I use which ever type the engine calls for.
This one gets synth for that reason.
All the others get/got dino for the same reason.
No $32 "oil" for me.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
Given that there is a significant personal preference aspect to all of this, there are plenty of legitmate holes to poked in my personal preference (perfection being conceptually impossible in our current sphere of existence). I'm just not sure I've read any of them in this thread.
Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe', as could the vehicle used for two solid weeks in 4WD. (Did I hear it would be in sand?)
Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe', as could the vehicle used for two solid weeks in 4WD. (Did I hear it would be in sand?)
quote:
Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe'...
Precisely why I use a synthetic oil in my air-cooled Kawasaki mower engine. Just over 700 hours on the clock and runs like a top.
quote:Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
......
Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe', as could the vehicle used for two solid weeks in 4WD. (Did I hear it would be in sand?)
Yep, a nice little secluded beach. My actual max is 9 days with no asphalt.
But sooner or later, you run out of something and have to go to town.
And a few hours later, back to Nirvana
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Synthetics have their place, but that place is primarily in industrial formulations, which is where the real severe service applications live. I have a real hard time envisioning a unit that typically operates maybe 4-5 hours out of 24 as 'severe service', the psychology of marketing notwithstanding.
---------------------------
Most vehicles on the road are considered(by the pros) to be driven severe,contrary to what you just said!!
-------------------------------------------
Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from?? Many heavy duty industrial applications use mineral oil because of their very massive oil sump capacities,oil pre-lube/pre-heat systems,fuel pre-heat systems,by-pass filtration systems,overall heavy duty design, and heavy duty/more than adequate cooling systems...all of which allows for mineral oil.
Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.
I bet this ship in the link below didn't have synthetic oil......
http://www.solomonstarnews.com...ns-out-of-engine-oil
Railroad engine oil is not synthetic..
http://www.chevron.com/product...EngineOilreprint.pdf
Ironically,it's the smaller applications that are far harder on oil than say...a ship or even a train engine.
My lawn mower,and pressure washer manuals recommend synthetic oil. Many new cars are coming from the factory with synthetic oil! All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.
I don't know what world you are living in,but I live in the real world and deal with real world facts....NOT OPINIONS!!! I have posted dozens of links to show the proof. Here is another!!
http://www.industrysearch.com....ill-your-engine-4536
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Current mineral engine oil formulations are hardly 'status quo' compared to those of decades past.
------------------------------------------
Lamont,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!
The definition of status quo is not,nor never was... the referencing of past-to-present like you are doing with the statement.."decades past".
Synthetics have their place, but that place is primarily in industrial formulations, which is where the real severe service applications live. I have a real hard time envisioning a unit that typically operates maybe 4-5 hours out of 24 as 'severe service', the psychology of marketing notwithstanding.
---------------------------
Most vehicles on the road are considered(by the pros) to be driven severe,contrary to what you just said!!
-------------------------------------------
Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from?? Many heavy duty industrial applications use mineral oil because of their very massive oil sump capacities,oil pre-lube/pre-heat systems,fuel pre-heat systems,by-pass filtration systems,overall heavy duty design, and heavy duty/more than adequate cooling systems...all of which allows for mineral oil.
Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.
I bet this ship in the link below didn't have synthetic oil......
http://www.solomonstarnews.com...ns-out-of-engine-oil
Railroad engine oil is not synthetic..
http://www.chevron.com/product...EngineOilreprint.pdf
Ironically,it's the smaller applications that are far harder on oil than say...a ship or even a train engine.
My lawn mower,and pressure washer manuals recommend synthetic oil. Many new cars are coming from the factory with synthetic oil! All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.
I don't know what world you are living in,but I live in the real world and deal with real world facts....NOT OPINIONS!!! I have posted dozens of links to show the proof. Here is another!!
http://www.industrysearch.com....ill-your-engine-4536
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Current mineral engine oil formulations are hardly 'status quo' compared to those of decades past.
