A Ford dealership here in Ontario will install Amsoil engine oil in their "Fast Lane" facility.
I haven't yet inquired as to oil change intervals.
Does anyone know?
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AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals. Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.
If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.
No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!
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The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I will try to find out.
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I sent of a post to Anthony Polito of Polito Ford in Lindsay, Ontario. He's going to get back to me with info.
I have a feeling that Ford is not as generous as GM re OCIs.
My Manual sez 6 months or 8 000 kms. That's it.
If that's the case, XL, or next highest on the list is the oil of choice for me. If they stock it and the price differential is 1 or 2 bucks.
I'll let you know when I know.
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
From my understanding, you can purchase the Ford ESP after you purchase your car, you can purchase the Ford ESP right up until your 3 year 36 month warranty expires.
Do not get talked into anyone from Ford on buying any other extended warranty policy, the Ford ESP is the best, and all of the others are worthless, these other 3rd party warranties make you leave the car at the dealer and it can take weeks for a represenative to come out, with the Ford ESP, the service advisor just makes a quick call.
It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
Better yet, why don't you email AMSOIL technical with your warranty question, so you can get their answer back in writing. They are the one responsible for the warranty, not an AMSOIL Dealer. Then you can paste their answer here.
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL warranty: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL claim procedure: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g40.pdf?zo=1181889 .
What were the problems?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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So one quote from a Honda service writer about one transmission outweighs dozens of testimonials on BITOG? I've looked in and posted 5 threads so far and haven't found any AMSOIL ATF issues yet. They all said the AMSOIL ATF was better than the Honda Z1. Please post the issues about people having issues with the AMSOIL ATF. Several mentioned they got the idea to switch from the Honda Z1 to AMSOIL from the rave reviews AMSOIL got in Honda forums.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Junk? What junk? I was trained as a chemist and research scientist. I don't know how the other AMSOIL rep was trained. We probably read similar AMSOIL and competitor technical information, motor oil publications, tribology books and testing.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
They both state their case. But the tie breaker is all the Honda customer posts that used both and prefer AMSOIL over the Honda Z1.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
I also can not find the Honda Z-1 Product Data Sheets that list product specifications, yet AMSOIL's is easily found. You have to wonder if it is because they don't want consumers to compare specifications and test results.
So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Why did he tell you that? Which vehicle tranny/rear end was this for? What mfg approved juice did you use?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
quote:Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
Tim, you seem to operate under the assumption that its all about basestock. Honda may utilize the stated base oil due to their inherent ability to better handle and additive package. Perhaps Honda has identified a specific friction modifier that wouldn't stay supspended in 100% synthetic basestock.
quote:So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Maybe Amsoil needs a higher flashpoint to compensate for missing friction modifier. Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
John, I listed them previously. Here the are again:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .
And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
The proof is in the pudding.
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
Agreed. AFAIK, as long as you follow the car mfg OCI you don't need a UOA or anything special. Just proof that you bought a mfg approved spec'd oil and the proper filter. Simple just follow directions, and enjoy your wheels.
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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Back in the Model T days that was probably true
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Only if an oil is determined to be the direct cause of an engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and getting your vehicle repaired. That's AMSOIL's pledge to you. AMSOIL Inc. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer (or snowmobile, boat, RV, motorcycle, etc...) or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem. AMSOIL will submit a claim with their insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and their insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Then I suggest you talking with the AMSOIL Tech guy and ask him your questions.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
quote:Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.
I am not buying what Amsoil is saying here, I have seen to many lousy UOA's with Amsoil being spent between 13,000 and 17,000 miles. I think there have been some problems and Amsoil is just keeping quiet.
I know Amsoil makes some good products, but I have seen to many other companies say things that were really not true, so I am skeptical.
Everything Redline has told me has turned out to be true, I am just having doubts about Amsoil.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Nice example, and it shows how reps giving bad advise can cost the end user big money. UOA's are a waste was the advise given here. If one of those engines in the example you gave failed it would not be oil related, Amsoil would be off the hook. I'd grab the rep that told me UOA's were a waste, and see where that would get me in court. Most likely he'd swear he didn't discuss UOA's with you and it would be your word against his. That's why these boards are nice since we have the bad advise given in writing here. Amsoil obviously has no control over what these reps say. Good thing you had the brains to do a UOA.
