Shell Tellus S oils longevity

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I work for a LARGE car manufacturer in the UK, at its Research Centre east of London.
We have approx 23,000 litres of oil in a ring main reservoir.(Shell tellus S 37)
This is part of a ring main supplying oil at 210 bar 45 Deg C to component test rigs and road simulators manufactured by MTS Systems Corp in Minnesota (approx 15 in number).
In the past we have changed this oil product twice due to oxidisation or filterability problems below 3 micron.
We are now about to change the oil again due to resin’s. goo and lacquering problems and that we cannot filter out the <3 micron particles.

I have heard that since Shell changed from gulf based crude to north sea there have been problems with this product.

Anybody have any hard information on this, I doubt if Shell would own up tot his being an issue.

Incidentally we are thinking of switching to Mobil Excel 46, I like to hear any comments about this product as well.

We also have a Kleentek unit attached to our reservoir, but it seems not capable of removing the <3 micron particles that are blinding our Pall filters at the moment, Fortum has recommended attaching another Kleentek but they are expensive at £10,000 each.

Thanks, Tony

9/8/0412:29 PM

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greglivingstoneMember

Dear Sir,

I would be surprised if the origin of the basestock has as much of an impact on the finished lubricant as the refining process. One of the advantages of advanced hydrotreating technologies is that the process can tolerate less pure crude stocks and still produce very high quality lubricants. Perhaps Shell is switching their basestock from an API Group I to an API Group II? There have been many complaints in the past as oil manufacturers switch to a Group II basestock. This is due to the fact that the user dumps the new basestock on top of the old basestock resulting in the creation of varnish and sludge. (Group II products have less solency.) Although Group II products offer many advantages, the user must be aware before the switch is made so that necessary flushing is done before the introduction of the new oil into the system.

The Mobil Excel product line is excellent. However, much to the chagrin of lubricant sales people, I believe that solving contamination problems and maximizing lubricant life has much less to do with whose product you use and much more to do with how you maintain it.

As far as utilizing Kleentek to remove varnish and lacquers, the technology definitely works. It has to be appropriately sized however, and it sounds like you do need one more unit on your reservoir. Here is an article that was published a couple of months ago from an auto plant here in the US that uses Kleentek in their hydraulic systems:
How Saturn Quadrupled Its Hydraulic Oil Life

Good luck,

Greg

9/9/046:23 AM

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davehowardMember

We are a manufacturer of offline filtration with vast experience of cleaning systems in all industries. The cleaning of Shell oils below 3 micron will not be a problem for us, with our RMF products.
I saw mention of CJC (Denmark) although they do have an outlet in the uk. Well we are Dutch owned, but based in Newark England. We also have distributors through out the UK to give local back up and I personally support these and am available to advise customers at any time. We also give a money back gaurentee if we cannot do what we say we can do. This is a no brainer, we are the best on the market. Let us help. Contact Dave - dave@koppen-lethem.co.uk

10/24/066:42 AM

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bruce381Member

quote:
Originally posted by Greg Livingstone:
Dear Sir,

I would be surprised if the origin of the basestock has as much of an impact on the finished lubricant as the refining process. One of the advantages of advanced hydrotreating technologies is that the process can tolerate less pure crude stocks and still produce very high quality lubricants. Perhaps Shell is switching their basestock from an API Group I to an API Group II? There have been many complaints in the past as oil manufacturers switch to a Group II basestock. This is due to the fact that the user dumps the new basestock on top of the old basestock resulting in the creation of varnish and sludge. (Group II products have less solency.) Although Group II products offer many advantages, the user must be aware before the switch is made so that necessary flushing is done before the introduction of the new oil into the system.

The Mobil Excel product line is excellent. However, much to the chagrin of lubricant sales people, I believe that so**ing contamination problems and maximizing lubricant life has much less to do with whose product you use and much more to do with how you maintain it.

As far as utilizing Kleentek to remove varnish and lacquers, the technology definitely works. It has to be appropriately sized however, and it sounds like you do need one more unit on your reservoir. Here is an article that was published a couple of months ago from an auto plant here in the US that uses Kleentek in their hydraulic systems:
How Saturn Quadrupled Its Hydraulic Oil Life

Good luck,

Greg

Greg is 110% correct perhaps a change if one was made to a higher aniline pt hydro treated base stck has caused more varnish due to less solubility. I would comtinue looking at a correct sized Electrostatic filter/polisher aswell as start a oil analysis program to
baseline and monitor oil condition and perhaps predict future problems before they become a major headache.

bruce

10/24/066:02 PM

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dinslageMember

Dear Sir,

I am the ExxonMobil industrial sales engineer who works with MTS in the Mineapolis, MN area. MTS endorses Mobil DTE 25 and as even a better option, Mobil DTE Excel (ISO 46). These oils are formulated to give you optimal performance for several years and are the only hydraulic oils on the market to offer a 3 year product and liability warranty. Also, MTS has a great oil analysis offering that can manage your oil analysis and offer helpful ideas to help extend your lubricant life. Again, ExxonMobil works closely with MTS to offer the best and highest performing fluids for such a critical and precise operation. Due to the nature of the systems (servos, variable bent axis and standard axial piston pumps, etc...you need a oil that is not going to cause additive drop out, deposit formation and premature equipment failure. You need an oil with keep clean technology, a product with decades of R&D and an oil that has proven itself and is backed by MTS. If you would like, please email me at matthew.l.dinslage@exxonmobil.com, we can also discuss this with the people at MTS.

12/1/0611:26 PM

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davemichaelsMember

From personal experience on MTS and other manuf's test equipment at Southwest Inst and several other places, you really must look at the spark discharge and electrical charging of the oil by your mechanical filtration.

My background is in manufacturing and injection molding where we use many of the same pumps, filters, servos, and oils as in the MTS equipment. After much inquiry and cost of various remedies, we came to the same conclusions as Saturn did: Spark discharge and electrical carging from the filtration was the root cause of excessive additive depletion, oxidation and varnish deposition. Read Livingstone's and Sasaki's papers on spark discharge in various fluids. Read Pall Corp's paper on their ESD filters and spark.

The midsize Kleentek units are usually a match for the varnish problems in systems up to about 2000 US gal, but only if you're not contributing to the problem with overly zealous mechanical filters. Even the 1 micron filters can't remove significant amounts of the <.8 micron varnish, so you're simply adding extra oil degradation with the elements -- and lots of cost. Go back to catastrophic failure protection with your filters and use the electrostatics to handle the varnish and small particulate.

12/7/0611:29 AM

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