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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

It's near time for the 8k mile oil change for the car in my sig.

There are three things I look for in an oil.

1: API rating. It has to have the starburst on the container. If it does not have it, then I don't look any further.

2: ACEA rating. It has to have a HTHS of at least 3.5. So that means it has to be A3 or better. I've read that you can go to a higher A rating, but not lower. So if it's A1, it's rejected.

3: MFG approval. A great deal of money is spent on R&D to make sure the oil can handle the engine. Auto makers work closely with oil companies on that point. BMW works with Castrol, as does Audi/VW though other companies will pony up the money to test their oils. It's the same with Porsche/Mobil, Ferrari/Shell, etc.

Other companies also work with the auto makers. BMW factory fills with Castrol, but Valvoline/Mobil/Pennzoil also have BMW approvals for some of their oil. Porsche has over 100 approved oils, but factory fill with Mobil 1.

My point? Engine makers know more about their engines than anyone. So I'm a big proponent of using mfg approved oil in my engine.

So it is LL-01 for me. It is a point that I can bend on a little though, as my 6yr/100k mile warranty is up.


The next post will be a list of oils I'm looking at, and finally, the one that is my choice.

Feel free to advise, but within the paramaters. (LL-01 isn't an absolute.)
Last edited {1}
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In no paticular order:
Motul 8100 X-MAX 5W-30
http://matrixsyntheticoils.com...0%20x-max%205w30.pdf

Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.)

Castrol Syntec SAE 5W-40 European Formula (Ll-98 instead of 01 but meets the other two.)

Liqui Moly Leichtlauf Special LL 5W-30 (meets all)

Mobil 1 0w-40 (Meets all) The flagship as far as I'm concerned. Can't argue with Aston Martin, Porsche, Mercedes AMG either. My favorite oil.

Pento High Performance 5W-30 (Meets all)

Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 Euro (I understand Pennzoil is going to set a link on their site so we can buy it. It's hard to find.)

Q HorsePower SAE 5W-40 (as of 2007 LL-01 approval was pending)

I know one who ran uses Motul in his M3 and is happy with it. It is also expensive compared to the M1.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Note the timing gears from the 2.5 Boxster M96 engine. 0-40 M1 with excessive oil change interval. It was specified by the factory. Government regs have a great deal to do with current oil specs. Any of the products you have listed for consideration will be OK BUT chose an interval that suits the one you choose. Error on the side of caution. Any of the synthetic products listed are overkill,especially if the change interval is shortened. I treat my toys better than I have to,so no lecture here about spending more than you have to. DO WHAT YOU LIKE. You must have some opinion about what you do and dont want.
Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.) That would be my choice, seems to be a favorite oil for many drivers, with tons of data backing it up. Save the thicker stuff for if/when you ever have oil use problems. The other nice thing about the Castrol product is it is pretty easy to get, no jumping through hoops.

I have a few Shipmates using Castrol in BMW and they're all happy with it, engines are staying clean. We had the VC off one at the Hobby Shack not long ago, 100,000+ on the clock and clean as a bell using GC 0W30.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Note the timing gears from the 2.5 Boxster M96 engine. 0-40 M1 with excessive oil change interval. It was specified by the factory. Government regs have a great deal to do with current oil specs. Any of the products you have listed for consideration will be OK BUT chose an interval that suits the one you choose. Error on the side of caution. Any of the synthetic products listed are overkill,especially if the change interval is shortened. I treat my toys better than I have to,so no lecture here about spending more than you have to. DO WHAT YOU LIKE. You must have some opinion about what you do and dont want.


My OCI is normally @8K miles. Even under warranty I changed it halfway through. (I treat my toys better than I have to as well Smile)

I do have an opinion, thus the parameters I mentioned. But feel free to offer your advice. I may not heed it, but I won't bite your head off.

FWIW, I burn a qt /6k miles.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.) That would be my choice, seems to be a favorite oil for many drivers, with tons of data backing it up. Save the thicker stuff for if/when you ever have oil use problems. The other nice thing about the Castrol product is it is pretty easy to get, no jumping through hoops.

I have a few Shipmates using Castrol in BMW and they're all happy with it, engines are staying clean. We had the VC off one at the Hobby Shack not long ago, 100,000+ on the clock and clean as a bell using GC 0W30.

AD


GC is a very good oil. I've used it a few times. The factory fill is rebadged Castrol TXT 5w-30.

There is one oil I didn't mention, though I'm using it. Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40.

Miscommunication between myself and my mechanic led to that. My fault that was. I wanted the Pz-5w-40, but the distributor didn't have it listed. (Common as we've heard over at BITOG). So I said "The M1 then.", meaning the 0w-40. Oops.....

Anyway, I looked up the specs, and was really surprised at the HTHS of 3.9, which is a tad higher the their 0w-40.
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.
Im hesitant to recommend any product that I dont use myself or have any experience with. I can tell you the I use DELVAC 1 5-40 and lubrication engineers monolec SPB 5-30 in my own cars and trucks with no complaints. I also use lucas pure synthetic additive in some applications.Ive found it to be A very different product than their standard gorilla snot stabilizer. All depends on application and usage.
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
Im hesitant to recommend any product that I dont use myself or have any experience with. I can tell you the I use DELVAC 1 5-40 and lubrication engineers monolec SPB 5-30 in my own cars and trucks with no complaints. I also use lucas pure synthetic additive in some applications.Ive found it to be A very different product than their standard gorilla snot stabilizer. All depends on application and usage.


I came across this here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com...wthread.php?t=265292

"A note concerning Mobil 1 5w-40 SUV oil. I know that somebody is going to go to buy this and say "hey it doesn't say ACEA A3 on the back." They are correct. The 5w-40 oil repackaged Mobil Delvac 1, a Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine oil originally designed for trucks and fleet vehicles. This oil is slightly heavier than the 0w-40 and has an HTHS of 4.1. It meets ACEA E3,4 & 5 which are diesal requirements but still require an HTHS of greater than 3.5."

