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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm



The very link I refered to.

■On any vehicle, if you can't afford synthetic oil, check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil.
synlube isn't it.



This is also from the link,and it is the crux of the matter you seem to be avoiding!!

in the struggle to pass tougher federal emissions specifications, car manufacturers have raised engine operating temperatures and increased exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 1996, tighter federal emissions standards were enacted. Fuel mixtures have to run leaner, and leaner mixtures cause higher combustion temperatures. When nitrogen in the air is raised to higher temperatures it is converted into new contaminant cocktails. By 1997, sludge is appearing as a major problem.

After 1996, tighter emissions standards added pressure to the oiling system, and problems appeared.


The above statements from the link nails it. Yes,some people neglect changing their cheap mineral oil further compound a pre-existing condition and sludge up their engines that much faster-----but the majority of sludge is from using low tech oil in high tech engines,and that is a fact! That'S why sludge issues suddenly went up exponentially,yet the number of motorists/cars remained basically static.


This is also from the link and nails it again--just some more facts!!


Federal pressures for more fuel economy in cars and trucks led car manufacturers to design engines for lower viscosity motor oils. Lighter oils tend to break down faster under urban driving conditions.


I recommend synthetic motor oil to all my customers to prevent sludge. Why?

Synthetic lubricants cost just slightly more than conventional oils, but offer the best engine protection because: * synthetics remain stable at high temperatures (conventional oils break down faster at today's higher engine temps) * synthetics remain fluid at very low temperatures (conventional oils thicken) * additive packages are formulated with special chemicals for top cleaning and anti-oxidant protection
-----------------------------------------------------------

However,I use synlube,don't change it,and I don't have any sludge---including my cut open oil filters that are flawless and clean!
Aeration induced sludge information.

http://www.machinerylubricatio...oil-analysis-varnish

Take note to the references in the above link!

The so-called 'dirt' in motor oil(mineral/dino/G-III) did not come from the outside of your engine!! The source of dirt/insolubles is---the OIL ITSELF!! This is not new information! These particles are sludge/carbon are in fact-----ABRASIVE(cause wear),among other things!

quote:

The result envisioned is the creation of a submicron, carbonaceous resin particle at each location previously occupied by an air bubble. The degradation is a thermal-oxidative decomposition of the oil. These tar-like particles accumulate in the oil

because they are insoluble suspensions, they have a tendency to seek a more stable domicile. As they move about in the oil they make random contact with cool machine surfaces. The cooler oil at surface boundaries draws the particles near, to condense and adhere. One theory suggests that the particles migrate out of the oil by Van der Waals forces (weak attractive chemi-absorptive energy) while another considers electromechanical forces such as dielectrophoresis. Whatever the attraction, these polar microscopic specks of carbon matter will eventually adhere and populate the exposed metal walls. Initially the carbon residue may be gum-like and sticky but over time they can become thermally cured and form hard, enamel-like films.

-----------------------------------------------------


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Anecdotes still do not constitute data.



So, give us some data then,Trajan, instead of your usual ANECDOTES!

Now that you understand the definition of data as displayed by your above post-----I assume data is just around the corner from you??

Nah,who am I kidding! Your not capable of providing data--like I have been,and will continue doing! You just don't have it---never did---never will!! Go back to the sidelines........'old boy'..where you belong!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I've never seen an intelligible and factual rebuttal from you,Lamont---so instead you make a feeble 'attempt' to smear me....how typical when one is losing in a debate!! Still waiting for the converter rebuttal. That was a real foot-in-mouth gaffe!


Something you and your two buddies excell at.
Not a single rebuttal that is either intelligible, or factual. Many smear attempts that are worse than feeble.

Losing a debate indeed.


Data, not feeble smears are wanted.
Last edited by trajan
The info, references, in the above posts make sense, Kirk. It's obvious that Synlube is doing a good job keeping your engine(s) clean. You are using products in your various machines that represent a lot of money. I'm certain that if you suspected that you were doing any harm to your various machines, you would stop using Synlube in a heartbeat. Your record keeping is very systematic and accurate. I'm not buying into the "viscosity issue." How many random samples were tested? How many different labs did the testing over how many samples? I may be wrong, but one or two samples tested by one or two labs may not be very very meaningful. I put more weight on your on-going, long-term "successful" usage. Tearing down those various pieces of machinery would be meaningful, too, but whose got the time and money for such extensive tests?
inHaliburton-
quote:
Tearing down those various pieces of machinery would be meaningful, too, but whose got the time and money for such extensive tests?


I agree inhaliburton, an engine tear down/'mike' up will reveal everything!

However,most engines-good or bad, don't get torn down unless there is a desire to fix vs trade in the car.

In my case,both now, and in the past with the older cars,the engines all ran like a tops. A tear down just for fun would be crazy,unless one is in the racing circuit!

There would also be tell-tale signs if an engine is getting worn,such as-burning oil,power loss,fuel economy drop,noise,smoke,etc. If none of those issues ever arise,life is good,and so is the oil!

I should also mention that cutting open the oil filters for inspection is very telling as well.

Using those filter mags isn't a bad idea either,especially during oil filter inspections-whether using Synlube oil,or another lubricant.

Well guy's... have a great weekend!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD


Must be something new for synlube, anti foam agents. Meeting it's advertised viscosity in a pair of VOAs would be new too. And a valid business address.

Synlube shills are a perfect example of LOPSOD. (Long on promise, short on delivery.)
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).


"Accepted rate" my arse.

Acceptable to GM when some poor sap who paid tens-of-thousands of dollar for a Good Money car tell his woes to a Service Salesperson who tells the poor sap, "That's normal oil consumption. Enjoy paying for a quart/liter of oil every 2000 miles, or sooner, for the rest of this car's life. Next!"

Behind the poor sap is a Good Money company executive to tells the same Good Money Service Salesperson the same story and gets, "Sure, we'll fix it under warranty."
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).


"Accepted rate" my arse.

Acceptable to GM when some poor sap who paid tens-of-thousands of dollar for a Good Money car tell his woes to a Service Salesperson who tells the poor sap, "That's normal oil consumption. Enjoy paying for a quart/liter of oil every 2000 miles, or sooner, for the rest of this car's life. Next!"

Behind the poor sap is a Good Money company executive to tells the same Good Money Service Salesperson the same story and gets, "Sure, we'll fix it under warranty."



Hello,inHaliburton. I totally agree with you. I was once one of those 'saps' at the dealer many years ago. Those mechanics/reps talk down to the customers all the time thinking the customers are clueless.

This could be a factor in the downfall of many of the dealerships today!
Last edited by annieoakley
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD



I wouldn't be so sure about that AD.

Let's focus on engine oil foam issues for a while...

Some proof of oil foam in the link below....just for starters!!! In this case it looks like Redline is better at foaming than the other oils in this one example,just to make the case that foaming is an issue with many brands of lube.

http://www.kawasakimotorcycle....bout-engine-oil.html

If the oil is already prone to sludging---the foaming only agravates that issue further causing increased oxidation...besides all the other foam related issues!!!
I'm new on this forum so, Hello everybody.

On the subject of "MFG approved" oil.

On of my brother is in charge of the "replacement parts department" in a quite big OPEL dealer (I live in europe).
A few years back (5 or 6 he remember) they began to have customers having trouble with some of their engines loosing power after a few thousand Km. Everything was running fine except that the power was gradualy disappearing more and more every day.

Guess what it was ? The camshaft was almost totally worn out due to friction with the tappets!!!!
Yes, an almost round camsaft!!

He reported the failures to OPEL as did the other OPEL dealers he knows of, who had the same problem (my guess is that it must have been in other country too).

OPEL investigated the problem and solved it by sending to the dealers.....a different oil!!!! The original "MFG approved" oil that my brother bought for the servicing in their garage was apparently not so appropriate.

My point is that manufacturers don't necessarily knows what's best for their cars. They don't test everything, in every way possible because it would cost them too much.
Of course, this is an extreme example but I think it illustrates well the point.

When discussing "MFG approved" oil and "OEM original parts", lets not forget that the main goal of nearly every industry is to MAKE MONEY RIGHT KNOW !
Of course, long-term reputation is still (hopefully) a small part of the equation but, thanks to the very pressing stock exchange market we live in, this is becoming less of a concern for them. And if you think that "big oil" isn't contaminated, well, welcome in wonderland.

We are responsible too for this state of affair (not all of us hopefully): people don't want to keep their car, TV, computer,phone, camera, etc...forever. They want the newest.
So, the industry responded kindly with products that last just long enough for their "expected live-span".

I'm not saying that there isn't any "good" products out there, but they are vanishing more and more every day.

Caillou
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The oil came out of an unmarked steel drum fitted with a hand pump. This was around 1964. It was either SAE 40 or SAE 30. No W !

Nope, not yet. Truck still under warranty. Would have to change oil every 5000 km.



That is some vinatge oil.

According to Kirk/Miro there are no worries using Synlube in a new car under warranty. The dealer would have to prove the oil caused a problem. Honestly I wouldn't touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole so don't go by me. But according to them you'll have no problems.

I wonder if they'll back you up if you did use it and have a problem? Smart move on your part sir waiting it out!


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