+1 on Bear's comment. Thanks AD for serving. Most of my Family has or is serving, USN and one is Army 82nd Airborne. Me, I was the black sheep and went into Law Enforcement.
Dave
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
For those of you who think that ARX is cleaning up your engine by virtue of the filter media.....
QUOTED..
"ARX's lanolin esters are semi-solid and rather large particles. I have filtered the virgin product with coffee filters which caught a lot of these particles on the filter. It looked like jelly and I think that this is what you are seeing here."
THE LINK
fficial%26channel%3Ds%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/imgres?i...%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1
QUOTED..
"ARX's lanolin esters are semi-solid and rather large particles. I have filtered the virgin product with coffee filters which caught a lot of these particles on the filter. It looked like jelly and I think that this is what you are seeing here."
THE LINK
fficial%26channel%3Ds%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/imgres?i...%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1
You really need to stop spreading bad information.
Like this: https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...4995/m/242104424/p/6
Like this: https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...4995/m/242104424/p/6
quote:Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
My Drop to the bucket:
Just like oil will surface to the surface no matter what BP may claim about it, lies and deceptions will eventually surface too.
So synlube like..........
They'll call it a small problem, replace the filter and send the customer a qt of oil. Once the oil lite comes on the damage has been done. It might not be immediate, and that's Amsoil's out, but damage has been done.
How much once again Amsoi's out and anyones's guess. A year two down the road if the car starts blowing smoke or using oil you think Amsoil will help? I don't.
I'll stick with what I can buy locally and change when the mfg suggests. Extended drain oils and filters are not my cup of tea.
Good point Trajan: The last thing Miro wants is anything floating to the surface about his oil. Somethings are best left at the bottom of the sea!
AD
How much once again Amsoi's out and anyones's guess. A year two down the road if the car starts blowing smoke or using oil you think Amsoil will help? I don't.
I'll stick with what I can buy locally and change when the mfg suggests. Extended drain oils and filters are not my cup of tea.
Good point Trajan: The last thing Miro wants is anything floating to the surface about his oil. Somethings are best left at the bottom of the sea!
AD
Ad said
What point? You actually read his crap!
quote:Good point Trajan:
What point? You actually read his crap!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'll stick with what I can buy locally and change when the mfg suggests. Extended drain oils and filters are not my cup of tea.
AD
No reasonable person should have a problem with that. Quality dino/synth oil and filter along with a reasonable oci is the way to go.
Too many links have been posted that show what happens when you don't.
I'm going to try a 10K oci with a filter change when I add oil. (Burn a qt @6k)
Trajan quoted..
AAHHH...the truth comes out once again! You burn oil,and have sludge/varnish issues(You admit to using A-RX).............GOTCHA !!!!!
So, let's sum up your "STELLAR" results with this..........the so called "MFG APPROVED OIL" you're using and swear by.... is really working out well I see.......engine is burning the stuff,and the oil also sludge/varnishes up the engine. All those 'expensive' oil changes with your "Approved oil",and all the flushes,rinses,chemicals,TCW3 in the fuel(don't tell BMW/EPA),etc,etc,............SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE PROVEN MY POINT QUITE WELL-conventional wisdom/techniques don't work so well...do they!
The above issues Trajan is dealing with,is the reason why I use Synlube.
I have zero sludge,zero varnish,(zero oil burning/loss/evaporation),no chemicals or flushes ever needed,and No worries!
quote:I'm going to try a 10K oci with a filter change when I add oil. (Burn a qt @6k)
AAHHH...the truth comes out once again! You burn oil,and have sludge/varnish issues(You admit to using A-RX).............GOTCHA !!!!!
So, let's sum up your "STELLAR" results with this..........the so called "MFG APPROVED OIL" you're using and swear by.... is really working out well I see.......engine is burning the stuff,and the oil also sludge/varnishes up the engine. All those 'expensive' oil changes with your "Approved oil",and all the flushes,rinses,chemicals,TCW3 in the fuel(don't tell BMW/EPA),etc,etc,............SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE PROVEN MY POINT QUITE WELL-conventional wisdom/techniques don't work so well...do they!
The above issues Trajan is dealing with,is the reason why I use Synlube.
I have zero sludge,zero varnish,(zero oil burning/loss/evaporation),no chemicals or flushes ever needed,and No worries!
These are all quotes from the 'other site',where everyone is still hung up on VOA,and lab results being unreliable.