If it's the same as yours, that would be a good choice. I favor the higher HTHS numbers myself.

I hesitate to recommend oils I don't use too. In general though, I think an ACEA A3 oil is stouter than an non rated one of the same weight. JMHO though.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.


It's a car built for high speed/high rpm driving all day Smile

But seriously now. Most of my driving is highway. I'm about 1/2 mile or less from an expressway. Usually shift @2-2.5k, but once in awhile I rip it to 6k or do the Itailian tuneup.

No track days. But I average about 20K miles a year. (Bought it 4/06 with 10,300 miles, just turned 113,000 today.)
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.


It's a car built for high speed/high rpm driving all day Smile

But seriously now. Most of my driving is highway. I'm about 1/2 mile or less from an expressway. Usually shift @2-2.5k, but once in awhile I rip it to 6k or do the Itailian tuneup.

No track days. But I average about 20K miles a year. (Bought it 4/06 with 10,300 miles, just turned 113,000 today.)


Since you do Highway Driving, I am guessing your driving at least 30 miles or so one way, and about 30 miles back, regardless of how many miles you drive on the highway, this is not stop and go driving, so 8000 mile OCI's should be fine.

If this car were seeing mostly stop and go driving or short trips then I would be more concerned with the oil choice. JMO
Trajan,
Might look at Royal Purple 0w-40. API certified, meets A3 specs.

My mechanic just filled my Titan's sump with 2qt's RP break-in, and the rest 5w-30. He just installed my JWT cams and springs. I will run it for 1K then dump.

Eneos is getting some good reviews, although it's TBN is a little low, but supposedly, it retains it longer.

If not, run GC. I just bought a few qt's (all they had at A.Z.), for my OPE. If the truck does not like RP, I am going to use GC.

Have a good weekend, I am headed to Crystal River tomorrow for some scalloping over the long weekend.
Dave
The only thing with RP, is they keep the HTHS a secret, but if the 0W-40 meets A3 spec., It would be a good bet it will meet LL-01. I have started using Synthetics in just about everything now, although Dino's are just about as good. The Wife's Altima is filled with PYB for a 3000 OCI (because I received a few jugs from a friend). She does a lot of short trips. Next OCI will be PP or PU.

I have not been scalloping in a few years, so should be fun. My Sister decided not to sell her 330Ci, so I am using some of my saved money for me and the Wife. She is getting new rims and tires for the Altima, I got cams and headers for the Titan.

Dave
The LL-01 is a different spec then A3. You get one free oil change per year or 15,000 miles, which ever comes first, so they have that spec.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedi...009/RP/PC/index.html

Now that I'm out of warranty, I can bend on the LL spec. But if I do decide to go 10k between changes, then I'd lean towards it.

But still, the RP is a viable choice. Nice to have a boatload of good oil to choose from.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
From what I have read, A3 is one of the requirements of the LL spec.

There are quite a few quality, off the shelf oils that will meet your needs.

The RP seems to keep my Titan happy, although I have only had it in for 200 miles. I don't know if the extra cost is worth it, as platinum works as good in the VK56DE.

Dave


It is a requirement, but if you look at the link and compare the two (ACEA A3 with BMW LL-01), you'll see a bit of difference.

Kind of like how all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles. (M1 High Mileage 10w-40 is ACEA A3, but not LL-01, for example.)

One reason I started this was to look for and discuss a viable alternative/s. I didn't know RP made a 0w-40.

Thanks to you, now I know of another worthy oil Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Summit Racing carries it, but I am sure it can be found cheaper elsewhere. I am still learning about the different man. specifications. Some of the articles I have read until my eyes bleed.

BTW, the 5w-30 and 40 is only A-2. The 0w-40 is A3.

Dave


Eyes bleed and head spin. Probably why it's just so much easier to look at BMWNA's list. They did all the work for me.

But what would be the fun it that? (HEHE)
I hear ya Big Grin

I think any of the oils you listed will work fine in the Bimmer. If I could "will" myself to going 10K OCI's I would run RP or GC all the time in the Titan. But I am conservative and run 5-6K on syn and 3-4K on dino juice.

These Jim Wolf cams have made a big difference on the Titan. Mid-range power band is much wider. I will find out tomorrow how they handle tugging a 19' Key West flats boat (My buddy lets me borrow it).

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I hear ya Big Grin

I think any of the oils you listed will work fine in the Bimmer. If I could "will" myself to going 10K OCI's I would run RP or GC all the time in the Titan. But I am conservative and run 5-6K on syn and 3-4K on dino juice.

These Jim Wolf cams have made a big difference on the Titan. Mid-range power band is much wider. I will find out tomorrow how they handle tugging a 19' Key West flats boat (My buddy lets me borrow it).

Dave


Thw M1 0w-40, the two Castrols I've used, so I know they work, The others are hard to find. I've seen the Pento at a National Auto. Everything else looks like mail order.

Nothing wrong with being conservative. You beefed up the motor, so it's a good thing anyway. You already use quality oil/filter, so you're good.

Sometimes I want to get more HP. But every BMW forum I look at says the same thing. Forced induction. The stock engine is pretty much maxed out as it is, so a software update/CAI/headers/catback will only give about 3-5 more.

Anyway, enjoy the weekend!!!
The German's have figured out how to get the most out of the engine, especially the smaller inline 6's.

Heck, the Krauts had synthetic oil during WWII!

The VK56DE in my truck, was modified for pulling. The original design was for the Q56 Infinity, with sodium filled valves, etc. Nissan just changed the valve train for truck work.

After driving my Sisters 330Ci, I can attest to the fact that BMW knows what they are doing. Medium displacement, HP number low on paper, but man does that thing sing on the hwy, and corner like it is on rails. Where I work, we are phasing out the HD Road King police for the BMW 1200RTP. The Hawgs pull away til about 20, then the Beamers say Bye Bye. Better warranty, balance, performance, 2 batteries, yep Germans know what they are doing. Maintenance is cheaper too.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
The German's have figured out how to get the most out of the engine, especially the smaller inline 6's.

