A Ford dealership here in Ontario will install Amsoil engine oil in their "Fast Lane" facility.
I haven't yet inquired as to oil change intervals.
Does anyone know?
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AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals. Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.
If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.
No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
Which dealerships only recommend the API Certified XL oils and to follow the mfg OCI? Here is a quote from GM: “The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals.
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
Why? AMSOIL has made these recommendations for 38 years without a problemquote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.
Is this opinion or fact? If fact, please post your reference. AMSOIL says you can begin AMSOIL and extended oil changes immediately. This is what the Texas State Police do. No problems.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.
The AMSOIL EaO oil filter traps more and smaller particles than other filters. Do you have a reference that those break in materials will not be trapped by the filter or cause a problem?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf
Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
Even Pennzoil Platinum made the list, does GM know something about Amsoil not being good for there engines, maybe they see something wrong with Amsoil and they certainly do not need anymore bad publicity or uneccessary recalls because it seems like Amsoil does not meet there standards for some reason.
I hope you are not going to come back with your Amsoil Warranty about motor oil's and them having to prove that Amsoil caused a problem.
Maybe Amsoil motor oil's are just outdated for today's GM Engines and do not offer the right protection.
I know, Amsoil doesn't want to pay for the certification, they'd rather reinvest the money in R&D, LOL. Odd considering how many GM products are on the road.
_________________________
Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
Even Pennzoil Platinum made the list, does GM know something about Amsoil not being good for there engines, maybe they see something wrong with Amsoil and they certainly do not need anymore bad publicity or uneccessary recalls because it seems like Amsoil does not meet there standards for some reason.
I hope you are not going to come back with your Amsoil Warranty about motor oil's and them having to prove that Amsoil caused a problem.
Maybe Amsoil motor oil's are just outdated for today's GM Engines and do not offer the right protection.
I know, Amsoil doesn't want to pay for the certification, they'd rather reinvest the money in R&D, LOL. Odd considering how many GM products are on the road.
_________________________
AMSOIL doesn't believe in paying GM and others money and putting the time in to get on 100's of manufacturers lists. No manufacture requires an oil to be on the list in order to keep warranties intact. If GM required an oil on their list to be used, GM would have to provide it for free. Money and time wasted. But AMSOIL offers oils that meet GM's specs, and never had a warranty issue.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf
Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf
Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
Even Pennzoil Platinum made the list, does GM know something about Amsoil not being good for there engines, maybe they see something wrong with Amsoil and they certainly do not need anymore bad publicity or uneccessary recalls because it seems like Amsoil does not meet there standards for some reason.
I hope you are not going to come back with your Amsoil Warranty about motor oil's and them having to prove that Amsoil caused a problem.
Maybe Amsoil motor oil's are just outdated for today's GM Engines and do not offer the right protection.
I know, Amsoil doesn't want to pay for the certification, they'd rather reinvest the money in R&D, LOL. Odd considering how many GM products are on the road.
_________________________
Better Amsoil than Swindle....er synlube. Even the OP, who attacked anyone who dared to question that crud, agrees.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:AMSOIL doesn't believe in paying GM and others money and putting the time in to get on 100's of manufacturers lists. No manufacture requires an oil to be on the list in order to keep warranties intact. If GM required an oil on their list to be used, GM would have to provide it for free. Money and time wasted. But AMSOIL offers oils that meet GM's specs, and never had a warranty issue.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf
Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
The list of approved oils is a list of oils that meet all the specs. Nothing more or less.
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!
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You could also add that there are other oils that also meet the specs and list them on their labels, but have decided not to pay GM or spend the time to get on their list.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The list of approved oils is a list of oils that meet all the specs. Nothing more or less.
Here is what GM says about motor oil:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
Maybe. API has tested oils off the shelf that was API Certified, yet did not meet API spec. Valvoline and Castrol tested Mobil 1 5w30 off the shelf and it did not meet the API spec. Mobil 1 5w30 is on the GM approved list. Since it did not meet the API minimum spec, how could it meet the GM spec?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!
AD
Again, here is what GM has to say about oil and warranty:
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
Personally, I'd rather us a better oil than one that barely meets API and the GM spec. So that is what I do.
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1
I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"
The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.
And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.
I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"
The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.
And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1
I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"
The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.
And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.
Interesting thread. No proof it ever happened. If it did, he did a lot of things wrong:
1. It seems he didn't get a letter from Ford Motor Company stating why his engine or the oil failed and that his warranty claim is denied.
2. He refused to name the oil he used.
3. He never got an analysis to prove coolant was in the oil.
4. He never contacted the oil company for assistance.
5. He likely used a wrong oil. And he did not follow the oil company's warranty requirements.
6. No oil company recommends an extended oil change interval for his truck due to known fuel dilution problems with this engine design.
7. He never got a UOA when he met Ford's recommended oil change interval.
Ford and AMSOIL list these oil recommendations for his truck:
2008 FORD TRUCKS F450 PICKUP 6.4L 8-cyl Engine Code [R] Turbo Diesel
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
AMSOIL published Technical Service Bulletin MO-2009-10-01
"identifying" high fuel dilution in 2007-2010 light duty
diesel pickups (Dodge 6.7L, Ford 6.4L, and GM/GMC 6.6L LMM)
equipped with diesel particulate filters. Amsoil has revised
the drain interval recommendation for these specific
applications to the longest manufacturer-recommended
interval. Oil drain intervals can be extended further with
oil analysis.
Engine Oil
Grade 1......CJ-4
Synthetic 5W-40 Premium Diesel Oil (DEOQT)
Synthetic 15W-40 Diesel Oil (DMEQT)
32 to 122F......10W-30
Above -4F......5W-40
Above 68F......15W-40
Below 122F......0W-40, 0W-30
If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.
quote:
If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.
Agreed if a coolant leak was at fault Ford would pay, how could someone blame the oil?
Now if his Amsoil dealer sold him an extended drain oil and neglected to inform him about problems with his engine and extending drain intervals what happens? Amsoil won't pay, Ford won't pay, does he visit a court house with the rep for giving bad advise if the oil did in fact cause the failure? Lots of bad info is exchanged by misinformed or over eager sales people! It happens everyday.
AD
Worth looking at, here is a man that is well informed: Worth a paste: When two companies lock horns the end result is the customer is without a vehicle. Get a lawyer involved be prepared to pay.
It is always best to stick with the mfg suggested oils and change oil when the mfg suggests changing oil. They designed the engine.
Pasted from the link.
Gosh - here's a real life example of what I've often touted about the misconceptions of the M/M Warranty act. In a nutshell, I can summize.
If you use the prescribed fluids in the prescribed manner, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM to show that your actions somehow caused the failure of the product in question. If you have good, solid evidence to show that you followed warranty parameters, then most OEMs won't even argue with you. If you use alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance, then the burden of proof is upon you to show that your selections did not cause the failure. It's that simple on the surface; use their specs and they have to show it's not their fault - use your stuff and it's up to you to show it's not your fault.
-----------------------------------------
After reading this who needs the hassle if there is a problem?
Keep life simple take the path of least resistance.