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Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
I have about as much faith in Amsoil's Warranty as I do with what Tim has said in this thread, I'll pass on both and just use a cheaper oil that is just as good as Amsoil Motor Oil.
The warranty is a contract. You do not follow the obligations agreed to under the contract, you forfiet any benefit of said contract.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
Reason NOT to use Amsoil
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
I can let it go, maybe we need to here from the renegade Amsoil Salesman and see what he has too say.
To clarify, Pablo is not the renegade Amsoil salesman.
Sorry to chime in late, I have been away from the board for a while. If I was the OP, I would go with Motorcraft oil, either the blend or full syn. M/C filters and follow the recommended OCI while under warranty. Motorcraft oil (Conoco-Phillips), meets all of Ford's specs and there would be no-doubt if a warranty claim should arise. The dealer is probably selling Amsoil Xl at the usual stealership markup (75% or more) and will tell you to come back in 3K miles (maybe 5K). It is just more incentive to get people to come into the service bay. They may shoot themselves in the foot though, if they install non API/Ford Spec oil, especially when a warranty claim should come through the door.
Dave
Dave
Just wanted to say the same thing on this thread as the other.
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I was in a garage today and looked over the oil filters they were stocking. I was surprised how small those filter are. As you say, lawnmower size filters. What gives?
I saw some that were either cartridges or were cut open. About the size of computer mouse. What gives? Is oil so good these days that filters are redundant?
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
AD
Warranty FAIL if you use a quality K&N, Pure One, Bosch distance plus, or M-1 filter.
Dave
Good move Dave!
AD
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The warranty is easily found on the AMSOIL website. The process is clear and easy. No nightmare. No complaints from any consumer or government agency. Works as advertised.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, if you believe in this pathetic Warranty then wouldn't you have been the ONE to have posted it here 1st on Noria for us to read instead of me.
You make all these claims about Amsoil having a Warranty yet you never printed it out for us, if there is a problem that warranty is a NIGHTMARE for any Amsoil customer who has to go through that process, anyone reading this may not believe me, go read the AMSOIL WARRANTY again.
Now hunt around and check out the other motor oil warranties. Less coverage, more restrictions.
You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
Amsoil sure has an out with this clause, you might have to go after UPS or FedEx, the problem here is that you have already opened the bottles and thrown them away.
I do not need to look at the other Oil Companies Warranties, I have enough confidence with the oil that I use so I am not even worried about there Warranty.
AMSOIL has always said "Service Lifequote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.
*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer
(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.
(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils."
If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
Tim, we do not care about other motor oil warranties, we do not need them compared to Amsoil's SHAMEFUL Warranty.
It would be nice if you wrote your own words instead of copying stuff out of Amsoil's SalesBook.
You could have just said, if you do not use an OEM Part then your warranty is not covered.
Here are some areas where you can get in trouble with the Amsoil Warranty:
1) Non- OEM Air Filter
2) Non- OEM Spark Plugs
3) Non- OEM PCV Valve
4) Non-OEM Exhaust
We do not need to call the Amsoil Tech Line, we already have there Warranty that if it were a CHEESE it would be Swiss Cheese since it has many holes in it.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records? Very few. How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history? Very few, give me a break. In the prefect world people keep detailed logs, maybe 1 in a 1000 as a guess. If they have records do they have actual register tapes for every repair going back 5 years, 8 years, if they did the work themselves? That 1 in a 1000 probably becomes 1 in 2000. Anyone can create a repair log in an Excel program, now is the info valid? That is another story, and something Amsoil can easily challenge. Lets get real Tim.
If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Those were my own words. Not copied from AMSOIL's SalesBook, whatever that is.quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
It would be nice if you wrote your own words instead of copying stuff out of Amsoil's SalesBook.Why would I say that? If the parts meet OEM specs and is not the cause, then there is no problem. If the part caused the problem, it would be the parts company's concern.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: You could have just said, if you do not use an OEM Part then your warranty is not covered.Not really, unless the part does not meet the OEM specifications and caused the problem.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Here are some areas where you can get in trouble with the Amsoil Warranty:
1) Non- OEM Air Filter
2) Non- OEM Spark Plugs
3) Non- OEM PCV Valve
4) Non-OEM Exhaust
We do not need to call the Amsoil Tech Line, we already have there Warranty that if it were a CHEESE it would be Swiss Cheese since it has many holes in it.
quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I am not buying anything you have said here, the reason nobody has tried to put Amsoil out of business is because they do not sell much oil, you can prove me wrong by showing us some real data on Amsoil's sales figures as opposed to your line of Amsoil doubling in sales every year.