Heck, the Krauts had synthetic oil during WWII!

The VK56DE in my truck, was modified for pulling. The original design was for the Q56 Infinity, with sodium filled valves, etc. Nissan just changed the valve train for truck work.

After driving my Sisters 330Ci, I can attest to the fact that BMW knows what they are doing. Medium displacement, HP number low on paper, but man does that thing sing on the hwy, and corner like it is on rails. Where I work, we are phasing out the HD Road King police for the BMW 1200RTP. The Hawgs pull away til about 20, then the Beamers say Bye Bye. Better warranty, balance, performance, 2 batteries, yep Germans know what they are doing. Maintenance is cheaper too.

Dave


Yes they do. best car I ever had. But oh the pain of having to fix it now....... Luckily my mechanic lets me bring my own parts.

If she ends up keeping it, inspect the expansion tank once in a while. It's a weak spot, and bimmers don't carry alot of coolant.

(I got lucky when mine cracked. Only cracked enough to empty itself and not the radiator.)
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.
You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?
LAMONT....
"Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?"

"Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke."


TIM..
"You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?"
----------------------------------------------

Tajan Said.....
Nice to see you both have oils suggestions.
Oh, wait........... you don't.[/QUOTE]

____________

I guess if you were a little more perceptive,Trajan....you would realize they both do have a suggestion...................that would be........to rethink your final decision about who the "winner is" as you stated earlier. They both know something about oil,you apparently..........don't.

I am not really sure what this thread is about since you have basically answered your own question in your first post. You already have stated that you use GC or M1. What oil decision are you looking for....................to change to another brand after all these years!

Why don't you take your own advice,Trajan............and ask BMW! Why ask us!!! What do we Know! BMW IS YODA IN YOUR CASE! SO USE THEIR APPROVED OIL,AND BE DONE WITH IT!

Your Quote...

"Engine makers know more about their engines than anyone. So I'm a big proponent of using mfg approved oil in my engine."


ENOUGH SAID............
I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason. Smile

AD
No Tim, I'm talking batch data, not formulation data. But you knew that.

Engine stand testing is a funny business because many of those tests are so complex that it is really easy to get a false fail (especially if that's what you wanted in the first place) but practically impossible to get a false pass. That is why those are some of the rare cases where it is an ethically valid practice to test until you pass.

With the possible exception of D 2272 for industrial oils, very few tests that would be used for batch certification fall into that category. Batch tests of necessity tend to fall into the 'go-no go' category.

Pulling a single batch and running a complex engine test once doesn't give you any useful data unless it's a pass in most cases.

Isn't it time for your Amsoil drum circle or something?
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.


Lamont, I have a question, if I am choosing between 2 oil's and they both have tests is it fair to say that these tests are just pure Marketing to try and get me to buy there oil.

Would it be better to compare 2 different motor oil's by looking at each motor oil's PRODUCT DATA SHEETS.

I could then compare 40 Degree Celcius and 100 Degree Celcius Numbers

I could compare Flash Point and Pour Points.

I could compare HTHS Numbers as well as how both oil's do in the so called Cold Pumpability Test.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason. Smile

AD


One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.

The oils I listed not only claim it, but can prove it. Unlike, well, you know, that oil that can't meet it's advertised weight.

The links BLK listed really intrigued me. All good oils. Just couldn't convince myself to go with that weight.

Thanks to those who made the suggestions before I chose what I did.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.


So true. Very easy to sit safely on the sidelines and say what you'd do if you were in the game. Stating you're the best, but since you're not part of it you enjoy the easy life having nothing to prove.

AD


What game! The game of politics? The only real game,the only real proving ground......is the market place,and how the masses play,or not!

If a product is not what it claims,the market place will brutally shoot it down! There is no easy life in the real world,Ad!
Its easy when you decide not to participate in certifications then claim you exceed them. Seems the market place decided that Mobil is #1, and everyone compares themselves to Mobil 1.

True there is no easy life in the real world, but some companies try and make it easier and cheaper by shooting their mouths off that they're the best but not playing in the game.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Its easy when you decide not to participate in certifications then claim you exceed them.

AD


Which brings to mind the following:

Keep in mind that unlike standard oil industry approvals, where an oil can get a grade by being within a range of criteria, OEM-approved oils use a set of standards that have been tested on your vehicle and been proven to work. I would be surprised if a company that uses the term "exceeds" spent the money to have an OEM test its oil only to receive a letter that says, "We're sorry but your product is too good, we can't offer you approval." The same thing holds true with the use of the term "meets." Since the other oil companies don't spend the time and money to have the OEM, how would they know it meets the requirement? Plus, if it did really meet the requirement then it would be an approved oil.

Some people like to cry foul and say that they don't think it's right for a car manufacturer to dictate what type of oil to use, especially if another oil company says their product exceeds their specifications. The other oil company might throw up some test and show some proof that their oil is superior to an approved oil brand. But there really is only one test for approval and that's the real-world test, which includes extensive testing of emissions, oxidation, wear-and-tear distribution on moving metal-to-metal parts, fuel economy, and severe wear-and-tear testing (about 600 hours of continued use) on your type of vehicle.

I even told one purveyor of a certain oil that, provided he buy the engine, I'd use his oil. I'd even spring for the Dyson lab work.

The fact that he declined shows the level of faith in his product.
API certs. good or bad are a starting point and help the consumer. Maybe not the greatest testing in the world, but they are something. Sitting back not participating then tooting your own horn IMO about how great a product is would be a bunch of BS.