AD
It is always best to stick with the mfg suggested oils and change oil when the mfg suggests changing oil. They designed the engine.
Pasted from the link.
Gosh - here's a real life example of what I've often touted about the misconceptions of the M/M Warranty act. In a nutshell, I can summize.
If you use the prescribed fluids in the prescribed manner, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM to show that your actions somehow caused the failure of the product in question. If you have good, solid evidence to show that you followed warranty parameters, then most OEMs won't even argue with you. If you use alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance, then the burden of proof is upon you to show that your selections did not cause the failure. It's that simple on the surface; use their specs and they have to show it's not their fault - use your stuff and it's up to you to show it's not your fault.
-----------------------------------------
After reading this who needs the hassle if there is a problem?
Keep life simple take the path of least resistance.
AD
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I will try to find out.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:
If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.
Agreed if a coolant leak was at fault Ford would pay, how could someone blame the oil?
Now if his Amsoil dealer sold him an extended drain oil and neglected to inform him about problems with his engine and extending drain intervals what happens? Amsoil won't pay, Ford won't pay, does he visit a court house with the rep for giving bad advise if the oil did in fact cause the failure? Lots of bad info is exchanged by misinformed or over eager sales people! It happens everyday.
AD
1. AMSOIL might pay anyway if there was no coolant leak. They do pay out on good will every once in a while. It is good publicity.
2. I think if it went to court, it would be a difficult case to win. He would have to prove the Dealer said he could go 19,000 miles on the oil change for his vehicle.
3. The AMSOIL website clearly shows not to extend the oil change on his vehicle without a UOA due to known fuel dilution problems in his engine.
4. I think the bottle says something to that effect also.
5. The dealer would have no control on the oil change or use of the truck.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Gosh - here's a real life example of what I've often touted about the misconceptions of the M/M Warranty act. In a nutshell, I can summize.
If you use the prescribed fluids in the prescribed manner, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM to show that your actions somehow caused the failure of the product in question. If you have good, solid evidence to show that you followed warranty parameters, then most OEMs won't even argue with you. If you use alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance, then the burden of proof is upon you to show that your selections did not cause the failure. It's that simple on the surface; use their specs and they have to show it's not their fault - use your stuff and it's up to you to show it's not your fault.
-----------------------------------------
AD
You are right. That statement is a misconception of the M/M Warranty Act. Even if you use "alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance" the burden of proof is still upon the manufacturer that your selections caused the failure. They can easily prove it with oil and parts analysis.
Again GM says:
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
Warrantys protect the owner from mfg faults. They also protect the mfg from owner stupidity.
It isn't the owner's fault if he follows the mfg dictates on oil type, viscosity, and oci, and his engine gives him the finger
It isn't the mfg's fault if the owner does as our turbo diesel owner does and the engine gives him the finger.
If you think the warranty is meaningless, that what the mfg has no clue as to what is best for the motor, go buy a new Mustang and put in SA oil. Or swill lube.
And see who has the last laugh.
It isn't the owner's fault if he follows the mfg dictates on oil type, viscosity, and oci, and his engine gives him the finger
It isn't the mfg's fault if the owner does as our turbo diesel owner does and the engine gives him the finger.
If you think the warranty is meaningless, that what the mfg has no clue as to what is best for the motor, go buy a new Mustang and put in SA oil. Or swill lube.
And see who has the last laugh.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Warrantys protect the owner from mfg faults. They also protect the mfg from owner stupidity.
It isn't the owner's fault if he follows the mfg dictates on oil type, viscosity, and oci, and his engine gives him the finger
It isn't the mfg's fault if the owner does as our turbo diesel owner does and the engine gives him the finger.
If you think the warranty is meaningless, that what the mfg has no clue as to what is best for the motor, go buy a new Mustang and put in SA oil. Or swill lube.
And see who has the last laugh.
If the vehicle manufacturer proves the SA oil or swill lube failed or even an "approved" or "Certified oil failed even under "recommended" oil change intervals, then it falls back to the owner or the manufacturer of the oil. If they don't fail, then it goes back to the vehicle manufacturer to cover manufacturer defects if it is under warranty.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I sent of a post to Anthony Polito of Polito Ford in Lindsay, Ontario. He's going to get back to me with info.
I have a feeling that Ford is not as generous as GM re OCIs.
My Manual sez 6 months or 8 000 kms. That's it.
If that's the case, XL, or next highest on the list is the oil of choice for me. If they stock it and the price differential is 1 or 2 bucks.
I'll let you know when I know.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
It all depends on what went wrong with the engine. If it was a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If Ford Motor Company writes that AMSOIL oil failed (which they have to prove), then contact AMSOIL technical who will begin their own investigation at no cost to you. Generally, it only takes a few phone calls to determine what the problem is, and maybe an independent oil and parts analysis which might take a few days. If there is doubt, AMSOIL will authorize repairs, and if their analysis shows the oil did not fail, they will seek reimbursement from Ford. It should only take a few days longer than regular repairs. I have never heard of it going to court. Usually the outcome of the 3rd party oil and part analysis is very clear what caused the failure, thus which company is responsible. You can rent another Mustang in the meantime which should be covered by either company's warranty.
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
From my understanding, you can purchase the Ford ESP after you purchase your car, you can purchase the Ford ESP right up until your 3 year 36 month warranty expires.
Do not get talked into anyone from Ford on buying any other extended warranty policy, the Ford ESP is the best, and all of the others are worthless, these other 3rd party warranties make you leave the car at the dealer and it can take weeks for a represenative to come out, with the Ford ESP, the service advisor just makes a quick call.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
It all depends on what went wrong with the engine. If it was a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If Ford Motor Company writes that AMSOIL oil failed (which they have to prove), then contact AMSOIL technical who will begin their own investigation at no cost to you. Generally, it only takes a few phone calls to determine what the problem is, and an independent oil and parts analysis which might take a few days. If there is doubt, AMSOIL will authorize repairs, and if their analysis shows the oil did not fail, they will seek reimbursement from Ford. It should only take a few days longer than regular repairs. You can rent another Mustang in the meantime which should be covered by either company's warranty.
It all comes down to the end user. The OEM will pass it off to the Oil company, who passes it off to the end user. The end user will have to PROVE they did everything just right. That of course includes documentation. As far as the bigger engines go, if you are doing extended drains, you'd better being doing regular oil analysis over the drain interval.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
It all depends on what went wrong with the engine. If it was a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If Ford Motor Company writes that AMSOIL oil failed (which they have to prove), then contact AMSOIL technical who will begin their own investigation at no cost to you. Generally, it only takes a few phone calls to determine what the problem is, and maybe an independent oil and parts analysis which might take a few days. If there is doubt, AMSOIL will authorize repairs, and if their analysis shows the oil did not fail, they will seek reimbursement from Ford. It should only take a few days longer than regular repairs. I have never heard of it going to court. Usually the outcome of the 3rd party oil and part analysis is very clear what caused the failure, thus which company is responsible. You can rent another Mustang in the meantime which should be covered by either company's warranty.