------------------------------------------
Lamont,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!
The definition of status quo is not,nor never was... the referencing of past-to-present like you are doing with the statement.."decades past".
quote:Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from??"
Just a wild guess, absolutely nothing to do with 35 years in the lube business in assignments ranging from analytical testing, formulation, technical service, quality control, quality assurance, blending, bulk shipping, on the bench, in the office, on the dock, on the loading rack and other stuff and places I only dimly remember now.
As far as what gets used (and mis-used) where, 10 years of tech service gave me the least useful knowledge. Back in those days, industrial problems were work. Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief. (Since you appear pretty humorless, I feel obliged to reveal there was sarcasm in the above.)
quote:Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.
There is less a one-size-fits-all description of industrial applications than for personal automotive applications. You are truly displaying an astounding ignorance here. We could fill the CRC Handbook of Lubrication with only what you don't know and it wouldn't be much thinner.
Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.
As you rant, synthetics are being developed for gas turbines. Synthetics are making inroads in paper machine applications. Because of the 'out-of-sight-out-of-mind' aspect, lots of conventional hydraulic systems are going syn (yeah, no condensation or stop-start issues there).
quote:All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.
Because cars are emotional (like you) and industrial stuff is data driven. When a significant industrial component fails, there is an investigation. If the lube failed, the supplier typically just pays for the part, rather than paying for the part and a bunch of lawyers. In my experience (10 years of tech service) it's typically a lubrication failure (misapplication of some sort), not a lubricant failure. When there are lawsuits, they don't make much news. Keep listening to the AM Top 40 station; I'm going to listen to the underground college station.
quote:,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!
By that convoluted 'logic', so is any current synthetic. The impression you appear to be trying to convey is that development of mineral ceased when synthetics came out, which is either ignorant or disingenuous (a euphemism for 'you're lying').
quote:There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!
If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.
Shills are funny.
Miro told him everything he knows.
And he heard every thing he knows from his uncle.
Before the accusation comes up, I'm not Lamont. Don't have the experience he does.
quote:Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont
Shills are funny.
That could be the quote of the year. I like that!
Like Abbott and Costello. Before my time, funny none the less.
AD
quote:Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
[QUOTE] Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from??"
Just a wild guess, absolutely nothing to do with 35 years in the lube business in assignments ranging from analytical testing, formulation, technical service, quality control, quality assurance, blending, bulk shipping, on the bench, in the office, on the dock, on the loading rack and other stuff and places I only dimly remember now.
As far as what gets used (and mis-used) where, 10 years of tech service gave me the least useful knowledge. Back in those days, industrial problems were work. Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief. (Since you appear pretty humorless, I feel obliged to reveal there was sarcasm in the above.)
quote:Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.
There is less a one-size-fits-all description of industrial applications than for personal automotive applications. You are truly displaying an astounding ignorance here. We could fill the CRC Handbook of Lubrication with only what you don't know and it wouldn't be much thinner.
Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.
As you rant, synthetics are being developed for gas turbines. Synthetics are making inroads in paper machine applications. Because of the 'out-of-sight-out-of-mind' aspect, lots of conventional hydraulic systems are going syn (yeah, no condensation or stop-start issues there).
quote:All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.
Because cars are emotional (like you) and industrial stuff is data driven. When a significant industrial component fails, there is an investigation. If the lube failed, the supplier typically just pays for the part, rather than paying for the part and a bunch of lawyers. In my experience (10 years of tech service) it's typically a lubrication failure (misapplication of some sort), not a lubricant failure. When there are lawsuits, they don't make much news. Keep listening to the AM Top 40 station; I'm going to listen to the underground college station.
quote:,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!
By that convoluted 'logic', so is any current synthetic. The impression you appear to be trying to convey is that development of mineral ceased when synthetics came out, which is either ignorant or disingenuous (a euphemism for 'you're lying').
quote:There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!
If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.
Shills are funny.