You want to make claims the product is better then get into the game. I can home brew my own oil and say how great it is too, putting my money where my mouth is would be another story. Since these companies claim these tests are expensive I see that as a half truth and an easy way out. Oh yea and a way to increase profit...............My $.02

AD
Trajan said....
quote:
I even told one purveyor of a certain oil that, provided he buy the engine, I'd use his oil. I'd even spring for the Dyson lab work.

The fact that he declined shows the level of faith in his product.


-----------------------------------------

Using your nutty logic Trajan,would that also apply to Goodyear tire as well if they didn't buy you a car if you promised to install their tires?

Let's also ask Mobil(using your logic-or lack of) to buy you a car if you promise to gas up for ten years with their fuel-with a signed contract even. That would be the most equitable agreement possible,and guess what Xom(mobil) would still tell you......


In sum........using, 'your logic',Goodyear tires are junk,and so is Mobil gas?


Any other brilliant conclusions Trajan,we're all on the edge of our seats!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
API certs. good or bad are a starting point and help the consumer. Maybe not the greatest testing in the world, but they are something. Sitting back not participating then tooting your own horn IMO about how great a product is would be a bunch of BS.

You want to make claims the product is better then get into the game. I can home brew my own oil and say how great it is too, putting my money where my mouth is would be another story. Since these companies claim these tests are expensive I see that as a half truth and an easy way out. Oh yea and a way to increase profit...............My $.02

AD



Well Ad,what is stopping you? You too can get into the business as a tribologist/oil blender. Show'em how it's done! I bet those fees would make you think twice when it really cuts into your bottom line.

Why not just put the money into making a better product instead,like some are doing........and quite well at that!

Now, what I can't figure out, is.......Big oil with it's deep pockets should have no problems making the Best motor oil lube............SO WHY DON'T THEY?

Aren't they(big oil) already making more than enough from selling fuel.......to us! What gives! I have to buy their lousy gas...........and oil too! Instead,I will support the little guy making a quality lube product!
Well Kirk I look at it this way, at least with the certs the consumer has something to go by. Vs. dealers trying to make a buck pushing a product that isn't certified. Lets use beef for an example, I'd rather have "Grade A Beef" that passed USDA standards than something imported from a country that has no standards at all. I trust the USDA before someone who is paid selling non cert. meat, telling me its good beef. No thanks!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Kirk I look at it this way, at least with the certs the consumer has something to go by. Vs. dealers trying to make a buck pushing a product that isn't certified. Lets use beef for an example, I'd rather have "Grade A Beef" that passed USDA standards than something imported from a country that has no standards at all. I trust the USDA before someone who is paid selling non cert. meat, telling me its good beef. No thanks!

AD



There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.

"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!


Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.
quote:


There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.

"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!


Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.


As far as food, man raises, cares for, and feeds the animal, then kills it, and brings it to market. Ever eat beef in Mexico?


Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests.

AD
What are these guys(API) really all about...

The association’s chief functions on behalf of the industry include advocacy and negotiation with governmental, legal, and regulatory agencies; research into economic, toxicological, and environmental effects; establishment and certification of industry standards;

Lobbying

API has spent more than $3 million annually for each the last five years (2005 to 2009) on lobbying, and $3.6 million in 2009.[3] In API’s latest quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the US Senate, the organization reported that it had 16 lobbyists supporting it to lobby on various Congressional activities.[4]

http://www.api.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A..._Petroleum_Institute


SOUND LIKE POLITICS TO ME! JUST ANOTHER BUREAUCRACY!


This reminds me of how BP got "certified" just before the well blew out!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.

"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!


Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.


As far as food, man raises, cares for, and feeds the animal, then kills it, and brings it to market. Ever eat beef in Mexico?


Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests.

AD


Funny how he cries about oil makers and "major bucks." When this "synlube", even on ebay, costs more than three times what M1 costs from say, Pep Boys.

Haven't seen a VOA where M1 failed. Seen synlube ones though.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.

"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!


Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.


As far as food, man raises, cares for, and feeds the animal, then kills it, and brings it to market. Ever eat beef in Mexico?


Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests.

AD


Funny how he cries about oil makers and "major bucks." When this "synlube", even on ebay, costs more than three times what M1 costs from say, Pep Boys.

Haven't seen a VOA where M1 failed. Seen synlube ones though.



The Synlube in the longer-run is actually quite inexpensive-100% credit for returned used SL.

NO FAILURES HERE! MY ENGINES SAY SO!

VOA FAILED.......SAYS WHO!

BRUCE!

LET'S SEE.......SAME OIL SAMPLE,SEVERAL TESTS DONE,DIFFERENT RESULTS EACH TIME,EQUALS FAILURE OF TEST/TESTER/EQUIPMENT......NOT OIL.

We have had this discussion regarding 'test results',and how unreliable/inconsistent they can be.

(AD said.)

"Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests."

In all these years with the other,'non certified' oil being in the market place...........we would have found out by now if they were any issues with/'non-certified' oil. TO DATE-NONE! JUST THE OPPOSITE IN FACT. The non-certified oils are looking to be much,much better actually!

Where are all the blown up engines with the non certified oil?... OH,that's right,the blown/sludged up engines all had been running with........API "CERTIFIED" OIL. SO MUCH FOR API,certified oil!


In the end.............the engine-oil/ longevity/performance is the ultimate proving ground.......and all the proof positive in this case for the so-called,Non-cert/oil.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Tell that to my uncle running PYB in an F Series Ford now approaching 275K. Sorry Kirk Pigs will fly before I put Synlube in anything I own. Especially since there is no real business address.

AD


Millions of cars use dino. That's all they need. Even the 2010 Camaro V6 uses dino. If dino oils were bad, no car maker would spec them for engines. No one would buy them.

Dino oil isn't the problem. Owners who use the wrong viscosity or the "put in an unapproved oil, and ran it way over the manufacturer specified limit, and now expect Ford to pay for your stupidity" kind are the problem.
"Millions of cars use dino. That's all they need."

Bingo!