Why don't you get one of the guys up at Amsoil Corporate to drop by here, we are still waiting for the guy that went over 900,000 miles using Amsoil Motor Oil to sho up and answer our questions.
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?
I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
Your answer is " I don't know " is that because the ANSWER was not in your magic Amsoil Sales Book.
I bought a used car back in 1985 with no service records and I am still driving it today.
Pennzoil tried to put AMSOIL out of business in the 70's because of the letter "Z" in the original AMZOIL spelling. I guess they couldn't come up with anything else. Castrol tried to put much smaller Royal Purple out of business due to false advertising. I'm sure big oil would like to put AMSOIL out of business, but they can't.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I am not buying anything you have said here, the reason nobody has tried to put Amsoil out of business is because they do not sell much oil, you can prove me wrong by showing us some real data on Amsoil's sales figures as opposed to your line of Amsoil doubling in sales every year.
Where did I say AMSOIL's sales is doubling every year?
Mobil has to make public disclosure since they are a publicly traded stock and have to report and pay their stockholders. AMSOIL is the worlds largest privately owned synthetic oil company, and as such, they may not be required to do so.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
However, Motor Oil sales figures are available from NOLN . Here are some:
http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf .
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...news/actionnews.aspx See page 10.
AMSOIL started with 1 dealer. Now they have 50,000 to 70,000.
AMSOIL started blending,packaging and warehousing in a 400 square foot garage. Now they blend and package in 9 acres under one roof. You can learn more at https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2593.pdf . And have 13 other warehouses. And distribute in 26 countries.
They have registered over 1.9 million accounts.
Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why don't you get one of the guys up at Amsoil Corporate to drop by here, we are still waiting for the guy that went over 900,000 miles using Amsoil Motor Oil to sho up and answer our questions.
quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
4% Market Share, that does not impress me.
I am sure the Delivery Van Driver is on another vacation.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
4% Market Share, that does not impress me.
How about Havoline's 2%, or Quaker States 4%, or Castrol's 7%?
I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
Now that made me chuckle.
Shell has owned the Pennzoil and QuakerState brands for around 10 years now in an attempt to increase market share. All 3 of their brands are down in market share since then. AMSOIL has record sales this year. The motor oil market overall is down 20% this year. AMSOIL has doubled in sales in the past 4 years. Looks like motorists are leaving the other brands more and using AMSOIL.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Thu June 03 2010 03:15 PM
Tim Vipond
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Sun June 06 2010 07:05 AM Hide Post
Again, no problems reported other than a small number of vehicles had a light come in a few extreme cases. No damage has been reported. If damage occurs due to the filters, AMSOIL pays for repairs.
Here is some data comparing AMSOIL's market share to the competitors:
"The 2009 Fast Lube Operators Survey shows AMSOIL is
among the top-selling synthetic motor oils in the fast lube
business. In fact, 4 percent of operators listed AMSOIL as
their best-selling synthetic motor oil. The AMSOIL percent-
ages were 2 percent in 2007 and 3 percent in 2008, indicat-
ing the demand for AMSOIL synthetic motor oil has doubled
in only two years."
A bit more than a flea as you stated, don't you agree?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Sun June 06 2010 12:57 PM
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing, maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Thu June 03 2010 03:15 PM
Tim Vipond
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Sun June 06 2010 07:05 AM Hide Post
Again, no problems reported other than a small number of vehicles had a light come in a few extreme cases. No damage has been reported. If damage occurs due to the filters, AMSOIL pays for repairs.
Here is some data comparing AMSOIL's market share to the competitors:
"The 2009 Fast Lube Operators Survey shows AMSOIL is
among the top-selling synthetic motor oils in the fast lube
business. In fact, 4 percent of operators listed AMSOIL as
their best-selling synthetic motor oil. The AMSOIL percent-
ages were 2 percent in 2007 and 3 percent in 2008, indicat-
ing the demand for AMSOIL synthetic motor oil has doubled
in only two years."