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
Better yet, why don't you email AMSOIL technical with your warranty question, so you can get their answer back in writing. They are the one responsible for the warranty, not an AMSOIL Dealer. Then you can paste their answer here.
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL warranty: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL claim procedure: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g40.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Lots of the use of the words "it depends", it does depend. Sometimes it depends upon a lawyer, or a regional manger, and how good a fighter you are. All the while the car sits useless.
As far as Amsoil sometimes paying out as "Goodwill" they'll put a limit on how good their Goodwill is! If it is big Bucks, it will be handed right on over the their legal dept.
MFG suggested approved oils, and their suggested intervals are your best bet till the warranty runs out.
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As far as Amsoil sometimes paying out as "Goodwill" they'll put a limit on how good their Goodwill is! If it is big Bucks, it will be handed right on over the their legal dept.
MFG suggested approved oils, and their suggested intervals are your best bet till the warranty runs out.
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I haven't seen that with AMSOIL. If you have, please post.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lots of the use of the words "it depends", it does depend. Sometimes it depends upon a lawyer, or a regional manger, and how good a fighter you are. All the while the car sits useless.
I don't see where AMSOIL has any warranty complaints with any consumer, consumer organization, or government agency. If you do, please post.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:As far as Amsoil sometimes paying out as "Goodwill" they'll put a limit on how good their Goodwill is! If it is big Bucks, it will be handed right on over the their legal dept.
Unless the MFG suggested approved oils and suggested intervals fail, as has been the case with Toyota, VW, Audi, Chrysler, and Saab, Dodge, Jeep, Lexus, who had to revise their oil recommendations, change intervals and caused the customers to pay out of pocket and lengthen their warranty coverage. Then it could fall back to the oil company. That is why I like to use a better oil than their recommended approved oils that barely meet their spec, and a company with an outstanding warranty, should their products ever fail.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:MFG suggested approved oils, and their suggested intervals are your best bet till the warranty runs out.
1: Do you like having to make payments on a car sitting on a lot while the game of "They said/They said" goes through the courts?
2: Do you want to be the walnut between the jaws of an oil maker and a car maker?
3: Do you really want to go on public record telling the world why you're too stupid to follow the mfg warranty?
Or would you rather just follow the contract you agreed to by buying the car in the first place, and avoid all the above?
2: Do you want to be the walnut between the jaws of an oil maker and a car maker?
3: Do you really want to go on public record telling the world why you're too stupid to follow the mfg warranty?
Or would you rather just follow the contract you agreed to by buying the car in the first place, and avoid all the above?
Do you know of such a case with AMSOIL? Please post.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
1: Do you like having to make payments on a car sitting on a lot while the game of "They said/They said" goes through the courts?
Do you know of such a case with AMSOIL? Please post.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:2: Do you want to be the walnut between the jaws of an oil maker and a car maker?
Do you know of such a case with AMSOIL? Please post.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:3: Do you really want to go on public record telling the world why you're too stupid to follow the mfg warranty?
Again, this is what GM says:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:3:Or would you rather just follow the contract you agreed to by buying the car in the first place, and avoid all the above?
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
And again, Unless the MFG suggested approved oils and suggested intervals fail, as has been the case with Toyota, VW, Audi, Chrysler, and Saab, Dodge, Jeep, Lexus, who had to revise their oil recommendations, change intervals and caused the customers to pay out of pocket and lengthen their warranty coverage. Then it could fall back to the oil company. That is why I like to use a better oil than their recommended approved oils that barely meet their spec, and a company with an outstanding warranty, should their products ever fail.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
1: Do you like having to make payments on a car sitting on a lot while the game of "They said/They said" goes through the courts?
YES or you will destroy your credit, and run the risk of a repo.
quote:2: Do you want to be the walnut between the jaws of an oil maker and a car maker?
Nope, but you will!
quote:3: Do you really want to go on public record telling the world why you're too stupid to follow the mfg warranty?
No
quote:Or would you rather just follow the contract you agreed to by buying the car in the first place, and avoid all the above?
Yep. Actually quite simple Trajan, some people just like to complicate things.
Remember many times when a company pays a settlement for a claim both parties sign papers that they won't disclose terms of the settlement. That helps maintain a company's reputation, that agreement is legally binding too, it is part of the settlement. So finding something on the internet would be tough. Service writers and my machine shop buddy told me of customer woes not using approved oil, and not following the mfg recommended OCI's. A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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What were the problems?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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So one quote from a Honda service writer about one transmission outweighs dozens of testimonials on BITOG? I've looked in and posted 5 threads so far and haven't found any AMSOIL ATF issues yet. They all said the AMSOIL ATF was better than the Honda Z1. Please post the issues about people having issues with the AMSOIL ATF. Several mentioned they got the idea to switch from the Honda Z1 to AMSOIL from the rave reviews AMSOIL got in Honda forums.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Junk? What junk? I was trained as a chemist and research scientist. I don't know how the other AMSOIL rep was trained. We probably read similar AMSOIL and competitor technical information, motor oil publications, tribology books and testing.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
They both state their case. But the tie breaker is all the Honda customer posts that used both and prefer AMSOIL over the Honda Z1.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
I also can not find the Honda Z-1 Product Data Sheets that list product specifications, yet AMSOIL's is easily found. You have to wonder if it is because they don't want consumers to compare specifications and test results.
So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Why did he tell you that? Which vehicle tranny/rear end was this for? What mfg approved juice did you use?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
quote:Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
Tim, you seem to operate under the assumption that its all about basestock. Honda may utilize the stated base oil due to their inherent ability to better handle and additive package. Perhaps Honda has identified a specific friction modifier that wouldn't stay supspended in 100% synthetic basestock.
quote:So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Maybe Amsoil needs a higher flashpoint to compensate for missing friction modifier. Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
John, I listed them previously. Here the are again:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .
And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
The proof is in the pudding.
Much as I don't really want to take sides, as I have nothing against Amsoil.....
It's to me, really starting to sound like Amsoil thinks it knows better than those who design and build engines. And have been doing it for far longer than Amsoil has even exsisted.
And that just isn't so. Swill...er synlube acts the same way.
See, this is why I won't use non approved oils. Any oil can claim anything they want. But unless they submit to the auto maker's testing and prove it, that's all it is. A claim.
When it comes to my car, I am the court that you appear before. And the court is not interested in what you think/know/claim, but what you can prove.
And unless you are on the mfg approval list, then you haven't proved anything, and your case is dismissed.
It's to me, really starting to sound like Amsoil thinks it knows better than those who design and build engines. And have been doing it for far longer than Amsoil has even exsisted.
And that just isn't so. Swill...er synlube acts the same way.
See, this is why I won't use non approved oils. Any oil can claim anything they want. But unless they submit to the auto maker's testing and prove it, that's all it is. A claim.
When it comes to my car, I am the court that you appear before. And the court is not interested in what you think/know/claim, but what you can prove.
And unless you are on the mfg approval list, then you haven't proved anything, and your case is dismissed.
If the manufacture requires you to be on their "approved" list, then I would agree with you. But they don't.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Much as I don't really want to take sides, as I have nothing against Amsoil.....