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"As for “simple” VOA and UOA Lab results, they are traditionally variable. Those from Oil Company Labs when testing their own products are certainly better. At a recent visit to Daimler AG in Unterturkheim, I was assured that they do their own VOAs on FF lubricants as a matter of course. Variances in supply quality do occur!
and the 0w-40 is not synthetic basestock? also, viscosity as published is an average value not an exact one. look at
Yes. Most oil companies give averages on their PDS sheets and UOA's all depend on the calibration of the test equipment and which human did them. I've had VOA's done in the past where I questioned the additive level. Resent samples three times from the same bottle and got back three different answers. All within the 10% range
The Blackstone 100C vis of 13.36 cSt is quite a bit off the M1 PDS spec' of 14.0 cSt (used to be 14.3 in the not too distant past).
That's something to keep in mind when reviewing UOAs from this lab particularly when assessing how shear prone M1 0W-40 is reported to be.
This seems to happen far too often. I know VOA/UOA are relatively inexpensive via Blackstone but having to send out a sample to verify a sketchy result does add up. It seems the adage "you get what you pay for" does apply to oil analyses. "
VOA's are not a good way to answer your question Shup1. They are good to have for reference in comparison to UOA's to see what changes occured during use. You cannot rate an oil bt its VOA
Some might be close, but when a VOA is even over a year old, it's pretty much old news. When a VOA is 4+ years old, there is almost 100% certainty it been changed by the formulator. Driven by improvement, specification chasing, cost, new and discontinued additives - lubricant formulas change.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAVE YOUR MONEY GUYS. ......ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS IS LONG TERM PERFORMANCE,AND ACTUAL RESULTS!!! THOSE TESTS(VOA/UOA) ARE CERTAINLY GOOD AT DRAINING YOUR WALLETS-IF NOTHING ELSE! THAT'S WHY I HAVE NEVER BOTHERED!
-------------------------------------
"As for “simple” VOA and UOA Lab results, they are traditionally variable. Those from Oil Company Labs when testing their own products are certainly better. At a recent visit to Daimler AG in Unterturkheim, I was assured that they do their own VOAs on FF lubricants as a matter of course. Variances in supply quality do occur!
and the 0w-40 is not synthetic basestock? also, viscosity as published is an average value not an exact one. look at
Yes. Most oil companies give averages on their PDS sheets and UOA's all depend on the calibration of the test equipment and which human did them. I've had VOA's done in the past where I questioned the additive level. Resent samples three times from the same bottle and got back three different answers. All within the 10% range
The Blackstone 100C vis of 13.36 cSt is quite a bit off the M1 PDS spec' of 14.0 cSt (used to be 14.3 in the not too distant past).
That's something to keep in mind when reviewing UOAs from this lab particularly when assessing how shear prone M1 0W-40 is reported to be.
This seems to happen far too often. I know VOA/UOA are relatively inexpensive via Blackstone but having to send out a sample to verify a sketchy result does add up. It seems the adage "you get what you pay for" does apply to oil analyses. "
VOA's are not a good way to answer your question Shup1. They are good to have for reference in comparison to UOA's to see what changes occured during use. You cannot rate an oil bt its VOA
Some might be close, but when a VOA is even over a year old, it's pretty much old news. When a VOA is 4+ years old, there is almost 100% certainty it been changed by the formulator. Driven by improvement, specification chasing, cost, new and discontinued additives - lubricant formulas change.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAVE YOUR MONEY GUYS. ......ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS IS LONG TERM PERFORMANCE,AND ACTUAL RESULTS!!! THOSE TESTS(VOA/UOA) ARE CERTAINLY GOOD AT DRAINING YOUR WALLETS-IF NOTHING ELSE! THAT'S WHY I HAVE NEVER BOTHERED!
Kirk- I hardly think Trajan has a problem. Burning a qt of oil in 6000 miles is not considered a problem. A car mfg considers oil consumption a problem when an engine uses more than 1 qt/1000 miles, anything else is considered normal.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk- I hardly think Trajan has a problem. Burning a qt of oil in 6000 miles is not considered a problem. A car mfg considers oil consumption a problem when an engine uses more than 1 qt/1000 miles, anything else is considered normal.
AD
You're right. It isn't a problem. It's far from a problem. The dealer doesn't see it as a problem. My mechanic doesn't. People who own and drive these cars, unlike kirk, don't see it as a problem.
No synlube, no worries.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk- I hardly think Trajan has a problem. Burning a qt of oil in 6000 miles is not considered a problem. A car mfg considers oil consumption a problem when an engine uses more than 1 qt/1000 miles, anything else is considered normal.
AD
You're right. It isn't a problem. It's far from a problem. The dealer doesn't see it as a problem. My mechanic doesn't. People who own and drive these cars, unlike kirk, don't see it as a problem.
