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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

This drama-queen cat fight isn't even remotely interesting anymore and I'm not sure if it was ever informative.

Use a fighting-grade oil & change every 3 months or use a high-quality syn (no PIB, no GrpIII, no plasticizer) and extend your drain based on hard data of some sort, or fall somewhere in between. It may all come down to how you drive your vehicle. Maybe there's not a one-size-fits-all solution? Maybe the path you choose is all a matter of personal and/or lifestyle preference and doesn't really say much about your moral or intellectual character?

Maybe any of those approaches, taken thoroughly & responsibly, will allow your engine to outlast the rest of your chassis?

Henry Ford used to send engineers to the junkyards buy & tear apart old Fords to see which parts were still in good shape. Then FoMoCo would design a less robust version for the next iteration. He didn't see the point of throwing quality away. I don't get the obsession with making sure the engine is pristine when the rest of the rusting hulk is towed to the junkyard.

If this is the most important thing you guys have to argue about, I'd trade problems with any of you straight up.
It is not the place of the courts to declare a product garbage, The marketplace determined Yugos are garbage a decade ago or so.

I think this is what he meant to say: "Now send me ONE FACT that can in court of law prove beyond any doubt that YUGO is not a GARBAGE !!!


Synth oil is overkill for many apps. No reason to use it if your engine is not spec'd for it.

Good dino/synth oil, along with a reasonable OCI, along with the use of a good filter, and routine maintainenece, goes a long way towards sludge prevention. And a good engine design doesn't hurt either.

Isn't the oil's fault if you run extended drains. Or if you run the wrong viscosity. Or an obsolete spec.

Isn't the oil's fault if you don't fix those leaking head/intake maniflod gaskets. Or never check your PCV.

It isn't the oil's fault if you fail to check the dipstick.

It's the fault of the cheap nut who owns it.
Last edited by trajan
Seems at leat 3 of us agree using a qt of oil in 6K miles is no big deal, a qt in 4000 miles would be no big deal either. Try taking a new car in for warranty work and tell the service writer you used a qt of oil in 4000 miles and see what he tells you. They will do nothing unless they see an oil leak.

Imgaine what a Yugo dealer would have said back in the day? LOL

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
All engines use oil, just some more than others.

Around the year 1963 I got out of racing, sold my ride. I needed a cheap ride so bought a 1930 something Chev, had running boards, suicide doors, stick coming right out of the tranny, and a back seat that was like a sofa. Can't remember the year, but it cost me $50. Every Saturday I would drive to Yonge St. and Lawrence Ave. in Toronto to a gas station that sold bulk oil out of large steel drums for .90 per gallon. I went through a gallon of 30 weight oil every week.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I suggest you back off Lamont, he knows a lot more than you do. He has no agenda, and he's respected here. he's not considered a joke like you and your teacher are.

AD



Nothing against Lamont.

However,he is against anything better than status-quo for the typical "Grocery getter"-as he calls it!

I,on the other hand, have never settled for status quo,especially when there is something much better,and the norm has failed many motorists based on the facts,and history!!!
Shop cars, train station cars, grocery getters, or old beaters I always felt should get maintained but there is no point spending top $ on oil. Save the big $ oil for the best cars of the fleet. Besides in most applications the entire car will rot and fall apart long before the engine fails, unless the engine is a poor design or specifically calls for synthetic oil. This has been proven time and time again. Most car buffs spend more than they have to for oil and filters. Proper maint, and proper intervals for changing oil is the key to long engine life.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Shop cars, train station cars, grocery getters, or old beaters I always felt should get maintained but there is no point spending top $ on oil. Save the big $ oil for the best cars of the fleet. Besides in most applications the entire car will rot and fall apart long before the engine fails, unless the engine is a poor design or specifically calls for synthetic oil. This has been proven time and time again. Most car buffs spend more than they have to for oil and filters. Proper maint, and proper intervals for changing oil is the key to long engine life.

AD


It has been proven time and time and ......... time, again.

But due to the reasons pointed out by BLK above, it just does not register with some.

All this nonsense that conventional oil is bad, or causes sludge, is just that, nonsense.

Cars still come factory filled with it. Oil companies still make it. Millions of cars still run on it.

Using synth oil along with 3-5k oil changes or when your engine doesn't call for it is like using 93oct in an engine that calls for 87.

Certainly using synth in a Yugo is throwing money away.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

It has been proven time and time and ......... time, again.

But due to the reasons pointed out by BLK above, it just does not register with some.

All this nonsense that conventional oil is bad, or causes sludge, is just that, nonsense.

Cars still come factory filled with it. Oil companies still make it. Millions of cars still run on it.

Using synth oil along with 3-5k oil changes or when your engine doesn't call for it is like using 93oct in an engine that calls for 87.

Certainly using synth in a Yugo is throwing money away.


I agree and time and time again my father and uncle have proven it to me. Synthetic oil has its place but it is not for everyone. Especially in the beater class of cars.

I'd like to add to your comment about using synthetic oil in a Yugo is throwing away money. Using anything in a Yugo including gas was throwing away money. Simply buying one was a waste of cash. There were cars in the day with 100,000 miles or more on them that were still better than a new Yugo. My dad told me a funny story about a test drive he did in one of them. Garbage/Junk was a compliment!

AD
Current mineral engine oil formulations are hardly 'status quo' compared to those of decades past. Additive & base oil technology are constantly improving. Used properly, minerals will serve a great majority of automotive applications effectively.

Synthetics have their place, but that place is primarily in industrial formulations, which is where the real severe service applications live. I have a real hard time envisioning a unit that typically operates maybe 4-5 hours out of 24 as 'severe service', the psychology of marketing notwithstanding.

Sorry if I hurt the feelings of any latent adolescents when I call their dream supercars 'grocery-getters', but that's the reality. Severity of service is about actual service, not engineering. You're most likely running to the Wawa more often than you are running in the Paris to Dakar road rally.
walah........after 15pages should we discuss this 4life again?.......
enoch

QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk, I suggest you back off Lamont, he knows a lot more than you do. He has no agenda, and he's respected here. he's not considered a joke like you and your teacher are.

AD



Nothing against Lamont.

However,he is against anything better than status-quo for the typical "Grocery getter"-as he calls it!

I,on the other hand, have never settled for status quo,especially when there is something much better,and the norm has failed many motorists based on the facts,and history!!![/QUOTE]
LS-9 - Syn Because it is my pet CPA CFOs and she wants it that way

Hemi - Syn, Because I want it that way to make me feel better about my extended drain intervals. In this case, it pays.

'Glide. Syn in the crankcaase because it is air cooled and hot. Needs it. The other 2 reservoirs, mineral or semi syn gear lube. Good for 5,000 miles crank and 20,000 in primary and tranny.

Kids cars. -Good mineral. They need the life experience of keeping up with it.

Lawn crap, are you kidding me!.....

But, bottom line, Lamont is right. They're grocery getters except for that few weeks a year when my truck goes to the beach and lives in 4 WD full time.
Last edited by robertc
Given that there is a significant personal preference aspect to all of this, there are plenty of legitmate holes to poked in my personal preference (perfection being conceptually impossible in our current sphere of existence). I'm just not sure I've read any of them in this thread.

Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe', as could the vehicle used for two solid weeks in 4WD. (Did I hear it would be in sand?)
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
......

Air-cooled engines, depending on how they are used, could approach 'severe', as could the vehicle used for two solid weeks in 4WD. (Did I hear it would be in sand?)


Yep, a nice little secluded beach. My actual max is 9 days with no asphalt.

But sooner or later, you run out of something and have to go to town.

And a few hours later, back to Nirvana
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:

Synthetics have their place, but that place is primarily in industrial formulations, which is where the real severe service applications live. I have a real hard time envisioning a unit that typically operates maybe 4-5 hours out of 24 as 'severe service', the psychology of marketing notwithstanding.
---------------------------
Most vehicles on the road are considered(by the pros) to be driven severe,contrary to what you just said!!
-------------------------------------------

Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??

Where is that coming from?? Many heavy duty industrial applications use mineral oil because of their very massive oil sump capacities,oil pre-lube/pre-heat systems,fuel pre-heat systems,by-pass filtration systems,overall heavy duty design, and heavy duty/more than adequate cooling systems...all of which allows for mineral oil.

Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.

I bet this ship in the link below didn't have synthetic oil......

http://www.solomonstarnews.com...ns-out-of-engine-oil

Railroad engine oil is not synthetic..

http://www.chevron.com/product...EngineOilreprint.pdf


Ironically,it's the smaller applications that are far harder on oil than say...a ship or even a train engine.

My lawn mower,and pressure washer manuals recommend synthetic oil. Many new cars are coming from the factory with synthetic oil! All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.

I don't know what world you are living in,but I live in the real world and deal with real world facts....NOT OPINIONS!!! I have posted dozens of links to show the proof. Here is another!!

http://www.industrysearch.com....ill-your-engine-4536


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Current mineral engine oil formulations are hardly 'status quo' compared to those of decades past.
------------------------------------------

Lamont,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!

There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!

The definition of status quo is not,nor never was... the referencing of past-to-present like you are doing with the statement.."decades past".
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from??"


Just a wild guess, absolutely nothing to do with 35 years in the lube business in assignments ranging from analytical testing, formulation, technical service, quality control, quality assurance, blending, bulk shipping, on the bench, in the office, on the dock, on the loading rack and other stuff and places I only dimly remember now.

As far as what gets used (and mis-used) where, 10 years of tech service gave me the least useful knowledge. Back in those days, industrial problems were work. Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief. (Since you appear pretty humorless, I feel obliged to reveal there was sarcasm in the above.)

quote:
Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.


There is less a one-size-fits-all description of industrial applications than for personal automotive applications. You are truly displaying an astounding ignorance here. We could fill the CRC Handbook of Lubrication with only what you don't know and it wouldn't be much thinner.

Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.

As you rant, synthetics are being developed for gas turbines. Synthetics are making inroads in paper machine applications. Because of the 'out-of-sight-out-of-mind' aspect, lots of conventional hydraulic systems are going syn (yeah, no condensation or stop-start issues there).

quote:
All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.


Because cars are emotional (like you) and industrial stuff is data driven. When a significant industrial component fails, there is an investigation. If the lube failed, the supplier typically just pays for the part, rather than paying for the part and a bunch of lawyers. In my experience (10 years of tech service) it's typically a lubrication failure (misapplication of some sort), not a lubricant failure. When there are lawsuits, they don't make much news. Keep listening to the AM Top 40 station; I'm going to listen to the underground college station.

quote:
,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!


By that convoluted 'logic', so is any current synthetic. The impression you appear to be trying to convey is that development of mineral ceased when synthetics came out, which is either ignorant or disingenuous (a euphemism for 'you're lying').

quote:
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!


If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.

Shills are funny.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
[QUOTE] Industrial being the primary place for synthetic you say??
Where is that coming from??"


Just a wild guess, absolutely nothing to do with 35 years in the lube business in assignments ranging from analytical testing, formulation, technical service, quality control, quality assurance, blending, bulk shipping, on the bench, in the office, on the dock, on the loading rack and other stuff and places I only dimly remember now.

As far as what gets used (and mis-used) where, 10 years of tech service gave me the least useful knowledge. Back in those days, industrial problems were work. Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief. (Since you appear pretty humorless, I feel obliged to reveal there was sarcasm in the above.)

quote:
Industrial applications benefit from continuous run cycles,no dry starts,no condensation issues,no endless warm up/cool down thermal cycles,etc,etc. Massive diesel engines in industry don't really need synthetic the way a modern day hot running car engine does.


There is less a one-size-fits-all description of industrial applications than for personal automotive applications. You are truly displaying an astounding ignorance here. We could fill the CRC Handbook of Lubrication with only what you don't know and it wouldn't be much thinner.

Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.

As you rant, synthetics are being developed for gas turbines. Synthetics are making inroads in paper machine applications. Because of the 'out-of-sight-out-of-mind' aspect, lots of conventional hydraulic systems are going syn (yeah, no condensation or stop-start issues there).

quote:
All of the sludging issues and lawsuits were with the auto industry,not typically industrial.


Because cars are emotional (like you) and industrial stuff is data driven. When a significant industrial component fails, there is an investigation. If the lube failed, the supplier typically just pays for the part, rather than paying for the part and a bunch of lawyers. In my experience (10 years of tech service) it's typically a lubrication failure (misapplication of some sort), not a lubricant failure. When there are lawsuits, they don't make much news. Keep listening to the AM Top 40 station; I'm going to listen to the underground college station.

quote:
,By definition,and by their own admission,current mineral oil(API))........IS STATUS QUO--AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT IN HISTORY!


By that convoluted 'logic', so is any current synthetic. The impression you appear to be trying to convey is that development of mineral ceased when synthetics came out, which is either ignorant or disingenuous (a euphemism for 'you're lying').

quote:
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!


If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.

Shills are funny.

quote:
Lamont quoted:
Because cars are emotional (like you)...
-------------------------------------------------------



Now who's getting all emotional with that long meandering rant of yours.........is there a point in there somewhere?? I certainly made my point,and It sure struck a nerve I see!

I showed two industrial examples(ship/train) using mineral oil,and you get all huffy!!

By the way,you never did answer me when I asked what kind of lube you install in your "grocery getter",and how often you change it!

Prove to me that the API standards are NOT STATUS QUO! Your rant makes no sense,nor does it give an intelligible rebuttal. It was a well written rant,I'll give you that!!


Let's build on the fact that the API-standared IS.....STATUS QUO.....

http://motoroilbible.com/blog/...exos-motor-oil-spec/

QUOTE FROM LINK ABOVE...
"However, this is a giant leap from the currently accepted norm,"

http://www.performanceboats.co...owthread.php?t=66777

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

"The American Petroleum Institute (API) sets minimum for performance standards for lubricants. "


quote:
There is no other definition for mineral oil,because it meets minimum standards..................therefore it is just that........status quo!!


Lamont quoted:
If you want to be taken seriously, I first thought you needed to learn A LOT about lubricants and lubrication. Now it seems we need to pull back further. You need to learn a little about the English language first. By your inaccurate definition, synthetics can be mis-characterized as 'status quo' as well.

Lamont...........Wanna Run that by me again! My inaccurate definition,and the English language you say. Really! You do speak and read English,so READ THIS!!!

A quote from the Article just to give you some insight!! "Disruptions in status quo often lead to improvements"

http://www.allbusiness.com/sci...logy/11507094-1.html

Lamont quoted...

Wind turbine gearboxes (actually most industrial gearboxes, period) down-hole hydraulics, a significant chunk of refinery circulating systems, anything on the deck of ship, and that's just what comes quickly to mind while still on my first cup of coffee.

Lamont,did you forget that fast? We are discussing motor oil,not gearboxes,hydraulics,and circulatory systems! Nice diversionary tactic! Maybe you should have had two cups of coffee before you posted!!

Lamont quoted:

"Personal automotive 'problems' were comic relief."

Comic relief!! The only thing comical is your theatrical posts,Lamont.

You must be smoking some really good cigarettes if you think that automotive problems are comical! I've never seen any comic relief when people get hit with the repair bill for their "grocery getter" at the service writers desk..... Unless of course,you happen to be the service writer,mechanic,or some guy named Lamont within earshot of the bill!! Is that your idea of comedy,Lamont! People are losing their homes,but a repair bill is comical?? SMOKE ANOTHER!



If you are satisfied with the minimum.........so-be-it! I desire something better than minimum!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont

Shills are funny.


That could be the quote of the year. I like that!

Like Abbott and Costello. Before my time, funny none the less.

AD


I don't know. The late Billy Mays was entertaining. Synlubbers and its defenders are just...... sad. Don't like it when you don't accept their word. Or question their extraordinary claims.....
Last edited by trajan
[QUOTE]

Is that what they do now in the U.S. Navy where you are........the minimum?? I bet not!

I like to go for the A+,and achieve a higher standard. I use the minimum standard simply as a starting point,not an ending point! I want the Best! What Do you want?

QUOTE]

My point is standards are set, people live up to them, exceed them or ship out. Pretty basic, if you don't make rank by a certain time, "the standard" or sooner, and decide to re-up they tell you thanks for serving, and ask you to leave. You meet "the standard", get rank by the time allocated for it or sooner, you stay. W/O that we'd have people who are sub-par, not good.

We all want the A+ Kirk, but is seems you and Miro are the only two people posting here who awarded yourselves an A+. Certainly not the API.

AD
quote:
By the way,you never did answer me when I asked what kind of lube you install in your "grocery getter",and how often you change it!


You'd have to ask Sniffy that one. He'll tell you "Whatever Artie has in stock".

Um, I'm a fictional character, in case you failed to notice. As such I probably don't own a car. Ask my limo driver.

Final answer - irrevelant. In 40 years of driving, I've never lost a component prematurely due to lubricant failure. I must be using one of the many approaches that work.

And yes, the F-150, the Avalon (230K with no sludge issues to date in a NOTORIOUS engine) and the Miata are all grocery-getters, regular people cars used the way regular people use them. I have no pretentions that my daily drive to the office is the 24 Hours at Le Mans.

I save that sort of attention for my collection of quirky old bass guitars and my hot-wired '68 Fender Band Master, where the extra attention pays off in improved tonal quality.
The only grade for synlube is an F-. Still after all these years a garage setup. Mail drops for addresses. False claims to operate in an area closed to the general public.

Can't even meet its own viscosity that it advertises. Unable to provide any verifiable data, yet defended by a misguided misanthrope who attacks anyone who questions it.

Not possible to get a grade of A if it can't even get a passing grade.
quote:
Trajan


You simply cannot handle the fact that BMW makes crapy cars, so you back to your unfounded and false claims attacks.

Why don’t you find ONE person in the WORLD that had a single problem with SynLube ?

Because NO ONE EVER DID HAVE any issue that is in 32 years of the SAME EXACT FORMULA, while all the other oil lube companies have changed all they make every 3 to 4 years !

Why BEACUSE the stuff they made before just did not cut it when API just slightly ups the MINIMUM bar for performance.

Why would NAVY MED order SynLube for their YAMAHA gen sets ? May be they want to kill everyone they operate on in emergency situations and want the gensets to fail so they do not have to finish the job !!!

ADFD1 can probably explain that one since he claims to be US Navy.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why would I bother Miro aka Fool. How about you tell us. And remember if you don't like the USA you can always leave.

BTW I am not US Navy. I proudly serve in the US Navy, the very best Navy in the World!

How about some proof the US Navy bought anything from you? Proof not some tall tale.

AD




AD. If you are really in the Navy,then you should be able to deny or confirm the Syn-lubed--YAHMAHA Genny!

BTW.......I can prove I use Synlube...if you ever swing on by sailor,you can check out all my vehicles.....and see for yourself there is Synlube in all the perfect running engines.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Why would I bother Miro aka Fool. [QUOTE]


http://www.cars101.com/recalls.html

Apparently the 6 speed Subaru with API GL Oil are EXPLODING the transmissions and it already happened to quite few people in just under 3,000 miles !!!

Apparently there is major screw up in the M6 transmission and since so few people buy manuals (even in Subaru) they only just noticed that there are lube holes missing in the case to supply oil to one of the major bearings, so they MELT and EXPLODE.
[QUOTE]



Looks like the transmission issue is True....just like synlube. I have never seen Miro lie about anything. I only see you making false accusations.....all the time.

BTW......I too have never 'made' up any stories,and you have never been able to rebuttal any of my post because the truth cannot be discredited!!
Ah, what nonsense...... It isn't for AD to confirm or deny claims that the US Navy uses the swill.

Being that he isn't claiming they do.

Typical of synlube sychophants.

Mtro my dear boy. You don't upset me with your hysterical claim that BMW makes crappy cars. Their Idrive wasn't the brightest idea. still better than a Yugo. Hell. Mattel makes better cars than a Yugo.

I would sak you to explain why their sales are up, but you'd only go into an apoplectic fit.

How many new Yugos have been sold in the US since 1991? Where's the dealer network?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
He lied about his business address and location, for starters. His word on the Subaru story we should take as Gospel? No way.

As far as what oil the Navy uses? I have no clue, prove to me they use Synlube. I'd think they buy their oil from some real company like XOM or Sopus?

AD


Back in the 1980's the Navy dealt with Texaco. That came out during the Pennzoil v Texaco trial. (They claimed national security concerns if they were forced into bankruptcy.) Don't know where they get it now.

He'll probably claim national security reasons for not proving it. It would be nonsense, being that we know who makes all the weapons for our forces.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I laugh when I read this. Because I'm in the Navy I should know what oil they use? Any idea how many different titles/jobs/positions/ratings, etc. the Navy has? Let him prove to me what oil the Navy is using.

Comedy at its best, just like Abbott and Costello.

AD


Yep, you're suppossed to know. They keep trying, and failing, to deflect from the fact that they can't back their claims.
quote:
Final answer - irrevelant. In 40 years of driving, I've never lost a component prematurely due to lubricant failure. I must be using one of the many approaches that work.




I have never lost a component either! I also never blew a tire.......so that means all those tire lawsuits were bogus using your logic!



Never rebuilt any engine because they all ran perfect,even with mineral oil....what you still use apparently! I passed all vehicle emission inspections.....in NJ. Ran several cars I bought used at 100k to over 200k. No big deal!


You would have one heck of an excuse if you lost an engine to a lube failure being in the line of work your in! I just use common sense. Hard to believe a guy using Synlube has common sense.........isn't it!

I used to change the oil in my cars every 2,000 miles to maintain them,even when I first started driving at 17. Common sense told me that!

About 10 years ago I started using synlube......common sense told me then...that it made sense!

I didn't keep doing what the 17 year old boy once did(i.e. keep changing oil)- I moved on to the future----the present!! I Haven't been wrong Yet,and my engines have all proven that!

Use whatever lubricant you desire for your engines,but don't state or imply that my choice is foolish when I know better than anyone on these boards other than a few.......that my approach,and the product I use works...........BECAUSE I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE USING IT!


I don't care if you're 150 years old with five PhD's.........your still not an expert nor in the forefront of the lubrication industry. You're just a guy with a job/career like me!

The only thing I have seen from you Lamont are some well written,and sometimes bizarre meandering rants regarding your opinions that give no substantial facts about lubricants nor any real statistics.

You seem to be against anything other than the old standby, because to you a car is a worthless piece of junk and should be treated as such...or so you imply! It's nothing more than a 'grocery getter'...says it all.

For what it's worth.....my wife's car is the actual grocery getter, and also the pay check getter....and my car is just the paycheck getter!! VW is the standby grocery getter, or whatever getter! The other equipment also running with synlube perform other purposeful functions.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Ah, what nonsense...... It isn't for AD to confirm or deny claims that the US Navy uses the swill.

Being that he isn't claiming they do.




Why not? Ad has been telling us what his Dad uses and thinks,and also what his Uncle thinks and/or does/did!

I used to work on my Dad and Uncles cars..... not just oil changes,that was the easy part! They both came to me for Info,not the other way around...and my dad was a tool and dye maker to boot. I had spent more time under the hood and chassis of my own car than behind the wheel because I had always bought very used cars with good engines,and fixed them up,and I was pretty good at it all around! Still am if needed.........got all the tools,but not much to fix with new cars.

Well Ad,we've heard about your dad,and we've heard about your uncle........Now let's hear what your other Uncle is doing...............UNCLE SAM!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
Well lets see Kirk. I listen to people who I know and respect. My Dad and Uncle fit the bill. You won't find two more knowledgeable people when it comes to engines, how to build them and maintain them. They use oil that works well, base it on the age of the car. No point in wasting money on Synthetic when dino will do the job in a beater. OTOH they use a good synthetic when they feel they need or want to.

While I'm on the topic of respect. I respect and believe Lamont knows about engines and oil. Typically when a person is not doing well in a discussion they attack out of fear. Seems Lamont has you against the ropes. Time for your cheap shots? They aren't working! I'd follow his advise over yours, as would most members on the board. Why? I believe him, he has no agenda, and you haven't proven a thing. You think you have but............Synlube is working for you great. For every Synlube user there are millions and millions of people successfully using Synthetic and dino oils with sludge free good running engines. So what is your point?

As far as my Uncle Sam, it was your comedy team that mentioned Synlube is used by the Navy. Prove it, I have no need to, since: A. I think the story is BS. B. I'll never use the stuff. C. I couldn't care less. Besides it is Miro's homework assignment. Maybe he should prove an address, and a business license and build some credibility first.

AD
His excuses are improving, at least it isn't a top secret story. How about a business license, or an actual business address? A picture of the mfg facility? That should be easy for him, he can even copy and paste something then photoshop it for it for us.

Notice the use of the SS# & DOB. How about Moms maiden name? LOL like someone would give Miro that info. With his stellar track record here I'm surprised he gets a CC number to sell product.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
quote:
Taterandnoodles

Well then it is you who must be buying SynLube since the e-mailed orders also end in @med.navy.mil

Add if you have a security clearance you calim to have you should have absolutely NO problem to verify SynLube purchase orders for YAMAHA generators they just bought 3 of them last week (NEW) that is all I can and will tell you.
quote:
Oil purchases are no great secret. None of that information is required. My digital signature is far more then what is required.


Then prove it post the PO's from SHELL, TEXACO and UNOCAL they all supply oil to Navy.

If it is no secret have the Navy or the Suppliers send you the information, I'll bet you $1,000 you can not get any of that !!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Apparently, you are allowed to know who makes the weapons used, but not who buys this "oil".



Ok...all you 'brain surgeons'.........this is how it done! It's called 'Sherlocking'.

So,what lubricant does the military use now that we're on the subject....

http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...0080417190018AAX4DIL

Re-fined oil.....

http://www.green.ca.gov/EPP/Vehicles/MotorOil.htm

http://aec.army.mil/usaec/news...fall03/fall0319.html

SECRET MILITARY OIL..........THAT'S RIGHT--IT'S A SECRET.........

http://www.omninerd.com/comments/28811


NASCAR SECRET MOTOR OIL..

http://www.newser.com/story/55...on-is-motor-oil.html


BOTTOM LINE..............IT'S A SECRET!! GEE---WHO KNEW??

I'm sure if you kept digging you could prove that synlube is used,Trajan.
quote:
Originally posted by Taterandnoodles:
Perhaps you recall the emails you received from my work account. They end in med.navy.mil aka navy medicine. All of them where signed via PKI which is pulled from my CAC.

Oil purchases are no great secret. None of that information is required. My digital signature is far more then what is required.


Well then it is you who must be buying SynLube since the e-mailed orders also end in @med.navy.mil


Miro quoted....
Add if you have a security clearance you calim to have you should have absolutely NO problem to verify SynLube purchase orders for YAMAHA generators they just bought 3 of them last week (NEW) that is all I can and will tell you.
quote:



Well,Tater.........we are waiting.
quote:
Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
Well then it is you who must be buying SynLube since the e-mailed orders also end in @med.navy.mil



The purchasing agents email ends in med.navy.mil fantastic. Email me their name and I will look them up in global.

Shell does not have to sell lubricants directly although they can if they choose. Any GSA contract holder carrying any of shells products can carry them in their catalog. For Pennzoil (a shell product) the Gov can purchase 10w-30 from:

1. Capital supply, inc,
2. Mensch Mill & lumber,
3. Veteran Logistics inc,
4. Complete Packaging & shipping suppl,
5. Supplycore inc.

This is the 1st 5 I see listed on a non-secure site anyone can access. All of the above vendors hold a GSA contract and can sell motor oil and any other product they carry via said contract.

I am looking at what would be considered small purchases $3k and below although contracts can be awarded for substantial higher amounts.
Ad
quote:
For every Synlube user there are millions and millions of people successfully using Synthetic and dino oils with sludge free good running engines. So what is your point?



You don't know what my point is by now,AD?

OK, here it is...again.................NO (normal) OIL CHANGES ARE NEEDED!!!! Well,maybe every 50-100k if so desired. Sooner, if you're really a maintenance fanatic,and you will get 100% credit for the returned used oil. Then, new free oil is shipped back to you for free.

GET IT NOW,AD?

Let me also add that this oil when it's used, is waayyyyy better than store bought 'new' oil !!!

That's the bottom line point I've been telling you!
______________________________________________________________
I should add re-refined is closed loop meaning its kept in the stock system making it readily available and meeting the required mil-spec.

It does not mean the Gov only uses re-refined oil. My example above is not re-refined and products produced by shell, exxonmobil, castrol and even smaller companies like Royal purple and schaeffers are available from 1 quart to 55 gallon.
Kirk old boy, it's not me who claims the military uses synlube, but your Geppetto who claims it.

Geppetto, once again, made claims that he can't back up. And again, performs the synlube shuffle. And hangs himself, yet again.

My only surprise is that the other puppet isn't here attacking those who question him. Cut the strings perhaps?
quote:
Originally posted by Taterandnoodles:
I should add re-refined is closed loop meaning its kept in the stock system making it readily available and meeting the required mil-spec.

It does not mean the Gov only uses re-refined oil. My example above is not re-refined and products produced by shell, exxonmobil, castrol and even smaller companies like Royal purple and schaeffers are available from 1 quart to 55 gallon.




Good read,Tater!

This part of the read is what many people don't realize.

"Laboratory tests on the finished lubricant cannot determine any difference between the highly re-refined base oil and virgin crude base oil.
Re-refined oil is equivalent in every respect to oil produced directly from crude oil. It undergoes the same comprehensive testing and meets the same quality standards as virgin lubricants"

________________________________________

Of course, the same would apply to genuine synthetic oil being re-refined,just like crude oil.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trajan:
______________________________________


Trajan.......how's that much needed BMW engine overhaul going?? TOO BAD YOU'RE OUT OF WARRANTY...AND LUCK!

Did the dealer re-install the 'factory approved motor oil'.........AGAIN? LOL


Your handle,Trajan..

"They stand on a wall and say "Nothing's going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch."

Funny thing,Trajan......nothing has happened to me or my engines,on any night--or day,or anybodies watch. That handle is.........SPOT ON! You chose it well!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Kirk old boy, it's not me who claims the military uses synlube, but your Geppetto who claims it.

Geppetto, once again, made claims that he can't back up. And again, performs the synlube shuffle. And hangs himself, yet again.

My only surprise is that the other puppet isn't here attacking those who question him. Cut the strings perhaps?


For the past 3 or 4 pages that I've read, Trajan has contributed nothing in the way of information, or anything approaching being intelligent. Just your usual negative remarks, name-calling, insults to Capt. Kirk, Miro and myself.

Trajan, if my safety depended on you being on watch, I would be messing my pants.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Kirk old boy, it's not me who claims the military uses synlube, but your Geppetto who claims it.

Geppetto, once again, made claims that he can't back up. And again, performs the synlube shuffle. And hangs himself, yet again.

My only surprise is that the other puppet isn't here attacking those who question him. Cut the strings perhaps?


For the past 3 or 4 pages that I've read, Trajan has contributed nothing in the way of information, or anything approaching being intelligent. Just your usual negative remarks, name-calling, insults to Capt. Kirk, Miro and myself.

Trajan, if my safety depended on you being on watch, I would be messing my pants.

_____________________________________________

In some respects,Trajan actually has contributed quite a bit,albeit,unwittingly.....that his factory approved "swill"(his term), FAILED!!!!

He has informed us that 'factory approved' oil isn't so good......because his car uses oil(my cars use...none on synlube),and all the other MFG (oil related)issues I have shown with various links.

He slipped we he mentioned that he needed to use AR-X....in vain though,and his engine still uses oil,and loses power-- and I bet more than he revealed!

He also admitted that his valve timing system is in need of repair,no thanks to his 'approved oil'. He stated there is a very short life span for this system,something like 30k,before it needs work.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com...x.php/t-1137071.html

http://members.roadfly.com/jason/BMWrecall.htm

http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm

The vanos system issues I believe are mentioned in the above post. The heat cooks/cokes the 'weak' oil,etc,

Vanos failure is definitely oil related(oh,that pesky approved oil)

http://www.m5board.com/vbullet...-failure-anyone.html


The Bottom line.....with all of Trajans arguments in favor of using factory 'approved oil' for months,and months to date..........TRAJAN HAS NOW FINALLY PROVED THAT HIS "FACTORY APPROVED SWILL"...........HAS FAILED HIM. He has proved my point quite effectively!

Also notice no denial of the engine issues that he has. Why........because it's true!

TRAJAN is like a natural Joe Biden.........always puts his foot in his mouth,and blabs away what he is trying to hide!

Joe Biden/Trajan-same thing!!

http://politicalhumor.about.co...bidens-big-mouth.htm
So I was correct, in all the links Kirk supplied not one mentioned Synlube being bought or used by the Military. Re-refinded oil use is nothing new here.

Nice try Miro once again no proof that the Navy, or any branch of the US Military or any Military uses your product. Remember the Gov't buys from real businesses, that have a real address, and a license. Which BTW you still haven't shown us.

AD
quote:
I have never lost a component either! I also never blew a tire.......so that means all those tire lawsuits were bogus using your logic!

Never rebuilt any engine because they all ran perfect,even with mineral oil....what you still use apparently! I passed all vehicle emission inspections.....in NJ. Ran several cars I bought used at 100k to over 200k. No big deal!

You would have one heck of an excuse if you lost an engine to a lube failure being in the line of work your in! I just use common sense. Hard to believe a guy using Synlube has common sense.........isn't it!

I used to change the oil in my cars every 2,000 miles to maintain them,even when I first started driving at 17. Common sense told me that!

About 10 years ago I started using synlube......common sense told me then...that it made sense!

I didn't keep doing what the 17 year old boy once did(i.e. keep changing oil)- I moved on to the future----the present!! I Haven't been wrong Yet,and my engines have all proven that!

Use whatever lubricant you desire for your engines,but don't state or imply that my choice is foolish when I know better than anyone on these boards other than a few.......that my approach,and the product I use works...........BECAUSE I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE USING IT!

I don't care if you're 150 years old with five PhD's.........your still not an expert nor in the forefront of the lubrication industry. You're just a guy with a job/career like me!

The only thing I have seen from you Lamont are some well written,and sometimes bizarre meandering rants regarding your opinions that give no substantial facts about lubricants nor any real statistics.

You seem to be against anything other than the old standby, because to you a car is a worthless piece of junk and should be treated as such...or so you imply! It's nothing more than a 'grocery getter'...says it all.

For what it's worth.....my wife's car is the actual grocery getter, and also the pay check getter....and my car is just the paycheck getter!! VW is the standby grocery getter, or whatever getter! The other equipment also running with synlube perform other purposeful functions.


Does someone have a Gibberish-to-English dictionary I could borrow? This guy tends to go in a lot of directions at once, but I can usually hang on. He threw mw way early this time (the tire thing) and my GPS won't get me back to the thread, if there is one.

You seem to wasting a lot of energy on someone who you appear to consider irrelevant.

I'll keep preaching "there many 'right' ways, the one you choose is a function of your situation". You can continue to darn any internal combustion engine to Heck if they don't use your Holy Product.

Anyone seen a tearapart of this juice? Are they still using PIB to hit the vis targets? Of course, once you add PIB, you nullify the high VI of the 4-6 cSt PAO, which means now you're in the market for VI improver. Yeah, it's all 'synthetic', but so what?
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
The only VOAs I've seen show it to be either a 30 or 40 wt. None of the three could explain why.

As for a tearapart, it would probably show it to be whatever oil was on sale at Walmart.

"Nothing's going to save you tonight. It's my watch."


Hey Trajan, show us the ultimate proof that Synlube is "swill." Show us that engine belonging to your neighbour that burned up using Synlube that you claim exists. You can't because you know it's a LIE!

Trajan is a LIAR.

Well?
Last edited by inhaliburton
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
The only VOAs I've seen show it to be either a 30 or 40 wt. None of the three could explain why.

As for a tearapart, it would probably show it to be whatever oil was on sale at Walmart.




Also notice no denial of the engine issues that he has. Why........because it's true!


Everyone has noticed you have failed to deny several times over-- your engine issues......using the so-called,FACTORY APPROVED OIL.


Walmart oil would never hold up for 70k in a buick engine. The engine would have seized up from sludge long before 70k. Thats why I used synlube for that purpose,and never had any issues with the buick riviera I spoke of.

However,walmart oil might explain your engine issues. I noticed you seem to like walmart.........and the oil they obviously sold you,which now explains your oil burning issue!!


How much did the dealer charge you for the engine work you had done??
Aside from using a qt of oil in 6000 miles, what is exactly wrong with Trajan's engine?

I read earlier today about a guy with a new V6 Honda who used a qt of the FF in 5000 miles. Does that mean his engine is bad Kirk? What if after 50,000 miles he continues to use a qt of oil every 5000 miles? I'll bet a weeks wages the dealer tells him its normal. You'll say he used the wrong oil and didn't follow proper break in procedure won't you?

AD
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Jun 20, 6:22 PM Hide Post
Beats me how those who have no experience with a product can argue with those who have.

Seems this puppet doesn't understands what it says.

But..... that's what puppets do. Whatever Geppetto aka Miro, tells them.

Kind of figured that low tension piston rings/oil spray jets would be beyond their understanding.

Sad when one says in its profile "to education myself", and fails repeatedly.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Aside from using a qt of oil in 6000 miles, what is exactly wrong with Trajan's engine?

I read earlier today about a guy with a new V6 Honda who used a qt of the FF in 5000 miles. Does that mean his engine is bad Kirk? What if after 50,000 miles he continues to use a qt of oil every 5000 miles? I'll bet a weeks wages the dealer tells him its normal. You'll say he used the wrong oil and didn't follow proper break in procedure won't you?

AD


It isn't a Yugo. That paragon of engineering that won all those awards. Can't even find a 2011 model, they sell so fast....
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Aside from using a qt of oil in 6000 miles, what is exactly wrong with Trajan's engine?

I read earlier today about a guy with a new V6 Honda who used a qt of the FF in 5000 miles. Does that mean his engine is bad Kirk? What if after 50,000 miles he continues to use a qt of oil every 5000 miles? I'll bet a weeks wages the dealer tells him its normal. You'll say he used the wrong oil and didn't follow proper break in procedure won't you?

AD



Ad,what don't you get?

I use synlube and never burn any oil......EVER---IN ANY OF MY CARS/EQUIPMENT!

Trajan's car burns oil,yet my lawn mower burns no oil!

Trajan is a proven liar...he probably burns at least twice what he admits!

I also pasted all the bimmer links proving there is an issue with these engines,especially when run on 'approved' oil. Many are getting re-builds at around 100k.

Trajan has yet to deny any of these facts,including that he needed work done on his engine!

Ad quoted:
"I read earlier today about a guy with a new V6 Honda who used a qt of the FF in 5000 miles."

________________________________

That is the first honda(especailly new),that I have seen use oil. What gives? Sounds defective to me,at least compared to the norm!

"The dealer said it's normal" Dah,what do you expect them to say....."Everyone in the USA gets a free overhaul,due to our defective engines using defective oil". Yeh,that will happen,sure thing!! lol

How often have motorists been told that a defect is......'normal',and just live with it! BULL IF IT WERE ME,I would be on their case with STB'S,recalls,secret recalls,MY LAYWER,etc.until the so called 'normal issue' was.......RESOLVED/FIXED/LEMON LAW,ETC BELIEVE ME!!

If I was burning a quart of oil every 6k with the factory fill/approved oil,............I would use different oil,ASAP..........like Synlube,to solve the issue of burning/evaporation.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Hey Trajan, show us the ultimate proof that Synlube is "swill." Show us that engine belonging to your neighbour that burned up using Synlube that you claim exists.

You can't because you know it's a LIE!

Trajan is a LIAR and doesn't deny it.

Nothing coming out of your mouth can be trusted.

Well?


ihhaliburton. I agree! What a liar! Sad!

Gee,what happened to Nuke-dawg,or did Trajan just put him on ice for a while! Good riddance! He finally got banned,hopefully! Eek
Kirk- If that Honda engine is defective as you say what makes you so sure Synlube will work? Oil can't fix mfg defects.

Lawyers, Honda has more money and better lawyers than most of us. Then there is the standard issue, blanket, industry wide excuse of a qt of oil used in 1000 miles is considered normal. You'd be banging your head against a wall while going broke paying a lawyer. Not to mention Honda calls for 5W20 not 5W50 unapproved oil.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk- If that Honda engine is defective as you say what makes you so sure Synlube will work? Oil can't fix mfg defects.

Lawyers, Honda has more money and better lawyers than most of us. Then there is the standard issue, blanket, industry wide excuse of a qt of oil used in 1000 miles is considered normal. You'd be banging your head against a wall while going broke paying a lawyer. Not to mention Honda calls for 5W20 not 5W50 unapproved oil.

AD


The thinner Honda oil evaporates and sneaks past the piston rings.

The synlube has a much,much lower NOACK number,and seals the rings much better......just for starters.

No, synlube can't fix full blown mechanical defects,but it can compensate/alleviate certain design issues,including oil related issues.

Oil with a relatively high NOACK number will evaporate even in a well designed engine at a faster rate vs a low NOACK. Extremely low vis,and high solvents equates to evaporation losses,and oil use. This evaporation issue is not good for the emission system,and can possibly lead to sludge down the road in certain cases. At the very least it will not keep the system as clean as synlube.

------------------------------------

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml


Well Ad,looks like you're on to something with these Honda's burning oil.

Keep drinking the KOOL-AID------"only use mfg-approved oil"....and burn oil! Yeh,never second guess the mfg...and burn oil!! NOT ME..I KNOW BETTER!! Cool
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk- If that Honda engine is defective as you say what makes you so sure Synlube will work? Oil can't fix mfg defects.

Lawyers, Honda has more money and better lawyers than most of us. Then there is the standard issue, blanket, industry wide excuse of a qt of oil used in 1000 miles is considered normal. You'd be banging your head against a wall while going broke paying a lawyer. Not to mention Honda calls for 5W20 not 5W50 unapproved oil.

AD


The thinner Honda oil evaporates and sneaks past the piston rings.

The synlube has a much,much lower NOACK number,and seals the rings much better......just for starters.

No, synlube can't fix full blown mechanical defects,but it can compensate/alleviate certain design issues,including oil related issues.

Oil with a relatively high NOACK number will evaporate even in a well designed engine at a faster rate vs a low NOACK. Extremely low vis,and high solvents equates to evaporation losses,and oil use. This evaporation issue is not good for the emission system,and can possibly lead to sludge down the road in certain cases. At the very least it will not keep the system as clean as synlube.

------------------------------------

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml


Well Ad,looks like you're on to something with these Honda's burning oil.

Keep drinking the KOOL-AID------"only use mfg-approved oil"....and burn oil! Yeh,never second guess the mfg...and burn oil!! NOT ME..I KNOW BETTER!! Cool


Interesting Kirk, oil too thick for an engine isn't any good either. Ever try and stick a softball in an opening for a golfball? It won't fit, that 50 grade oil is too thick. It will shear as it is forced into too small an opening. I think Honda engineers know a little more than you do. Using a 20 wt or even a 30 wt oil, no problem, a 50 wt, not a good idea. The engine was not designed for it. Will it work? Sure is it the best? No way. Maybe after half a million miles are logged and there's some wear, then a 50 wt might work, until then NG.

Besides that person I am referring to is one person. Honda makes some of the best engines in the world.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Kirk- If that Honda engine is defective as you say what makes you so sure Synlube will work? Oil can't fix mfg defects.

Lawyers, Honda has more money and better lawyers than most of us. Then there is the standard issue, blanket, industry wide excuse of a qt of oil used in 1000 miles is considered normal. You'd be banging your head against a wall while going broke paying a lawyer. Not to mention Honda calls for 5W20 not 5W50 unapproved oil.

AD


The thinner Honda oil evaporates and sneaks past the piston rings.

The synlube has a much,much lower NOACK number,and seals the rings much better......just for starters.

No, synlube can't fix full blown mechanical defects,but it can compensate/alleviate certain design issues,including oil related issues.

Oil with a relatively high NOACK number will evaporate even in a well designed engine at a faster rate vs a low NOACK. Extremely low vis,and high solvents equates to evaporation losses,and oil use. This evaporation issue is not good for the emission system,and can possibly lead to sludge down the road in certain cases. At the very least it will not keep the system as clean as synlube.

------------------------------------

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml


Well Ad,looks like you're on to something with these Honda's burning oil.

Keep drinking the KOOL-AID------"only use mfg-approved oil"....and burn oil! Yeh,never second guess the mfg...and burn oil!! NOT ME..I KNOW BETTER!! Cool


Interesting Kirk, oil too thick for an engine isn't any good either. Ever try and stick a softball in an opening for a golfball? It won't fit, that 50 grade oil is too thick. It will shear as it is forced into too small an opening. I think Honda engineers know a little more than you do. Using a 20 wt or even a 30 wt oil, no problem, a 50 wt, not a good idea. The engine was not designed for it. Will it work? Sure is it the best? No way. Maybe after half a million miles are logged and there's some wear, then a 50 wt might work, until then NG.

Besides that person I am referring to is one person. Honda makes some of the best engines in the world.

AD



I think you meant....Best engines in the world of oil burners...

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml

Softball-golfball?? THAT'S SOUNDS REALLY TECHNICAL!!

I have a Jeep 4.7 that recommends 5w-20,and I use 5w-50 Synlube. Engine runs like a top!!

I do 80-90 on the freeway,and occasional WOT!! Engine runs like a dream! Fuel economy is better than what most claim on the net.

My last several cars all called for 5w-30,and I used 5w-50 synlube. Never any issues in all those....YEARS!!!


Ad quoted:

"Maybe after half a million miles are logged and there's some wear, then a 50 wt might work, until then NG."
___________________________________
500,000 miles=some wear=dream on!

http://www.2carpros.com/topics/oilburn.htm
As shown by his own links, using the wrong viscosity leads to sludge. If Honda thought their engines needed a 50 wt, they'd spec it. simlube doesn't meet said weight though.

Honda makes about 14 million engines of all types a year. Every car at the 2010 Indy 500 was Honda powered, with no failures.

They have a solid rep as engine builders. Unlike Miro and the puppets.

As an aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...l_Engine_of_the_Year

Notice the number if Yugo engines listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

Notice again, the number of Yugo engines. and the number of BMW engines. The M54 among them.

Choke on it puppets.
\
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As shown by his own links, using the wrong viscosity leads to sludge. If Honda thought their engines needed a 50 wt, they'd spec it. simlube doesn't meet said weight though.

Honda makes about 14 million engines of all types a year. Every car at the 2010 Indy 500 was Honda powered, with no failures.

They have a solid rep as engine builders. Unlike Miro and the puppets.

As an aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...l_Engine_of_the_Year

Notice the number if Yugo engines listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

Notice again, the number of Yugo engines. and the number of BMW engines. The M54 among them.

Choke on it puppets.



CHOKE ON THIS...

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

CHOKE ON THIS...

http://www.carcomplaints.com/H...il_consumption.shtml


Hey, nice find Kirk. Imagine. Honda with that attitude and treating customers like that. They are no better than Toyota. Disgusting!


Hey, inhaliburton. Long time no hear! Good to hear from you!

Yep, Thats'why I buy American--except the one VW! Never any problems with any of them.

Although,I am a maintenance fanatic..... always gives better results! I flush all the fluids,such as....power steering,brake fluid,coolant,tranny,gear oil(Synlube gear oil is perm.),etc.

How's the weather in Canada,been really hot/humid down here!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As shown by his own links, using the wrong viscosity leads to sludge. If Honda thought their engines needed a 50 wt, they'd spec it. simlube doesn't meet said weight though.

Honda makes about 14 million engines of all types a year. Every car at the 2010 Indy 500 was Honda powered, with no failures.

They have a solid rep as engine builders. Unlike Miro and the puppets.

As an aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...l_Engine_of_the_Year

Notice the number if Yugo engines listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

Notice again, the number of Yugo engines. and the number of BMW engines. The M54 among them.

Choke on it puppets.


Every thread Abbott And Costello show up in turns to crap. Notice the pattern?

Glad you liked the ball analogy Kirk, I made it so you'd understand.

You can force oil to shear Kirk, especially if it is too thick for the application. I'll take what Honda specs as Gospel for their engines, before I listen to you. Following your logic maybe you and your buddy should go back to the secret location and add some tefflon and moly to 75W90 for your next batch of Synlube. Walmart has some in the automotive department, use that for a host/base oil. That's where you guys are getting the oil for Synlube isn't it?

BTW Kirk Seems BMW builds some nice engines according to the links Trajan posted. Hardly junk, have a look! Honda is on the list too, strange isn't it?

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As shown by his own links, using the wrong viscosity leads to sludge. If Honda thought their engines needed a 50 wt, they'd spec it. simlube doesn't meet said weight though.

Honda makes about 14 million engines of all types a year. Every car at the 2010 Indy 500 was Honda powered, with no failures.

They have a solid rep as engine builders. Unlike Miro and the puppets.

As an aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...l_Engine_of_the_Year

Notice the number if Yugo engines listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

Notice again, the number of Yugo engines. and the number of BMW engines. The M54 among them.

Choke on it puppets.


Every thread Abbott And Costello show up in turns to crap. Notice the pattern?

Glad you liked the ball analogy Kirk, I made it so you'd understand.

You can force oil to shear Kirk, especially if it is too thick for the application. I'll take what Honda specs as Gospel for their engines, before I listen to you. Following your logic maybe you and your buddy should go back to the secret location and add some tefflon and moly to 75W90 for your next batch of Synlube. Walmart has some in the automotive department, use that for a host/base oil. That's where you guys are getting the oil for Synlube isn't it?

AD


Boy you are a real Jar-head! You will take Honda as gospel,even after I debunked your claims. How many more facts do you need......SOLDIER!! KP DUTY FOR YOU!!! DROP AND GIVE ME 50 PUSH UPS....IF YOU CAN!!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
It's Sailor. What exactly have you proven BTW? Now Honda doesn't know how to build an engine or spec an oil? You are kidding aren't you?

AD


SAILOR,I KNOW!

Well,you did see the links I pasted showing quality issues with the honda engines. What didn't you get??

More links..

http://www.hondacarforum.com/a...l-recomendation.html

I recall reading way back,Honda admitted 5w-20 oil will lower the life expectancy of their engines! It's mainly used in the US FOR THOSE PESKY CAFE STANDARDS!!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see Kirk, how many Honda's are on the road? How many people posted in that thread? How are Honda's thought of? What is the % of dissatisfied Honda owners? Every auto maker has complaints, even Yugo.

AD



How may people smoke/drink into their 80's? Plenty!!! Using your logic........smoking is good for you!!!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As shown by his own links, using the wrong viscosity leads to sludge. If Honda thought their engines needed a 50 wt, they'd spec it. simlube doesn't meet said weight though.

Honda makes about 14 million engines of all types a year. Every car at the 2010 Indy 500 was Honda powered, with no failures.

They have a solid rep as engine builders. Unlike Miro and the puppets.

As an aside:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...l_Engine_of_the_Year

Notice the number if Yugo engines listed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

Notice again, the number of Yugo engines. and the number of BMW engines. The M54 among them.

Choke on it puppets.


Every thread Abbott And Costello show up in turns to crap. Notice the pattern?

Glad you liked the ball analogy Kirk, I made it so you'd understand.

You can force oil to shear Kirk, especially if it is too thick for the application. I'll take what Honda specs as Gospel for their engines, before I listen to you. Following your logic maybe you and your buddy should go back to the secret location and add some tefflon and moly to 75W90 for your next batch of Synlube. Walmart has some in the automotive department, use that for a host/base oil. That's where you guys are getting the oil for Synlube isn't it?

BTW Kirk Seems BMW builds some nice engines according to the links Trajan posted. Hardly junk, have a look! Honda is on the list too, strange isn't it?

AD


That they do. Well, their apprentice doesn't exactly improve a thread either. Shivers looking for a spine to run up.

This would all stop if we threw out our integrity and towed the sunlube/yugo line.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see you own a Jeep, the internet is free of Jeep complaints? I doubt it, and didn't have to do a search either.

AD



No complaints with any of my vehicles/equipment...NONE.......I USE SYNLUBE!!


AD QUOTE..

"Following your logic maybe you and your buddy should go back to the secret location and add some tefflon and moly to 75W90 for your next batch of Synlube."


The gear oil(synlube) in my Jeep actually does have teflon,and moly,and graphite. I can see you read the synlube website! Oh,that's right, you didn't read the site.....otherwise you would have know that info!
Ad

quote:
Remember that gets fed dino oil,



Well,what else would a dinosaur use?


In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road. Many states don't have emission inspections so vehicles in disrepair stay on the road....polluting the environment with shot engines that don't belong on the road,and people claim...."but it's still running"!! Many more,actually cheat the system! I have seen many oil burners........in NJ. Some beat the system for a while,until the engine dies or they finally get caught!!

My last buick with 179k passed emission inspection with no issues,and the oil alone had 70k on it!! Check engine light never came on! Try doing that with......DINO OIL!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see Kirk, how many Honda's are on the road? How many people posted in that thread? How are Honda's thought of? What is the % of dissatisfied Honda owners? Every auto maker has complaints, even Yugo.

AD


AD, what makes me wonder if there are only a few Honda engines that are smokers, why don't they bite the bullet and fix them under warranty? That's what bothers me when a auto manufacturer shirks their duty by telling the consumer that it's normal to burn a quart every thousand miles. We all know that's ridiculous.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road. Many states don't have emission inspections so vehicles in disrepair stay on the road....polluting the environment with shot engines that don't belong on the road,and people claim...."but it's still running"!!

Kirk, I'll bet Trajan stays out of NJ with that smoker of his. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road. Many states don't have emission inspections so vehicles in disrepair stay on the road....polluting the environment with shot engines that don't belong on the road,and people claim...."but it's still running"!!

Kirk, I'll bet Trajan stays out of NJ with that smoker of his. Wink



inHaliburton,Notice how Trajan is still dodging the engine overhaul statements I threw at him. Maybe he finally had that oil issue taken care of with a big-fat-repair bill!


Well,I need a break. See ya next week! Have a good weekend!

Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Ad

quote:
Remember that gets fed dino oil,



Well,what else would a dinosaur use?


In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road. Many states don't have emission inspections so vehicles in disrepair stay on the road....polluting the environment with shot engines that don't belong on the road,and people claim...."but it's still running"!! Many more,actually cheat the system! I have seen many oil burners........in NJ. Some beat the system for a while,until the engine dies or they finally get caught!!

My last buick with 179k passed emission inspection with no issues,and the oil alone had 70k on it!! Check engine light never came on! Try doing that with......DINO OIL!!!



NY too where I was born and raised, and where my father and uncle live. That F Series truck still passes the sniffer test, original CC too. With dino oil go figure!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets see Kirk, how many Honda's are on the road? How many people posted in that thread? How are Honda's thought of? What is the % of dissatisfied Honda owners? Every auto maker has complaints, even Yugo.

AD


AD, what makes me wonder if there are only a few Honda engines that are smokers, why don't they bite the bullet and fix them under warranty? That's what bothers me when a auto manufacturer shirks their duty by telling the consumer that it's normal to burn a quart every thousand miles. We all know that's ridiculous.


I don't own a Honda, I own a Ford, and couldn't be happier. Still Honda has quite an impressive track record and following.

That qt/1000 mile excuse has been around for decades I've been told. Seems all car makers use it when a car comes back under warranty using oil. I'm sure Yugo dealers used it a few times too. Smile

AD
quote:
I use synlube and never burn any oil......EVER---IN ANY OF MY CARS/EQUIPMENT!

Trajan's car burns oil,yet my lawn mower burns no oil!


I have to assume that you never actually operate any of this equipment. That's the only way I can imagine that such an absurdly absolutist statement can begin to approach the truth.

If you said your consumption rate (whether though leakage, combustion or theft by pixies) was negligible or undetectable, it would bear examination. As currently stated, it can be safely rejected out of hand.

quote:
In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road.


That fib might fool people who neither live nor drive in Joisey. NJ has moved to a system where they plug into the diagnostic port & if they don't read any codes, you pass. They don't even look at the tailpipe, much less analyze what's coming out of it. I just passed NJ inspection last month with a miss due to a dead coil. I was late, hadn't had time to fix it and was planning to get a red sticker just to stay legal. Imagine my surprise when I passed emissions.
BEST ENGINES?

Ward's 10 best engines annually is based on emotional evaluation and a sometimes a test drive of a vehicle by Industry Magazine writers with approximate annual income of $40,000.

They are NOT engineers - or else they would never pick engines with built in mechanical flaws
They are NOT mechanics - or else they would not pick engines where you cannot access maintenance items
They are NOT consumers - or else they would not pick engines that are just plain too expensive to manufacture, and offer no measurable benefit over existing design already in production.

And their picks are littered with well problematic engines years down the road

Isuzu (General Motors) 6.6 L V8 engine Duramax Turbodiesel
Was the best ever engine - period in 2002

Now tell that to the owners in 2010 that experienced 100% failure of the Injectors and flooded their crankcases with Diesel Fuel (leaks into Motor Oil).

Tell that to those that had to spend $1,000's to fix the engines well before 100,000 miles on them and were fortunate not to seize them.

Tell the thousands of VW owners with their best engine why the engines sludge up, blow ignition cols and catch on fire.

SO only time tells how great something really is, and to me engine that runs reliably 40 years AFTER it has been designed and 26 years after it was manufactured is far better design and engine than one that is in the best car ever made that is in 7 years in a junk yard.

If money is NO object hen you can have the 10 best engines every year, just get new vehicle every month - but then if it is truly best (BMW) why does it depreciate to 33% of its original value in just one year of ownership ?

When the BEST does not hold it's value, how good really is it ?

To 82% of any vehicle owners (under 1 year) the BEST is what they bought, in 3 years only 42% think so and in 5 years it is just 13%.
Now if someone still owns and drives a same car 26 yeas letter they really really think it is the BEST and GREATEST EVER – whether someone else thinks so or otherwise is really irrelevant.
By volume of production and the minor changes in the versions the GM 350 V-8 reigns supreme, closely followed by the VW flat 4.

Now why did BMW had to come up with over 50 new engine designs in just under 12 years ?

Simply, they did not work out in durability and performance as "expected", when you FAIL and FAIL and FAIL again, that in itself is a SUCCESS !!!
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:

quote:
In NJ...we have emission regulations. Any oil burners are taken off the road.


That fib might fool people who neither live nor drive in Joisey. NJ has moved to a system where they plug into the diagnostic port & if they don't read any codes, you pass. They don't even look at the tailpipe, much less analyze what's coming out of it. I just passed NJ inspection last month with a miss due to a dead coil. I was late, hadn't had time to fix it and was planning to get a red sticker just to stay legal. Imagine my surprise when I passed emissions.


It's the same here IIRC. Emission testing in PA is not required in 42 of the counties though. http://www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/info_non.htm
So they the VW is an oil burner? I thought none of your cars used oil?

All engines use some oil, the amount varies but they do use oil. A certain amount, a very tiny amount, gets past the top ring, and is burnt off. How much oil an engine uses is anyones guess, but extend the OCI long enough and every engine will use some oil.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
So they the VW is an oil burner? I thought none of your cars used oil?

All engines use some oil, the amount varies but they do use oil. A certain amount, a very tiny amount, gets past the top ring, and is burnt off. How much oil an engine uses is anyones guess, but extend the OCI long enough and every engine will use some oil.

AD


I am presently checking to see IF...the VW uses some oil. So far...NONE. I am keeping very accurate log books. I just changed the filter and log it several months ago. I thought at the filter change I may have have added slightly more oil than the filter capacity to bring level up. The oil hasn't budged yet in 2500 miles,so we will see in the months to come.

I am keeping even better tabs of everything I do more precise,including cutting open the oil filters...every time now!! Every car has it's own log book. The Jeep and the stang had better/perfect record keeping,and have used no oil at all in 14-17k.so far.

The VW record keeping was not quite picture perfect as will be for the sake of this board,if nothing else. I did mention in an earlier post that the VW 'might' use 1/2 liter of oil in 10k+.....that would be a quart in 20K. I believe by definition,that is a 'dry" engine.

So far,according to my log book.....2500 miles since filter change,and the oil level is the same. VW Car has been driven on several(30 miles each way)highway runs in 100 degree heat,and level is EXACTLY THE SAME.Jeep was driven weekends 50 miles each way in this heat all summer,and no oil use(normal weekday driving). The Mustang is driven on the highway/city every day,and uses no oil.......NONE!!


Just for the record............VW'S (1.8T,2.0T.ETC)ARE KNOWN TO BURN OIL.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/vw_oil.html


THE PERFECT TEST CAR/ENGINE FOR SYNLUBE=1.8T VW-----DOESN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS TO PROVE SYNLUBE!!!!

http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000050.html

http://forums.vwvortex.com/sho...-Jetta-s-Burning-Oil

http://www.audiforums.com/foru...owthread.php?t=58531


http://www.myvwlemon.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000257.html

ACCORDING TO ALL SOURCES---THE 1.8T ENGINE IS A LEMON AND SHOULD NEVER SEE EXTENDED OCI'S.

NOT MY 1.8T!!!!! I AM DEFYING ALL THE STATISTICS USING SYNLUBE AND NOT CHANGING THE OIL!!!! NO ENGINE ISSUES WITH THIS 1.8T--AGAINST ALL ODDS!!
Last edited by captainkirk
Miro old boy, you can huff and puff all the "claims" you want.

Doesn't change the fact that BMW, or any other auto maker, makes cars that are light years ahead of anything called Yugo.

Yugos rank just a bit better than the 1947 Playboy. It makes a better boat anchor.

Only your sock puppets buy into your nonsense Geppetto.
Last edited by trajan
Kirks quote according to my father is pretty much a blanket excuse. Most if not all auto makers claim a qt of oil/1000 miles is normal oil use. No one is happy hearing it if they use that much oil but that's what they will hear.

ALL ENGINES USE OIL, just extend the OCI out far enough and you will know how much oil your engine uses. There is no such thing as a car that doesn't use oil. A more accurate statement about oil use would be I use no oil between changes. So in the case of a 6 month or 6000 mile OCI. If a person used no oil, an accurate statement would be he used no oil during his OCI.

AD
quote:
Kirks quote according to my father is pretty much a blanket excuse. Most if not all auto makers claim a qt of oil/1000 miles is normal oil use. No one is happy hearing it if they use that much oil but that's what they will hear.


What is my quote...according to common sense!

My quote is a statement of fact!

If the so-called 'defective engines'(not my opinion),receive non-defective oil......the 'defective' engine issues---------GO AWAY!!!

I AM LIVING PROOF WITH MY NON-DEFECTIVE 1.8T-----RUNNING ON SYNLUBE!!

What does your 'father' have to say about that,AD.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
The coil was intermittent and the associated plug wire had a boot issue that compounded the miss. I noticed it as a very intermittent miss under moderate load change a year or more ago. It had gotten to be an actual PIA about a month or two ago. The check engine light hadn't yet come on when I went through inspection, so I passed.



If the misfire was not detected by the OBD II and the check engine light is not ON permanently and FLASHING when it is happening, complain to EPA and that is FREE FIX for you (irrespective of the mileage - as that is SYSTEM OBD II failure and the OEM is now subject to $25,000 fine for EVERY VERHICLE THEY SOLD IN USA that as the same "characteristics".

Document what you claim, send it to EPA registered mail and you will be rolling in money soon - alternately contact the MFG and ask to talk to "certification Engineer for EPA maters".

And tell then you will complain if they do not fix your car NOW and FREE of any charge.

While there is a limit on EMISSION PERFOMENCE DUARBLITY (for the useful life of the car) there is no limit on OBD II functionality and it is a very very serious matter - at a minimum a $90 million fine if they sold any more vehicles than the one you have, whatever that is (tried to look back on this another endless thread and could not find any reference to MAKE MODEL or MY.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Kirks quote according to my father is pretty much a blanket excuse. Most if not all auto makers claim a qt of oil/1000 miles is normal oil use. No one is happy hearing it if they use that much oil but that's what they will hear.


What is my quote...according to common sense!

My quote is a statement of fact!

If the so-called 'defective engines'(not my opinion),receive non-defective oil......the 'defective' engine issues---------GO AWAY!!!

I AM LIVING PROOF WITH MY NON-DEFECTIVE 1.8T!!

What does your 'father' have to say about that,AD.


READ what I said OK. Lets try another example, a little easier: If a person were to go to a dealer complaining about using a qt of oil in lets say 1500 miles, the dealer would call it normal oil use if there were no leaks. YOU GOT IT NOW? Synlube or not. They've been using 1000 miles/qt for decades now. A blanket excuse.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Kirks quote according to my father is pretty much a blanket excuse. Most if not all auto makers claim a qt of oil/1000 miles is normal oil use. No one is happy hearing it if they use that much oil but that's what they will hear.


What is my quote...according to common sense!

My quote is a statement of fact!

If the so-called 'defective engines'(not my opinion),receive non-defective oil......the 'defective' engine issues---------GO AWAY!!!

I AM LIVING PROOF WITH MY NON-DEFECTIVE 1.8T...RUNNING ON SYNLUBE!!

What does your 'father' have to say about that,AD.


READ what I said OK. Lets try another example, a little easier: If a person were to go to a dealer complaining about using a qt of oil in lets say 1500 miles, the dealer would call it normal oil use if there were no leaks. YOU GOT IT NOW? Synlube or not. They've been using 1000 miles/qt for decades now. A blanket excuse.

AD



Funny thing,AD,.....I am not one of those-----PERSONS!!! GET IT!! MY ENGINES ARE NOT-------WORN OUT!!

I am not standing in the... 'worn-out-engine-line' at the dealer!!

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY EXACTLY,AD??
Last edited by captainkirk
Lamont
quote:
As for the cataclysmic perverter, that's not relevant, since NJ only sticks the pipe for older cars that lack the plug-in diagnostic feature, like my '90 Miata.




Lamont,are you sure you live in NJ,like me!

Any converter issues now days in NJ.are far more relevant than the stick test days.

I managed to pass inspection on my cars with the converter off(test-pipe/no mirrors used) with a stick test years ago! Today,the check engine light comes on if the converter is bad/worn/missing.etc.........and you fail inspection---no stick test needed. CATALYTIC CONVERTERS ARE ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT IN NJ. YOU MAKE NO SENSE,LAMONT!

http://www.dmv.org/nj-new-jersey/smog-check.php

Lamont quoted:
The coil was intermittent and the associated plug wire had a boot issue that compounded the miss. I noticed it as a very intermittent miss under moderate load change a year or more ago. It had gotten to be an actual PIA about a month or two ago. The check engine light hadn't yet come on when I went through inspection, so I passed.
.................

That was some miss.........a bad coil----and a bad wire!!! AND NO CEL???

Now I see what you meant by calling your car a grocery getter....and barely that! I would never drive any car with a miss for a year. My buick miss was fixed in two days,and that was too long. Luckily, it was minor/intermittent! BTW........Cars don't run degraded to the point of being a PIA----without the CEL LIT...COME ON,LAMONT---YOU KNOW THAT!

I now also see why you have no sludge in the engine as you claimed---------FUEL DILUTION!!!

Lamont quoted:
The cat red herring makes me wonder if you're a real Joisey Bastid or just another wannabe like the cast from Jersey Shore and our new Governor. Or were you not the guy who claimed to be from Joisey? I haven't really been paying close enough attention to the social aspects of this thread.

---------LAMONT.....SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!


Lamont,what is your background again????

I am starting to wonder with those stories of yours! They are technically----near impossible!! Car that runs terrible,and no check engine light???--- Any real tech will tell you that the PCM is almost too sensitive at throwing codes and lighting the CEL.......LONG BEFORE ANY DETECTABLE MISS---------LET ALONE,FOR A WHOLE YEAR!! BAD COIL/WIRE/AND MISS-NO CODE/CEL!! GET REAL! NO WAY!!!



THIS QUOTE FROM MIRO....NAILS IT PRETTY ACCURATELY!!!

((If the misfire was not detected by the OBD II and the check engine light is not ON permanently and FLASHING when it is happening, complain to EPA and that is FREE FIX for you (irrespective of the mileage - as that is SYSTEM OBD II failure and the OEM is now subject to $25,000 fine for EVERY VERHICLE THEY SOLD IN USA that as the same "characteristics".)))


Lamont.....just to be clear now-----------YOU'RE CLAIMING THAT THE OBD-II,FAILED....FOR A YEAR???? WAS IT YOUR AVALON(TOYOTA)??


This is the reason the old fashioned stick test is not needed........the OBD II SYSTEM NOW DOES THE JOB OF THE OLD STICK TEST!

http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

AS YOU CAN SEE,LAMONT.........THE CAT IS VERY RELAVENT----------INCLUDING JOISEY CATS!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:WORN OUT!!

I am not standing in the... 'worn-out-engine-line' at the dealer!!

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY EXACTLY,AD??


I'll try again Kirk since it seems you aren't grasping what I'm trying to say. A person buys a new car, any brand. He drives 1500 miles and uses a qt of oil. He brings it to the dealer and they check for leaks, NO LEAKS. They tell the person it is normal to use up to a qt of oil per 1000 miles. Simple enough.

It has nothing to do with Synlube or how great you and your cars are. It is a blanket excuse dealers use for oil consumption issues. I can't explain it any other way. Maybe someone else can!


BTW I'm not one of those people with worn out engines, and I don't use Synlube! Smile
AD

PS I'd take Lamont's experiences and word over yours any day of the week! You aren't gaining points here or building any respect. You are entertaining though!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:WORN OUT!!

I am not standing in the... 'worn-out-engine-line' at the dealer!!

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY EXACTLY,AD??


I'll try again Kirk since it seems you aren't grasping what I'm trying to say. A person buys a new car, any brand. He drives 1500 miles and uses a qt of oil. He brings it to the dealer and they check for leaks, NO LEAKS. They tell the person it is normal to use up to a qt of oil per 1000 miles. Simple enough.

It has nothing to do with Synlube or how great you and your cars are. It is a blanket excuse dealers use for oil consumption issues. I can't explain it any other way. Maybe someone else can!


BTW I'm not one of those people with worn out engines, and I don't use Synlube! Smile
AD

PS I'd take Lamont's experiences and word over yours any day of the week! You aren't gaining points here or building any respect. You are entertaining though!


Your point,Ad, really has no real relevance on this thread since most oil burners have some wear/sludge issues that have developed long after the break-in period. Most engines,once the rings seat, don't burn any significant oil until significant damage/wear/sludge has occurred many,many miles later-----using low grade, overworked/oxidized lubricant!!!

The so-called blanket statement you're referencing alludes to factory 'lemons' assuming the car never stops burning a quart/1000 miles of driving-----that is another issue altogether,and yes- it could apply to a much older high mileage engine---we know that,old news!!

The whole point of any oil thread,not-withstanding a defective engine.....is to preserve the 'like new' qualities of a sound engine for as long as possible. That is always the point in any oil forum,and my point as well----- So,AD,again...........WHAT WAS YOUR POINT?? That there are defective engines out there?--Really! WHO KNEW!!! Yes,deales/mfg's have a CYA clause that allows for a poor engine spec/flaw/whatever- to be "acceptable" when and where needed,so as to avoid billions in monetary losses over replacement engines. Gee,who woulda thunk they'd do that!
-----------------

AD QUOTED:
PS I'd take Lamont's experiences and word over yours any day of the week! You aren't gaining points here or building any respect. You are entertaining though![/QUOTE]

Really,AD?---ENLIGHTEN ME!---- SO FAR,LAMONT HAS NOT! What has he taught you to date...you didn't already know?? Let's see,so far Lamont has said that catalytic converters are irrelevant(In NJ)!!! I never knew that(still don't)--did you??
quote:
Document what you claim, send it to EPA registered mail and you will be rolling in money soon - alternately contact the MFG and ask to talk to "certification Engineer for EPA maters".


Or, keep driving until the barely noticeable, extremely sporadic miss becomes enough of a concern to actually light the light. (For months, I wasn't sure if it was really happening or it was the somewhat harsh shifting of the tranny in my F-150.) Then fix it and go on with my life.

I guess you can only do that if your vehicle is a tool rather than the central aspect of your existence.

I'm turning off my notifications on this thread. Kirk has never been close to clear, but he's become about as coherent as a bunch of paint-ball splatters, and makes about as much sense. Heck, he might even be agreeing with me, for all I can tell.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I've never seen an intelligible and factual rebuttal from you,Lamont---so instead you make a feeble 'attempt' to smear me....how typical when one is losing in a debate!! Still waiting for the converter rebuttal. That was a real foot-in-mouth gaffe!


Something you and your two buddies excell at.
Not a single rebuttal that is either intelligible, or factual. Many smear attempts that are worse than feeble.

Losing a debate indeed.
You run Synlube in everything you own, don't you? Then here you told Lamont this:

In sum.........if you want your..."grocery getter" towed to the junk yard......... then run mineral oil in the engine! NOT ME! NO THANK YOU!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Captain Kirk, Fri July 09 2010 05:23 PM

----------------------------------------

You really think dino is going to send his grocery getter to the junk heap? Read through your 650+ posts. You claim dino oil is no good, causes engines to fail and sludge up. There are quite a few people here who beg to differ.


AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
You run Synlube in everything you own, don't you? Then here you told Lamont this:

In sum.........if you want your..."grocery getter" towed to the junk yard......... then run mineral oil in the engine! NOT ME! NO THANK YOU!



----------------------------------------


AD



Come on AD,that's Lamont's catch-phrase(grocer-getter)..so I used his catch phrase,big deal!!

You are correct----I run synlube in everything I own.......and none of them are beaters. If I had purchased a used beater just for fun to drive on the beach or something.....that would be a different story!

However,I really don't care about anyone as you say---"begging to differ" ---I go by the facts,science,and history and I have found that the 'crowd' is usually wrong much of the time. All those sludged up engines prove my point--------they(the crowd) were mostly running dino oil.

I hate to say this AD---but,what was your point--again!! I know I made mine..... loud and clear! I gave tons of links providing tons of proof.

If you don't agree.......then you are denying the facts,science,and history!

You may state that you won't change your ways,however-----I on the other hand,unlike you---look forward to new and better things. Synlube was just one of them!! No big deal---at least not for me! For you,that's another story!
One of his own links, that he posted more than once, states that one way to combat sludge is to use oil of the correct viscosity.

IIRC, a reasonable oci helps as well.

This "synlube" he boasts of using is not the correect viscosity of any vehicle in his sig. And "never chasnge the oil" does nothing to help.

Now, since he likes to present sites such as that as fact to support his claims, only one conclusion can be reached.

The cars in his sig are sludged.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

Come on AD,that's Lamont's catch-phrase(grocer-getter)..so I used his catch phrase,big deal!!

You are correct----I run synlube in everything I own.......and none of them are beaters. If I had purchased a used beater just for fun to drive on the beach or something.....that would be a different story!

However,I really don't care about anyone as you say---"begging to differ" ---I go by the facts,science,and history and I have found that the 'crowd' is usually wrong much of the time. All those sludged up engines prove my point--------they(the crowd) were mostly running dino oil.

I hate to say this AD---but,what was your point--again!! I know I made mine..... loud and clear! I gave tons of links providing tons of proof.

If you don't agree.......then you are denying the facts,science,and history!

You may state that you won't change your ways,however-----I on the other hand,unlike you---look forward to new and better things. Synlube was just one of them!! No big deal---at least not for me! For you,that's another story!


I go by facts and science. In my GF's Jeep I'm running Edge 0W20 and a Mobil 1 filter. A good Synthetic, using newer technology, Liquid titanium. Edge 0w20 is the only oil in the Edge line up using it IIRC. I'd have no problems running RL, PU, PP in it either. In my older Ford I run Penn YB dino.

Dino doesn't sludge engines, poor maint and poor design sludge engines. What oil do I prefer? Synthetic oil, because IMO it has advantages over dino, that is in an application worth using it in. That is how I've been taught, and how I've always felt.

There are probably millions if not over a billion cars in the world running problem free using dino oil. You make it sound that anyone using dino oil is driving an oil burning sludge monster, and that isn't so.

Trajan brings out a good point, from one of your links. Proper viscosity is very important to an engines well being. Very few newer cars call for a 50 grade oil.

AD
One of the problems, as more than one poster, Robert C in paticular, has pointed out, is that kirk has only ever posted anecdotes, not data.

Never has data been posted that shows that mineral oil is a cause of sludge. mineral oil is still made and sold by "big oil". New cars, such as the Mustang with the 5.0 Coyote engine, are factory filled with it.

We've seen links he has posted that showed, not "defective oil" as he claimed, but the results of running way over mfg recommended OCIs, or defective engines, or even using the wrong oil, or a combination of all three.

All this nonsense is because of the agenda that his own sig states, Pushing synlube.

Like AD says, synth is a better oil. I've said it as well. But in most cases, it's overkill.
Darn it, Trajan, you stole my thunder.

I was gonna remind kirk that anecdotes STILL don't constitute data!

Never have, never will.

No amount of shilling will make it so.

Look, I can screw up a little and it can cost millions.

Hell, I've screwed up and spent a half mill in a weekend.

But I LEARN from that. I don't hitch myself to an idea to the exclusion of all others.

Sure, sometimes it may be possible to do better. Sometimes I am really pushing the envelope trying to do better.

Hell, I'm working on an issue now that could save or cost billions if I am right or screw it up instead. Yeah, with a B.

But it takes DATA to make the decisions.
It takes testing. No matter how much I like the way the sales engineers talk or how much sense their spiel makes.

Data. Nothing else will do.

A complete discarding of pre-conceived notions and careful thought to eliminate confirmation bias are required to evaluate that data correctly.

Now, excuse me, it's been a long week and it's time to go drain and fill my Ultra Limited with proper synthetic oil and gear lubes of the correct viscosity and service class before this weekends road trip.

(It's nice when the kids are old enough to tend to themselves...)
RC-
quote:
I was gonna remind kirk that anecdotes STILL don't constitute data!



Have you read any of the links I pasted that were based on F-A-C-T ??????



Let's start from the top------------A-G-A-I-N!!!!!!! You guy's are slow learners,so we can now call this SUMMER SCHOOL!!!

FACTUAL LINK: AGAIN!!

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://webcache.googleusercont...=us&client=firefox-a

http://www.machinerylubricatio...udge-varnish-turbine


SYNTHETIC VS CONVENTIONAL......

http://www.autotropolis.com/wi...tic_vs._Mineral_Oils

http://www.carcraft.com/techar...ional_oil/index.html



THAT'S JUST FOR STARTERS,ROBERT C !!!! The only anecdotes I see are coming from you,Rob!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm



The very link I refered to.

■On any vehicle, if you can't afford synthetic oil, check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil.
synlube isn't it.



This is also from the link,and it is the crux of the matter you seem to be avoiding!!

in the struggle to pass tougher federal emissions specifications, car manufacturers have raised engine operating temperatures and increased exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 1996, tighter federal emissions standards were enacted. Fuel mixtures have to run leaner, and leaner mixtures cause higher combustion temperatures. When nitrogen in the air is raised to higher temperatures it is converted into new contaminant cocktails. By 1997, sludge is appearing as a major problem.

After 1996, tighter emissions standards added pressure to the oiling system, and problems appeared.


The above statements from the link nails it. Yes,some people neglect changing their cheap mineral oil further compound a pre-existing condition and sludge up their engines that much faster-----but the majority of sludge is from using low tech oil in high tech engines,and that is a fact! That'S why sludge issues suddenly went up exponentially,yet the number of motorists/cars remained basically static.


This is also from the link and nails it again--just some more facts!!


Federal pressures for more fuel economy in cars and trucks led car manufacturers to design engines for lower viscosity motor oils. Lighter oils tend to break down faster under urban driving conditions.


I recommend synthetic motor oil to all my customers to prevent sludge. Why?

Synthetic lubricants cost just slightly more than conventional oils, but offer the best engine protection because: * synthetics remain stable at high temperatures (conventional oils break down faster at today's higher engine temps) * synthetics remain fluid at very low temperatures (conventional oils thicken) * additive packages are formulated with special chemicals for top cleaning and anti-oxidant protection
-----------------------------------------------------------

However,I use synlube,don't change it,and I don't have any sludge---including my cut open oil filters that are flawless and clean!
Aeration induced sludge information.

http://www.machinerylubricatio...oil-analysis-varnish

Take note to the references in the above link!

The so-called 'dirt' in motor oil(mineral/dino/G-III) did not come from the outside of your engine!! The source of dirt/insolubles is---the OIL ITSELF!! This is not new information! These particles are sludge/carbon are in fact-----ABRASIVE(cause wear),among other things!

quote:

The result envisioned is the creation of a submicron, carbonaceous resin particle at each location previously occupied by an air bubble. The degradation is a thermal-oxidative decomposition of the oil. These tar-like particles accumulate in the oil

because they are insoluble suspensions, they have a tendency to seek a more stable domicile. As they move about in the oil they make random contact with cool machine surfaces. The cooler oil at surface boundaries draws the particles near, to condense and adhere. One theory suggests that the particles migrate out of the oil by Van der Waals forces (weak attractive chemi-absorptive energy) while another considers electromechanical forces such as dielectrophoresis. Whatever the attraction, these polar microscopic specks of carbon matter will eventually adhere and populate the exposed metal walls. Initially the carbon residue may be gum-like and sticky but over time they can become thermally cured and form hard, enamel-like films.

-----------------------------------------------------


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Anecdotes still do not constitute data.



So, give us some data then,Trajan, instead of your usual ANECDOTES!

Now that you understand the definition of data as displayed by your above post-----I assume data is just around the corner from you??

Nah,who am I kidding! Your not capable of providing data--like I have been,and will continue doing! You just don't have it---never did---never will!! Go back to the sidelines........'old boy'..where you belong!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I've never seen an intelligible and factual rebuttal from you,Lamont---so instead you make a feeble 'attempt' to smear me....how typical when one is losing in a debate!! Still waiting for the converter rebuttal. That was a real foot-in-mouth gaffe!


Something you and your two buddies excell at.
Not a single rebuttal that is either intelligible, or factual. Many smear attempts that are worse than feeble.

Losing a debate indeed.


Data, not feeble smears are wanted.
Last edited by trajan
The info, references, in the above posts make sense, Kirk. It's obvious that Synlube is doing a good job keeping your engine(s) clean. You are using products in your various machines that represent a lot of money. I'm certain that if you suspected that you were doing any harm to your various machines, you would stop using Synlube in a heartbeat. Your record keeping is very systematic and accurate. I'm not buying into the "viscosity issue." How many random samples were tested? How many different labs did the testing over how many samples? I may be wrong, but one or two samples tested by one or two labs may not be very very meaningful. I put more weight on your on-going, long-term "successful" usage. Tearing down those various pieces of machinery would be meaningful, too, but whose got the time and money for such extensive tests?
inHaliburton-
quote:
Tearing down those various pieces of machinery would be meaningful, too, but whose got the time and money for such extensive tests?


I agree inhaliburton, an engine tear down/'mike' up will reveal everything!

However,most engines-good or bad, don't get torn down unless there is a desire to fix vs trade in the car.

In my case,both now, and in the past with the older cars,the engines all ran like a tops. A tear down just for fun would be crazy,unless one is in the racing circuit!

There would also be tell-tale signs if an engine is getting worn,such as-burning oil,power loss,fuel economy drop,noise,smoke,etc. If none of those issues ever arise,life is good,and so is the oil!

I should also mention that cutting open the oil filters for inspection is very telling as well.

Using those filter mags isn't a bad idea either,especially during oil filter inspections-whether using Synlube oil,or another lubricant.

Well guy's... have a great weekend!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD


Must be something new for synlube, anti foam agents. Meeting it's advertised viscosity in a pair of VOAs would be new too. And a valid business address.

Synlube shills are a perfect example of LOPSOD. (Long on promise, short on delivery.)
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).


"Accepted rate" my arse.

Acceptable to GM when some poor sap who paid tens-of-thousands of dollar for a Good Money car tell his woes to a Service Salesperson who tells the poor sap, "That's normal oil consumption. Enjoy paying for a quart/liter of oil every 2000 miles, or sooner, for the rest of this car's life. Next!"

Behind the poor sap is a Good Money company executive to tells the same Good Money Service Salesperson the same story and gets, "Sure, we'll fix it under warranty."
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi).


"Accepted rate" my arse.

Acceptable to GM when some poor sap who paid tens-of-thousands of dollar for a Good Money car tell his woes to a Service Salesperson who tells the poor sap, "That's normal oil consumption. Enjoy paying for a quart/liter of oil every 2000 miles, or sooner, for the rest of this car's life. Next!"

Behind the poor sap is a Good Money company executive to tells the same Good Money Service Salesperson the same story and gets, "Sure, we'll fix it under warranty."



Hello,inHaliburton. I totally agree with you. I was once one of those 'saps' at the dealer many years ago. Those mechanics/reps talk down to the customers all the time thinking the customers are clueless.

This could be a factor in the downfall of many of the dealerships today!
Last edited by annieoakley
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


In case your wondering---Synlube does have anti-foam agents,unlike some other motor oils that do not,and yet needs it in the worst way!


Name some oils that don't contain anti-foam agents. Facts please, not your speculation.

I think the major oil companies know how to blend oil. They don't go the Wal-Mart buy a qt of oil, rebottle it, tweak it, and call it their own, like some companies w/o addresses and business licenses do. Then plant shills on message boards trying to push product.

AD



I wouldn't be so sure about that AD.

Let's focus on engine oil foam issues for a while...

Some proof of oil foam in the link below....just for starters!!! In this case it looks like Redline is better at foaming than the other oils in this one example,just to make the case that foaming is an issue with many brands of lube.

http://www.kawasakimotorcycle....bout-engine-oil.html

If the oil is already prone to sludging---the foaming only agravates that issue further causing increased oxidation...besides all the other foam related issues!!!
I'm new on this forum so, Hello everybody.

On the subject of "MFG approved" oil.

On of my brother is in charge of the "replacement parts department" in a quite big OPEL dealer (I live in europe).
A few years back (5 or 6 he remember) they began to have customers having trouble with some of their engines loosing power after a few thousand Km. Everything was running fine except that the power was gradualy disappearing more and more every day.

Guess what it was ? The camshaft was almost totally worn out due to friction with the tappets!!!!
Yes, an almost round camsaft!!

He reported the failures to OPEL as did the other OPEL dealers he knows of, who had the same problem (my guess is that it must have been in other country too).

OPEL investigated the problem and solved it by sending to the dealers.....a different oil!!!! The original "MFG approved" oil that my brother bought for the servicing in their garage was apparently not so appropriate.

My point is that manufacturers don't necessarily knows what's best for their cars. They don't test everything, in every way possible because it would cost them too much.
Of course, this is an extreme example but I think it illustrates well the point.

When discussing "MFG approved" oil and "OEM original parts", lets not forget that the main goal of nearly every industry is to MAKE MONEY RIGHT KNOW !
Of course, long-term reputation is still (hopefully) a small part of the equation but, thanks to the very pressing stock exchange market we live in, this is becoming less of a concern for them. And if you think that "big oil" isn't contaminated, well, welcome in wonderland.

We are responsible too for this state of affair (not all of us hopefully): people don't want to keep their car, TV, computer,phone, camera, etc...forever. They want the newest.
So, the industry responded kindly with products that last just long enough for their "expected live-span".

I'm not saying that there isn't any "good" products out there, but they are vanishing more and more every day.

Caillou
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The oil came out of an unmarked steel drum fitted with a hand pump. This was around 1964. It was either SAE 40 or SAE 30. No W !

Nope, not yet. Truck still under warranty. Would have to change oil every 5000 km.



That is some vinatge oil.

According to Kirk/Miro there are no worries using Synlube in a new car under warranty. The dealer would have to prove the oil caused a problem. Honestly I wouldn't touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole so don't go by me. But according to them you'll have no problems.

I wonder if they'll back you up if you did use it and have a problem? Smart move on your part sir waiting it out!


AD
inHaliburton
Level 4 - 251 to 500 posts
Posted Jun 20, 6:22 PM Hide Post
Beats me how those who have no experience with a product can argue with those who have.

kirk/miro say synlube is the best oil there is. By not using a product he has defended over and over he is doing the opposite of the above statement. Hypocrit much?

But then again, those two have yet to provide any data. Verifiable, trustworty data.

And yet.............
What I find odd about some people and new cars under warranty is this. Because of fear and doubt, they stick with mfg approved oil, follow the book, then when the warranty is up they switch to "The Best Oil". Many times it is a non-approved oil not meeting mfg specs and certifications. I laugh because if I had a new car I'd want the so called "The Best Oil" in that engine first chance I got. Only in my case the best oil IMO meets the mfg specs, so no worries here.

The whole argument makes no sense, if someone is so confident in a product GO FOR IT in the beginning. Besides the oil mfg has your back, maybe that is. Or is that possible fear of having an oil related problem and possible a fight what holds them back because it is not approved oil? I think so, for those people maybe "The Best Oil" isn't really the best after all? LOL

No names mentioned here just general observations. I was talking to some Shipmates about this and a few that are car guys mentioned this, and I see the same logic on message boards. Confusing to me!

AD
bmwtechguy said it best I think.

"API license and starburst means the oil meets the minimum requirements for the spec, such as chemical limits to protect emissions systems, lower viscosity for energy conserving, Noack volitility limits, cold cranking, HTHS, wear protection, shear stability etc. Also, oil companies pay dearly to have their oils licensed, tested, etc. and pay some type of royalty per gallon or quart over a certain amount sold. Non-licensed oils may be better than the spec in some or every way or worse. You have to decide if you trust the company blending/selling the non-licensed oil."

Can also be said of mfg approved oil.

I sure as hell don't trust synlube. They've gone out of their way to make sure I don't.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:


The whole argument makes no sense, if someone is so confident in a product GO FOR IT in the beginning. Besides the oil mfg has your back, maybe that is. Or is that possible fear of having an oil related problem and possible a fight what holds them back because it is not approved oil? I think so, for those people maybe "The Best Oil" isn't really the best after all? LOL

AD


That's a good point. If you have an oil related problem using a non spec oil under warranty, you're going to pay for it.

If you have the same problem after the warranty, you're still going to pay for it.

So why would it matter since you pay for it either way?