All these Drama Queens are quite amusing, whacking each other over the head with their sequined bags regarding whose version of synthetic overkill is the one and only. They sound like the guy on the bizarre contact lens commercial moaning about his 'special eyes' and how no one could have his brand, which of course is just a regular old brand that is available everywhere.

I think there may be self-esteem issues at work here. If you convince yourself that your car needs 'special' oil, your car must be special and so are you for owning it, right? When the reality is that most modern dinos are overkill for most passenger vehicle applications.

I just don't see the benefit spending extra money so that when my worn out hulk is towed to the scrap yard, it will have a nice, shiny clean crankcase. I don't want my engine to last forever, I just want it to last as long as the rest of the car.
Lamont- You sound just like my uncle with the F series Ford. He says "for the most vehicles PYB, Mobil 5000, GTX, or any good dino would have made his old Ford last just as long as the very best A*******l brew." He doesn't buy into salesman's tales, or marketing hype.

He says use the recommended grade oil, change it, change the filters, and drive. I remember him asking a know it all type pushing expensive oil to prove him wrong, he's still waiting. I'm glad he set me straight, for a while I fell for he hype.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

He says use the recommended grade oil, change it, change the filters, and drive.

AD


Good advice. I use what I do not because it's a "special" car, but because that is what is called for.

If it was spec'd for dino oil, I'd use that. That's what I used in every other car from the 1964 Buick to the 1997 Camaro.

A $32 bottle of goo? Not when what I know works is only $6.27
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
"Millions of cars use dino. That's all they need."

Bingo!


Lamont,what oil is in your vehicles! GROCERY-GETTERS- Synthetic or petroleum.


How do you explain all the talk/use of MMO/ARX,flushes,cleaners,and new oil standards,such as dexos. We have people on these boards as we speak flushing out their engines with various solvents,and detergents,etc. What gives!

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...4995/m/625107773/p/1

Explain to us what happened in Europe regarding the black death(sludge) that was epidemic,and also epidemic in America....even with proper OCI's.

Why are so many cars being sold with synthetic in the crankcase brand new. Even the small engines(mowers,etc.) are recommending synthetic.

Why are there now service bulletins mandating to use synthetic oil in some models that originally spec'd mineral oil,because the mineral based oil isn't holding up,no matter how often it's changed or what brand is used!

How many cars are in the junk yard right now with sludge,contrary to what you stated!

How many people have sludge and don't even know it-Yet!

You posted..
"so that when my worn out hulk is towed to the scrap yard, it will have a nice, shiny clean crankcase."

I have been to a few Junkyards over the years,Lamont........Have you? Shiny clean engines........No way!!! Where?


sludge article.....
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-...Oil-Change&id=970590

quoted from above article:

"Aluminum engines with new heat transfer rates combined with hotter internal temperatures for emissions compliance, often overheating oil.

Finer internal tolerances and friction reduction called for lower viscosity motor oils.

These thinner lubricants allowed smaller pores on oil pan uptake screens which tended to clog easily. Front wheel drive compacted entire drive trains in crowded engine bays, where heat from tack-on turbochargers and catalytic converters built up. Cylinder heads evolved with three and four valves per cylinder, variable valve timing, and overhead cams with their associated chains and gears."

End quote-


Lamont,knowing all this,you would put mineral oil in your......"grocery getter",as you call it.

Well I don't know what you drive,however,my vehicles are not...."grocery-getters",as you say.

My vehicles are "paycheck-getters",and money "makers".

My vehicles cost a small fortune,and I am not going to 'cheap out',and install antiquated lubricant in a modern day machine......my high tech engines will be lubed by high tech synthetic oil so as to match the high tech engine technology they are lubricating.

In sum.........if you want your..."grocery getter" towed to the junk yard......... then run mineral oil in the engine! NOT ME! NO THANK YOU!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

A $32 bottle of goo? Not when what I know works is only $6.27




Yeh sure.......spend $6.27 on (MINERAL)oil that only cost 75 cents...and don't buy the really good oil that lasts 20 times longer,and actually is much,much cheaper in the long run,and can be sent back for 100% credit when so desired. Keep feeding big oil.

Why don't you send some extra money right now to help your friend, "Big Oil"- you love so much........and help poor BP clean up the mess they made with.............DINO OIL!!!
I guess we've been very lucky then. I think poor engine design, like in some Toyota applications, and neglect are the biggest problems with sludge. Running an oil for 50,000 miles, is insane, and stupid, especially in an engine like some of the Toyota engines that are prone to problems by design.

Would Synlube back up a Toyota sludge prone engine that failed with it in the sump for 50,000 miles? LOL We were questioning Amsoil, I don't recall anyone asking about Synlube.

AD
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trajan:

Even the 2010 Camaro V6 uses dino. If dino oils were bad, no car maker would spec them for engines. No one would buy them.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/...gine+specifications&

All that wonderful engine technology,and then install low tech oil? No,thanks!


Oh,wait............looks like I was right after-all about using synthetic in the V6 Camaro...I knew Gm wouldn't make such a bad choice with motor oil of all things........

//////Engine- (GM recomends using synthetic engine oil)
LS3/L99: 8.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
V6: 6.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
^^Capacities are WITH replacement of oil filter
LS3/L99 Oil Filter: ACDelco PF48.........K&N HP-1017........Napa Gold 7060
V6: ACDelco PF2129............K&N HP-7003........Napa Gold 7090///////////


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49508


QUOTES FOR THE NAYSAYERS OF SYNTHETIC OIL.........

"As a past GM tech, I have pulled apart 100k mile engines that were "synthetic since birth" and 100k mile engines that were dino-based users... I believed in synthetic long before I started tearing down motors, but the proof I saw sealed the deal. "
Last edited by captainkirk
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.

GM 6094M is not the the synthetic oil spec so if your owners manual says that then is came with mineral oil, not synthetic.