-------------------------------------------
Well...then your all blind...or ignoring the obvious! Your engines are not in stellar condition.
If I were the dealer, I would also tell you the car is fine,and then say........"have a nice day and be sure to come back when the warranty runs out--and your ready for an engine overhaul"............OUT OF WARRANTY OF COURSE! LOL
Just a simple question:
Why is $46,000 car worth only $14,000 when it runs out of the 4 year 50,000 miles Warranty ?
That is the $32,000 question !!!
May be there is reason for it = it is BMW....
The Ultimate sucker machine, and the fact that it sucks oil too; is just part of the "Unique owner Experience".
Infact BMW depreciation rate is just about the same as that of a HYUNDAI, i.e. in used car business it is valued the same, that alone should be a clue.
(Except for MINI which while sold by BMW dealers from spearate showroom is not real BMW - fortunately, and thus it has the hihgest reseale value in the car industry)
Why is $46,000 car worth only $14,000 when it runs out of the 4 year 50,000 miles Warranty ?
That is the $32,000 question !!!
May be there is reason for it = it is BMW....
The Ultimate sucker machine, and the fact that it sucks oil too; is just part of the "Unique owner Experience".
Infact BMW depreciation rate is just about the same as that of a HYUNDAI, i.e. in used car business it is valued the same, that alone should be a clue.
(Except for MINI which while sold by BMW dealers from spearate showroom is not real BMW - fortunately, and thus it has the hihgest reseale value in the car industry)
All cars depreciate, it's called reality. How about those Yugos? What a joke they were.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
All cars depreciate, it's called reality. How about those Yugos? What a joke they were.
AD
The explaination goes over his head. He should also realize that, in time, many cars do increase in value. Depends on many things though.
A pristine 1969 Camaro with the right options is worth more than a new 2011 model. Today, an old Isetta, well, http://autos.aol.com/used-list...-BMW/model1-Isetta/, which is far more than it costs when new.
He's only frothing at the mouth due to the very harsh light we've thrown on synlube. and the product came up short.
I would also explain to him that the 15K service on a BMW is much more than a simple oil change. But that would go over his head too.
We all know what a Yugo is worth. Even an Edsel is worth far more.
I also see that, and there is no surprise there, that once again, he can't back his "claims".
A free hint miro. Making fun of BMW doesn't faze me. Just displays the on going ignorance you convey. Good for a laugh or two.
Yugos sell for what, $100, if that now?
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise.
KBB values based on real transaction prices in 2010
BLUE BOOK® PRIVATE PARTY VALUE
Close
Private Party Value
Kelley Blue Book Private Party Value is the amount a buyer can expect to pay when buying a used car from a private party. The Private Party Value assumes the vehicle is sold "As Is" and carries no warranty (other than any remaining factory warranty). The final sale price may vary depending on the vehicle's actual condition and local market conditions. This value may also be used to derive Fair Market Value for insurance and vehicle donation purposes.
1990 YUGO GV Value
Excellent $2,300
Good $2,150
Fair $1,650
Not bad for a car that was $5,225 MSRP and sold for about $4,900 in 1990 to be worth that much 20 years later.
This is data from the came company that depreciates BMW 62% in the first year of ownership, while MINI is worth 62% of its price 36 months later.
But still YUGO tops the list it is worth 41% of its original price (if not beat up) 20 years LATTER !!!
Compare that to most cars that are worth that much (less) just in 12 to 18 months !!!
BLUE BOOK® PRIVATE PARTY VALUE
Close
Private Party Value
Kelley Blue Book Private Party Value is the amount a buyer can expect to pay when buying a used car from a private party. The Private Party Value assumes the vehicle is sold "As Is" and carries no warranty (other than any remaining factory warranty). The final sale price may vary depending on the vehicle's actual condition and local market conditions. This value may also be used to derive Fair Market Value for insurance and vehicle donation purposes.
1990 YUGO GV Value
Excellent $2,300
Good $2,150
Fair $1,650
Not bad for a car that was $5,225 MSRP and sold for about $4,900 in 1990 to be worth that much 20 years later.
This is data from the came company that depreciates BMW 62% in the first year of ownership, while MINI is worth 62% of its price 36 months later.
But still YUGO tops the list it is worth 41% of its original price (if not beat up) 20 years LATTER !!!
Compare that to most cars that are worth that much (less) just in 12 to 18 months !!!
Compare that with BMW and that is one of the "top" models: 2010 BMW M6
MSRP $$106,225.00
New 100% $102,350.00
2 45% $46,057.50
3 37% $37,869.50
4 30% $30,705.00
5 24% $24,564.00
It is 45% of its value after just 12 months, dont you wish you have YUGO ? It's value drops almost $4,000 even before it is driven off the dealer's lot - how is that for a "great" car ?