Lamont quoted:quote:
Because cars are emotional (like you)...
-------------------------------------------------------
Now who's getting all emotional with that long meandering rant of yours.........is there a point in there somewhere?? I certainly made my point,and It sure struck a nerve I see!
I showed two industrial examples(ship/train) using mineral oil,and you get all huffy!!
By the way,you never did answer me when I asked what kind of lube you install in your "grocery getter",and how often you change it!
Prove to me that the API standards are NOT STATUS QUO! Your rant makes no sense,nor does it give an intelligible rebuttal. It was a well written rant,I'll give you that!!
Let's build on the fact that the API-standared IS.....STATUS QUO.....
http://motoroilbible.com/blog/...exos-motor-oil-spec/
QUOTE FROM LINK ABOVE...
"However, this is a giant leap from the currently accepted norm,"
http://www.performanceboats.co...owthread.php?t=66777
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
"The American Petroleum Institute (API) sets minimum for performance standards for lubricants. "
quote:
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!
Lamont quoted:
If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.
Lamont...........Wanna Run that by me again! My inaccurate definition,and the English language you say. Really! You do speak and read English,so READ THIS!!!
A quote from the Article just to give you some insight!! "Disruptions in status quo often lead to improvements"
http://www.allbusiness.com/sci...logy/11507094-1.html
Lamont quoted...
Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.
Lamont,did you forget that fast? We are discussing motor oil,not gearboxes,hydraulics,and circulatory systems! Nice diversionary tactic! Maybe you should have had two cups of coffee before you posted!!
Lamont quoted:
"Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief."
Comic relief!! The only thing comical is your theatrical posts,Lamont.
You must be smoking some really good cigarettes if you think that automotive problems are comical! I've never seen any comic relief when people get hit with the repair bill for their "grocery getter" at the service writers desk..... Unless of course,you happen to be the service writer,mechanic,or some guy named Lamont within earshot of the bill!! Is that your idea of comedy,Lamont! People are losing their homes,but a repair bill is comical?? SMOKE ANOTHER!
If you are satisfied with the minimum.........so-be-it! I desire something better than minimum!!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont
Shills are funny.
That could be the quote of the year. I like that!
Like Abbott and Costello. Before my time, funny none the less.
AD
I don't know. The late Billy Mays was entertaining. Synlubbers and its defenders are just...... sad. Don't like it when you don't accept their word. Or question their extraordinary claims.....
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
I don't know. The late Billy Mays was entertaining. Synlubbers and its defenders are just...... sad. Don't like it when you don't accept their word. Or question their extraordinary claims.....
Trajan,anything intelligent to say today...........nah,didn't think so!!
[QUOTE]
Is that what they do now in the U.S. Navy where you are........the minimum?? I bet not!
I like to go for the A+,and achieve a higher standard. I use the minimum standard simply as a starting point,not an ending point! I want the Best! What Do you want?
QUOTE]
My point is standards are set, people live up to them, exceed them or ship out. Pretty basic, if you don't make rank by a certain time, "the standard" or sooner, and decide to re-up they tell you thanks for serving, and ask you to leave. You meet "the standard", get rank by the time allocated for it or sooner, you stay. W/O that we'd have people who are sub-par, not good.
We all want the A+ Kirk, but is seems you and Miro are the only two people posting here who awarded yourselves an A+. Certainly not the API.
AD
Is that what they do now in the U.S. Navy where you are........the minimum?? I bet not!
I like to go for the A+,and achieve a higher standard. I use the minimum standard simply as a starting point,not an ending point! I want the Best! What Do you want?
QUOTE]
My point is standards are set, people live up to them, exceed them or ship out. Pretty basic, if you don't make rank by a certain time, "the standard" or sooner, and decide to re-up they tell you thanks for serving, and ask you to leave. You meet "the standard", get rank by the time allocated for it or sooner, you stay. W/O that we'd have people who are sub-par, not good.