GM4718M is General Motors' High Performance engine oil specification. Oils which meet GM4718M tend to be made from synthetic base stocks, so it is often referred to as a "synthetic" specification.

However, not all oils, synthetic or otherwise, are capable of meeting the stringent requirements of GM4718M.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.



Show me a lawsuit/FTC,ETC,that says not to use it.

Also,show me any-mfg, stipulating.....not-to-use synthetic oil,but to ONLY use MINERAL BASED OILS. SHOW ME THAT ONE!!!!


Never claimed there was a lawsuit that said one could not. What I said was/is the following:

No synlube is spec'd by any carmaker.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Never claimed there was a lawsuit that said one could not. What I said was/is the following:

No synlube is spec'd by any carmaker.



Nor is............ Motul,Amsoil,Royal Purple,Torco,lubro moly,Neo synthetic,Redline,etc,etc.

Yet,these are all very good lubricants....Much better than what the Avg motorist has installed in their engines....


AND YOUR POINT IS....TRAJAN....



OH LOOK,GM ENDORSES WALMART BRAND OIL,AND OTHER OILS BLENDED BY BIG-OIL COMPANIES.............POLITICS AGAIN!!!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf


TRAJAN..............KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID........
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.



Show me a lawsuit/FTC,ETC,that says not to use it.

Also,show me any-mfg, stipulating.....not-to-use synthetic oil,but to ONLY use MINERAL BASED OILS. SHOW ME THAT ONE!!!!


And show us that car you claim exists down the street with the engine that was ruined by running Synlube.

We have been waiting months for your proof.

Well?
And he calls us liars!

None of them here can get over the fact that you are successfully running Synlube in your vehicles. They love to mention that it costs $32. per bottle, cenveniently not mentioning that you return it and a new supply is sent to you prepaid and no charge in replacement every 50 000 miles! No other company in the World does that!
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
And he calls us liars!

None of them here can get over the fact that you are successfully running Synlube in your vehicles. They love to mention that it costs $32. per bottle, cenveniently not mentioning that you return it and a new supply is sent to you prepaid and no charge in replacement every 50 000 miles! No other company in the World does that!


--------------------------------------------

Thanks,inHaliburton.......these guys are old school. One even talks about what his 'Uncle recommends'. My uncles ask me,not the other way around.

I bet these guys are from the same stock that thought 100k platinum spark plugs were impossible,let alone 200k iridium plugs. How about 100k tires and brakes......must have sounded crazy at one time.

What I can't figure out is that none of them get the fact they could just install-drain-refill, just like the stuff they use now(every 5-8k),and send in for 100% credit..thus almost free oil in the long-run,if they are afraid of 50k OCI's.

My prediction for the future is that the automakers will install lifetime oil,and lifetime(over-sized-integrated oil filters) because of all the environmental issues.....give it a few more years! They already are doing it with fuel filters,it's part of the pump module.

The fuel filter-pump module system was only really an issue in the beginning if someone went to fill up at a 'mom-n-pop' gas station with sediment laden fuel. Now days people go 150k with those things,no problem.
Kirk my uncle is someone I respect, who is extremely knowledgeable, and in tune with facts. He's not some shill on a message board, who talks to himself. There are many respectable people here who know the product is a hoax.

When you log 275,000 + miles let us know. I read your threads you haven't come close yet.

I do commend you on your new tactic to shill your product thought, nice approach. Did you get those business issues resolved and establish a business location yet? Or is the business location and mailing address still classified?

AD
I saw lots of anecdotes; if there were data, I must have missed them, though not for lack of looking.

RobertC, I'll agree with you that the 'accuracy window' (what us old lab-rats call 'test precision') is generally pretty tight for bench tests (viscosity, TAN, TBN, ICP, etc.) But an engine test stand is a whole different animal. They are run with, well, engines. So you have to start with the much greater variability that comes with using a commercial engine as your 'instrument'. Then you have to multiply that variability by that of the bench test used to evaluate the end-of-test oil. The reason bench test variability is so tight is because they well-controlled, highly isolated simulations of mechanical phenomena. Engine tests tend to sprawl.

I base my opinions on 35 years in laboratories located in various corners of the lube business. These have included analytical testing, product development, release testing and field tech service. But in the absence of that, I'd take the advice of an uncle over a fast-talking sales guy who stands to make a (potentially excessive) profit on my decision.

The notion that buying a synthetic from a compounder-blender is somehow sticking it to 'Big Oil' is the second funniest thing I've heard today, right behind the Korean techno-pop singer doing to Japanese roach-spray commercial. Where to you think those compounder-blenders get their molecules (and often their formulations)? The PAOs are probably coming from ExxonMobil, or some other major with excess capacity. Mineral base oils also probably from ExxonMobil, maybe Shell? (Who has surplus these days?) Addiitves will come from Lubrizol, Ethyl (no mom & pop shops, those), Oronite (Chevron), Infineum (ExxonMobil - Shell), or a few other players that may look small until you figure out who owns them.
quote:
Originally


I base my opinions on 35 years in laboratories located in various corners of the lube business. These have included analytical testing, product development, release testing and field tech service. But in the absence of that, I'd take the advice of an uncle over a fast-talking sales guy who stands to make a (potentially excessive) profit on my decision.

The notion that buying a synthetic from a compounder-blender is somehow sticking it to 'Big Oil' is the second funniest thing I've heard today, right behind the Korean techno-pop singer doing to Japanese roach-spray commercial. Where to you think those compounder-blenders get their molecules (and often their formulations)? The PAOs are probably coming from ExxonMobil, or some other major with excess capacity. Mineral base oils also probably from ExxonMobil, maybe Shell? (Who has surplus these days?) Addiitves will come from Lubrizol, Ethyl (no mom & pop shops, those), Oronite (Chevron), Infineum (ExxonMobil - Shell), or a few other players that may look small until you figure out who owns them.


