A Ford dealership here in Ontario will install Amsoil engine oil in their "Fast Lane" facility.
I haven't yet inquired as to oil change intervals.
Does anyone know?
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AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
Sure they recommend their XL series API certified oils, and to follow the mfg OCI, not Amsoil extended drain intervals. Telling someone to use Amsoil for 15K without a change in a new $90,000 motorhome is poor advise.
If you have a new car, it is wise to follow the OCI in the owner's manual,because during the 1st 25,000 to 50,000 miles on a new engine is where you are going to have most of your break in wear.
No oil filter, not even the Amsoil EaO Oil Filter is going to trap all of that break in wear material, some of it is going to be dispersed and held by the motor oil.
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
BINGO, I thought I was the only person who realized that! Thanks Man. Bottom line pick an approved oil from GM's list if you own a GM. If you have a problem and follow GM's recommendations you'll be fine. Even cheap no-name oils are on the list, so price and availability is no problem!
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The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I will try to find out.
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
Tim, I have a question, lets say I by a brand new Ford Mustang and buy Amsoil 100% synthetic oil and I do yearly OCI's.
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles. I may not put 25,000 miles on in a year, maybe I might put on anywhere between 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year.
If I have a problem with something going wrong in my engine, it seems you said in that thread that Amsoil would fight for me in court, is there any money out of my pocket, and if Amsoil does battle it out with Ford in court, how long will this process take. I cannot drive my beloved Mustang becuase of whatever went wrong in my engine from doing extended drain intervals with Amsoil. Will this whole legal process take a couple of years, will this mean I will have to go out and buy another car since my Mustang is just sitting.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
I sent of a post to Anthony Polito of Polito Ford in Lindsay, Ontario. He's going to get back to me with info.
I have a feeling that Ford is not as generous as GM re OCIs.
My Manual sez 6 months or 8 000 kms. That's it.
If that's the case, XL, or next highest on the list is the oil of choice for me. If they stock it and the price differential is 1 or 2 bucks.
I'll let you know when I know.
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
From my understanding, you can purchase the Ford ESP after you purchase your car, you can purchase the Ford ESP right up until your 3 year 36 month warranty expires.
Do not get talked into anyone from Ford on buying any other extended warranty policy, the Ford ESP is the best, and all of the others are worthless, these other 3rd party warranties make you leave the car at the dealer and it can take weeks for a represenative to come out, with the Ford ESP, the service advisor just makes a quick call.
It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
Better yet, why don't you email AMSOIL technical with your warranty question, so you can get their answer back in writing. They are the one responsible for the warranty, not an AMSOIL Dealer. Then you can paste their answer here.
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL warranty: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is a copy of the AMSOIL claim procedure: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g40.pdf?zo=1181889 .
What were the problems?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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So one quote from a Honda service writer about one transmission outweighs dozens of testimonials on BITOG? I've looked in and posted 5 threads so far and haven't found any AMSOIL ATF issues yet. They all said the AMSOIL ATF was better than the Honda Z1. Please post the issues about people having issues with the AMSOIL ATF. Several mentioned they got the idea to switch from the Honda Z1 to AMSOIL from the rave reviews AMSOIL got in Honda forums.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
This took about 30 seconds to find. My shift is over so, cheers!
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http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2139556
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
Junk? What junk? I was trained as a chemist and research scientist. I don't know how the other AMSOIL rep was trained. We probably read similar AMSOIL and competitor technical information, motor oil publications, tribology books and testing.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
They both state their case. But the tie breaker is all the Honda customer posts that used both and prefer AMSOIL over the Honda Z1.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
I also can not find the Honda Z-1 Product Data Sheets that list product specifications, yet AMSOIL's is easily found. You have to wonder if it is because they don't want consumers to compare specifications and test results.
So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Why did he tell you that? Which vehicle tranny/rear end was this for? What mfg approved juice did you use?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
quote:Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
Tim, you seem to operate under the assumption that its all about basestock. Honda may utilize the stated base oil due to their inherent ability to better handle and additive package. Perhaps Honda has identified a specific friction modifier that wouldn't stay supspended in 100% synthetic basestock.
quote:So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
Maybe Amsoil needs a higher flashpoint to compensate for missing friction modifier. Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
John, I listed them previously. Here the are again:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .
And this at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1107830 .
And this BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1253297&page=2 .
The proof is in the pudding.
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
Agreed. AFAIK, as long as you follow the car mfg OCI you don't need a UOA or anything special. Just proof that you bought a mfg approved spec'd oil and the proper filter. Simple just follow directions, and enjoy your wheels.
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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Back in the Model T days that was probably true
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Only if an oil is determined to be the direct cause of an engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and getting your vehicle repaired. That's AMSOIL's pledge to you. AMSOIL Inc. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer (or snowmobile, boat, RV, motorcycle, etc...) or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem. AMSOIL will submit a claim with their insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and their insurance company would make certain your problem was resolved.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Tim, I got this from the Amsoil Site, so tell me how long will it take for this situation to get resolved, how long does the claim process with Amsoil's insurance take to get resolved.
Then we need to have some insurance adjuster come and check on things, this is sounding like a long process.
Then I suggest you talking with the AMSOIL Tech guy and ask him your questions.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
quote:Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.
I am not buying what Amsoil is saying here, I have seen to many lousy UOA's with Amsoil being spent between 13,000 and 17,000 miles. I think there have been some problems and Amsoil is just keeping quiet.
I know Amsoil makes some good products, but I have seen to many other companies say things that were really not true, so I am skeptical.
Everything Redline has told me has turned out to be true, I am just having doubts about Amsoil.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Nice example, and it shows how reps giving bad advise can cost the end user big money. UOA's are a waste was the advise given here. If one of those engines in the example you gave failed it would not be oil related, Amsoil would be off the hook. I'd grab the rep that told me UOA's were a waste, and see where that would get me in court. Most likely he'd swear he didn't discuss UOA's with you and it would be your word against his. That's why these boards are nice since we have the bad advise given in writing here. Amsoil obviously has no control over what these reps say. Good thing you had the brains to do a UOA.
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Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
So now it's Amsoil vs the poor guy who used it.
Amsoil isn't going to prove their oil is at fault. That's your job. Ford doesn't have to prove they're not at fault. You failed to follow the contract.
The vice is closing on your nuts, and it isn't your hand on the handle.
Follow the mfg warranty and stay out of the vice.
The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
I have about as much faith in Amsoil's Warranty as I do with what Tim has said in this thread, I'll pass on both and just use a cheaper oil that is just as good as Amsoil Motor Oil.
The warranty is a contract. You do not follow the obligations agreed to under the contract, you forfiet any benefit of said contract.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
The manufacturer is obligated only if you follow the warranty, and you get problems anyway.
All those class action suits against the auto makers proved that.
I'm not interested in what Amsoil says about it. I don't care if it's been in the oil business for 38 years.
Ford has been in business for 107 years. Never once filed bankruptcy. Didn't go for gov't bailouts. Never, as far as I've been able to find, has had any problems stemming from using mfg approved oils in any engine they've designed.
No company that makes oil is ever going to convince me that they know better than the engine makers.
Especially if they are too cheap to have said engine makers test their oil.
How about this. Link to cases where, oh, let's say, Ford, paid. Even though the car owner violated the warranty.
No Amsoil links.
Reason NOT to use Amsoil
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo Offline
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 39312
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.
_________________________
See PABLO at oilslubesfilters.com
I actually think it is nice to find out the other occupations that Amsoil Dealers had before they started selling Amsoil.
Just pay the $35.00 fee and you are an Amsoil Dealer, and then you can give advice on what lubricants people should or should not be using.
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.
I can let it go, maybe we need to here from the renegade Amsoil Salesman and see what he has too say.
To clarify, Pablo is not the renegade Amsoil salesman.
Sorry to chime in late, I have been away from the board for a while. If I was the OP, I would go with Motorcraft oil, either the blend or full syn. M/C filters and follow the recommended OCI while under warranty. Motorcraft oil (Conoco-Phillips), meets all of Ford's specs and there would be no-doubt if a warranty claim should arise. The dealer is probably selling Amsoil Xl at the usual stealership markup (75% or more) and will tell you to come back in 3K miles (maybe 5K). It is just more incentive to get people to come into the service bay. They may shoot themselves in the foot though, if they install non API/Ford Spec oil, especially when a warranty claim should come through the door.
Dave
Dave
Just wanted to say the same thing on this thread as the other.
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I have been reading these threads for a while now. I have to laugh at the guys spending money and driving themselves crazy over those 'flawed' UOA's.
I have never done a UOA,and have never worn out an engine,or failed inspection for emissions due to engine issues,including cars purchased with 100K,I drove to 200K.
You guys are obsessing way to much on those flawed 'UOA's.
I haved used/use Amsoil,and I have found it to be far superior to any store bought oil,period. Why?....engines were notably quieter, even the #1 "race proven" stuff can't compete.
My marine mechanic co-worker has also stated the same using amsoil. Again,engines were quieter,no lifter taps after hard runs.
All I see from the negative neds is,what if this,what if that. JUST CRAZY!!!
Well here is a what if scenario for you to ponder...........what if all those blown/sludged engines in all those class action lawsuits with documented proof of following the MFG had used..............AMSOIL, instead of the 'other cheap stuff'???? There's a what if to really ponder.
Amsoil was never involved in those suits or in those engines. There is your ultimate proof how good it is.
One issue I have is with certain makes and models installing "lawn mower sized" oil filters on mid-sized/full sized cars,that might be loading up too soon...or some engines having previous sludge before amsoil was installed giving blame to amsoil,where the previous oil was to blame.
I think the 'micro-sized' oil filters should have a lower mileage change interval,unless one can find a suitable upgrade for their application,such as the CM FILTER.
Just the facts..........not what if this,or that, nonsense. We are not in the 'TWILIGHT ZONE"...... let's stick to the historical FACTS AT HAND and keep it real!
I was in a garage today and looked over the oil filters they were stocking. I was surprised how small those filter are. As you say, lawnmower size filters. What gives?
I saw some that were either cartridges or were cut open. About the size of computer mouse. What gives? Is oil so good these days that filters are redundant?
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
More holes than the Titanic. If an engine starts knocking one could say it was mechanically deficient.
AD
Warranty FAIL if you use a quality K&N, Pure One, Bosch distance plus, or M-1 filter.