A bit more than a flea as you stated, don't you agree?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Sun June 06 2010 12:57 PM
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing, maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL. I pointed it out when some asserted that AMSOIL's sales are only a "flea on an elephants arse", or that their competition sells more in a day than AMSOIL does in a year, or that AMSOIL isn't on anybody's radar, etc.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
that data came from NOLN.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing,
I've never seen Redline, Synlube or RLI Biosyn at a Jiffy Lube, but have seen AMSOIL, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 there. Not bad considering Jiffy Lube is owned by Shell Oil, and are contractually obligated to sell a high percentage (80 or 90%) of Pennzoil/QuakerState/Rotella products.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
Tim, if you want to quote numbers you really need to give us some real concrete proof, doesn't Amsoil print out there sales figures every year, something like:
2009= $100,000,000
2008= $75,000,000
2007= $50,000,000
This motor oil sales for your competitors that you state is down 20% really means nothing to me.
Exxon/Mobil Sales could be up 90% next year and Pennzoil's or shall we say Shell's oil sales could be down 90%, I do not follow the Herd Mentality, I will continue using Pennzoil Platinum.
I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
Tim, if you want to quote numbers you really need to give us some real concrete proof, doesn't Amsoil print out there sales figures every year, something like:
2009= $100,000,000
2008= $75,000,000
2007= $50,000,000
quote:I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.
The Magazine stuff is not going to cut it, I believe you said Amsoil doubled there sales in 4 years, doubled from what number.
I would think that Amsoil Salesman would be interested in what the company is selling every year, or how much the company is making.
Lets say Exxon/ Mobil sold $300,000,000 last year and the year before it sold $270,000,000 worth of product, it would be nice for you guys, meaning the Amsoil Salesman too see how Amsoil is doing each year.
Market shares just seem misleading too me, you did show a graph where Mobil had like 58% market share and Amsoil had 4% market share, I am looking for what it means in dollars and cents.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Market shares just seem misleading too me, you did show a graph where Mobil had like 58% market share and Amsoil had 4% market share, I am looking for what it means in dollars and cents.
Bear...........Why would you even care about that info unless you were planning on buying the company,or loaning them money. Are you an investment banker,or a venture capitalist. Thinking about an IPO? What gives?
And yet, people have such a hard time understanding this.
Well, some people anyway.
Well, some people anyway.
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Do what you want. Hypothesize all you want. But you haven't proven a thing. You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL. I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years, millions of vehicles, billions of miles. The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
And of course, if any oil fails, even while following the vehicle manufacturers guidelines, then your "scenario" would still apply. Vehicle manufacture warranties only cover defective parts, not defective oil. So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty. Some are only for 4,000 miles/4 months and cover only 15 parts. Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
And of course, if any oil fails, even while following the vehicle manufacturers guidelines, then your "scenario" would still apply. Vehicle manufacture warranties only cover defective parts, not defective oil. So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty. Some are only for 4,000 miles/4 months and cover only 15 parts. Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
Quote:
Do what you want.
We all Will.
Quote:
But you haven't proven a thing.
Neither have you.
Quote:
You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL
The records are sealed.
Quote:
I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years
Your just not telling us.
Quote:
millions of vehicles
Can you prove that with DOCUMENTATION, sure sounds like a Sales Pitch.
Quote:
The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Quote:
So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty
I already read Amsoil's Warranty, and its worthless, I could care less about Pennzoil's Warranty since the oil is fine for me.
Quote:
Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
My uncle has a 1979 Pontiac with 220,000 miles that he has done yearly OCI's on the cheapest oil he can get his hands on, so he has done fine with his cheap oil that I would guess has absolutely no kind of WARRANTY.
Do what you want.
We all Will.
Quote:
But you haven't proven a thing.
Neither have you.
Quote:
You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL
The records are sealed.
Quote:
I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years
Your just not telling us.
Quote:
millions of vehicles
Can you prove that with DOCUMENTATION, sure sounds like a Sales Pitch.
Quote:
The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Quote:
So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty
I already read Amsoil's Warranty, and its worthless, I could care less about Pennzoil's Warranty since the oil is fine for me.
Quote:
Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
My uncle has a 1979 Pontiac with 220,000 miles that he has done yearly OCI's on the cheapest oil he can get his hands on, so he has done fine with his cheap oil that I would guess has absolutely no kind of WARRANTY.
Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your the Amsoil Salesman, you PROVE me WRONG.
