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Redline Oil--would like your thoughts/experiences

T tallpaulMember
Anybody use Redline or have researched Redline? Just curious what folks think of this oil.

Particularly I am interested in what the ester content is in 1) their motor oil, and 2) their racing oil. From reading their website it appears there would be more ester in the racing oil. Some have guesstimated about 50 percent ester in the motor oil. The tech at Redline has stated that the majority of their motor oil base oil is ester. It has also been stated by others that there is a PAO component also.

Another thing: Many have done used oil analysis on Redline motor oil and found high wear numbers, but this is generally being attributed to the ester scavenging built up deposits from the engine.

Redline does have pretty high levels of zinc, phosphorus, and moly, probably higher than that of a diesel rated motor oil.

Some folks have gotten excellent used oil analysis results mixing one quart of Redline with several quarts of Mobil One, as compared to running straight Mobil One.
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C callisaMember
What's the big fuzz about ester? Better cold start capabilities, more stable against heat etc...
Nobody talks about seal combatibility which is way more important for an "every day" car application. Or is everybody doing racing here and at BITOG at the weekends? Who really needs esters? Not many engines do. Can esters hurt seals and elastomeres? Yes, they can. If you are doing racing and disassemble your engine every second weekend, this is not an issue. Where are the advantages for an every day car? I can't see them.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
What's the big fuzz about ester? Better cold start capabilities, more stable against heat etc...
Nobody talks about seal combatibility which is way more important for an "every day" car application. Or is everybody doing racing here and at BITOG at the weekends? Who really needs esters? Not many engines do. Can esters hurt seals and elastomeres? Yes, they can. If you are doing racing and disassemble your engine every second weekend, this is not an issue. Where are the advantages for an every day car? I can't see them.
Tell that to Castrol Big Grin, maker of Magnetec and (in USA) Start Up, both ester-fortified oils.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
quote:
Tell that to Castrol Big Grin, maker of Magnetec and (in USA) Start Up, both ester-fortified oils.

As I mentioned in an earlier post: Good marketing, nothing but good marketing... Big Grin
Yes, good marketing. But how can you be sure it is "nothing but" good marketing?

You seemed to have good things to say about esters in this thread: Link. Additionally, you admitted not having much experience with esters. Perhaps you have done more research?
M mgbv8Member
Callisa,

you are keeping your secret well hiddern!

esters are high performance oils, however there may be advantages re drain back espcially for cars not used on a regular basis and stored during winter.

M1 is esterless and can be used for break in, wheras a ester based oil is not recommended and a mineral oil should be used
C callisaMember
quote:
M1 is esterless and can be used for break in, wheras a ester based oil is not recommended and a mineral oil should be used


I have not experienced a different break-in behaviour of engines, no matter what base oil type oil was used. In fact I believe that the differences in this respect are so small, that any effects seen may be influenced by something else.

And yes, esters are something amazing with many advantages.
1) Natural dispersants - seems to work for any kind of ester. In fact a pure ester oil should work better than any AUTO RX in an Audi TT engine.
2) Behind Esters are many different types of oils, and not all have the described positive effects like
3) Better start-up wear performance at cold start. This seems definetelly not to be true for all esters.
4) If the ester used is not "stearically hindered", it may break up under certain (I admit rare) circumstances which may lead to a complete destruction of your oilfilter media.
5) Pure PAO oils may "dry out" elastomeres. Some Mineral oil guys add a certain amount of ester as seal swelling agent to hide such effects.
6) I learned that many LongLife oils in Europe have a certain amount of ester to improve them and help to pass engine tests.

Enough positive words about esters? Wink
C callisaMember
quote:
What engines use an ester based oil for break in?

I was talking in general that I have never seen differences in base oils concerning break in behaviour in european engines.

quote:
Not sure what auto rx does for engine using a synth!

Nothing. But instead of using auto rx, you may as well clean-up your engine with an ester based oil. What is interesting for me to see is that products like auto rx are available, but not really that popular and used as they are in the States.

quote:
Which esters are not good for start up?
I wrote not every ester has that famous ability to improve cold start performance. That does not mean these esters are bad for start-up.

quote:
Castrol synths use esters
Not every Castrol synthetic oil has esters.
T tallpaulMember
I always thought you wanted a basic mineral oil without additives for the first 5 to 10 hours break in as the anti-wear additives hinder the break in process. I would think a very slippery synthetic would similarly hinder break in.

I agree any ester oil will help clean up an engine. Also PAO and Group III to some extent. My understanding is that the synthetics are so pure that they “want” (if I may personify a lubricant) to soak up whatever they come in contact with which results in removal (or scavenging) of built up deposits from the engine. Ester, I believe has additional reasons that it cleans, like attraction (I won’t say magnetic) to metal that displaces whatever is already on the metal. The question would be, how much ester is needed—a whole crankcase full, one quart in the crankcase, just a few ounces?

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Did you hear about the guy who ran one of those massive oil filter magnets while running Castrol Magnetec oil? All the ester part collected in the oil filter, clogging it and resulting in engine failure! Big Grin
M mgbv8Member
Callisa

What are auto-rx alternatives
Castrol confirmed their synths include esters

TallPaul,

What % of oil is Auto rx - Motul Redline must be 50% but this is really for high performance. M1 if using AN is also polar but less so than esters.

Terry reckoned that auto-rx is better at cleaning because natural ester, however did not follow that line as then a natural mineral would be better than synth!
T tallpaulMember
I figure Redline is at least 50% ester, so up to approx 30% PAO and about 20% additives. Auto Rx is applied 2 ounces per quart and then 2 additional ounces (for the oil filter, Frank says), so about 6 - 7 percent. Hard to believe that a 50% load of ester in a crankcase full of Redline can't do at least as well as Auto Rx. When I ran a quart of Redline in my pickup on the tail end of an OCI, the next oil seemed to get dirty faster in the next OCI. Anyway, I am not convinced that Auto Rx is the miracle product that many make it out to be.

Also, the maintenance dose of Auto Rx is 2 ounces per OCI (not per quart but per 5 quarts!). If that works, then a little Redline, say an ounce per quart, should be good instead. I doubt the ounce per quart of Redline would cause any problem, it is less than teh residual that would be in there if you had run a full load of Redline and then switched to something else.
T tallpaulMember
I once tried a little "test." I have an old oil pan with a nice black coating over parts of the inside. I put a few drops of Auto Rx in one place and a few drops of Redline 10w30 in another. After a couple weeks I rubbed them off. More gunk was rubbed of from the Auto Rx area than the Redline area and after rubbing it off the Auto Rx area remained somewhat tacky whereas the Redline area was dry. Of course that all may be due to the Auto Rx being 100% ester concentration vs the Redline being about 50% or so. Maybe I should dilute the Auto Rx 50% with motor oil and try the test again.
C callisaMember
quote:
Did you hear about the guy who ran one of those massive oil filter magnets while running Castrol Magnetec oil? All the ester part collected in the oil filter, clogging it and resulting in engine failure!

No. And to be honest, I do not believe that this was the reason for the failure of the engine.

quote:
Castrol confirmed their synths include esters

I wrote not every Castrol Synthetic oil has ester inside. And that is defenitelly true in Germany.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Sorry I didn't get that one. There are some other strange posts here, which appear to be of the same kind of humor. Does that mean I should lough more often when I read some posts?.... Razz
My wife does not understand my humor either. Frown

quote:
How do you get esters out of a can?
With a plastic spoon! Also if you get them in plastic bottles, don't use a metal funnel. Need aluminum engine and oil pan or it will clog up everything, I think? Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
C callisaMember
quote:
Not sure what you mean with AN?

Sorry, I still don't know what you mean with AN...
Group V does not define Ester oils exclusively. Group V is defined as "unconventional oils". I do not know every synthetic oil on the market. Look at the Noack, if the Noack of an oil is below 8%, you can be rather sure that no group I oils are inside. But why are you afraid of a some Group I oil? It certainly does not hurt your engine.
T timerMember
So , we can see now that Mobil's AN fluids can even be used for blending mineral oils and have inherent high solvency .

Has anyone here ever switched to the Supersyn from mineral oil and found the oil got dirty rather quickley the first run on it ?

If I used minerals oils I would probably use one oil change interval during summer with Mobil Supersyn to get some minor but effective cleaning around the piston rings .

But back to the blending fluid . I would like to know which companies are using it in their oils . It's now sold in Europe too .
C charMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:

Nobody talks about seal combatibility which is way more important for an "every day" car application. Or is everybody doing racing here and at BITOG at the weekends? Who really needs esters? Not many engines do. Can esters hurt seals and elastomeres? Yes, they can.
Where are the advantages for an every day car? I can't see them.


Did you know that some mineral oils use esters as pour point depressants and that many of the modern additives have components of alcohols that are esters and this includes zincs ? A consumer would be hard pressed to purchase a motor oil without some type of ester additive in todays world . The better oils that actually meet ACEA standards are engineered with compatability of seals . www.acea.de

These esters and derivitive additives actually condition seals and help keep them pliable . Diester can help eliminate bore polishing when the concoction is well formulated with the other detergent and dispersant additives .

I beleive more emphasis on the reduction of bore polishing should be noted on the boards . When you still see the honing marks upon inspection after 200 thousand miles you know the oil was formulated well . Mobil always used some ester and there have been many notes about the lack of cylinder wear when that oil was used for life .
C callisaMember
quote:
Did you know that some mineral oils use esters as pour point depressants and that many of the modern additives have components of alcohols that are esters and this includes zincs ?

At the time I wrote that entry, I was thinking more about pure ester oils. After that post I made some inquiries concerning esters, mentioned here in this forum in another thread. In fact, a 10 % ester content may even help you to pass a severe ACEA B5 engine test concerning piston cleanliness. Interesting enough it seems that a higher amount of ester will decrease the piston cleanliness.
M mgbv8Member
Appox %s Magnatec uses say 20% ester in a mineral oil base. Silkolene uses 20% diester although perhaps a road/track track oil.
Above that % the oils are really only for race purpuses with Motul 300V a 20% diester plus mix of PAO/ester and Redline an ester/PAO.

Magnatec appears to be only road oil that promotes esters for start up protection, the others being for protection at high temperatures. (M1 maybe ester or esterless! just states uses 3 Synthetics )

Are Castrol right or wrong?
B busterMember
I've changed my opinion lately with RL after speaking with a guy from Butler Labs. I believe RL is an outstanding oil in severe driving conditions such as racing and an oil that maintains it's viscosity better then any other oil. It will also keep your engine more clean, due to the high Ester content. Not to mention, the small ppm wear differences we see in analysis reports are not always wear, especially with RL. It's a tough oil to evaluate, but the "experts" at BITOG say nothing but great thingsa bout Redline.
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