Dave
Good move Dave!
AD
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The warranty is easily found on the AMSOIL website. The process is clear and easy. No nightmare. No complaints from any consumer or government agency. Works as advertised.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, if you believe in this pathetic Warranty then wouldn't you have been the ONE to have posted it here 1st on Noria for us to read instead of me.
You make all these claims about Amsoil having a Warranty yet you never printed it out for us, if there is a problem that warranty is a NIGHTMARE for any Amsoil customer who has to go through that process, anyone reading this may not believe me, go read the AMSOIL WARRANTY again.
Now hunt around and check out the other motor oil warranties. Less coverage, more restrictions.
You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
quote:4. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC> premises due to improper handling, storageor through equipment deficiencies, including filtration, in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
Amsoil sure has an out with this clause, you might have to go after UPS or FedEx, the problem here is that you have already opened the bottles and thrown them away.
I do not need to look at the other Oil Companies Warranties, I have enough confidence with the oil that I use so I am not even worried about there Warranty.
AMSOIL has always said "Service Lifequote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
How about this Bear?
THE WARRANTY SHALL NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER THE FOLLOWING:
1. Amsoil lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, damage from casualty, shipment or accident, or equipment modification using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners
I guess the Doug Thorley headers I ordered and the Wolf Racing Cams would void the warranty or not be covered. Man, that is a big hole in coverage of the warranty? Hmm, my transmission fluid may not be covered, as I have a MicroGard filter. That clause basically states all OEM equipment is null and void. I don't think Nissan is an approved Amsoil Aftermarket Supplier.
Dave
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:
• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.
*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer
(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.
(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils."
If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
Tim, we do not care about other motor oil warranties, we do not need them compared to Amsoil's SHAMEFUL Warranty.
It would be nice if you wrote your own words instead of copying stuff out of Amsoil's SalesBook.
You could have just said, if you do not use an OEM Part then your warranty is not covered.
Here are some areas where you can get in trouble with the Amsoil Warranty:
1) Non- OEM Air Filter
2) Non- OEM Spark Plugs
3) Non- OEM PCV Valve
4) Non-OEM Exhaust
We do not need to call the Amsoil Tech Line, we already have there Warranty that if it were a CHEESE it would be Swiss Cheese since it has many holes in it.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records? Very few. How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history? Very few, give me a break. In the prefect world people keep detailed logs, maybe 1 in a 1000 as a guess. If they have records do they have actual register tapes for every repair going back 5 years, 8 years, if they did the work themselves? That 1 in a 1000 probably becomes 1 in 2000. Anyone can create a repair log in an Excel program, now is the info valid? That is another story, and something Amsoil can easily challenge. Lets get real Tim.
If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Those were my own words. Not copied from AMSOIL's SalesBook, whatever that is.quote:If you have warranty questions specific to modifications, you can call AMSOIL tech support to see if the warranty will cover you. No different than any other motor oil company warranty, except AMSOIL has the longest extended oil change interval warranty and covering more parts and labor.
It would be nice if you wrote your own words instead of copying stuff out of Amsoil's SalesBook.Why would I say that? If the parts meet OEM specs and is not the cause, then there is no problem. If the part caused the problem, it would be the parts company's concern.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: You could have just said, if you do not use an OEM Part then your warranty is not covered.Not really, unless the part does not meet the OEM specifications and caused the problem.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Here are some areas where you can get in trouble with the Amsoil Warranty:
1) Non- OEM Air Filter
2) Non- OEM Spark Plugs
3) Non- OEM PCV Valve
4) Non-OEM Exhaust
We do not need to call the Amsoil Tech Line, we already have there Warranty that if it were a CHEESE it would be Swiss Cheese since it has many holes in it.
quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I am not buying anything you have said here, the reason nobody has tried to put Amsoil out of business is because they do not sell much oil, you can prove me wrong by showing us some real data on Amsoil's sales figures as opposed to your line of Amsoil doubling in sales every year.
Why don't you get one of the guys up at Amsoil Corporate to drop by here, we are still waiting for the guy that went over 900,000 miles using Amsoil Motor Oil to sho up and answer our questions.
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?
I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I don't know. I always do.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You can ask for them from the previous owner, you can have the dealer look up the service records for the car. You don't really buy a used car without asking for maintenance and repair records, do you?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
AMSOIL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Tim how does the owner of a preowned car prove this to Amsoil?
Amsoil has so many outs with this Warranty.
How many people % wise selling cars keep accurate records?I don't know. I would never buy a used car without service records.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: How many used cars on lots bought at auction have a service history?
Your answer is " I don't know " is that because the ANSWER was not in your magic Amsoil Sales Book.
I bought a used car back in 1985 with no service records and I am still driving it today.
Pennzoil tried to put AMSOIL out of business in the 70's because of the letter "Z" in the original AMZOIL spelling. I guess they couldn't come up with anything else. Castrol tried to put much smaller Royal Purple out of business due to false advertising. I'm sure big oil would like to put AMSOIL out of business, but they can't.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:If it had that many holes in it, then the competitors, consumer and government agencies would have put AMSOIL out of business a long time ago. So far, I don't see where a single complaint has been registered. If it were CHEESE, it would be the best AMERICAN CHEESE on the market today.
I am not buying anything you have said here, the reason nobody has tried to put Amsoil out of business is because they do not sell much oil, you can prove me wrong by showing us some real data on Amsoil's sales figures as opposed to your line of Amsoil doubling in sales every year.
Where did I say AMSOIL's sales is doubling every year?
Mobil has to make public disclosure since they are a publicly traded stock and have to report and pay their stockholders. AMSOIL is the worlds largest privately owned synthetic oil company, and as such, they may not be required to do so.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
However, Motor Oil sales figures are available from NOLN . Here are some:
http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf .
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...news/actionnews.aspx See page 10.
AMSOIL started with 1 dealer. Now they have 50,000 to 70,000.
AMSOIL started blending,packaging and warehousing in a 400 square foot garage. Now they blend and package in 9 acres under one roof. You can learn more at https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2593.pdf . And have 13 other warehouses. And distribute in 26 countries.
They have registered over 1.9 million accounts.
Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: Why don't you get one of the guys up at Amsoil Corporate to drop by here, we are still waiting for the guy that went over 900,000 miles using Amsoil Motor Oil to sho up and answer our questions.
quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
4% Market Share, that does not impress me.
I am sure the Delivery Van Driver is on another vacation.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Feel free to invite them. AMSOIL Corporate may be too busy due to record sales with the rest of the industry down 20% last year. The delivery van driver might be busy driving that same van.
4% Market Share, that does not impress me.
How about Havoline's 2%, or Quaker States 4%, or Castrol's 7%?
I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I never made that claim.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Why can't we find Amsoil's sales figures on the Net but we can find Mobil's, what is Big Al hiding from us.
To be fair, until Amsoil offers stock to the public, thus having to file with the SEC, you won't.
And, to continue along that line, Tim should not be claiming the company doubling in sales year after year unless he can prove it.
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:No problem. Here's a towel.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Oops. Sorry. Raw egg on my face.
Now that made me chuckle.
Shell has owned the Pennzoil and QuakerState brands for around 10 years now in an attempt to increase market share. All 3 of their brands are down in market share since then. AMSOIL has record sales this year. The motor oil market overall is down 20% this year. AMSOIL has doubled in sales in the past 4 years. Looks like motorists are leaving the other brands more and using AMSOIL.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Thu June 03 2010 03:15 PM
Tim Vipond
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Sun June 06 2010 07:05 AM Hide Post
Again, no problems reported other than a small number of vehicles had a light come in a few extreme cases. No damage has been reported. If damage occurs due to the filters, AMSOIL pays for repairs.
Here is some data comparing AMSOIL's market share to the competitors:
"The 2009 Fast Lube Operators Survey shows AMSOIL is
among the top-selling synthetic motor oils in the fast lube
business. In fact, 4 percent of operators listed AMSOIL as
their best-selling synthetic motor oil. The AMSOIL percent-
ages were 2 percent in 2007 and 3 percent in 2008, indicat-
ing the demand for AMSOIL synthetic motor oil has doubled
in only two years."
A bit more than a flea as you stated, don't you agree?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Sun June 06 2010 12:57 PM
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing, maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
If you don't want to look at AMSOIL data, then I suggest not looking at it. As a retired Shell Oil scientist, I find test data very important. I think others do as well. The motor oil industry as a whole was down 20% last year, yet AMSOIL had record sales, so they must be doing something right. I read all the time about other motor oil companies laying off employees, raising prices, refineries shutting down, selling off product lines, leaving markets, etc., but AMSOIL is growing by leaps and bounds. If I could find undisputed independent test data showing other products superior to AMSOIL with a better warranty and history, then I would sell those.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Thu June 03 2010 03:15 PM
Tim Vipond
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Sun June 06 2010 07:05 AM Hide Post
Again, no problems reported other than a small number of vehicles had a light come in a few extreme cases. No damage has been reported. If damage occurs due to the filters, AMSOIL pays for repairs.
Here is some data comparing AMSOIL's market share to the competitors:
"The 2009 Fast Lube Operators Survey shows AMSOIL is
among the top-selling synthetic motor oils in the fast lube
business. In fact, 4 percent of operators listed AMSOIL as
their best-selling synthetic motor oil. The AMSOIL percent-
ages were 2 percent in 2007 and 3 percent in 2008, indicat-
ing the demand for AMSOIL synthetic motor oil has doubled
in only two years."
A bit more than a flea as you stated, don't you agree?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim Vipond, Sun June 06 2010 12:57 PM
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing, maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL. I pointed it out when some asserted that AMSOIL's sales are only a "flea on an elephants arse", or that their competition sells more in a day than AMSOIL does in a year, or that AMSOIL isn't on anybody's radar, etc.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, do you have any proof of what you are saying with these sales increases or is the info proprietary, I just don't get why you are pointing out these sales figures, if I found out that Pennzoil Platinum doubled in sales I would really not care, I use the oil because I like it, sales figures mean nothing to me.
that data came from NOLN.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: This Fast Lube Operators Survey sounds like a Bogus Survey to me, pure Amscam Marketing,
I've never seen Redline, Synlube or RLI Biosyn at a Jiffy Lube, but have seen AMSOIL, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 there. Not bad considering Jiffy Lube is owned by Shell Oil, and are contractually obligated to sell a high percentage (80 or 90%) of Pennzoil/QuakerState/Rotella products.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear: maybe I will go to Jiffy Lube and ask them to put in Amsoil Motor Oil, I am sure its on the shelf next to Redline Motor Oil and on the shelf above there is Synlube and Mobil 1
I will bet that the bottom shelf will contain Royal Purple and RLI Biosyn.
quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
Tim, if you want to quote numbers you really need to give us some real concrete proof, doesn't Amsoil print out there sales figures every year, something like:
2009= $100,000,000
2008= $75,000,000
2007= $50,000,000
This motor oil sales for your competitors that you state is down 20% really means nothing to me.