It's to me, really starting to sound like Amsoil thinks it knows better than those who design and build engines. And have been doing it for far longer than Amsoil has even exsisted.
And that just isn't so. Swill...er synlube acts the same way.
See, this is why I won't use non approved oils. Any oil can claim anything they want. But unless they submit to the auto maker's testing and prove it, that's all it is. A claim.
When it comes to my car, I am the court that you appear before. And the court is not interested in what you think/know/claim, but what you can prove.
And unless you are on the mfg approval list, then you haven't proved anything, and your case is dismissed.
Mobil 1 5w30 is on many manufacturers "approved" lists, but was shown by Valvoline and Ashland that it didn't even pass basic API tests for engine wear. No thanks.
There are motor oils that are API certified, that didn't pass API certification tests when API tested them off the shelf. No thanks.
I'd rather use something that has been proven to be much better by undisputed independent ASTM testing and backed by a much better warranty for much longer oil change intervals. More time and money saved, and better for the environment.
So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
Lets say I do not want to do these UOA's and I have a problem at 19,000 miles, some lubricated part in the engine goes bad, I call Amsoil up, they want me to send in a sample of the oil, they contact me after doing an Oil Analysis and say sorry we cannot help you because your TBN was 0.0 they go onto say that you should have been doing UOA's every 5000 miles and you fall under severe service and this oil should have been changed sooner. If Amsoil comes out to investigate and they find anything that is not right, they will say sorry, if you refuse to cooperate, then they will not honor the warranty.
So, I am using a 25,000 mile or one year oil and I have to get under the car every 5000 miles to pull an oil sample, heck if I am under the car taking a sample I might as well change the oil. You better believe even if you do get UOA's done and you have a problem, Amsoil will look for anything that will get them out of paying up. Suppose Amsoil does pay up becuase it is there motor oil's fault, they could turn around and say look we are not going to warranty our oil for one year, use the XL Line instead, I do not think Amsoil is going to take the chance of having to replace another engine or get it fixed, they may do this once or twice, but not three times.
Then we need to look at the true cost of running Amsoil for one year versus using Pennzoil YB at 5000 mile OCI's, and we can throw in Pennzoil Platinum too.
The 2010 Mustang GT takes 6 quarts of oil, but we will need to purchase 2 more quarts of oil for makeup oil and whatever we loose doing a UOA.
8 quarts of Amsoil 0W-30 equals $62.96
1 Oil Filter equals $12.97
PC Fee for a year equals $20.00
Shipping equals $9.85
We are up to $105.78, and yes you need those 2 extra quarts or at least one quart because if you add any other brand of motor oil to the Amsoil motor oil and a problem arises the warranty will be void.
We need to do a UOA every 5000 miles, so 5 UOA's in 25,000 miles.
Blackstone UOA is about $22.50 and add $10.00 for a TBN Test
So $32.50 times 5 UOA's equals $162.50 and add that to the $105.78 and you get $268.28
We need 6 quarts of either PYB or PP, so times 5 oil changes that is 30 quarts of oil, we are going to buy 6 five quart jugs of PP or PYB and on each OCI we will use a 5 quart jug and pour another quart out of the other 5 quart jug.
Pennzoil Platinum is $21.73 a jug with tax, times 6 five quart jugs equals $130.38
PYB is $13.25 a jug with tax, times 6 five quart jugs equals $79.50
We also need 5 Motorcraft Oil Filters, so $3.67 times 5 equals $18.35
Pennzoil Platinum with the oil filters comes to $148.73
PYB with the oil filters comes to $97.85
Amsoil motor oil with an oil filter and the other hidden costs comes to $105.78, take a quart off if you don't want to buy 2 quarts and you are at $97.91
If you want to skimp on those UOA's, guess what, you are up the creek with Amsoil, you need documentation to prove your case with Amsoil.
Lets say I do not want to do these UOA's and I have a problem at 19,000 miles, some lubricated part in the engine goes bad, I call Amsoil up, they want me to send in a sample of the oil, they contact me after doing an Oil Analysis and say sorry we cannot help you because your TBN was 0.0 they go onto say that you should have been doing UOA's every 5000 miles and you fall under severe service and this oil should have been changed sooner. If Amsoil comes out to investigate and they find anything that is not right, they will say sorry, if you refuse to cooperate, then they will not honor the warranty.
So, I am using a 25,000 mile or one year oil and I have to get under the car every 5000 miles to pull an oil sample, heck if I am under the car taking a sample I might as well change the oil. You better believe even if you do get UOA's done and you have a problem, Amsoil will look for anything that will get them out of paying up. Suppose Amsoil does pay up becuase it is there motor oil's fault, they could turn around and say look we are not going to warranty our oil for one year, use the XL Line instead, I do not think Amsoil is going to take the chance of having to replace another engine or get it fixed, they may do this once or twice, but not three times.
Then we need to look at the true cost of running Amsoil for one year versus using Pennzoil YB at 5000 mile OCI's, and we can throw in Pennzoil Platinum too.
The 2010 Mustang GT takes 6 quarts of oil, but we will need to purchase 2 more quarts of oil for makeup oil and whatever we loose doing a UOA.
8 quarts of Amsoil 0W-30 equals $62.96
1 Oil Filter equals $12.97
PC Fee for a year equals $20.00
Shipping equals $9.85
We are up to $105.78, and yes you need those 2 extra quarts or at least one quart because if you add any other brand of motor oil to the Amsoil motor oil and a problem arises the warranty will be void.
We need to do a UOA every 5000 miles, so 5 UOA's in 25,000 miles.
Blackstone UOA is about $22.50 and add $10.00 for a TBN Test
So $32.50 times 5 UOA's equals $162.50 and add that to the $105.78 and you get $268.28
We need 6 quarts of either PYB or PP, so times 5 oil changes that is 30 quarts of oil, we are going to buy 6 five quart jugs of PP or PYB and on each OCI we will use a 5 quart jug and pour another quart out of the other 5 quart jug.
Pennzoil Platinum is $21.73 a jug with tax, times 6 five quart jugs equals $130.38
PYB is $13.25 a jug with tax, times 6 five quart jugs equals $79.50
We also need 5 Motorcraft Oil Filters, so $3.67 times 5 equals $18.35
Pennzoil Platinum with the oil filters comes to $148.73
PYB with the oil filters comes to $97.85
Amsoil motor oil with an oil filter and the other hidden costs comes to $105.78, take a quart off if you don't want to buy 2 quarts and you are at $97.91
If you want to skimp on those UOA's, guess what, you are up the creek with Amsoil, you need documentation to prove your case with Amsoil.
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
Agreed. AFAIK, as long as you follow the car mfg OCI you don't need a UOA or anything special. Just proof that you bought a mfg approved spec'd oil and the proper filter. Simple just follow directions, and enjoy your wheels.