I'll also read through threads like this and take advise from someone like Mr. Dumont who obviously knows what he's talking about, then someone with a clear sales agenda.

AD
Lamont, I have the greatest respect for you and your ilk. Your knowledge is first-rate and few can question what you post. Similarly, I respect Capt. Kirk who is using a contraversial product. All he is doiing is giving us his personal experience with said product, and his opinions on sludge formation. I also agree with his vision of the future, which could have been yesteryear if it could have been more profitable for big oil than the usual 5- to 8-thousand kilometer oil change intervals we enjoy up here in the Great White North. When that era arrives, we can expect to pay much more for permanant oils to make up for the lack of OCIs on new vehicles. I can recall when cars were assembled without grease nipples and at the time I was positive that it would mean big problems for my car. Of course, I have yet to experience such a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

I'll also read through threads like this and take advise from someone like Mr. Dumont who obviously knows what he's talking about, then someone with a clear sales agenda.

AD

I do not believe that Capt. Kirk has a sales agenda. He has no relationship with Synlube except as a customer. Like Kirk, I could care less whether anyone purchases Synlube or not.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:

I do not believe that Capt. Kirk has a sales agenda. He has no relationship with Synlube except as a customer. Like Kirk, I could care less whether anyone purchases Synlube or not.


Well then three of us agree on something! That is not caring who uses it. I don't care who uses it either. But you'll never find it in anything I own.
I will agree with that. If Kirk uses Syn-Lube and has good luck with it, hey, no problem. I prefer a good name brand oil that is API certified. I have a hard time buying products from a vehicle trunk (the old speaker scam comes to mind). I really would not have a hard time with S-L-4_life, if the website was not from 1996. Anyone with a little computer knowledge can make a decent site with DreamWeaver and cold fusion.

I prefer a quality oil that I can find on the shelf.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:

I do not believe that Capt. Kirk has a sales agenda. He has no relationship with Synlube except as a customer. Like Kirk, I could care less whether anyone purchases Synlube or not.


Well then three of us agree on something! That is not caring who uses it. I don't care who uses it either. But you'll never find it in anything I own.


Fails to explain why he spent so much bandwidth defending the product and attacking any and all who question it though.

Or why he's afraid to use it despite such a defense.

Or why this kirk person spends so much time pushing it.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
[QUOTE]
And verifiable, third party tests.


If your certified oils are so good, why do you find it necessary to use that black ARX gunk.

BTW, I used that stuff on my first Focus at about 200 000 km. Had to dig the stuff out of the bottle because it had gone solid just like sludge. Either my engine was pristine, or that stuff did not do as advertised because I noticed no difference whatsoever, except my bank account was somewhat lighter...

I still have 2 bottles. Anyone want them
Well said Lamont. You are right.

Engines today are outlasting the rest of the car. Cars today require such little maintenance. Oils today are better than ever.

I have the greatest respect for XOM's marketing. Much more professional than many of the other companies.

I'm at least glad to see Shell is using the Seq IIIG & IVA instead of the 4- ball wear test to make wear claims. LOL
Well Trajan, as I have told you and the masses at least 5 times since the turn of the year why I will not used Synlube. I cannot use Synlube until warranty is up because the OCI is 5 000 kms.

At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.
How long does a car last........?



Consumer Reports ( www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles.



That would be 50 iffy-lube visits for the average motorist! NOT ME! NO THANKS!

My wife loves the fact she never has to have her car serviced for an oil change..........I agree!


We just gas-n-go! Wash-n-wax! Everything is synthetic,even the brake fluid!
Read through all the synlube threads out on the web, and you get alot of claims.

But hard data, that you can actually verify, is rare. So rare that Indiana Jones would die of old age before he found it.

The promoters seem to tell us to keep an open mind..... ok is looking for evidence an example of a closed mind?? Now maybe those that just fell off the turnip truck will automatically believe all sales pitches... that seems to be the nature of most scams.

Anecdotes are no substitute for the lengthy and grueling testing that other oils are subjected to. And no one has presented a shred of evidence that SYNLUBE can pass these tests even once, let alone forever.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Read through all the synlube threads out on the web, and you get alot of claims.

But hard data, that you can actually verify, is rare. So rare that Indiana Jones would die of old age before he found it.

The website is a travesty. Very poor example of marketing and information.

You don't claim that a police department uses the stuff, and not provide anything to back it up.

You don't claim to pass tests, and fail to provide anything to back it up.

Other than that, the threads here and at bitog speak volumes about this "oil".



"""MFG approved engine/trans/diff oil"""---Does that include -AR-X?

SYNLUBE HAS ALL THE PROOF I NEED! I DO BELIEVE THE PROOF YOU SPEAK OF, WAS PROVIDED TAJAN!

WOULD YOU LIKE AN INVITATION TRAJAN,PLUS DINNER AND A MOVIE-MAYBE.. A FEW COCKTAILS? SEVERAL FREE CASES OF THE STUFF? YOU'VE ALREADY ASKED FOR A FREE ENGINE--JUST TO TRY IT! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
Up here 50 trips by the time you get outta there is at least $50. for easy math. Thats for bottom end dino probably out of the gun, so who knows what the stuff is. Do you believe the hype from the kid who is trying to upsell you. Anyway, that works out to $2500, plus 15% HST = $2875. Round if off to $3000. Sure makes Synlube look like a bargoonie at $32 per bottle.
quote:
Originally posted by Capt. Kirk:


"""MFG approved engine/trans/diff oil"""---Does that include -AR-X?


Capt., he will never answer why he is using ARX. You know the drill. Got to be a reason for sure cuz the stuff is way over priced for doing nothing. I know cuz I got sucked in with the all the hype over on BOBALOO 4 years ago. He is trying to clean up the engine from using that BMW goop they tell the non-thinkers to use. You have to use it during warranty even if it is no good, hence, his filty engine. That is the only reason to use ARX. He know darn well if he was using Synlube he would have saved a bundle and have a pristine engine just like yours!
Last edited by inhaliburton
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Well Trajan, as I have told you and the masses at least 5 times since the turn of the year why I will not used Synlube. I cannot use Synlube until warranty is up because the OCI is 5 000 kms.