Exxon/Mobil Sales could be up 90% next year and Pennzoil's or shall we say Shell's oil sales could be down 90%, I do not follow the Herd Mentality, I will continue using Pennzoil Platinum.
I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Some of the data came from NOLN (National Oil and Lube News), some from Lube Report, Lubes 'n Greases, and some from AMSOIL.
Tim, if you want to quote numbers you really need to give us some real concrete proof, doesn't Amsoil print out there sales figures every year, something like:
2009= $100,000,000
2008= $75,000,000
2007= $50,000,000
quote:I've never seen anything like that before from AMSOIL. I don't know of any family owned private business that does. Only market shares from trade magazines, such as the ones from NOLAN that I've shared.
The Magazine stuff is not going to cut it, I believe you said Amsoil doubled there sales in 4 years, doubled from what number.
I would think that Amsoil Salesman would be interested in what the company is selling every year, or how much the company is making.
Lets say Exxon/ Mobil sold $300,000,000 last year and the year before it sold $270,000,000 worth of product, it would be nice for you guys, meaning the Amsoil Salesman too see how Amsoil is doing each year.
Market shares just seem misleading too me, you did show a graph where Mobil had like 58% market share and Amsoil had 4% market share, I am looking for what it means in dollars and cents.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Market shares just seem misleading too me, you did show a graph where Mobil had like 58% market share and Amsoil had 4% market share, I am looking for what it means in dollars and cents.
Bear...........Why would you even care about that info unless you were planning on buying the company,or loaning them money. Are you an investment banker,or a venture capitalist. Thinking about an IPO? What gives?
And yet, people have such a hard time understanding this.
Well, some people anyway.
Well, some people anyway.
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Do what you want. Hypothesize all you want. But you haven't proven a thing. You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL. I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years, millions of vehicles, billions of miles. The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
And of course, if any oil fails, even while following the vehicle manufacturers guidelines, then your "scenario" would still apply. Vehicle manufacture warranties only cover defective parts, not defective oil. So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty. Some are only for 4,000 miles/4 months and cover only 15 parts. Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
And of course, if any oil fails, even while following the vehicle manufacturers guidelines, then your "scenario" would still apply. Vehicle manufacture warranties only cover defective parts, not defective oil. So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty. Some are only for 4,000 miles/4 months and cover only 15 parts. Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
Quote:
Do what you want.
We all Will.
Quote:
But you haven't proven a thing.
Neither have you.
Quote:
You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL
The records are sealed.
Quote:
I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years
Your just not telling us.
Quote:
millions of vehicles
Can you prove that with DOCUMENTATION, sure sounds like a Sales Pitch.
Quote:
The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Quote:
So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty
I already read Amsoil's Warranty, and its worthless, I could care less about Pennzoil's Warranty since the oil is fine for me.
Quote:
Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
My uncle has a 1979 Pontiac with 220,000 miles that he has done yearly OCI's on the cheapest oil he can get his hands on, so he has done fine with his cheap oil that I would guess has absolutely no kind of WARRANTY.
Do what you want.
We all Will.
Quote:
But you haven't proven a thing.
Neither have you.
Quote:
You have yet to show a real life drawn out court battle over AMSOIL
The records are sealed.
Quote:
I know of no cases where anyone had a warranty problem using extended oil changes with an AMSOIL recommended fluid for 38 years
Your just not telling us.
Quote:
millions of vehicles
Can you prove that with DOCUMENTATION, sure sounds like a Sales Pitch.
Quote:
The proof is in the pudding (and the oil).
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Quote:
So it is best to pick an oil with the best warranty
I already read Amsoil's Warranty, and its worthless, I could care less about Pennzoil's Warranty since the oil is fine for me.
Quote:
Some oils don't seem to offer any written warranty. Your choice...
My uncle has a 1979 Pontiac with 220,000 miles that he has done yearly OCI's on the cheapest oil he can get his hands on, so he has done fine with his cheap oil that I would guess has absolutely no kind of WARRANTY.
Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your the Amsoil Salesman, you PROVE me WRONG.
Your statements. Provide the proof to back them up. I can't prove something that didn't happen.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Prove it.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
The records are sealed.
Proof? Alchemy?quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Amsoil sure turns into PUDDING after 17,000 miles.
Your the Amsoil Salesman, you PROVE me WRONG.
can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
A few years ago in my area, an amsoil dealer did 25000-30000 mile oci's on his taurus. It started running badly, so he brought it in to the dealer with around 92000 miles. Apparently, the cam had been ground down. It was a 92 taurus with a 3.8L v6. From that experience, I would not really recommend running the oil that long. Maybe, if it got new filters and a fresh quart every 3-4K. It is an awesome oil, from what I hear, huh, but any oil for 25000 or 30000...maybe not such a good idea.
: can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
TomJones76-
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
A few years ago in my area, an amsoil dealer did 25000-30000 mile oci's on his taurus. It started running badly, so he brought it in to the dealer with around 92000 miles. Apparently, the cam had been ground down. It was a 92 taurus with a 3.8L v6. From that experience, I would not really recommend running the oil that long. Maybe, if it got new filters and a fresh quart every 3-4K. It is an awesome oil, from what I hear, huh, but any oil for 25000 or 30000...maybe not such a good idea.
: can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
DSteven Offline
Registered: 04/09/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Minnesota-South Dakota
TomJones76-
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
Point well taken Kirk, but if you use a mfg approved oil, and follow the intervals you'll be fine. That is unless there is a design flaw with the engine, in which case that would be a mfg issue they'd have to make good one. Just be able to show proof you've maintained the car as they outlined, using an approved oil and filter.
Even Amsoil had sludge issues in certain vehicles and suggests you follow mfg OCI's. These were design flaws and not the fault of the oil. I don't want to get the Amsoil boys all fired up again!
Even Amsoil wants no part of extended drains in some of these sludge prone engines.
AD
AD
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
3. Change PCV valve yourself = Not all models even have one now days. You also failed to mention to only use OEM valve if changed,and never use aftermarket valve. You could void the warranty with trajans advice.
Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!
I think Trajan gave some good advise. I only used OEM PCV valves, they never gave me problems. My dad told me aftermarket can cause oil use, they did for him, changing back to OEM easily fixed it. I'll take his word.
It's just further proof, if needed, that he doesn't read his own links. It's his own link that says change the PCV valve yourself.
It's also further proof that he cherry picks his own links.
Got to love it. He posts a link, then attacks his own link........
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"
From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
Same place he gets all his other claims that he has yet to back. The air.
quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
quote:Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.
quote:Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
I think we would like to see these reports too!
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.
Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!
NUFF SAID,
AD
Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?
For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....
http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=
quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>
In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!
The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.
Instead of trolling me over a PCV change, why don't you read your own link all the way through for once, instead of cherry picking?
look for the line "If you're on a budget" in the link *you* provided.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112
IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324
IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Typed Drawing
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
quote:quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.
quote:
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.
I think we would like to see these reports too!
You going to show us the numbers Tim, I also looked at Amsoil's numbers on the ASTM D-5293 test and they did not look that good.
I also looked at the 40 Degree Celcius Numbers and I was not impressed.
You seem to like to knock Pennzoil but they did show numbers for the D-4684 test, Castrol Edge also showed numbers for this test, Amsoil does not have any numbers for this test meaning they do not show it on there site.
I have a feeling that since Amsoil is super thick they probably knew they would do terrible with the D-4684 test.
How come Amsoil 0W-20 is thicker than Amsoil 5W-20 XL, that Amsoil 0W-20 is almost a 0W-30 and some would argue that it is almost a 5W-20
Your Amsoil 0W-30 is thicker than Castrol Edge's 5W-30 and its very close to Pennzoil Platinums numbers for there 5W-30 motor oil.
Why is the 5W-30 XL thinner than the 5W-30 100% synthetic oil that Amsoil sells.
The Viscosity Indexes on your oil's looks pathetic, no wonder your oil's thicken up overtime.
Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.
Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112
IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324
IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Typed Drawing
Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
TOO LATE BIG BEAR,TOO LATE FOR WHAT.......
....PLEASE TELL US........IS THERE A STORM COMING...........
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other issue besides cost I would think is group I-III oil is a byproduct of the refining process to make fuel,and now what to do with all that lube oil. It would be similar to how big industry gets rid of another industrial by- product..........FLUORIDE.
We are all using/burning some type of fuel that comes from crude oil,and the byproduct of all that refining of crude oil,would be mineral/lube oil as a byproduct.
Big oil is always going to push mineral oil vs synthetic,otherwise how would all that product(mineral oil)get used up.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/o...utlines/distill.html
Look how much mineral/lube oil is in this graph.
I would think that part of the graph(lube oil) is reserved for all the naysayers in this group against synthetic oil. They are the ones doing all those 3000 mile oil changes who drink all the mineral oil........Kool-Aid!!
I would think that big oil is totally against using 100% synthetic with extended oil changes,so big oil will always market 3000 mile changes using mineral oil,for more profit, and to "Get Rid" of the lube oil. Only suckers buy into that philosophy,not me!
I also think that automotive diesel technology has not really caught on(politically)in this country vs Europe for the same set of reasons. If more cars got 50 MPG using diesel..........what would big oil do with all that extra........gasoline. What would happen to the price of gasoline,and big oil profits!! It's all about supply and demand,and of course......BIG PROFIT.
When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other issue besides cost I would think is group I-III oil is a byproduct of the refining process to make fuel,and now what to do with all that lube oil. It would be similar to how big industry gets rid of another industrial by- product..........FLUORIDE.
We are all using/burning some type of fuel that comes from crude oil,and the byproduct of all that refining of crude oil,would be mineral/lube oil as a byproduct.
Big oil is always going to push mineral oil vs synthetic,otherwise how would all that product(mineral oil)get used up.