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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Back in the Model T days that was probably true
I think that is poor advice. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals. Why pay for a bunch of UOA's when AMSOIL has never caused part failure in 38 years?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
Wrong again. If the part fails due to a manufacturing defect, the vehicle manufacturer pays. If the part fails due to AMSOIL (never happened in 38 years) then AMSOIL pays.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Lets say I do not want to do these UOA's and I have a problem at 19,000 miles, some lubricated part in the engine goes bad, I call Amsoil up, they want me to send in a sample of the oil, they contact me after doing an Oil Analysis and say sorry we cannot help you because your TBN was 0.0 they go onto say that you should have been doing UOA's every 5000 miles and you fall under severe service and this oil should have been changed sooner. If Amsoil comes out to investigate and they find anything that is not right, they will say sorry, if you refuse to cooperate, then they will not honor the warranty.
Wrong. AMSOIL does not require UOA's if you follow their oil recommendations. The only time they require UOAs are if you take the oil past the interval they recommend.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: So, I am using a 25,000 mile or one year oil and I have to get under the car every 5000 miles to pull an oil sample, heck if I am under the car taking a sample I might as well change the oil. You better believe even if you do get UOA's done and you have a problem, Amsoil will look for anything that will get them out of paying up. Suppose Amsoil does pay up becuase it is there motor oil's fault, they could turn around and say look we are not going to warranty our oil for one year, use the XL Line instead, I do not think Amsoil is going to take the chance of having to replace another engine or get it fixed, they may do this once or twice, but not three times.
AMSOIL has already done this for you at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1971.pdf?zo=1181889 . AMSOIL cost was $44.50 for 25,000 miles, Pennzoil Platinum was $162.25 for 25,000 miles. This is why 3500 Texas State Police have used AMSOIL for the past 10 years, as has 15,000 other government agencies. It saves them time and money and better for the environment.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Then we need to look at the true cost of running Amsoil for one year versus using Pennzoil YB at 5000 mile OCI's, and we can throw in Pennzoil Platinum too.
Again, those UOA's are not required. You will not find that recommendation at www.amsoil.com or anywhere else. The only time you need to run a UOA is if you want to exceed AMSOIL's oil change recommendations. Some people never change their AMSOIL, they just run UOA's when recommended by AMSOIL to verify the oil and engine are fine. Sounds like you need to find a more knowledgeable dealer. You can also contact AMSOIL tech service to verify. AMSOIL extended changes are indeed the easiest thing to do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: If you want to skimp on those UOA's, guess what, you are up the creek with Amsoil, you need documentation to prove your case with Amsoil.
Here is what GM says, and Ford will say the same:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
This is what GM says:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
Keep in mind, you say "Amsoil pays". They don't pay their insurance company pays, we all know how insurance companies pay.
AMSOIL is just saying they are not responsible for the previously used lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals before AMSOIL, should those be found to cause the failure. After the installation of AMSOIL's products, you are warranted by AMSOIL's service recommendations.
Again previously used lubricants is the way out for the insurance company. Hire the right people to make the determination of what failed and you can get them to say anything you want. Again, have a problem hire a lawyer. Use something the automaker endorses, make life easier in the event of a problem.
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Please show where AMSOIL was the cause of a failure in 38 years. Please show where any consumer or government agency has any issues with AMSOIL's warranty. They wouldn't be in business for 38 years if their products did not perform as advertised. Please show where any AMSOIL customer had to hire a lawyer. If the automaker endorses an oil that failed, how does that make life easier? The automaker warrants against defective parts, not defective oil.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
Keep in mind, you say "Amsoil pays". They don't pay their insurance company pays, we all know how insurance companies pay.
AMSOIL is just saying they are not responsible for the previously used lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals before AMSOIL, should those be found to cause the failure. After the installation of AMSOIL's products, you are warranted by AMSOIL's service recommendations.
Again previously used lubricants is the way out for the insurance company. Hire the right people to make the determination of what failed and you can get them to say anything you want. Again, have a problem hire a lawyer. Use something the automaker endorses, make life easier in the event of a problem.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1: Keep in mind, you say "Amsoil pays". They don't pay their insurance company pays, we all know how insurance companies pay.
AMSOIL is just saying they are not responsible for the previously used lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals before AMSOIL, should those be found to cause the failure. After the installation of AMSOIL's products, you are warranted by AMSOIL's service recommendations.
Again previously used lubricants is the way out for the insurance company. Hire the right people to make the determination of what failed and you can get them to say anything you want. Again, have a problem hire a lawyer. Use something the automaker endorses, make life easier in the event of a problem.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.
With regards to the mileage warranty, I was refering to the oil.
As for the UOAs. It appeared that you were recommending that money shouldn't be wasted on UOAs when going past OEM recommended service intervals. I am glad to see Amsoil recommends oil analysis for fleets and larger engines.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
I went ahead and called up the Amsoil Tech Line this morning and I got some different information than what you stated above.
The Tech Guy told me that if the Lubricant failed, Amsoil will investigate as to why the lubricated part failed. I asked him how long this process could take, he said it could take a couple of months, I then said is there a possibility this could drag out longer, like 6 months to a year, and he said YES.
So, In this scenario, I can have Ford saying my part went bad becuase of my extended OCI, and then Amsoil will be saying it was not the lubricants fault, but a problem with the part that failed, if Amsoil and Ford are going back and forth this could easily drag on for more than a year. So my car that I am making payments on is just sitting, and I am supposed to drive a rental car around until this is taken care of, who is going to pay for the rental car, me, so I pickup a cheap rental for $16.00 a day, that comes out to $480.00 a month.
Lets say it takes 6 months to clear everything up, $480.00 a month times 6 equals $2880.00
So when Amsoil and Ford are battling this out, who is the loser, its me, since I have to wait many months or longer, and if a rental car is too expensive since I realize I could be spending thousands of dollars on a rental car while I am still making my car payments, I may decide that I have to go out and buy a used car, and you can bet with my experience with extended drains that I will not be doing them on the used car I purchased while I wait for this whole thing to play out.
You are right in that you do not have to do a UOA every 5000 miles, but the Amsoil Tech Guy said this would be good if a problem arises, my Amsoil rep gave me good advice about doing a UOA every 5000 miles since he is looking after my best interests.
The Amsoil Tech Guy said if you are really worried about a problem arising when you are still under warranty with the manufacture that it would be best to use the Amsoil XL Line of Oil's.
He also told me if you read something strange on some internet forum that some Amsoil Salesman posted and you have doubts, just call us on the Tech Line.
Tim tells us this whole process could only take a few days, and the Amsoil Tech Guy tells me it can take a couple of months or more, I think he was being conservative in his estimate of how long the process would take to get resolved, playing " Devil's Advocate" this process could take 2 to 3 years to get resolved.
This whole Extended Warranty Thing is getting real complicated and it seems an Amsoil Dealer and the Amsoil Tech Guy are not on the same page as to how long it will take for a warranty issue to get resolved, the Ford dealer probably has good lawyers and can drag there feet for a long time, since that is the case I will just stick with what the manufacture says and do 5000 mile OCI's with whatever oil I choose too use.
Tim, you better not come back with, " Well the Amsoil Tech Guy was Wrong", becuase anyone with half a brain will not buy that statement.
Which Tech Guy did you speak to?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
I went ahead and called up the Amsoil Tech Line this morning and I got some different information than what you stated above.
Did he mention that they could authorize and pay for repairs immediately once they got confirmation from the vehicle manufacturer that they said the oil failed?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:The Tech Guy told me that if the Lubricant failed, Amsoil will investigate as to why the lubricated part failed. I asked him how long this process could take, he said it could take a couple of months, I then said is there a possibility this could drag out longer, like 6 months to a year, and he said YES.
They have to state and prove the oil failed. Extended change intervals have nothing to do with it if the oil did not fail.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:So, In this scenario, I can have Ford saying my part went bad becuase of my extended OCI,
AMSOIL would have to prove the oil did not fail and the part did by 3rd party analysis.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: and then Amsoil will be saying it was not the lubricants fault, but a problem with the part that failed,
Since AMSOIL would authorize repairs immediately upon getting written notification from Ford that the oil failed, why would your car sit around any longer than normal?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: if Amsoil and Ford are going back and forth this could easily drag on for more than a year. So my car that I am making payments on is just sitting, and I am supposed to drive a rental car around until this is taken care of, who is going to pay for the rental car, me, so I pickup a cheap rental for $16.00 a day, that comes out to $480.00 a month.
Told ya.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: You are right in that you do not have to do a UOA every 5000 miles,
But since AMSOIL has never failed, you would likely be wasting time and money on a UOA for that purpose. But if you want to show that something from Ford is failing and want to catch it early, then you can do that if you want. Otherwise, save your money and wait for the part to fail and Ford will pay.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: but the Amsoil Tech Guy said this would be good if a problem arises, my Amsoil rep gave me good advice about doing a UOA every 5000 miles since he is looking after my best interests.
That is what I said. For someones peace of mind if using an API certified oil provides that for you. But as AMSOIL, consumer law and the vehicle manufacturers own words, it is not necessary. Again read "Warranties and AMSOIL" http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: The Amsoil Tech Guy said if you are really worried about a problem arising when you are still under warranty with the manufacture that it would be best to use the Amsoil XL Line of Oil's.
Exactly what I suggested. It would have even been better to email your question in writing and then post the question and response here.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:He also told me if you read something strange on some internet forum that some Amsoil Salesman posted and you have doubts, just call us on the Tech Line.
I said it would only take a few days for AMSOIL to authorize repairs when they receive a letter from the vehicle manufacturer that the oil failed. If AMSOIL proves that the manufacturer defect caused the problem, they would go after the manufacturer for reimbursement to AMSOIL. Just like I said.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Tim tells us this whole process could only take a few days, and the Amsoil Tech Guy tells me it can take a couple of months or more, I think he was being conservative in his estimate of how long the process would take to get resolved, playing " Devil's Advocate" this process could take 2 to 3 years to get resolved.
I see nothing that the AMSOIL tech or I said that shows we are not on the same page. Only your interpretation of what we each said.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:This whole Extended Warranty Thing is getting real complicated and it seems an Amsoil Dealer and the Amsoil Tech Guy are not on the same page as to how long it will take for a warranty issue to get resolved, the Ford dealer probably has good lawyers and can drag there feet for a long time, since that is the case I will just stick with what the manufacture says and do 5000 mile OCI's with whatever oil I choose too use.
Why would I say that? I am in complete agreement with what he said. Just not in complete agreement with what you said.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Tim, you better not come back with, " Well the Amsoil Tech Guy was Wrong", becuase anyone with half a brain will not buy that statement.
I am still looking for the name, phone number, or dealer number for your neighbor. I've searched some info I have and see no dealer in New York that has more sales and at a higher level than I.
quote:Since AMSOIL would authorize repairs immediately upon getting written notification from Ford that the oil failed, why would your car sit around any longer than normal?
Because Amsoil will want to investigate why the oil failed, you think Amsoil is going to just fork over the money to fix the car once Ford tells them there oil is spent. In case you do not remember, in the Amsoil Warranty they clearly state that you need to send in an Oil Sample to Amsoil, and they will also do a full investigation, and if you happen to lose your receipt that shows what you have purchased from Amsoil, then Amsoil is off the hook.
You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
Only if an oil is determined to be the direct cause of an engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and getting your vehicle repaired. That's AMSOIL's pledge to you. AMSOIL Inc. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer (or snowmobile, boat, RV, motorcycle, etc...) or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem. AMSOIL will submit a claim with their insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and their insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Yes, if Ford Motor Company states in writing that the oil failed, not spent, and AMSOIL has received a copy, a sample of your oil, and the other items they ask for to help them find the cause of failure.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Since AMSOIL would authorize repairs immediately upon getting written notification from Ford that the oil failed, why would your car sit around any longer than normal?
Because Amsoil will want to investigate why the oil failed, you think Amsoil is going to just fork over the money to fix the car once Ford tells them there oil is spent.
When you have a repair and suspect the AMSOIL may have possibly been the problem, then contact AMSOIL Technical immediately. That way when Ford is working on their findings, AMSOIL can begin working on theirs. AMSOIL wants proof that you have AMSOIL in the engine, and one of the ways is to provide them with your receipt. If you purchase direct from AMSOIL, they will have a record of your purchase. If you buy direct from your dealer, he should issue you a receipt. I think every oil company and vehicle manufacturer recommends you keep your receipts for proof of purchase.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: In case you do not remember, in the Amsoil Warranty they clearly state that you need to send in an Oil Sample to Amsoil, and they will also do a full investigation, and if you happen to lose your receipt that shows what you have purchased from Amsoil, then Amsoil is off the hook.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step up and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
I've never heard of any of this being a big deal and that the customer was without his car for months. Please show that this has happened.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Only if an oil is determined to be the direct cause of an engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and getting your vehicle repaired. That's AMSOIL's pledge to you. AMSOIL Inc. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer (or snowmobile, boat, RV, motorcycle, etc...) or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem. AMSOIL will submit a claim with their insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and their insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
So it really depends on how long Ford takes to do their part and oil analysis and to authorize repairs.
I don't see, nor have ever heard, where an AMSOIL insurance adjuster comes to check on things since AMSOIL has the oil and parts and the 3rd party analysis performed.
I have never heard of it being described as a long process.
The rare cases I have heard of are the dealership claiming the oil or extended intervals are to blame. Then a call to AMSOIL should be made. Normally, that is enough for the dealership to contact Ford and repairs are then made.
Then I suggest you talking with the AMSOIL Tech guy and ask him your questions.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
quote:Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.
I am not buying what Amsoil is saying here, I have seen to many lousy UOA's with Amsoil being spent between 13,000 and 17,000 miles. I think there have been some problems and Amsoil is just keeping quiet.
I know Amsoil makes some good products, but I have seen to many other companies say things that were really not true, so I am skeptical.
Everything Redline has told me has turned out to be true, I am just having doubts about Amsoil.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Nice example, and it shows how reps giving bad advise can cost the end user big money. UOA's are a waste was the advise given here. If one of those engines in the example you gave failed it would not be oil related, Amsoil would be off the hook. I'd grab the rep that told me UOA's were a waste, and see where that would get me in court. Most likely he'd swear he didn't discuss UOA's with you and it would be your word against his. That's why these boards are nice since we have the bad advise given in writing here. Amsoil obviously has no control over what these reps say. Good thing you had the brains to do a UOA.