At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.


Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.

Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Well Trajan, as I have told you and the masses at least 5 times since the turn of the year why I will not used Synlube. I cannot use Synlube until warranty is up because the OCI is 5 000 kms.

At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.


Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.

Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.

AD


That would mean that he actually has the courage of his convictions. Never seen such rabid defense of a product by one who doesn't/is too scared to use it.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]
Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.

Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.

AD

AD, a touch of sarcasm. Easy there... Wink

Well, bully for you friend. That's his truck and he's welcome to do what he wants, just like me. Nope, makes no sense to not change the oil for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 thousand miles. The numbers get real big when transforming to metric. Believe me, the Ford crowd up here are not into very long OCIs. If something with wrong with the motor or driveline, they would laugh me out of the service department if I go in there looking for warranty and can't prove that the oil had been changed every 5 000 kms. Not worth the risk. I can wait. It's unlikely that I'll have a warranty issue with the engine. I've not has one in more than 20 years. Can't remember having an issue ever with the engine or tranny. Mostly recalls over the years.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

That would mean that he actually has the courage of his convictions. Never seen such rabid defense of a product by one who doesn't/is too scared to use it.

The big bucks you've been throwing away for all those additives you've been dumping in that dirty engine of yours to clean it up after using that crumby BMW-authorized oil you been using will easily pay for loading up the truck when and if decide to switch to Synlube.

That hocky stuff you are using is not necessary if you use a quality synthetic motor oil and quality oil filter and change according to your operating manual. That's simple, basic, logical maintenance.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]
Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.

Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.

AD

AD, a touch of sarcasm. Easy there... Wink

Well, bully for you friend. That's his truck and he's welcome to do what he wants, just like me. Nope, makes no sense to not change the oil for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 thousand miles. The numbers get real big when transforming to metric. Believe me, the Ford crowd up here are not into very long OCIs. If something with wrong with the motor or driveline, they would laugh me out of the service department if I go in there looking for warranty and can't prove that the oil had been changed every 5 000 kms. Not worth the risk. I can wait. It's unlikely that I'll have a warranty issue with the engine. I've not has one in more than 20 years. Can't remember having an issue ever with the engine or tranny. Mostly recalls over the years.


Yea there was a touch of sarcasm, sorry man, it was to bring up a point. My point was there was lots of discussion about warranty claims, and the company having to prove the oil was to blame, even if you used a non approved oil and ran it 3x longer than the mfg wants.

I feel exactly the same way as you, and yes the dealer would probably laugh right in your face for sure! Even if you ran one of the non-certified oils that has an actual mail address for 1 year or 35,000 miles. FMC or anyone else would probably laugh really hard. Save those oils for after the warranty, if you plan on using them. Me I'll pass though!

AD
quote:
I feel exactly the same way as you, and yes the dealer would probably laugh right in your face for sure! Even if you ran one of the non-certified oils that has an actual mail address for 1 year or 35,000 miles. FMC or anyone else would probably laugh really hard. Save those oils for after the warranty, if you plan on using them. Me I'll pass though!

AD



How would the dealer even know the 'synthetic oil' was in the pan for up-to-35k.

In the past,a dealer/mfg "proved" the oil was in the crank way too long with the presence of severe and heavy sludge....because sludge always occurred when the oil was left in too long. I know of people who leased, didn't change the factory fill,blew up the motor now loaded up with sludge,and voided their warranty.

If the engine is running pure synthetic and has a defect,but no sludge,and a clean engine, the engine/part will be fixed under warranty.

You do not have to "Brag" to the dealer what brand of oil you are using,nor how long you left in the oil. Do change the 'factory' oil filter out very early on.

Almost all the people who have had lubricant issues/sludge/varnish-engine failures.....almost 100% of the time had been running mineral oil/and or group III oil.

Lexus/toyota,did have an issues with sludge and spec'd way undersized-laughable tiny oil filters that may have clogged up on few occasion with even amsoil...but not synlube.

However,the bulk of the issues were with mineral oil,and cellulose oil filters.

Those tiny oil filters give no margin of protection,if there is an issue.

http://media.photobucket.com/i...4Runner/IMG_1705.jpg


The tiny oil filters pictured above work great under lab conditions-so the engineers gave the ok to use them,but Bigger is still better. A Larger media,less pressure drop/loss,more capacity-if needed,is always better. This is why I never totally trust the MFG,and their various specs,recommendations..........they are wrong about many things.....can you say recall!!!!

While on the subject of filters....I just replaced the mustang oil filter that happened to be the new fram-x2/100% synthetic media(fram says good up-to-10k) with 10,500 miles on it just to see how well it would perform with synlube. I cut open the filter and the media looked spotless inside. I even dissected the fuzzy type media,and NO dirt,no sludge,no varnish,no metal the filter-mag would have attracted if any,I believe this filter could have gone for another 10k.

The engine-looking inside the oil fill cap opening is also spotless,and uses Zero oil. I normally use a better filter than the very good fram x2 which cost me $6.95 at walmart.......they are now $8.95. I wonder how the Bosh distance plus compares since it does not have the backing screen like the fram X2. Most of these high end filters generally pull down to 5-7 microns at the 50% measure of efficiency(2 minutes on the highway or less)-when they are new,so perhaps they only get better over time.
Last edited by captainkirk
For those of you who think that ARX is cleaning up your engine by virtue of the filter media.....

QUOTED..
"ARX's lanolin esters are semi-solid and rather large particles. I have filtered the virgin product with coffee filters which caught a lot of these particles on the filter. It looked like jelly and I think that this is what you are seeing here."

THE LINK

fficial%26channel%3Ds%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/imgres?i...%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1
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