and then go in for service with clean oil/engine,and who would be the wiser,not to mention, you're not breaking any laws of course.

The dealership/stealership,doesn't need any more 'AMMO' than they already use against the motorist as it is! Don't feed them bullets to shoot you with! Be smart!

I say use whatever brand of oil,and be smart about it.

If anyone is really 'paranoid',then they should go to the 'stealership',and let them change the oil based on 'severe' service,save all receipts until the warranty runs out.

The only issue I see with dealership oil changes now days is that some warranties on the power train go to 100k,and that would be like 30 stealership oil changes,fluid flushes,etc.............NO THANK YOU.........I'LL DO MY OWN,and save a small fortune!

What these dealerships charge now days makes legal counsel seem cheap,if you add it up! I'll take my chances,I have never lost,nor been burned,and I bet I won't ever.


When your fuel injectors clog under warranty,do they ask you what brand of fuel you use? The same applies to the oil,IMO.


In short,my brand of oil is my choice!

How many on this board if they had a CAT,O2 sensor,emission issue,etc.go out under warranty would admit to using certain fuel additives they brag here about, like,MMO,TCW3,ETC,ETC....they would play "dumb like a fox".

In sum........what they(dealer),don't know won't hurt them..........and it certainly won't hurt you! Wink
Trajan said.........

quote:
Do a search on "Cathy Covington" here. Lady with a motorhome with a Ford V10 that blew up. You guessed it, she went over the oil change interval and Ford gave here the finger just like they're doing to you."


Ok...Tajan,here is what I found.....


////"I went to the dealership yesterday. It seems that they have discarded all the oil that cameout of my engine. The service manager said that "it appeared to be preety clean,so we saw no reason to save it" the only oil that was left was in a little plastic container with my name on the top and my oil filter in it. I called my Amsoil rep from the dealership to ask him what to do. He told me to go ahead and get a sample of that oil...its all we got. I asked for the data from a failure analysis and he said he did that visually. I asked for the data from his oil analysis and he said that he saw no reason to do one because he did that visually too. They were very cocky acting and quite sure of themselves. I did take pictures of the crankshaft and the oil pan..which appeared to be pretty clean to me. Honestly, I haven't worked on a car in years. Back in the day, I did most of the work on my '69 Camaro and my '79 Camaro. BTW, we were coming from a motocross race. My daughter has raced motocross for 8 years. We are in our motorhome almost every weekend. My husband and daughter had just returned from a 2 week trip to California, so the RV had been sitting for that 2 weeks, because with the price of gas, they just went in the truck. We had gone to Thayer, Mo the weekend before and were coming from Smithville, AR when this occurred. I still have a problem with the fact that we had no warning. No oil light, service engine soon light, no loss of pressure...nothing. Just quit!

Isn't this a contradiction. Firstly he said it was due to dirty oil, but later said it was pretty clean.

How can he say then that the failure was due to the oil?

The local Ford crook (dealer) said they'd never heard of this before. I pointed out the NHTSA site where I wasn't the only one. They said that they'd never heard of it before. I say NHTSA and they say I'm the first. Round and round we go.

THE.. "NEVER HEARD OF THIS BEFORE",STATEMENT,IS WHAT THEY ALWAYS SAY.......

If you read the thread you will understand that a UOA was done on the oil and the oil was under no means the cause of failure. So what gives Ford the right to deny a warranty claim on this defective motor? Inform me cause I am all ears..

All we asked them to do was PROVE to us that the oil caused the problem. I asked them to put it in writing...they refused. the dealership refused...the Ford Customer Rep refused and the Ford engineer refused.

his thread cracks me up. Not finding humor in Cathy's problem but all the crap house lawyering. I have owned new Chrysler, Ford, GM, Nissan, Toyota vehicles. All had their faults in some way and all the Dealers doing the same tap dance to get out of things. Ford is not exclusive in how they are dealing with this "///////

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=553007&page=1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like ford is playing Dirty to me! The oil and the engine was clean.......

More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.


If I were Kathy,I would have drawn an oil sample first,and never have told ford the exact OCI. She did get off the hook 80% though in the end.
quote:
More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.



Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.

Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.



Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.

Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?

AD


If a motorist is using basic mineral oil//5w-20,like above....I will say.....change it every 3k,at the dealer with a coupon,and save the receipts.........because you might just need them using cheap bulk oil.

The above repair was 10k,of which Kathy paid as far as we know....2k.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×