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Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
I have about as much faith in Amsoil's Warranty as I do with what Tim has said in this thread, I'll pass on both and just use a cheaper oil that is just as good as Amsoil Motor Oil.
The warranty is a contract. You do not follow the obligations agreed to under the contract, you forfiet any benefit of said contract.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
Reason NOT to use Amsoil
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The warranty is a contract. You do not follow the obligations agreed to under the contract, you forfiet any benefit of said contract.
“Installation or the use of special materials does not, in and of itself, void the New Vehicle Limited Warranties.”
Service and Parts Operations,
Chrysler Corporation
“If engine damage otherwise covered by warranty was found to be unrelated to the engine lubricant, then the consumer’s practice with regard to oil change intervals would not be a relevant consideration, and the warranty claim would be honored.”
Fuels and Lubricants Division,
General Motors Research Laboratories
“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the
prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
I can let it go, maybe we need to here from the renegade Amsoil Salesman and see what he has too say.
To clarify, Pablo is not the renegade Amsoil salesman.
Sorry to chime in late, I have been away from the board for a while. If I was the OP, I would go with Motorcraft oil, either the blend or full syn. M/C filters and follow the recommended OCI while under warranty. Motorcraft oil (Conoco-Phillips), meets all of Ford's specs and there would be no-doubt if a warranty claim should arise. The dealer is probably selling Amsoil Xl at the usual stealership markup (75% or more) and will tell you to come back in 3K miles (maybe 5K). It is just more incentive to get people to come into the service bay. They may shoot themselves in the foot though, if they install non API/Ford Spec oil, especially when a warranty claim should come through the door.
Dave
Dave
Just wanted to say the same thing on this thread as the other.
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I was in a garage today and looked over the oil filters they were stocking. I was surprised how small those filter are. As you say, lawnmower size filters. What gives?
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
I was in a garage today and looked over the oil filters they were stocking. I was surprised how small those filter are. As you say, lawnmower size filters. What gives?
Those small filters work great when the car is brand new,or under lab conditions. The real world has "struck" them down,almost every time...over time. If synthetic group IV is used from new,they might be ok.
If you ever have the chance to cut open one of those smaller oil filters,the first thing you will notice is the actual filtering media is half the size of the outer can,so it's actually even worse than it seems!!
My VW 1.8t has been upgraded to a 'quart sized' larger filter by the MFG,because of all the sludge issues,which I don't have because of the oil I use. VW now mandates synthetic because the larger filter was not enough to prevent the sludge issues with domestic quick lube motor oil. The synthetic most people use is only group III,good for maybe 30% longer then group II,or around 5,000 miles give or take. The micro filter=3,000 miles with group III,or go for the larger filter if you can cross reference,if not,go for the cm filter.
This is the way to get a larger,superior quality filter if all else fails
http://www.cmfilters.com/oil_filters.html
I saw some that were either cartridges or were cut open. About the size of computer mouse. What gives? Is oil so good these days that filters are redundant?
Amsoil Limited Warranty - Lubricants
( for the 50 United States, the District of Columbia and Canada )
Amsoil INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that at the time of sale its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of Amsoil INC. and in applications for which one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels are specified. Amsoil INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design and workmanship.
THIS WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING LIMITATIONS AND GENERAL DISCLAIMER:
1. This warranty only applies to AMSOIL lubricants for which AMSOIL does not offer a seperate, specific warranty.
2. The warranty herein applies only to AMSOIL lubricants that are packaged by AMSOIL INC. and sold by AMSOIL INC. or an authorized Dealer.
3) The liability of AMSOIL INC. shall be limited to:
a. Replacement of the defective lubricant.
b. The cost, including labor and materials, to repair damaged equipment, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., the cost to replace damaged equipment, resulting directly from the use of AMSOIL lubricants when used in the proper applications.
4) IN NO CASE SHALL AMSOIL INC. BE LIABLE FOR SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGE OR LOSS OF OTHER PROPERTY OR EQUIPMENT, LOSS OF PROFITS OR REVENUE, COST OF CAPITAL, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LODGING, TOWING OR COST OF REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT. THE LIABILITY OF AMSOIL INC. ARISING OUT OF THE MANUFACTURE, SALE, DELIVERY, INSTALLATION, TECHNICAL DIRECTIONS OR RECOMMENDATION OF ANY LUBRICANT-WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT, WARRANTY OR OTHERWISE-SHALL NOT EXCEED THE VALUE OF THE EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE PRODUCT(S) WERE USED. THE REMEDIES TO THE PURCHASER HEREIN ARE EXCLUSIVE.
5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completly followed:
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacture is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer ( OEM ) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedures.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.
c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following:
(a.) An eight (8) ounce represenative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean, dry container.
(b.) Documentation including make, model and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours and duty cycle or service environment.
(c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of Amsoil lubricant installation, general equipment repairs and oil analysis results if available.
(d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant.
(e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis ( if available ).
d. Mail the above sample and information to:
AMSOIL INC.
ATTN: Technical Services
One AMSOIL Center
Superior, WI 54880
e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provided a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners.
2. AMSOIL lubricants used in any aircraft or aviation application.
3. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purpose of (a) racing or (b) without the written approval of AMSOIL INC. in applications where the OEM-required lubricant standards do not match those stated by AMSOIL INC.
4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
5. AMSOIL lubricants which have been packaged, regardless of container, by anyone other than AMSOIL INC. or an AMSOIL authorized packager.
6. Any allegedly defective AMSOIL lubricant for which a reasonable sample has not been preserved.
7. Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. or the OEM for warranty coverage.
8. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by AMSOIL INC.
9. Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL.
10. Repair or replacement of equipment becuase of normal wear.
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
2. AMSOIL INC. was not notified within 30 days from the date of failure.
3. Claims information is insufficient.
4. Parts inspected do not substantiate a claim or indicate failure.
5. Parts requested were not sent or are unavailable for inspection.
6. Oil Sample was not provided.
7. Failure of the customer to follow the written procedure herein.
8. Customer refused to cooperate with the investigation
9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect.
This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin in the United States of America.
AMSOIL INC. IS THE SOLE AUTHOR OF THIS POLICY AND MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INLESS A SEPERATE WARRANTY HAS BEEN WRITTEN.
SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS, WHICH VARY FROM STATE TO STATE.
This Amsoil Warranty does not protect the Amsoil Customer, this warranty protects AMSOIL INC.
( for the 50 United States, the District of Columbia and Canada )
Amsoil INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that at the time of sale its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of Amsoil INC. and in applications for which one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels are specified. Amsoil INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design and workmanship.
THIS WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING LIMITATIONS AND GENERAL DISCLAIMER:
1. This warranty only applies to AMSOIL lubricants for which AMSOIL does not offer a seperate, specific warranty.
2. The warranty herein applies only to AMSOIL lubricants that are packaged by AMSOIL INC. and sold by AMSOIL INC. or an authorized Dealer.