Your statements. Provide the proof to back them up. I can't prove something that didn't happen.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your the Amsoil Salesman, you PROVE me WRONG.
can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
A few years ago in my area, an amsoil dealer did 25000-30000 mile oci's on his taurus. It started running badly, so he brought it in to the dealer with around 92000 miles. Apparently, the cam had been ground down. It was a 92 taurus with a 3.8L v6. From that experience, I would not really recommend running the oil that long. Maybe, if it got new filters and a fresh quart every 3-4K. It is an awesome oil, from what I hear, huh, but any oil for 25000 or 30000...maybe not such a good idea.
: can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
TomJones76-
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
A few years ago in my area, an amsoil dealer did 25000-30000 mile oci's on his taurus. It started running badly, so he brought it in to the dealer with around 92000 miles. Apparently, the cam had been ground down. It was a 92 taurus with a 3.8L v6. From that experience, I would not really recommend running the oil that long. Maybe, if it got new filters and a fresh quart every 3-4K. It is an awesome oil, from what I hear, huh, but any oil for 25000 or 30000...maybe not such a good idea.
: can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
TomJones76-
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
Point well taken Kirk, but if you use a mfg approved oil, and follow the intervals you'll be fine. That is unless there is a design flaw with the engine, in which case that would be a mfg issue they'd have to make good one. Just be able to show proof you've maintained the car as they outlined, using an approved oil and filter.
Even Amsoil had sludge issues in certain vehicles and suggests you follow mfg OCI's. These were design flaws and not the fault of the oil. I don't want to get the Amsoil boys all fired up again!
Even Amsoil wants no part of extended drains in some of these sludge prone engines.
AD
AD
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
3. Change PCV valve yourself = Not all models even have one now days. You also failed to mention to only use OEM valve if changed,and never use aftermarket valve. You could void the warranty with trajans advice.
Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!
I think Trajan gave some good advise. I only used OEM PCV valves, they never gave me problems. My dad told me aftermarket can cause oil use, they did for him, changing back to OEM easily fixed it. I'll take his word.
It's just further proof, if needed, that he doesn't read his own links. It's his own link that says change the PCV valve yourself.
It's also further proof that he cherry picks his own links.
Got to love it. He posts a link, then attacks his own link........
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
Same place he gets all his other claims that he has yet to back. The air.
quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
quote:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.
quote:Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
I think we would like to see these reports too!
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
Instead of trolling me over a PCV change, why don't you read your own link all the way through for once, instead of cherry picking?
look for the line "If you're on a budget" in the link *you* provided.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112
IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324
IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Typed Drawing
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
quote:quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.
quote:
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
I think we would like to see these reports too!
You going to show us the numbers Tim, I also looked at Amsoil's numbers on the ASTM D-5293 test and they did not look that good.
I also looked at the 40 Degree Celcius Numbers and I was not impressed.
You seem to like to knock Pennzoil but they did show numbers for the D-4684 test, Castrol Edge also showed numbers for this test, Amsoil does not have any numbers for this test meaning they do not show it on there site.
I have a feeling that since Amsoil is super thick they probably knew they would do terrible with the D-4684 test.
How come Amsoil 0W-20 is thicker than Amsoil 5W-20 XL, that Amsoil 0W-20 is almost a 0W-30 and some would argue that it is almost a 5W-20
Your Amsoil 0W-30 is thicker than Castrol Edge's 5W-30 and its very close to Pennzoil Platinums numbers for there 5W-30 motor oil.
Why is the 5W-30 XL thinner than the 5W-30 100% synthetic oil that Amsoil sells.
The Viscosity Indexes on your oil's looks pathetic, no wonder your oil's thicken up overtime.
Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112
IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324
IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Typed Drawing
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
TOO LATE BIG BEAR,TOO LATE FOR WHAT.......
....PLEASE TELL US........IS THERE A STORM COMING...........
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other issue besides cost I would think is group I-III oil is a byproduct of the refining process to make fuel,and now what to do with all that lube oil. It would be similar to how big industry gets rid of another industrial by- product..........FLUORIDE.
We are all using/burning some type of fuel that comes from crude oil,and the byproduct of all that refining of crude oil,would be mineral/lube oil as a byproduct.
Big oil is always going to push mineral oil vs synthetic,otherwise how would all that product(mineral oil)get used up.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/o...utlines/distill.html
Look how much mineral/lube oil is in this graph.
I would think that part of the graph(lube oil) is reserved for all the naysayers in this group against synthetic oil. They are the ones doing all those 3000 mile oil changes who drink all the mineral oil........Kool-Aid!!