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/o...utlines/distill.html
Look how much mineral/lube oil is in this graph.
I would think that part of the graph(lube oil) is reserved for all the naysayers in this group against synthetic oil. They are the ones doing all those 3000 mile oil changes who drink all the mineral oil........Kool-Aid!!
I would think that big oil is totally against using 100% synthetic with extended oil changes,so big oil will always market 3000 mile changes using mineral oil,for more profit, and to "Get Rid" of the lube oil. Only suckers buy into that philosophy,not me!
I also think that automotive diesel technology has not really caught on(politically)in this country vs Europe for the same set of reasons. If more cars got 50 MPG using diesel..........what would big oil do with all that extra........gasoline. What would happen to the price of gasoline,and big oil profits!! It's all about supply and demand,and of course......BIG PROFIT.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.
But AMSOIL had to prove it to the United States Patent and Trademark Office. And none of the oil companies refuted it then or today.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.
Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
[/QUOTE]quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
------------------------------------------
I guess that would mean the other 89% percent are, "out of the loop" in the meantime. Too bad for them,but very good for big oil and all those profits.
Now we know why all those engines sludged up and all the subsequent lawsuits...........everyone(90%+) went to iffy lube and got the cheap bulk oil that is prone to sludge.
Some people(TRAJAN) think(say) that certain engines are prone to sludge,and/or are defective, when in reality,it's certain oils are prone to sludge and or defective.
That 11% percent really shows how clueless the public is. The very same public that just voted for Al Greene in SC.(lol)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...in-gre_n_613453.html
fficial&channel=s&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=w5IiTLepNsK78gayr4W7BQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q...um=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.
Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
Big Bear..........."Try wrapping your head around this one"
------------------------------------------------
Car talk quote
Unless they changed the rating procedure, the first number describes how the oil will behave (pour point & flow characteristics) at 0 degrees C. Meaning a 0W-20 will behave like a 0 weight oil at 0C, and a 5W-20 will behave like a 5W oil at 0C. That's all the first number is indicating.
0w is xxx cps @ -35F 5w is xxx cPs @ -30F - the limits of stress under the CCS (Cold Crank Simulator) are the same.
MRV rating is more indicative of the differences. Some people think that all 5w's are the same at sensible flows ..as though they get some "free ride" up to operating temperature. A heavier fluid is ALWAYS a heavier fluid. This just means it's pumpable and not spinning around in a gelatinous mass.
Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP
In other words, just because you see a 0w doesn't mean that it's not a heavier fluid at that temp in any rational sense. A 0w-20 could indeed be a heavier fluid than a comparative 5w-20 at any temp yet have the CCS and MRV spec's that the 5w-20 cannot meet. That's the case with Mobil's M1 0w-30 vs. 5w-30
It's an extremely hard concept to wrap around if you aren't some physics major. I'm not one. We're used to dealing with (what's called) Newtonian fluids. When those fluids are described in their non-Newtonian terms, it's not easy to understand.
Bear...........so why not use the 10W-30 in this case vs the 5w-20. The 5w-20 offers very little practical cold weather benefit if any. AT 35 below in Canada,any normal engine is plug in and heated.
http://www.pennzoil.com/docume...yntheticMotorOil.pdf
quote:Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP
Captain Kirk, which of these oil's would you want in your car if you were in Northern Minnesota during the month of January where overnite lows can dip well below 0 Degrees.
Is it better to have a lower number in the D-4684 and D-5293 tests.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's
MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)
Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)
Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP
Captain Kirk, which of these oil's would you want in your car if you were in Northern Minnesota during the month of January where overnite lows can dip well below 0 Degrees.
Is it better to have a lower number in the D-4684 and D-5293 tests.
Now you know the answer to that. Simlube isn't on the list.
which Cold Cranking numbers are you talking about? Pennzoil 0w20 CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35),AMSOIL 0w20 is only 4069. Pennzoil 0w20 is much thicker. No thanks.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Which D-4684 test results are you talking about? Please post the link. This test measures wax crystallization. Since the AMSOIL full chemical synthetic oils contain no wax, this would not be a valid test. This is why Pour Point and Cold Cranking values are used.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293
You have to show me some data first. Again, AMSOIL meets all SAE viscosity standards they say they do and the oil has not failed in 38 years. Doesn't get any better than that.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Bear. I see you live in NY. UPSTATE? How cold does it get,and what is a typical cold start for you. Do you heat the oil pan in the winter? Have you ever had cold start issues with any particular oil.
I once ran ran Amsoil 20w-50 in a 1986 regal with a 5.0 olds v8 and it started no problem at around 0 F many times. M1 10-30 would allow valve train rattle at 40 F.
CD-2 detergent allowed the M1 to go another 2k with no rattle/tap for a total of 4k. Amsoil never needed CD-2.
Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.
Bear. I see you live in NY. UPSTATE? How cold does it get,and what is a typical cold start for you. Do you heat the oil pan in the winter? Have you ever had cold start issues with any particular oil.
I once ran ran Amsoil 20w-50 in a 1986 regal with a 5.0 olds v8 and it started no problem at around 0 F many times. M1 10-30 would allow valve train rattle at 40 F.
CD-2 detergent allowed the M1 to go another 2k with no rattle/tap for a total of 4k. Amsoil never needed CD-2.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Now you know the answer to that. Simlube isn't on the list.
Trajan..........What is Simlube?
///// 2004 BMW Z4 3.0i sport/premium/convienence pkg. GC 0w30 or M1 0w-40. (TRAJANS FANTASY CAR/OIL)
I, on the other hand,unlike Trajan,use a product called Synlube lube-4-life.
I just drove the Mustang 4.0 V6 down the NJ parkway doing between 80-90 at 95F for a very extended run. I WOT'D the car at 83 and the V6 still had punch to push me back in the seat.......USING THE SYNLUBE LUBE-4-LIFE MOTOR OIL. It now has on the oil about 13K. Remember......the last car was traded with around 60k on said oil...............and never any issues.
The Car uses ZERO OIL.
Instead of spending time changing the oil,I utilized my free time and saved $$$, to go for a drive,dine in Cape May and check out the beach!
Did the same hard fast run back home. Zero oil use,plenty of punch even at over 80 in a V6!
IN SUM,TRAJAN............
Who cares about lists...........I go by P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E....
I don't need a stinking.........list!!!
GIRLIE MEN NEED LISTS!!!!!
TRAJAN........DO YOU NEED A LIST?
Captain Kirk
In a pissing contest, position is everything. Under warranty, the auto maker has position
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
In a pissing contest, position is everything. Under warranty, the auto maker has position
Trajan.........And your position would be........SEATED!!!!!!
Like I said earlier.........GIRLIE MAN!!!!
quote:which Cold Cranking numbers are you talking about? Pennzoil 0w20 CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35),AMSOIL 0w20 is only 4069. Pennzoil 0w20 is much thicker. No thanks.
Amsoil 0W-20 4069 @ -35
Castrol Edge 0W-20 3860 @ -35
Tim, I do not want to hear nor do I care about Castrol's Warranty or Amsoil's Warranty, nor do I care about Amsoil's 38 year history, I am living in the present not the past.
Until your beloved Amsoil 0W-20 beats Castrol Edge in the ASTM D-5293 test, which is not going to happen anytime soon, then I am saying NO THANKS to Amsoil 0W-20 and your annoying sales tactics.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:which Cold Cranking numbers are you talking about? Pennzoil 0w20 CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35),AMSOIL 0w20 is only 4069. Pennzoil 0w20 is much thicker. No thanks.
Amsoil 0W-20 4069 @ -35
Castrol Edge 0W-20 3860 @ -35
Tim, I do not want to hear nor do I care about Castrol's Warranty or Amsoil's Warranty, nor do I care about Amsoil's 38 year history, I am living in the present not the past.
Until your beloved Amsoil 0W-20 beats Castrol Edge in the ASTM D-5293 test, which is not going to happen anytime soon, then I am saying NO THANKS to Amsoil 0W-20 and your annoying sales tactics.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx
Why is castrol better.....'overall',than Amsoil.
Also,3800+- vs 4000+- at -35.......Meaningless...both will flow very good at that temp I would think
quote:Why is castrol better.....'overall',than Amsoil.
Captain Kirk, it has a better 40 Degree Celcius and 100 degree Celcius Number, I just want a thin oil for the WINTERTIME, and I just feel that Castrol Edge 0W-20 will serve my engine better than Amsoil 0W-20
And I'm saying NO THANKS to BP CASTROL for the largest environmental disaster in the United States. You really want to support a company like BP CASTROL with that environmental and safety record? I thought you were an American....quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:which Cold Cranking numbers are you talking about? Pennzoil 0w20 CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35),AMSOIL 0w20 is only 4069. Pennzoil 0w20 is much thicker. No thanks.
Amsoil 0W-20 4069 @ -35
Castrol Edge 0W-20 3860 @ -35
Tim, I do not want to hear nor do I care about Castrol's Warranty or Amsoil's Warranty, nor do I care about Amsoil's 38 year history, I am living in the present not the past.
Until your beloved Amsoil 0W-20 beats Castrol Edge in the ASTM D-5293 test, which is not going to happen anytime soon, then I am saying NO THANKS to Amsoil 0W-20 and your annoying sales tactics.
I just feel that AMSOIL will serve our country better than BP/Castrol who can now claim the worst environmental disaster in the history of our country, plus killed dozens of Americans. I can't believe any American would want to support such a company...quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Why is castrol better.....'overall',than Amsoil.
Captain Kirk, it has a better 40 Degree Celcius and 100 degree Celcius Number, I just want a thin oil for the WINTERTIME, and I just feel that Castrol Edge 0W-20 will serve my engine better than Amsoil 0W-20
I am glad that somebody finally noticed and admitted that the AMSOIL trademark slogan is just that and nothing more no proof of anything, but continuation of the deceptive practices that AMSOIL has always used, going back to the myth of military service by it's founder - who was nothing more than a mechanic on base in Alaska.
As for volume and trade information if you buy ExxonMobil stock you get annual report - you can find their data there.
If you are member of the Lubricant Industry you get trade publications with all the data, and unlike some of you I do have a respect for Copyright, and since those publications are not FREE or available on Web to unregistered users, likewise I will not "steal" and reprint their data.
But I will give you the link to ordering their guide
http://www.lngpublishing.com/BaseStockGuide/index.cfm
Hint: No company can "sell" more product (like Mobil 1 with PAO) than is their production capacity, unless of course what they sell is NOT what they claim it to be - i.e. really dilluted with other stuf. Only 5 companies in the world produce and sell commercially PAO. It has NEVER been priced by the Gallon, the price was and always is quoted in pounds (or in Europe in Kg).
As for volume and trade information if you buy ExxonMobil stock you get annual report - you can find their data there.
If you are member of the Lubricant Industry you get trade publications with all the data, and unlike some of you I do have a respect for Copyright, and since those publications are not FREE or available on Web to unregistered users, likewise I will not "steal" and reprint their data.
But I will give you the link to ordering their guide
http://www.lngpublishing.com/BaseStockGuide/index.cfm
Hint: No company can "sell" more product (like Mobil 1 with PAO) than is their production capacity, unless of course what they sell is NOT what they claim it to be - i.e. really dilluted with other stuf. Only 5 companies in the world produce and sell commercially PAO. It has NEVER been priced by the Gallon, the price was and always is quoted in pounds (or in Europe in Kg).
Nobody has admitted that. Certainly not AMSOIL, nor the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Nor disputed by any oil company, government agency, or consumer agency. If you feel that strongly, take it up with the US government. But since they already investigated the claims thoroughly, I don't think you will have any luck.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
I am glad that somebody finally noticed and admitted that the AMSOIL trademark slogan is just that and nothing more no proof of anything, but continuation of the deceptive practices that AMSOIL has always used, going back to the myth of military service by it's founder - who was nothing more than a mechanic on base in Alaska.
. Please post. I already posted Exxon data that conflicts with what you said.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:As for volume and trade information if you buy ExxonMobil stock you get annual report - you can find theri data there.
The information I published was FREE on the internet. Please provide specific report names, page numbers and proof of Copyright. You already gave some data, with no proof of anything. Go to any retail store, dealership, oil change place and you will find they sell much more than the 2% synthetic oil that you claim.quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:If you are member of the Lubricant Industry you get trade publications with all the data, and unlike some of you I do have a respect for Copyright, and since tose publications are not FREE or available on Web to unregistered users, likewise I will not "steal" and reprint their data.
quote:Tim Vipond
Please just stick with:
Natural Organic soil supplements for your yard and garden
At least there you can grow two crops next to each other in the same garden and have "proof" that it really works in just one growing season.
Yet I have not seen a single AMSOIL dealer do that YET, why not ???
Hey just ask Al to send me a certified copy of his discharge papers, that is all the proof I need.
Till then I will go by what I already know and have known for years...
Short of that I just want to understand how someone not in the service for admitedly years was in that same time promoted from "pilot" to "squadron commander".
All you have to do is check the "history" AMSOIL published 26 years and 32 years ago - even those claims DO not match, but then COLONEL DRAKE was no COLONEL either, may by that is why this was "perpetrated".
Pouring ETO-85 into just another bottle (from the metal can it used to come in) is not exactly formulating the first Synthetic Motor Oil, especially since the can lid has "NOT FOR USE AS MOTOR LUBRICANT" on it from OEM.
But hey if you have worn out old PINTO, not much more damage can happen by using it especially in Alaska.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
The information I published was FREE on the internet.
LOL
Ah so now any FREE Information on Internet becomes the new gospel.
"Well the Plaedians have just Landed using the LUXOR beam as a target destination, so I have to go, as I am a member of the extraterrestial welcoming commitee that really has only one objective to sperad unlimited gambling into the unknown universe!"
Must be true I found it on the Internet toooooo..........
quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
The information I published was FREE on the internet.
LOL
Ah so now any FREE Information on Internet becomes the new gospel.
Must be true I found it on the Internet toooooo..........
Just like that synlube site. Just like some of your sychophants.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:And I'm saying NO THANKS to BP CASTROL for the largest environmental disaster in the United States. You really want to support a company like BP CASTROL with that environmental and safety record? I thought you were an American....quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:which Cold Cranking numbers are you talking about? Pennzoil 0w20 CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35),AMSOIL 0w20 is only 4069. Pennzoil 0w20 is much thicker. No thanks.
Amsoil 0W-20 4069 @ -35
Castrol Edge 0W-20 3860 @ -35
Tim, I do not want to hear nor do I care about Castrol's Warranty or Amsoil's Warranty, nor do I care about Amsoil's 38 year history, I am living in the present not the past.
Until your beloved Amsoil 0W-20 beats Castrol Edge in the ASTM D-5293 test, which is not going to happen anytime soon, then I am saying NO THANKS to Amsoil 0W-20 and your annoying sales tactics.
And just what does that have to do with oil quality?
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I just feel that AMSOIL will serve our country better than BP/Castrol who can now claim the worst environmental disaster in the history of our country, plus killed dozens of Americans. I can't believe any American would want to support such a company...quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Why is castrol better.....'overall',than Amsoil.
Captain Kirk, it has a better 40 Degree Celcius and 100 degree Celcius Number, I just want a thin oil for the WINTERTIME, and I just feel that Castrol Edge 0W-20 will serve my engine better than Amsoil 0W-20
Is this what it has come to? Hysterics?
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Tim, lets look at some numbers of Redline 0W-20 versus Amsoil 0W-20
Pour Point for Amsoil 0W-20 is -65 Degrees Fahrenheit or -54 Degrees Celcius
Pour Point for Redline 0W-20 is -76 Degrees Fahrenheit or -60 Degrees Celcius
Lets look at some 40 Degree Celcius Numbers which is about 100 degrees Fahrenheit
Amsoil 0W-20 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 49.1
Redline 0W-20 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 43
What are these numbers telling me, since most of the wear in an engine is during the 1st 20 minutes of driving or maybe until the car is fully warmed up, since Redline 0W-20 has a lower Pour Point it will flow faster on startup, and during the warm up cycle since it has a lower 40 Degree Celcius Number it will flow faster and lubricate the parts in my engine quicker than Amsoil 0W-20
Tim, the Wear Statement I made, came from Gary Allan who is an Amsoil Salesman like yourself.
I almost forgot to mention the HTHS Number, that's High Temperature High Shear.
Amsoil 0W-20 has a HTHS Number of 2.8
Redline 0W-20 has a HTHS Number of 2.7
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.
Tim, lets look at some numbers of Redline 0W-20 versus Amsoil 0W-20
Pour Point for Amsoil 0W-20 is -65 Degrees Fahrenheit or -54 Degrees Celcius
Pour Point for Redline 0W-20 is -76 Degrees Fahrenheit or -60 Degrees Celcius
Lets look at some 40 Degree Celcius Numbers which is about 100 degrees Fahrenheit
Amsoil 0W-20 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 49.1
Redline 0W-20 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 43
What are these numbers telling me, since most of the wear in an engine is during the 1st 20 minutes of driving or maybe until the car is fully warmed up, since Redline 0W-20 has a lower Pour Point it will flow faster on startup, and during the warm up cycle since it has a lower 40 Degree Celcius Number it will flow faster and lubricate the parts in my engine quicker than Amsoil 0W-20
Tim, the Wear Statement I made, came from Gary Allan who is an Amsoil Salesman like yourself.
I almost forgot to mention the HTHS Number, that's High Temperature High Shear.
Amsoil 0W-20 has a HTHS Number of 2.8
Redline 0W-20 has a HTHS Number of 2.7
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:I just feel that AMSOIL will serve our country better than BP/Castrol who can now claim the worst environmental disaster in the history of our country, plus killed dozens of Americans. I can't believe any American would want to support such a company...quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Why is castrol better.....'overall',than Amsoil.
Captain Kirk, it has a better 40 Degree Celcius and 100 degree Celcius Number, I just want a thin oil for the WINTERTIME, and I just feel that Castrol Edge 0W-20 will serve my engine better than Amsoil 0W-20
Is this what it has come to? Hysterics?
It seems so. Not to get into a pissing contest, the event in the Gulf is a tragic disaster. IIRC Exxon did a number in Alaska, with a drunken Super Tanker Captain in charge. I bet Amsoil does lots of business with XOM, so lets not throw stones in glass houses.
AD
quote:It seems so. Not to get into a pissing contest, the event in the Gulf is a tragic disaster. IIRC Exxon did a number in Alaska, with a drunken Super Tanker Captain in charge. I bet Amsoil does lots of business with XOM, so lets not throw stones in glass houses.
AD
AD, Good Point, of course Exxon did not own Mobil at the time, but accidents do happen and when they do that should not mean that we stop buying oil from the company that caused the accident.
Exxon stayed in business, so that should tell us something.
Tim only brought up the BP thing becuase that is all that he could think of, he will say anything to sell Amsoil, his Sales Pitch is so pathetic that he now has to bring up an unfortunate disaster in order to push his agenda, real low, we will see how much lower this Amsoil Salesman will go.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:It seems so. Not to get into a pissing contest, the event in the Gulf is a tragic disaster. IIRC Exxon did a number in Alaska, with a drunken Super Tanker Captain in charge. I bet Amsoil does lots of business with XOM, so lets not throw stones in glass houses.
AD
AD, Good Point, of course Exxon did not own Mobil at the time, but accidents do happen and when they do that should not mean that we stop buying oil from the company that caused the accident.
Exxon stayed in business, so that should tell us something.
Tim only brought up the BP thing becuase that is all that he could think of, he will say anything to sell Amsoil, his Sales Pitch is so pathetic that he now has to bring up an unfortunate disaster in order to push his agenda, real low, we will see how much lower this Amsoil Salesman will go.
If he is smart, he won't go down that road. Anyway, I'm off to buy some BP gas. $2.87 for 93 octane when Shell is $3.09 is a damn good deal.
If any troll has a problem with it, Americans work at that gas station.
To paraphrase a commercial, "Think with your wallet, Jimmy!!"
quote:6 7 8 9 10
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I really hope no one goes down that road, but the cheap shot sort of got me. A lot of us think with our wallets, especially in lousy times like these.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:6 7 8 9 10
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I really hope no one goes down that road, but the cheap shot sort of got me. A lot of us think with our wallets, especially in lousy times like these.
AD
His cheap shot got to me as well. Uncalled for, and waaay beyond the scope of the thread.
Desperate people do desperate things.
Trajan:
Good choice
quote:2004 BMW Z4 3.0i sport/premium/convienence pkg.
Really good Synlube oil
Good choice
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:6 7 8 9 10
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I really hope no one goes down that road, but the cheap shot sort of got me. A lot of us think with our wallets, especially in lousy times like these.
AD
His cheap shot got to me as well. Uncalled for, and waaay beyond the scope of the thread.
Desperate people do desperate things.
Yep!
I'm starting to like Edge, nice info Big Bear. Better cold pumping and taking less time to get to operating temps is a good thing.
AD
Amsoil, Inc. is a corporation based in Superior, Wisconsin that manufactures synthetic lubricants and filters. They were the first to manufacture a full synthetic motor oil, transmission fluid, and differential gear lube for automobiles. Due to this, their slogan is "The First in Synthetics."
History
Amsoil, Inc. was founded by Col. Al Amatuzio (USAF Retired) in 1972. Prior to founding Amsoil, Amatuzio was a fighter pilot, line maintenance officer, and squadron commander during the Cold War era. Having to use synthetic lubricants in the jet engines he maintained, he became aware of the significant benefits of using synthetic instead of petroleum-based oil.
History
Amsoil, Inc. was founded by Col. Al Amatuzio (USAF Retired) in 1972. Prior to founding Amsoil, Amatuzio was a fighter pilot, line maintenance officer, and squadron commander during the Cold War era. Having to use synthetic lubricants in the jet engines he maintained, he became aware of the significant benefits of using synthetic instead of petroleum-based oil.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Miro, how can we find out the dirty truth about Big Al.
Is there anything else you can tell us.
You really want to rely on *this* guy for information?
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Miro, how can we find out the dirty truth about Big Al.
Is there anything else you can tell us.
You really want to rely on *this* guy for information?
He was right about your(trajan) short lived PEP job!
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Miro, how can we find out the dirty truth about Big Al.
Is there anything else you can tell us.
You really want to rely on *this* guy for information?
He was right about your(trajan) short lived PEP job!
Oh? Right about a non-exsistent job? Can you prove that?
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Miro, how can we find out the dirty truth about Big Al.
Is there anything else you can tell us.
You really want to rely on *this* guy for information?
He was right about your(trajan) short lived PEP job!
Oh? Right about a non-exsistent job? Can you prove that?
1.TRAJAN............YOU HAVE FAILED TO DISPROVE IT NOW GOING ON SEVERAL MONTHS,SO IT MUST BE TRUE.
2.YOU NEVER HAVE STATED YOUR PROFESSION ON THAT NOTE,SO IT MUST BE TRUE.
3.YOU HAVE WAAAAAYYYY TOO MUCH FREE TIME,SO IT MUST BE TRUE.
4.YOU HATE SYNLUBE BECAUSE IT BROUGHT YOU DOWN WITH YOUR CAREER...WAY DOWN....SO IT ABSOLUTELY MUST BE TRUE!!
FOUR STRIKES...............AND YOU'RE OOOOUUUUUTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!
Not my place to prove what doesn't exsist. Well, I did prove that your buddy inhaliburton is an out and out liar. But that was child's play.
Also showed that your idol's so called operation in Mercury NV isn't there.
By your logic, even though we all know it, the accusations made on a certain website that your idol is a liar and a scam artist ia true. None of you have proved otherwise.
If it makes you feel better to think I ever worked for Shell, do so with my blessing. Not really my place to deprive you of your delusions.
It's one thing to prove that a deliberate lie by your cohort did not exsist. See the thread does not, and never did, exsist.
I don't have to prove I never worked for Shell, You know what they say about proving a negative. And what's more, I don't have to.
Perhaps, whenever you manage to pull your lips off ypur idol's crack, you'll ask Spock about the logic of accepting lies that you can't possibly prove are not.
Let's see the proof. Not insinuations or that other nonsense you lap up because they're spoken by a scammer. But real, verifiable, unvarnished, proof.
Since it doesn't exsist, because it never happenned, you have your work cut out for you.
I suppose, also following your logic, that since he never denied it, he really did murder his parents.
Good job. You're a groupie to a double murderer.
Also showed that your idol's so called operation in Mercury NV isn't there.
By your logic, even though we all know it, the accusations made on a certain website that your idol is a liar and a scam artist ia true. None of you have proved otherwise.
If it makes you feel better to think I ever worked for Shell, do so with my blessing. Not really my place to deprive you of your delusions.
It's one thing to prove that a deliberate lie by your cohort did not exsist. See the thread does not, and never did, exsist.
I don't have to prove I never worked for Shell, You know what they say about proving a negative. And what's more, I don't have to.
Perhaps, whenever you manage to pull your lips off ypur idol's crack, you'll ask Spock about the logic of accepting lies that you can't possibly prove are not.
Let's see the proof. Not insinuations or that other nonsense you lap up because they're spoken by a scammer. But real, verifiable, unvarnished, proof.
Since it doesn't exsist, because it never happenned, you have your work cut out for you.
I suppose, also following your logic, that since he never denied it, he really did murder his parents.
Good job. You're a groupie to a double murderer.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Not my place to prove what doesn't exsist. Well, I did prove that your buddy inhaliburton is an out and out liar. But that was child's play.
Also showed that your idol's so called operation in Mercury NV isn't there.
By your logic, even though we all know it, the accusations made on a certain website that your idol is a liar and a scam artist ia true. None of you have proved otherwise.
If it makes you feel better to think I ever worked for Shell, do so with my blessing. Not really my place to deprive you of your delusions.
It's one thing to prove that a deliberate lie by your cohort did not exsist. See the thread does not, and never did, exsist.
I don't have to prove I never worked for Shell, You know what they say about proving a negative. And what's more, I don't have to.
Perhaps, whenever you manage to pull your lips off ypur idol's crack, you'll ask Spock about the logic of accepting lies that you can't possibly prove are not.
Let's see the proof. Not insinuations or that other nonsense you lap up because they're spoken by a scammer. But real, verifiable, unvarnished, proof.
Since it doesn't exsist, because it never happenned, you have your work cut out for you.
I suppose, also following your logic, that since he never denied it, he really did murder his parents.
Good job. You're a groupie to a double murderer.
--------------------------------------------
TRAJAN..............YOU'RE RAMBLING AND INCOHERENT,AGAIN!!! NOW YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE WITH THE GROUPIE REMARK!!!!!!!
Seems to be like pulling a lever,or pushing a button when I mention the "PEP" incident.
Almost everyone on this forum has stated their chosen profession........EXCEPT YOU..........THE EX PEP SALESMAN WHO JUST COMMITTED AN ACT OF MORAL TURPITUDE......AGAIN!!!!!!!!
The only liar.......is you Trajan,not inHaliburton. You have now gone below just Lying at this point...... WAY,WAY BELOW!!!!
Wow if Big Al lied about being a fighter pilot that is BIG. I'd love to see some proof myself, nothing worse than a liar of that magnitude. That would take one awesome set of Brass Ballz, I don't think he'd lie like that.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Now you know the answer to that. Simlube isn't on the list.
Still stinging from that Shell/PEP whipping you took from Miro, eh Trajan? You can't stop mentioning Synlube. Very telling.
Well?
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Miro, how can we find out the dirty truth about Big Al.
Is there anything else you can tell us.
You really want to rely on *this* guy for information?
He's got more on the ball than you will ever have, Trajan. You're the master of the cheap shot. The sign of a bitter man.
By the way, where's that car that your neighbour owns that sludged up from using Synlube?
See what I mean? Trajan the liar.
Well, boy?
"We receive about 20 miscellaneous vehicle warranty claims per year," reported Albert’s son, Alan Amatuzio, executive vice president and chief operating officer. "We investigate each one comprehensively, examine maintenance records, mileage, type of service and repair invoices. We conduct phone interviews and hire independent expert investigators and engineers to review failed parts and write an Investigative Findings Report documenting our results and send it to the claimant. "Only in rare instances when we cannot find an explanation for the problem, even though the lubricant is not to blame, do we accept a claim.
Guys, I found this on an Amsoil Dealers Site, it seems to me that anyone who submits a Warranty Claim to Amsoil is going to get an in depth investigation, it does not sound like Amsoil is going to just hand you the money right away to get your engine fixed.
1) Investigate each one COMPREHENSIVELY
2) Examine Maintenance Records
3) Mileage
4) Type of Service
5) Repairs
6) Phone Interviews
7) Hire Independent expert investigators and engineers to review failed parts and write an Investigative Findings Report DOCUMENTING our results and send it to the claimant.
These words are from the owner's son who is an executive vice president and chief operating officer.
Tim, our Amsoil Pusher on here said a Warranty Claim would be cleared up very quickly, from what Alan Amatuzio has said it just does not seem like what Tim is saying is really TRUTHFUL.
Guys, I found this on an Amsoil Dealers Site, it seems to me that anyone who submits a Warranty Claim to Amsoil is going to get an in depth investigation, it does not sound like Amsoil is going to just hand you the money right away to get your engine fixed.
1) Investigate each one COMPREHENSIVELY
2) Examine Maintenance Records
3) Mileage
4) Type of Service
5) Repairs
6) Phone Interviews
7) Hire Independent expert investigators and engineers to review failed parts and write an Investigative Findings Report DOCUMENTING our results and send it to the claimant.
These words are from the owner's son who is an executive vice president and chief operating officer.
Tim, our Amsoil Pusher on here said a Warranty Claim would be cleared up very quickly, from what Alan Amatuzio has said it just does not seem like what Tim is saying is really TRUTHFUL.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
--------------------------------------------
TRAJAN..............YOU'RE RAMBLING AND INCOHERENT,AGAIN!!! NOW YOU'VE CROSSED THE LINE WITH THE GROUPIE REMARK!!!!!!!
Seems to be like pulling a lever,or pushing a button when I mention the "PEP" incident.
Almost everyone on this forum has stated their chosen profession........EXCEPT YOU..........THE EX PEP SALESMAN WHO JUST COMMITTED AN ACT OF MORAL TURPITUDE......AGAIN!!!!!!!!
The only liar.......is you Trajan,not inHaliburton. You have now gone below just Lying at this point...... WAY,WAY BELOW!!!!
Capt. Kirk, Trajan's a bitter person. Can't blame him, though. The Shell/PEP thing did him in. His wiser-than-him wife took off when she found out he's a crooked thief and a loser. Let him wallow in his hatred for Miro, Synlube, you and me. If he hasn't already, he'll have ulcers.
He calls me a liar. Tell me Trajan, when did I tell a lie?
Talking abour liars, where's that engine belonging to a neighbour down the street with the sludged motor from using Synlube? Can you show us a pic?
I think we all know who the liar is, don't we, Trajan?
Well, boy?
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Wow if Big Al lied about being a fighter pilot that is BIG. I'd love to see some proof myself, nothing worse than a liar of that magnitude. That would take one awesome set of Brass Ballz, I don't think he'd lie like that.
AD
http://www.archives.gov/vetera...cation-airforce.html
Thanks,
I'll let someone else search.
AD
I'll let someone else search.
AD
Personal attacks and innuendo don't help anyone make their case.
I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.
All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.
All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
I'm starting to like Edge, nice info Big Bear. Better cold pumping and taking less time to get to operating temps is a good thing.
AD
US Navy. Helping keep us safe.
AD, I am running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 in my car during the warm weather, but I plan on running Castrol Edge 0W-20 from October until late April since that is when I see the coldest temps in my area. I usually drive the car about 10 to 20 miles and then shut it off for a certain number of hours and then drive back home. My type of driving is not best for an oil like Amsoil, nor is my driving style good for extended drains with Amsoil.
If I lived near the Interstate and drove 50 miles up the Highway and my work was a mile or so off the interstate, and then I drove 50 miles back home, this would be 100 miles each day, so 500 miles a week times 50 weeks and I would have about 25,000 miles a year, so Amsoil would be great in this situation, I am thinking very few people drive there cars like this.
I have heard that about 85% of your wear is during startup or until your engine gets up to operating temps, so if that is the case, and especially during cold weather I want a thinner oil, in the late spring and summer I am not as concerned about the starting temp of the oil because it is probably at a starting temp like 70 degrees or so and it will flow very well.
AD
US Navy. Helping keep us safe.
AD, I am running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 in my car during the warm weather, but I plan on running Castrol Edge 0W-20 from October until late April since that is when I see the coldest temps in my area. I usually drive the car about 10 to 20 miles and then shut it off for a certain number of hours and then drive back home. My type of driving is not best for an oil like Amsoil, nor is my driving style good for extended drains with Amsoil.
If I lived near the Interstate and drove 50 miles up the Highway and my work was a mile or so off the interstate, and then I drove 50 miles back home, this would be 100 miles each day, so 500 miles a week times 50 weeks and I would have about 25,000 miles a year, so Amsoil would be great in this situation, I am thinking very few people drive there cars like this.
I have heard that about 85% of your wear is during startup or until your engine gets up to operating temps, so if that is the case, and especially during cold weather I want a thinner oil, in the late spring and summer I am not as concerned about the starting temp of the oil because it is probably at a starting temp like 70 degrees or so and it will flow very well.
To me the Edge just makes more sense. It pumps better in a 0w20 than just about any oil I've seen, the 40*C numbers are the best I've seen as well. Since I only drive about 100 miles a week now, I feel it will protect better for my short hopp'in than any 20 grade oil there is. If I thought something was better I'd use it.
If I were driving under the conditions your talking about it would still be a good deal. It pumps better when cold, and gets to its desired viscosity faster, win win in my book.
Hey Bear, did you check out big Al on that link? I can't do it from here for some reason.
AD
If I were driving under the conditions your talking about it would still be a good deal. It pumps better when cold, and gets to its desired viscosity faster, win win in my book.
Hey Bear, did you check out big Al on that link? I can't do it from here for some reason.
AD
How to Submit Requests:
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You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.
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The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.
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Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.
AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.
* Send by mail
* Send by fax
Today we must continue to receive requests, dated and with a handwritten signature, either by mail or by fax only. This is because Federal law [5 USC 552a(b)] requires that all requests for records and information be submitted in writing. Each request must be signed and dated.
You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.
* Send by Mail
Our mailing address is:
National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100
* Send by Fax
Our fax number for requesting military records is 314-801-9195.
The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.
Order Processing Time
Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.
AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.
Its probably to late. This has deteriorated into a troll pit. Noria can do better than this.quote:Originally posted by RobertC:
Personal attacks and innuendo don't help anyone make their case.
I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.
All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
quote:They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
No. They don't. If you're using the spec'd fluids under the prescribed intervals, the manufacture has no recourse in a lubrication related failure.
If a lubrication related failure occurs, whether spec'd fluids are use or not, the lubricant has to be the reason for the failure to deny warranty.
I'm sure you can see the difference between what I stated and what you did.
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?
Please lets not hear it never happened in 38 years, or the MM act that's getting old. The flawed filters is proof the company is far from perfect, but then no oil company is.
Please note I'm looking for an answer, not trying to fire Tim up and start another 50 page Amsoil sales pitch thread. You seem to have a level head in your replies.
Thanks
AD
Please lets not hear it never happened in 38 years, or the MM act that's getting old. The flawed filters is proof the company is far from perfect, but then no oil company is.
Please note I'm looking for an answer, not trying to fire Tim up and start another 50 page Amsoil sales pitch thread. You seem to have a level head in your replies.
Thanks
AD
I agree.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?
Thanks
AD
Ford still has to prove that the lube was responsible for the failure. It would be the same with Ford saying 10k miles is NG. Ford themselves spec's all kinds of viscosity fluids for the same engines worldwide and even dealers don't adhere to all of Ford's recommendations for 5w-20 oil.
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.
AD
I read the whole thread and that was the moral of the story. Interesting that this guy would never admit that he was using amsoil. A few posters on the other thread guessed it and he just admitted it here. The navistar diesels that ford has been using are like A curse. No sense at all using the wrong product AND not changing the oil in a defective engine.
FRom Here:
6.0 PowerStroke bulletins
6.0 Oil Recommendations:
Some trucks with the 6.0 may exhibit hard starting, rough running and lack of power in cold temperatures, particularly on a cold start. This may be due to the oil being to thick for the operating conditions. Ford is recommending to use the following oils for the listed operating temperature.
SAE 15W-40 is the preferred oil above 30 degrees, but it is acceptable for use down to 10 degrees, and is recommended for towing down to this temperature.
SAE 10W-30 is the preferred weight between -10 to 30 degrees.
SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40 is acceptable for use below 30 degrees, and 0W-30 is acceptable below zero.
(All temperatures are in Fahrenheit.)
The oil used should meet Ford's specification of WSS-M2C171-D or API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4/SL or DHD-1. CH-4 is acceptable for use if CI-4 PLUS is not available. TSB #05-16-6.
Keep in mind that CI-4 oil is designed for the increased soot contamination and higher coolant temperatures of cooled EGR systems on a diesel; CH-4 is not.
Nowhere does the TSB mention synthetic versus conventional oil recomendations or ranges.
Ford has not released anything recommending NOT to use a specific brand of oil.
Reply With Quote
30 weight is pretty thin for Florida.
6.0 PowerStroke bulletins
6.0 Oil Recommendations:
Some trucks with the 6.0 may exhibit hard starting, rough running and lack of power in cold temperatures, particularly on a cold start. This may be due to the oil being to thick for the operating conditions. Ford is recommending to use the following oils for the listed operating temperature.
SAE 15W-40 is the preferred oil above 30 degrees, but it is acceptable for use down to 10 degrees, and is recommended for towing down to this temperature.
SAE 10W-30 is the preferred weight between -10 to 30 degrees.
SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40 is acceptable for use below 30 degrees, and 0W-30 is acceptable below zero.
(All temperatures are in Fahrenheit.)
The oil used should meet Ford's specification of WSS-M2C171-D or API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4/SL or DHD-1. CH-4 is acceptable for use if CI-4 PLUS is not available. TSB #05-16-6.
Keep in mind that CI-4 oil is designed for the increased soot contamination and higher coolant temperatures of cooled EGR systems on a diesel; CH-4 is not.
Nowhere does the TSB mention synthetic versus conventional oil recomendations or ranges.
Ford has not released anything recommending NOT to use a specific brand of oil.
Reply With Quote
30 weight is pretty thin for Florida.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
Ad said.....
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
------------------------------------------------------
Well Ad,you should have read the thread before you posted. Amsoil,nor any lube company wouldn't need to "look long and hard" as you say for a way out............the coolant leak says it all.
The massive coolant leak into the oil is the issue,not the oil. The MFG is the one always looking for a way out,in this case ford.
One of those few times we agree Kirk. In this case the coolant leak is pretty obvious. Take away the coolant leak and the oil company would be looking long and hard for a way out.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
One of those few times we agree Kirk. In this case the coolant leak is pretty obvious. Take away the coolant leak and the oil company would be looking long and hard for a way out.
AD
Impossible for the oil company to look long and hard if you follow their directions.
If you change the oil using the 'severe service' category,what could they find.
If the engine has issues....thus far historically..........
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ENGINE ISSUES UNRELATED TO THE SYNTHETIC OIL USED,IN THIS CASE...AMSOIL VS FORD.
Even when cheap oil was used that actually was causing sludge build up across almost all makes and models,the mfg's were the ones who got sued/blamed,when it should have been the oil companies that got sued(big oil in this case).
No one ever really gets that except me?
Motorists were basically running garbage for lube,unless they were using 100% synthetic PAO,or something very close.
That is the reason for GM creating a dexos standard,and also the European oil standards that practically mock the API standards.
We almost agree again. I've always followed SS recommendations. Being born and raised in NY everything we owned fell into SS categories. Just ride on the LIE, GCP, or Southern State on a beach day during rush hour and you'll see why. Forget the commute into NYC. The odds of us having an oil related engine failure are slim to none.
My comments are hypothetical, but could become reality. IMO any oil company will look for an out, Amsoil is no exception, and has one other strike against it, the API starburst for their high end products.
My father taught me to follow recommendations, use what the mfg, "suggests", it will keep me out of trouble. Why hassle the MM act? The only one who benefits from that is a lawyer. Risk to reward ratio tells me to follow recommendations. Now if I was making a living selling Amsoil, I'd have a different view. I don't sell it and won't sell it.
BTW the tone of this recent discussion is refreshing!
AD
My comments are hypothetical, but could become reality. IMO any oil company will look for an out, Amsoil is no exception, and has one other strike against it, the API starburst for their high end products.
My father taught me to follow recommendations, use what the mfg, "suggests", it will keep me out of trouble. Why hassle the MM act? The only one who benefits from that is a lawyer. Risk to reward ratio tells me to follow recommendations. Now if I was making a living selling Amsoil, I'd have a different view. I don't sell it and won't sell it.
BTW the tone of this recent discussion is refreshing!
AD
Thanks for the reply. The truck I serviced was not mine. We used the AMSOIL 5W30 HDD oil and this was a full year before AMSOIL TSB all the DPF engines. At the time of failure there was no recommendation for the 6.4 oil change interval. Like there is now.
I do not own the truck, I told the oner to collect UOA but he did not, the truck failed,he called me after the truck was at the dealer, so I had not to work with when I heard what happened.
I did collect a UOA at the dealer and did find coolant in the oil with caused the jelly sludge with made the turbo fail.
those are the facts, the oil analysis came out good excpt for the coolant contamination.
the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...
Javier
I do not own the truck, I told the oner to collect UOA but he did not, the truck failed,he called me after the truck was at the dealer, so I had not to work with when I heard what happened.
I did collect a UOA at the dealer and did find coolant in the oil with caused the jelly sludge with made the turbo fail.
those are the facts, the oil analysis came out good excpt for the coolant contamination.
the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...
Javier
quote:More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.
Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.
Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.
Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.
Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?
AD
If a motorist is using basic mineral oil//5w-20,like above....I will say.....change it every 3k,at the dealer with a coupon,and save the receipts.........because you might just need them using cheap bulk oil.
The above repair was 10k,of which Kathy paid as far as we know....2k.
Thanks my question is if a 20 grade oil is spec'd and used and the engine fails because the oil was too "thin" "CAFE" as you said who eats the repair? Not in Kathy's case just a general question?
AD
AD
I would think a good car maker like Ford would have done lots of testing, I mean a ton of it. If the oil thinned out of grade causing damage, how could the engine be at fault? Assuming in my example there was no fuel dilution. I'd think the oil company would be at fault. Like it or not I think thin is in, and in the not so distant future you'll see 0w10, and people saying they'll use 0W20 in its place because 0W10 is too thin?
Happy 4th to all,
AD
Happy 4th to all,
AD
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajan said.........
[QUOTE]If I were Kathy,I would have drawn an oil sample first,and never have told ford the exact OCI. She did get off the hook 80% though in the end.
Hey Captain, is it possible that "Cathy Covington" got screwed by the "stealership" and paid the big bucks, is because she's a female? Naaa...
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Isn't it amazing the attitude of those 'ASE' certified mechanics. Some(not all),think they are 'Gods' once they get certified.
You are right-on about many mechanics. I've got one living next door who never fails to mention how clever he is when he replaces a defective/warn part in his driveway for peanuts when we, their customers, pay out hundred of green backs. These guys hate spending money on their rides but expect us to pay through the nose. They must be laughing their collective guts out while our cars are on the hoist as they fix our rides for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. It's the Service Departments that keep stealerships from going TU, not the showrooms.
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
The v-10 has a different crankshaft design from the v-8s. It uses a split throw on the rod journals for even firing(bad idea)and is drilled differently for rod bearing oiling. A fully groved main bearing would provide a 100% increase in oil volume to the rod bearing,but they dont use one.They could do alot better. There are alot of racers using 0-20 and producing over 1000 horse power with the 4 valve v8 without bearing problems. Most would probably like to use heavier oil but pressure to the valve train is not regulated.This will cause the hydraulic cam followers to pump up in the early 4 valve heads and hold the valve open if thick oil is used. That would be bad. Thin oil bleeds off faster and allows this engine to rev to over 9000 rpm,without bearing problems. Later high performance modular 4 valve engines use a miniature hydraulic cam follower with a higher bleed rate that allows heavier oil to be used. They spec 5w-50 in that engine.I dont know if the bearing clearance have changed for the supercharged engines , but all modular ford are a select bearing fit engine,meaning they fit each engine with the exact size bearing required to get the clearances perfect. 5w-40 full synthetic would be my choice for A motorhome with a v-10.
Bk,Thanks for all the Great tech info about the ford v-10 engine.
I agree with the 5w-40 choice(devlac?) in a motorhome,and I doubt Kathy,or anyone else would have ever revved the engine to 9k causing any issues.
I agree they will never see racing RPMs. My car wont either. But what they will do is load their motorhome up with every thing they can pack and then maybe hook a small car/boat or what ever to the back and head out. When they get to the hills we have around the area I live in nor cal they will plant their foot on the floor and hold it there. The highways around here are 6% at least and some are 10%. The pull can last for an hour depending on your destination. This is where they build heat,heat and more heat.Its 100 plus in the summer and depending on the direction you are traveling ,there can be a prevailing tail wind stealing radiator efficiency.Brutal conditions and still some wont let up.The lucky ones boil over the radiator stop get towed what or ever. Some just burn flat to the earth right where they stop. I used to pass 1 or 2 per week in the summer when I was hauling lumber out of southern oregon into northern california. Certainly not all ford v-10s but you can see how even with very few miles these things take a real ass kicking.
Here is a picture of A motor on a test stand doing WOT testing.note the exaust manifolds. Ive actually seen this on an old gas powered dump truck behind the front tire going down the road in morning sunlight. brutal conditions.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Here is a picture of A motor on a test stand doing WOT testing.note the exaust manifolds. Ive actually seen this on an old gas powered dump truck behind the front tire going down the road in morning sunlight. brutal conditions.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Those are some pretty brutal conditions. I read somewhere that the 20 grade oils were better at cooling than the thicker oils because they flow better and carry heat away faster. Any truth to that?
What oil was in that Stang?
AD
What oil was in that Stang?
AD
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
I have read that the base oil is what affects heat carrying capacity. I dont know which is better or for what reasons though. The light oils pump more efficiently and superior volume may carry away more heat. I have no way to test this so its guessing. The 5.0 engine in the picture is using 5w-20! The testing procedure detailed in this link is tuff. I am to stubborn to believe that 5w-20 protects BETTER than a heavier oil. But it does pass their tests. http://www.mustang50magazine.c...te_engine/index.html
Thanks, if a 20 wt oil can stand up to that heat, if my engine calls for it I'm using it. No point in second guessing the car maker. CAFE or not, the 2 grade looks solid to me!
AD
AD
The new 5.0 Mustang calls for a 5w-20. I wouldn't second guess them.
If 5W20 was in fact used in that engine in the picture, I have no reason to think otherwise. I'd say it can handle heat, and quite well at that. Bottom line is stick to what is spec'd for the engine, if they give choices match the oil to the climate and the job planned for the engine.
AD
AD
MC is a good oil. Grp III/II blend with a good additive package. Ford put this oil through very extensive testing and they are very happy with it.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
5w-20 vs 30.........quote....
"5W-20 is used PURELY for gas milage for Ford. The Ford Explorer calls for 5w-20 yet the Mountaineer that uses the EXACT same motor, all parts are interchangable and has the same engine code, calls for 5w-30. My S10 uses 5w-30 or 10w-30 I've gone to amsoil15W-40 desiel oil with out a problem. The reason for doing so was for higher oil pressure during cold days."
AFAIK Ford doesn't recommend 5W20 in their 4.0L Explorer, it was one of the engines not back spec'd from 5W30 to 5W20 because of the oil pump the engine uses.
Ford as extensively tested 5W20 in desert heat towing, then there are several fleets across the USA using 5W20 with great results. This topic has been beaten to death all over the internet. This is turning into the classic which is better Ford or Chevy debates.
5W20 has been in use for several years now and many Ford products have logged over 250,000-300,000 miles without issue.
I would use it in an application that calls for it, having said that if my engine calls for 5W30 I would not use 5W20.
AD
quote:
It is hard to reconcile the claim that you use synlube when your own link says: "check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil."
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:
It is hard to reconcile the claim that you use synlube when your own link says: "check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil."
--------------------------------------------
I do check/read my owners manual(what a joke-at times),and I also read the shop repair manual(differs from the owners manual-more trustworthy),and I don't "insist" on anything,I simply do what I know is best,and install what I want. I do the research and due diligence!
Those who have no clue,or confidence, are the ones who should have their vehicles serviced exclusively by the dealer/professional(what the link I posted infers).........perhaps Trajan,you are in that category.........so be it!
The link I posted is not, "my own link",as you imply,it's just a link I posted showing an article written by someone else(Schleeter)that discusses the issues of sludge, why it exists,what causes it,and how synthetic oil prevents it! The owners manual mentioned in the link was not what the article was really about,it was about sludge,and the benefits of SYNTHETIC OIL.
Funny thing.............the mention of the owners manual was only if you're on a budget...
"On any vehicle, if you can't afford synthetic oil, check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil. "
However,if you're not on a budget then........
# Make sure the shop that services your car uses the highest quality oil (brand name, full synthetic). Synthetic oil adds only $16.00 to $30.00 to an oil change. Read why synthetic prevents sludge build-up>
# Ask for a high-quality oil filter. The cost difference is less than $2.00.
Read why synthetic prevents sludge build-up>
I hope these newer cars not only use algorithms telling when to change the oil,but also sensors to actually measure the condition of the oil,and check for things like water,and glycol.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0...amed-on-dilatory-dr/
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0...amed-on-dilatory-dr/
Now I know why only about three or four people post on this site.
quote:Originally posted by Mokanic:
Now I know why only about three or four people post on this site.
Registered Members: 5211
Noria Corporation Forums
Online Now: 58
So,are you the forth person posting this time around,MOKANIC...........or are you number 58?
Kindly share what it is..........YOU CLAIM TO KNOW based on your above remark,we are all waiting to be englightened!
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
quote:Originally posted by Alternator:
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
If your exaust manifold is cherry red,you better believe you're frying the oil........and it better be high quality synthetic oil,or the oil will sludge if it's petroleum!
I think you need to do a little 'research' before you voice your opinion.
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts!
JUST SOME MORE PHOTOS....
http://i91.photobucket.com/alb...em/passant18t002.jpg
http://www.neuwerks.com/albums...4/IMG_8815.sized.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/alb...einz031/P1010088.jpg
The above are shots from a typical VW 1.8T WHICH ARE known to sludge due to.......'HEAT' from the turbo!
I would have to agree .quote:Originally posted by Alternator:
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
quote:Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
What sort of instrumentation did you use to arrive at that conclusion.
quote:hips offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim
well learnt it....