3) The liability of AMSOIL INC. shall be limited to:
a. Replacement of the defective lubricant.
b. The cost, including labor and materials, to repair damaged equipment, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., the cost to replace damaged equipment, resulting directly from the use of AMSOIL lubricants when used in the proper applications.
4) IN NO CASE SHALL AMSOIL INC. BE LIABLE FOR SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGE OR LOSS OF OTHER PROPERTY OR EQUIPMENT, LOSS OF PROFITS OR REVENUE, COST OF CAPITAL, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LODGING, TOWING OR COST OF REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT. THE LIABILITY OF AMSOIL INC. ARISING OUT OF THE MANUFACTURE, SALE, DELIVERY, INSTALLATION, TECHNICAL DIRECTIONS OR RECOMMENDATION OF ANY LUBRICANT-WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT, WARRANTY OR OTHERWISE-SHALL NOT EXCEED THE VALUE OF THE EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE PRODUCT(S) WERE USED. THE REMEDIES TO THE PURCHASER HEREIN ARE EXCLUSIVE.
5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completly followed:
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacture is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer ( OEM ) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedures.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.
c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following:
(a.) An eight (8) ounce represenative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean, dry container.
(b.) Documentation including make, model and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours and duty cycle or service environment.
(c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of Amsoil lubricant installation, general equipment repairs and oil analysis results if available.
(d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant.
(e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis ( if available ).
d. Mail the above sample and information to:
AMSOIL INC.
ATTN: Technical Services
One AMSOIL Center
Superior, WI 54880
e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provided a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners.
2. AMSOIL lubricants used in any aircraft or aviation application.
3. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purpose of (a) racing or (b) without the written approval of AMSOIL INC. in applications where the OEM-required lubricant standards do not match those stated by AMSOIL INC.
4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
5. AMSOIL lubricants which have been packaged, regardless of container, by anyone other than AMSOIL INC. or an AMSOIL authorized packager.
6. Any allegedly defective AMSOIL lubricant for which a reasonable sample has not been preserved.
7. Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. or the OEM for warranty coverage.
8. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by AMSOIL INC.
9. Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL.
10. Repair or replacement of equipment becuase of normal wear.
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
2. AMSOIL INC. was not notified within 30 days from the date of failure.
3. Claims information is insufficient.
4. Parts inspected do not substantiate a claim or indicate failure.
5. Parts requested were not sent or are unavailable for inspection.
6. Oil Sample was not provided.
7. Failure of the customer to follow the written procedure herein.
8. Customer refused to cooperate with the investigation
9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect.
This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin in the United States of America.
AMSOIL INC. IS THE SOLE AUTHOR OF THIS POLICY AND MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INLESS A SEPERATE WARRANTY HAS BEEN WRITTEN.
SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS, WHICH VARY FROM STATE TO STATE.
This Amsoil Warranty does not protect the Amsoil Customer, this warranty protects AMSOIL INC.
It protects the customer as stated in the above paragraph. Warranted for use in recommended longer extended oil change intervals than the competition. Several others only warranty for up to 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil Limited Warranty - Lubricants
( for the 50 United States, the District of Columbia and Canada )
Amsoil INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that at the time of sale its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of Amsoil INC. and in applications for which one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels are specified. Amsoil INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design and workmanship.
This Amsoil Warranty does not protect the Amsoil Customer, this warranty protects AMSOIL INC.
And "3) The liability of AMSOIL INC. shall be limited to:
a. Replacement of the defective lubricant.
b. The cost, including labor and materials, to repair damaged equipment, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., the cost to replace damaged equipment, resulting directly from the use of AMSOIL lubricants when used in the proper applications."
Pretty much covers everything, doesn't it? Much better than 15 parts the other guys warranty...
quote:It protects the customer as stated in the above paragraph. Warranted for use in recommended longer extended oil change intervals than the competition. Several others only warranty for up to 4,000 miles/4 months and only cover 15 parts.
This Amsoil Warranty is a TOTAL JOKE, there are just too many ways Amsoil can get out of paying up, I had a LAWYER read this Amsoil Warranty and he even said all it does is protect AMSOIL INC.
I do not care about some other oil company having a 4 month / 4000 mile warranty, the TRUTH is no oil company is going to pay out on there WARRANTY.
Anyone reading this, please go back and read the Amsoil Warranty again and give me your thoughts, I find it interesting that the Amsoil Warranty is not printed on there website, you have to Download it, and of course when you down load it , you cannot copy it.
Tim, if you believe in this pathetic Warranty then wouldn't you have been the ONE to have posted it here 1st on Noria for us to read instead of me.
You make all these claims about Amsoil having a Warranty yet you never printed it out for us, if there is a problem that warranty is a NIGHTMARE for any Amsoil customer who has to go through that process, anyone reading this may not believe me, go read the AMSOIL WARRANTY again.
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
AD
AD
That's why I am dumping the Ams. ATF this weekend and going back to Nissan Matic S. Amsoil seems to make the shifts sloppy, vs Nissan's smooth, hear the (engine rpm) shift, not feel it (jerk, bang).
Dave
Dave
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
AD
Warranty FAIL if you use a quality K&N, Pure One, Bosch distance plus, or M-1 filter.
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
That's why I am dumping the Ams. ATF this weekend and going back to Nissan Matic S. Amsoil seems to make the shifts sloppy, vs Nissan's smooth, hear the (engine rpm) shift, not feel it (jerk, bang).
Dave
I've read about Honda issues with the ATF, and was jumped on in another thread. Stick with the OEM fluid and be safe.
Interesting remarks about the filters, guess you got to buy the total package, better make sure the PCV valve is OEM too, and the plugs.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
That's why I am dumping the Ams. ATF this weekend and going back to Nissan Matic S. Amsoil seems to make the shifts sloppy, vs Nissan's smooth, hear the (engine rpm) shift, not feel it (jerk, bang).
Dave
I've read about Honda issues with the ATF, and was jumped on in another thread. Stick with the OEM fluid and be safe.
Interesting remarks about the filters, guess you got to buy the total package, better make sure the PCV valve is OEM too, and the plugs.
AD
Yep, OEM may be more expensive, but it has worked well before. It's going back in.
Good move Dave!
AD
AD
The warranty is easily found on the AMSOIL website. The process is clear and easy. No nightmare. No complaints from any consumer or government agency. Works as advertised.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, if you believe in this pathetic Warranty then wouldn't you have been the ONE to have posted it here 1st on Noria for us to read instead of me.
You make all these claims about Amsoil having a Warranty yet you never printed it out for us, if there is a problem that warranty is a NIGHTMARE for any Amsoil customer who has to go through that process, anyone reading this may not believe me, go read the AMSOIL WARRANTY again.
Now hunt around and check out the other motor oil warranties. Less coverage, more restrictions.
You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
Amsoil sure has an out with this clause, you might have to go after UPS or FedEx, the problem here is that you have already opened the bottles and thrown them away.
I do not need to look at the other Oil Companies Warranties, I have enough confidence with the oil that I use so I am not even worried about there Warranty.
AMSOIL has always said "Service Lifequote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.
*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer
(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.
(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils."
If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.