I would think that big oil is totally against using 100% synthetic with extended oil changes,so big oil will always market 3000 mile changes using mineral oil,for more profit, and to "Get Rid" of the lube oil. Only suckers buy into that philosophy,not me!
I also think that automotive diesel technology has not really caught on(politically)in this country vs Europe for the same set of reasons. If more cars got 50 MPG using diesel..........what would big oil do with all that extra........gasoline. What would happen to the price of gasoline,and big oil profits!! It's all about supply and demand,and of course......BIG PROFIT.
When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
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The other issue besides cost I would think is group I-III oil is a byproduct of the refining process to make fuel,and now what to do with all that lube oil. It would be similar to how big industry gets rid of another industrial by- product..........FLUORIDE.
We are all using/burning some type of fuel that comes from crude oil,and the byproduct of all that refining of crude oil,would be mineral/lube oil as a byproduct.
Big oil is always going to push mineral oil vs synthetic,otherwise how would all that product(mineral oil)get used up.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/o...utlines/distill.html
Look how much mineral/lube oil is in this graph.
I would think that part of the graph(lube oil) is reserved for all the naysayers in this group against synthetic oil. They are the ones doing all those 3000 mile oil changes who drink all the mineral oil........Kool-Aid!!
I would think that big oil is totally against using 100% synthetic with extended oil changes,so big oil will always market 3000 mile changes using mineral oil,for more profit, and to "Get Rid" of the lube oil. Only suckers buy into that philosophy,not me!
I also think that automotive diesel technology has not really caught on(politically)in this country vs Europe for the same set of reasons. If more cars got 50 MPG using diesel..........what would big oil do with all that extra........gasoline. What would happen to the price of gasoline,and big oil profits!! It's all about supply and demand,and of course......BIG PROFIT.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
But AMSOIL had to prove it to the United States Patent and Trademark Office. And none of the oil companies refuted it then or today.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.
Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
[/QUOTE]quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
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I guess that would mean the other 89% percent are, "out of the loop" in the meantime. Too bad for them,but very good for big oil and all those profits.
Now we know why all those engines sludged up and all the subsequent lawsuits...........everyone(90%+) went to iffy lube and got the cheap bulk oil that is prone to sludge.
Some people(TRAJAN) think(say) that certain engines are prone to sludge,and/or are defective, when in reality,it's certain oils are prone to sludge and or defective.
That 11% percent really shows how clueless the public is. The very same public that just voted for Al Greene in SC.(lol)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...in-gre_n_613453.html
fficial&channel=s&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=w5IiTLepNsK78gayr4W7BQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q...um=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.
Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
Big Bear..........."Try wrapping your head around this one"
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Car talk quote
Unless they changed the rating procedure, the first number describes how the oil will behave (pour point & flow characteristics) at 0 degrees C. Meaning a 0W-20 will behave like a 0 weight oil at 0C, and a 5W-20 will behave like a 5W oil at 0C. That's all the first number is indicating.
0w is xxx cps @ -35F 5w is xxx cPs @ -30F - the limits of stress under the CCS (Cold Crank Simulator) are the same.
MRV rating is more indicative of the differences. Some people think that all 5w's are the same at sensible flows ..as though they get some "free ride" up to operating temperature. A heavier fluid is ALWAYS a heavier fluid. This just means it's pumpable and not spinning around in a gelatinous mass.
Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP
In other words, just because you see a 0w doesn't mean that it's not a heavier fluid at that temp in any rational sense. A 0w-20 could indeed be a heavier fluid than a comparative 5w-20 at any temp yet have the CCS and MRV spec's that the 5w-20 cannot meet. That's the case with Mobil's M1 0w-30 vs. 5w-30
It's an extremely hard concept to wrap around if you aren't some physics major. I'm not one. We're used to dealing with (what's called) Newtonian fluids. When those fluids are described in their non-Newtonian terms, it's not easy to understand.
Bear...........so why not use the 10W-30 in this case vs the 5w-20. The 5w-20 offers very little practical cold weather benefit if any. AT 35 below in Canada,any normal engine is plug in and heated.
http://www.pennzoil.com/docume...yntheticMotorOil.pdf
quote:Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP
Captain Kirk, which of these oil's would you want in your car if you were in Northern Minnesota during the month of January where overnite lows can dip well below 0 Degrees.
Is it better to have a lower number in the D-4684 and D-5293 tests.