We all want the A+ Kirk, but is seems you and Miro are the only two people posting here who awarded yourselves an A+. Certainly not the API.
AD
quote:By the way,you never did answer me when I asked what kind of lube you install in your "grocery getter",and how often you change it!
You'd have to ask Sniffy that one. He'll tell you "Whatever Artie has in stock".
Um, I'm a fictional character, in case you failed to notice. As such I probably don't own a car. Ask my limo driver.
Final answer - irrevelant. In 40 years of driving, I've never lost a component prematurely due to lubricant failure. I must be using one of the many approaches that work.
And yes, the F-150, the Avalon (230K with no sludge issues to date in a NOTORIOUS engine) and the Miata are all grocery-getters, regular people cars used the way regular people use them. I have no pretentions that my daily drive to the office is the 24 Hours at Le Mans.
I save that sort of attention for my collection of quirky old bass guitars and my hot-wired '68 Fender Band Master, where the extra attention pays off in improved tonal quality.
The only grade for synlube is an F-. Still after all these years a garage setup. Mail drops for addresses. False claims to operate in an area closed to the general public.
Can't even meet its own viscosity that it advertises. Unable to provide any verifiable data, yet defended by a misguided misanthrope who attacks anyone who questions it.
Not possible to get a grade of A if it can't even get a passing grade.
Can't even meet its own viscosity that it advertises. Unable to provide any verifiable data, yet defended by a misguided misanthrope who attacks anyone who questions it.
Not possible to get a grade of A if it can't even get a passing grade.
quote:Trajan
You simply cannot handle the fact that BMW makes crapy cars, so you back to your unfounded and false claims attacks.
Why don’t you find ONE person in the WORLD that had a single problem with SynLube ?
Because NO ONE EVER DID HAVE any issue that is in 32 years of the SAME EXACT FORMULA, while all the other oil lube companies have changed all they make every 3 to 4 years !
Why BEACUSE the stuff they made before just did not cut it when API just slightly ups the MINIMUM bar for performance.
Why would NAVY MED order SynLube for their YAMAHA gen sets ? May be they want to kill everyone they operate on in emergency situations and want the gensets to fail so they do not have to finish the job !!!
ADFD1 can probably explain that one since he claims to be US Navy.
Why would I bother Miro aka Fool. How about you tell us. And remember if you don't like the USA you can always leave.
BTW I am not US Navy. I proudly serve in the US Navy, the very best Navy in the World!
How about some proof the US Navy bought anything from you? Proof not some tall tale.
AD
BTW I am not US Navy. I proudly serve in the US Navy, the very best Navy in the World!
How about some proof the US Navy bought anything from you? Proof not some tall tale.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why would I bother Miro aka Fool. How about you tell us. And remember if you don't like the USA you can always leave.
BTW I am not US Navy. I proudly serve in the US Navy, the very best Navy in the World!
How about some proof the US Navy bought anything from you? Proof not some tall tale.
AD
AD. If you are really in the Navy,then you should be able to deny or confirm the Syn-lubed--YAHMAHA Genny!
BTW.......I can prove I use Synlube...if you ever swing on by sailor,you can check out all my vehicles.....and see for yourself there is Synlube in all the perfect running engines.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why would I bother Miro aka Fool. [QUOTE]
http://www.cars101.com/recalls.html
Apparently the 6 speed Subaru with API GL Oil are EXPLODING the transmissions and it already happened to quite few people in just under 3,000 miles !!!
Apparently there is major screw up in the M6 transmission and since so few people buy manuals (even in Subaru) they only just noticed that there are lube holes missing in the case to supply oil to one of the major bearings, so they MELT and EXPLODE.
[QUOTE]
Looks like the transmission issue is True....just like synlube. I have never seen Miro lie about anything. I only see you making false accusations.....all the time.
BTW......I too have never 'made' up any stories,and you have never been able to rebuttal any of my post because the truth cannot be discredited!!