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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.


Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals. Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.

If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.

No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals.
Which dealerships only recommend the API Certified XL oils and to follow the mfg OCI? Here is a quote from GM: “The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.
Why? AMSOIL has made these recommendations for 38 years without a problem

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.
Is this opinion or fact? If fact, please post your reference. AMSOIL says you can begin AMSOIL and extended oil changes immediately. This is what the Texas State Police do. No problems.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear: No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
The AMSOIL EaO oil filter traps more and smaller particles than other filters. Do you have a reference that those break in materials will not be trapped by the filter or cause a problem?
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf

Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.

Even Pennzoil Platinum made the list, does GM know something about Amsoil not being good for there engines, maybe they see something wrong with Amsoil and they certainly do not need anymore bad publicity or uneccessary recalls because it seems like Amsoil does not meet there standards for some reason.

I hope you are not going to come back with your Amsoil Warranty about motor oil's and them having to prove that Amsoil caused a problem.

Maybe Amsoil motor oil's are just outdated for today's GM Engines and do not offer the right protection.

I know, Amsoil doesn't want to pay for the certification, they'd rather reinvest the money in R&D, LOL. Odd considering how many GM products are on the road.
_________________________
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf

Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
AMSOIL doesn't believe in paying GM and others money and putting the time in to get on 100's of manufacturers lists. No manufacture requires an oil to be on the list in order to keep warranties intact. If GM required an oil on their list to be used, GM would have to provide it for free. Money and time wasted. But AMSOIL offers oils that meet GM's specs, and never had a warranty issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf

Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.

Even Pennzoil Platinum made the list, does GM know something about Amsoil not being good for there engines, maybe they see something wrong with Amsoil and they certainly do not need anymore bad publicity or uneccessary recalls because it seems like Amsoil does not meet there standards for some reason.

I hope you are not going to come back with your Amsoil Warranty about motor oil's and them having to prove that Amsoil caused a problem.

Maybe Amsoil motor oil's are just outdated for today's GM Engines and do not offer the right protection.

I know, Amsoil doesn't want to pay for the certification, they'd rather reinvest the money in R&D, LOL. Odd considering how many GM products are on the road.
_________________________


Better Amsoil than Swindle....er synlube. Even the OP, who attacked anyone who dared to question that crud, agrees.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf

Tim, how come Amsoil isn't on GM's approved list? Even there API certified XL Series? Even some of these small no name companies made it.
AMSOIL doesn't believe in paying GM and others money and putting the time in to get on 100's of manufacturers lists. No manufacture requires an oil to be on the list in order to keep warranties intact. If GM required an oil on their list to be used, GM would have to provide it for free. Money and time wasted. But AMSOIL offers oils that meet GM's specs, and never had a warranty issue.


The list of approved oils is a list of oils that meet all the specs. Nothing more or less.

They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.

I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
quote:


They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.

I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."


BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!

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quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:


The list of approved oils is a list of oils that meet all the specs. Nothing more or less.
You could also add that there are other oils that also meet the specs and list them on their labels, but have decided not to pay GM or spend the time to get on their list.

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
Here is what GM says about motor oil:

“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.

I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."


BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!

AD
Maybe. API has tested oils off the shelf that was API Certified, yet did not meet API spec. Valvoline and Castrol tested Mobil 1 5w30 off the shelf and it did not meet the API spec. Mobil 1 5w30 is on the GM approved list. Since it did not meet the API minimum spec, how could it meet the GM spec?

Again, here is what GM has to say about oil and warranty:

“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “

Personally, I'd rather us a better oil than one that barely meets API and the GM spec. So that is what I do.
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"

The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.

And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As seen in this thread from our resident troll. who hasn't popped in yet: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

I just love this line: "You do have the right to use any oil you choose, and if that oil is not what Ford specifies for warranty purposes, Ford has the legal right to give you the middle finger, which is exactly what they are doing"

The guy A: The wrong oil. B: Ignored the OCI.

And dnewton3's posts are very informative as well.


Interesting thread. No proof it ever happened. If it did, he did a lot of things wrong:

1. It seems he didn't get a letter from Ford Motor Company stating why his engine or the oil failed and that his warranty claim is denied.
2. He refused to name the oil he used.
3. He never got an analysis to prove coolant was in the oil.
4. He never contacted the oil company for assistance.
5. He likely used a wrong oil. And he did not follow the oil company's warranty requirements.
6. No oil company recommends an extended oil change interval for his truck due to known fuel dilution problems with this engine design.
7. He never got a UOA when he met Ford's recommended oil change interval.
Ford and AMSOIL list these oil recommendations for his truck:
2008 FORD TRUCKS F450 PICKUP 6.4L 8-cyl Engine Code [R] Turbo Diesel
LUBRICANTS & FLUIDS:
AMSOIL published Technical Service Bulletin MO-2009-10-01
"identifying" high fuel dilution in 2007-2010 light duty
diesel pickups (Dodge 6.7L, Ford 6.4L, and GM/GMC 6.6L LMM)
equipped with diesel particulate filters. Amsoil has revised
the drain interval recommendation for these specific
applications to the longest manufacturer-recommended
interval. Oil drain intervals can be extended further with
oil analysis.
Engine Oil
Grade 1......CJ-4
Synthetic 5W-40 Premium Diesel Oil (DEOQT)
Synthetic 15W-40 Diesel Oil (DMEQT)
32 to 122F......10W-30
Above -4F......5W-40
Above 68F......15W-40
Below 122F......0W-40, 0W-30
If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.
quote:

If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.


Agreed if a coolant leak was at fault Ford would pay, how could someone blame the oil?

Now if his Amsoil dealer sold him an extended drain oil and neglected to inform him about problems with his engine and extending drain intervals what happens? Amsoil won't pay, Ford won't pay, does he visit a court house with the rep for giving bad advise if the oil did in fact cause the failure? Lots of bad info is exchanged by misinformed or over eager sales people! It happens everyday.

AD
Worth looking at, here is a man that is well informed: Worth a paste: When two companies lock horns the end result is the customer is without a vehicle. Get a lawyer involved be prepared to pay.

It is always best to stick with the mfg suggested oils and change oil when the mfg suggests changing oil. They designed the engine.


Pasted from the link.

Gosh - here's a real life example of what I've often touted about the misconceptions of the M/M Warranty act. In a nutshell, I can summize.

If you use the prescribed fluids in the prescribed manner, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM to show that your actions somehow caused the failure of the product in question. If you have good, solid evidence to show that you followed warranty parameters, then most OEMs won't even argue with you. If you use alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance, then the burden of proof is upon you to show that your selections did not cause the failure. It's that simple on the surface; use their specs and they have to show it's not their fault - use your stuff and it's up to you to show it's not your fault.

-----------------------------------------

After reading this who needs the hassle if there is a problem?
Keep life simple take the path of least resistance.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:

If the cause was a coolant leak then Ford would pay. If the cause was the oil failed, he did not follow the warranty instructions of the oil, so his oil warranty would be denied.


Agreed if a coolant leak was at fault Ford would pay, how could someone blame the oil?

Now if his Amsoil dealer sold him an extended drain oil and neglected to inform him about problems with his engine and extending drain intervals what happens? Amsoil won't pay, Ford won't pay, does he visit a court house with the rep for giving bad advise if the oil did in fact cause the failure? Lots of bad info is exchanged by misinformed or over eager sales people! It happens everyday.

AD

1. AMSOIL might pay anyway if there was no coolant leak. They do pay out on good will every once in a while. It is good publicity.
2. I think if it went to court, it would be a difficult case to win. He would have to prove the Dealer said he could go 19,000 miles on the oil change for his vehicle.
3. The AMSOIL website clearly shows not to extend the oil change on his vehicle without a UOA due to known fuel dilution problems in his engine.
4. I think the bottle says something to that effect also.
5. The dealer would have no control on the oil change or use of the truck.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Gosh - here's a real life example of what I've often touted about the misconceptions of the M/M Warranty act. In a nutshell, I can summize.

If you use the prescribed fluids in the prescribed manner, then the burden of proof is upon the OEM to show that your actions somehow caused the failure of the product in question. If you have good, solid evidence to show that you followed warranty parameters, then most OEMs won't even argue with you. If you use alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance, then the burden of proof is upon you to show that your selections did not cause the failure. It's that simple on the surface; use their specs and they have to show it's not their fault - use your stuff and it's up to you to show it's not your fault.

-----------------------------------------


AD

You are right. That statement is a misconception of the M/M Warranty Act. Even if you use "alternative materials and/or methods for maintenance" the burden of proof is still upon the manufacturer that your selections caused the failure. They can easily prove it with oil and parts analysis.

Again GM says:

“The New Vehicle Warranty would not be void simply because an owner failed to use proper engine oils or did not perform maintenance at the prescribed intervals. Warranty applicability is contingent upon the cause of failure.”
Service Policies and Procedures Department,
General Motors Corporation “
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.

I will try to find out.
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.
Warrantys protect the owner from mfg faults. They also protect the mfg from owner stupidity.

It isn't the owner's fault if he follows the mfg dictates on oil type, viscosity, and oci, and his engine gives him the finger

It isn't the mfg's fault if the owner does as our turbo diesel owner does and the engine gives him the finger.

If you think the warranty is meaningless, that what the mfg has no clue as to what is best for the motor, go buy a new Mustang and put in SA oil. Or swill lube.

And see who has the last laugh.

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