A Ford dealership here in Ontario will install Amsoil engine oil in their "Fast Lane" facility.
I haven't yet inquired as to oil change intervals.
Does anyone know?
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quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
What were the problems?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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So one quote from a Honda service writer about one transmission outweighs dozens of testimonials on BITOG? I've looked in and posted 5 threads so far and haven't found any AMSOIL ATF issues yet. They all said the AMSOIL ATF was better than the Honda Z1. Please post the issues about people having issues with the AMSOIL ATF. Several mentioned they got the idea to switch from the Honda Z1 to AMSOIL from the rave reviews AMSOIL got in Honda forums.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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Junk? What junk? I was trained as a chemist and research scientist. I don't know how the other AMSOIL rep was trained. We probably read similar AMSOIL and competitor technical information, motor oil publications, tribology books and testing.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
They both state their case. But the tie breaker is all the Honda customer posts that used both and prefer AMSOIL over the Honda Z1.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
Why did he tell you that? Which vehicle tranny/rear end was this for? What mfg approved juice did you use?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
quote:Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
quote:So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
John, I listed them previously. Here the are again:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Then I suggest you talking with the AMSOIL Tech guy and ask him your questions.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
quote:Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
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The warranty is easily found on the AMSOIL website. The process is clear and easy. No nightmare. No complaints from any consumer or government agency. Works as advertised.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, if you believe in this pathetic Warranty then wouldn't you have been the ONE to have posted it here 1st on Noria for us to read instead of me.
You make all these claims about Amsoil having a Warranty yet you never printed it out for us, if there is a problem that warranty is a NIGHTMARE for any Amsoil customer who has to go through that process, anyone reading this may not believe me, go read the AMSOIL WARRANTY again.
You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
AMSOIL has always said "Service Lifequote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Those were my own words. Not copied from AMSOIL's SalesBook, whatever that is.quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
It would be nice if you wrote your own words instead of copying stuff out of Amsoil's SalesBook.Why would I say that? If the parts meet OEM specs and is not the cause, then there is no problem. If the part caused the problem, it would be the parts company's concern.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: You could have just said, if you do not use an OEM Part then your warranty is not covered.Not really, unless the part does not meet the OEM specifications and caused the problem.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Here are some areas where you can get in trouble with the Amsoil Warranty:
1) Non- OEM Air Filter
2) Non- OEM Spark Plugs
3) Non- OEM PCV Valve
4) Non-OEM Exhaust
We do not need to call the Amsoil Tech Line, we already have there Warranty that if it were a CHEESE it would be Swiss Cheese since it has many holes in it.
quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?
I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
Pennzoil tried to put AMSOIL out of business in the 70's because of the letter "Z" in the original AMZOIL spelling. I guess they couldn't come up with anything else. Castrol tried to put much smaller Royal Purple out of business due to false advertising. I'm sure big oil would like to put AMSOIL out of business, but they can't.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I am not buying anything you have said here, the reason nobody has tried to put Amsoil out of business is because they do not sell much oil, you can prove me wrong by showing us some real data on Amsoil's sales figures as opposed to your line of Amsoil doubling in sales every year.
Mobil has to make public disclosure since they are a publicly traded stock and have to report and pay their stockholders. AMSOIL is the worlds largest privately owned synthetic oil company, and as such, they may not be required to do so.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why don't you get one of the guys up at Amsoil Corporate to drop by here, we are still waiting for the guy that went over 900,000 miles using Amsoil Motor Oil to sho up and answer our questions.
quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
4% Market Share, that does not impress me.
I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.![]()
Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL. I pointed it out when some asserted that AMSOIL's sales are only a "flea on an elephants arse", or that their competition sells more in a day than AMSOIL does in a year, or that AMSOIL isn't on anybody's radar, etc.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
that data came from NOLN.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing,
I've never seen Redline, Synlube or RLI Biosyn at a Jiffy Lube, but have seen AMSOIL, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 there. Not bad considering Jiffy Lube is owned by Shell Oil, and are contractually obligated to sell a high percentage (80 or 90%) of Pennzoil/QuakerState/Rotella products.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
Tim, if you want to quote numbers you really need to give us some real concrete proof, doesn't Amsoil print out there sales figures every year, something like:
2009= $100,000,000
2008= $75,000,000
2007= $50,000,000
quote:I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Market shares just seem misleading too me, you did show a graph where Mobil had like 58% market share and Amsoil had 4% market share, I am looking for what it means in dollars and cents.
Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your statements. Provide the proof to back them up. I can't prove something that didn't happen.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your the Amsoil Salesman, you PROVE me WRONG.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
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quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
3. Change PCV valve yourself = Not all models even have one now days. You also failed to mention to only use OEM valve if changed,and never use aftermarket valve. You could void the warranty with trajans advice.
Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!
I think Trajan gave some good advise. I only used OEM PCV valves, they never gave me problems. My dad told me aftermarket can cause oil use, they did for him, changing back to OEM easily fixed it. I'll take his word.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
quote:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
quote:Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
quote:quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.
quote:
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
I think we would like to see these reports too!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112
IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324
IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Typed Drawing
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
[/QUOTE]quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.
Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
quote:Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP