Oil Decision Time.

quote:

Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I hear ya

I think any of the oils you listed will work fine in the Bimmer. If I could "will" myself to going 10K OCI's I would run RP or GC all the time in the Titan. But I am conservative and run 5-6K on syn and 3-4K on dino juice.

These Jim Wolf cams have made a big difference on the Titan. Mid-range power band is much wider. I will find out tomorrow how they handle tugging a 19' Key West flats boat (My buddy lets me borrow it).

Dave

Thw M1 0w-40, the two Castrols I've used, so I know they work, The others are hard to find. I've seen the Pento at a National Auto. Everything else looks like mail order.

Nothing wrong with being conservative. You beefed up the motor, so it's a good thing anyway. You already use quality oil/filter, so you're good.

Sometimes I want to get more HP. But every BMW forum I look at says the same thing. Forced induction. The stock engine is pretty much maxed out as it is, so a software update/CAI/headers/catback will only give about 3-5 more.

Anyway, enjoy the weekend!!!

Interesting choices. Thanks!! I'll look them over.

And the winner is......

Mobil 1 0w-40. Meets all three specs, and was $6.27/qt at a Walmart.

Just can't beat that for now.

Think about what the oil would be outside the U.S without CAFE screwing it up?? Cheers..s

Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.

You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?

As oppossed to the non oil that amsoil reccommendsa for a 2004 Z4?

Engine Oil
Grade 1......SEO[1]
No AMSOIL Product Recommendation

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage...1&url2=2004+BMW+Z4+8

Nice to see you both have oils suggestions.

Oh, wait........... you don't.

LAMONT....
"Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?"

"Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke."


TIM..
"You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?"
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Tajan Said.....
Nice to see you both have oils suggestions.
Oh, wait........... you don't.[/QUOTE]

____________

I guess if you were a little more perceptive,Trajan....you would realize they both do have a suggestion...................that would be........to rethink your final decision about who the "winner is" as you stated earlier. They both know something about oil,you apparently..........don't.

I am not really sure what this thread is about since you have basically answered your own question in your first post. You already have stated that you use GC or M1. What oil decision are you looking for....................to change to another brand after all these years!

Why don't you take your own advice,Trajan............and ask BMW! Why ask us!!! What do we Know! BMW IS YODA IN YOUR CASE! SO USE THEIR APPROVED OIL,AND BE DONE WITH IT!

Your Quote...

"Engine makers know more about their engines than anyone. So I'm a big proponent of using mfg approved oil in my engine."


ENOUGH SAID............

I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason.

AD

No Tim, I'm talking batch data, not formulation data. But you knew that.

Engine stand testing is a funny business because many of those tests are so complex that it is really easy to get a false fail (especially if that's what you wanted in the first place) but practically impossible to get a false pass. That is why those are some of the rare cases where it is an ethically valid practice to test until you pass.

With the possible exception of D 2272 for industrial oils, very few tests that would be used for batch certification fall into that category. Batch tests of necessity tend to fall into the 'go-no go' category.

Pulling a single batch and running a complex engine test once doesn't give you any useful data unless it's a pass in most cases.

Isn't it time for your Amsoil drum circle or something?

quote:

Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.

Lamont, I have a question, if I am choosing between 2 oil's and they both have tests is it fair to say that these tests are just pure Marketing to try and get me to buy there oil.

Would it be better to compare 2 different motor oil's by looking at each motor oil's PRODUCT DATA SHEETS.

I could then compare 40 Degree Celcius and 100 Degree Celcius Numbers

I could compare Flash Point and Pour Points.

I could compare HTHS Numbers as well as how both oil's do in the so called Cold Pumpability Test.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason.

AD

One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.

The oils I listed not only claim it, but can prove it. Unlike, well, you know, that oil that can't meet it's advertised weight.

The links BLK listed really intrigued me. All good oils. Just couldn't convince myself to go with that weight.

Thanks to those who made the suggestions before I chose what I did.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.

So true. Very easy to sit safely on the sidelines and say what you'd do if you were in the game. Stating you're the best, but since you're not part of it you enjoy the easy life having nothing to prove.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.

So true. Very easy to sit safely on the sidelines and say what you'd do if you were in the game. Stating you're the best, but since you're not part of it you enjoy the easy life having nothing to prove.

AD

What game! The game of politics? The only real game,the only real proving ground......is the market place,and how the masses play,or not!

If a product is not what it claims,the market place will brutally shoot it down! There is no easy life in the real world,Ad!

Its easy when you decide not to participate in certifications then claim you exceed them. Seems the market place decided that Mobil is #1, and everyone compares themselves to Mobil 1.

True there is no easy life in the real world, but some companies try and make it easier and cheaper by shooting their mouths off that they're the best but not playing in the game.

AD

quote:

Seems the market place decided that Mobil is #1, and everyone compares themselves to Mobil 1.

Mobil 1 decided to be number One(sales volume wise),because they are...............Big oil.

Throw enough money at something........and you too, can be number one!

However,what has the market place determined to be.....THE BEST OIL?

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
Its easy when you decide not to participate in certifications then claim you exceed them.

AD

Which brings to mind the following:

Keep in mind that unlike standard oil industry approvals, where an oil can get a grade by being within a range of criteria, OEM-approved oils use a set of standards that have been tested on your vehicle and been proven to work. I would be surprised if a company that uses the term "exceeds" spent the money to have an OEM test its oil only to receive a letter that says, "We're sorry but your product is too good, we can't offer you approval." The same thing holds true with the use of the term "meets." Since the other oil companies don't spend the time and money to have the OEM, how would they know it meets the requirement? Plus, if it did really meet the requirement then it would be an approved oil.

Some people like to cry foul and say that they don't think it's right for a car manufacturer to dictate what type of oil to use, especially if another oil company says their product exceeds their specifications. The other oil company might throw up some test and show some proof that their oil is superior to an approved oil brand. But there really is only one test for approval and that's the real-world test, which includes extensive testing of emissions, oxidation, wear-and-tear distribution on moving metal-to-metal parts, fuel economy, and severe wear-and-tear testing (about 600 hours of continued use) on your type of vehicle.

I even told one purveyor of a certain oil that, provided he buy the engine, I'd use his oil. I'd even spring for the Dyson lab work.

The fact that he declined shows the level of faith in his product.

API certs. good or bad are a starting point and help the consumer. Maybe not the greatest testing in the world, but they are something. Sitting back not participating then tooting your own horn IMO about how great a product is would be a bunch of BS.

You want to make claims the product is better then get into the game. I can home brew my own oil and say how great it is too, putting my money where my mouth is would be another story. Since these companies claim these tests are expensive I see that as a half truth and an easy way out. Oh yea and a way to increase profit...............My $.02

AD

Trajan said....

quote:

I even told one purveyor of a certain oil that, provided he buy the engine, I'd use his oil. I'd even spring for the Dyson lab work.

The fact that he declined shows the level of faith in his product.

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Using your nutty logic Trajan,would that also apply to Goodyear tire as well if they didn't buy you a car if you promised to install their tires?

Let's also ask Mobil(using your logic-or lack of) to buy you a car if you promise to gas up for ten years with their fuel-with a signed contract even. That would be the most equitable agreement possible,and guess what Xom(mobil) would still tell you......


In sum........using, 'your logic',Goodyear tires are junk,and so is Mobil gas?


Any other brilliant conclusions Trajan,we're all on the edge of our seats!

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
API certs. good or bad are a starting point and help the consumer. Maybe not the greatest testing in the world, but they are something. Sitting back not participating then tooting your own horn IMO about how great a product is would be a bunch of BS.

You want to make claims the product is better then get into the game. I can home brew my own oil and say how great it is too, putting my money where my mouth is would be another story. Since these companies claim these tests are expensive I see that as a half truth and an easy way out. Oh yea and a way to increase profit...............My $.02

AD

Well Ad,what is stopping you? You too can get into the business as a tribologist/oil blender. Show'em how it's done! I bet those fees would make you think twice when it really cuts into your bottom line.

Why not just put the money into making a better product instead,like some are doing........and quite well at that!

Now, what I can't figure out, is.......Big oil with it's deep pockets should have no problems making the Best motor oil lube............SO WHY DON'T THEY?

Aren't they(big oil) already making more than enough from selling fuel.......to us! What gives! I have to buy their lousy gas...........and oil too! Instead,I will support the little guy making a quality lube product!