MSRP $$106,225.00
New 100% $102,350.00
2 45% $46,057.50
3 37% $37,869.50
4 30% $30,705.00
5 24% $24,564.00
It is 45% of its value after just 12 months, dont you wish you have YUGO ? It's value drops almost $4,000 even before it is driven off the dealer's lot - how is that for a "great" car ?
MY point of all of this is, in case you have missed it:
Great vehicles no matter the make or model retain its value over time.
Poor vehicles lose their value very very quickly.
As simple as that.
If BMW retained it's value Trajan would not be able to afford even the used one.
NO ONE Can argue with that, the data is there and available to every one, but if you elect to stick your head into a sand dune that of course is you privilege.
Similarily data is availalble about the problems conventional lubircants cause, like sludge, gel, varnish, excessive oil consumption, and so on.
I accept the fact that BMW may have "special" low tension rings, but that does not explain why cars converted to a better lubricant at low mileage DO NOT consume much oil, while those serviced at BMW for FREE do develop such "problem" when the warranty is over or in just 50,000 miles.
NO one seems to report that their car lost 2 quarts or more before the FIRST service was due, but by 45,000 iles the same vehicle "burns" oil - WHY ???
May be the 15,000 + service intervals are just TOO LONG for the stuff the BMW dealers use in these vehicles.
Clearly when the engine leaves the BMW assembly it is as perfect as can be, it is only latter that it develops the "oil consumption", so something DOES NOT last.
And if the oil you use makes a difference then of course it is lubrication related issue.
Well actually more like Tribological Issue as friction, wear and lubrication all play a role in that scenario.
And do not think of this as SynLube promotion, simple as I have stated before we have BMW customers that did not use the FREE BMW service and NONE have oil consumption issues, while those that waited for the FREE and WARRANTY to expire FIRST before they switched all are asking why is my car burning so much oil.
It is not one in many vehclies issue; it is statistically proveable trend with identical experience shared my many.
Just search the web -------
Great vehicles no matter the make or model retain its value over time.
Poor vehicles lose their value very very quickly.
As simple as that.
If BMW retained it's value Trajan would not be able to afford even the used one.
NO ONE Can argue with that, the data is there and available to every one, but if you elect to stick your head into a sand dune that of course is you privilege.
Similarily data is availalble about the problems conventional lubircants cause, like sludge, gel, varnish, excessive oil consumption, and so on.
I accept the fact that BMW may have "special" low tension rings, but that does not explain why cars converted to a better lubricant at low mileage DO NOT consume much oil, while those serviced at BMW for FREE do develop such "problem" when the warranty is over or in just 50,000 miles.
NO one seems to report that their car lost 2 quarts or more before the FIRST service was due, but by 45,000 iles the same vehicle "burns" oil - WHY ???
May be the 15,000 + service intervals are just TOO LONG for the stuff the BMW dealers use in these vehicles.
Clearly when the engine leaves the BMW assembly it is as perfect as can be, it is only latter that it develops the "oil consumption", so something DOES NOT last.
And if the oil you use makes a difference then of course it is lubrication related issue.
Well actually more like Tribological Issue as friction, wear and lubrication all play a role in that scenario.
And do not think of this as SynLube promotion, simple as I have stated before we have BMW customers that did not use the FREE BMW service and NONE have oil consumption issues, while those that waited for the FREE and WARRANTY to expire FIRST before they switched all are asking why is my car burning so much oil.
It is not one in many vehclies issue; it is statistically proveable trend with identical experience shared my many.
Just search the web -------
I find it quite funny reading this. Miro are you trying to say a Yugo is a better car than a BMW? Then trying to make the case for your oil?
Bad move, pick another car, YUGO was/is a POS. You're not selling your oil by pointing out that Yugo is a good car. People vote with their check books, and YGUO failed horribly in the USA. Anyone I ever heard talk about them called them throw away cars, and garbage. I think most here will agree?
Lets take a vote: Pick a car to own, anything from BMW, or anything from YUGO?
Then or now?
I'll sound off with BMW.
AD
Bad move, pick another car, YUGO was/is a POS. You're not selling your oil by pointing out that Yugo is a good car. People vote with their check books, and YGUO failed horribly in the USA. Anyone I ever heard talk about them called them throw away cars, and garbage. I think most here will agree?
Lets take a vote: Pick a car to own, anything from BMW, or anything from YUGO?
Then or now?
I'll sound off with BMW.
AD