So your response to the fact that none of the points match between your UOA and what synlube states as correct values is that $20 UOA's are basicly worthless. If this UOA is worthless then all UOA's are worthless and why bother.
Honestly with that line of thinking 3 month 3000 mile oil changes makes perfect sense and a lifetime lubricant falls into the relm of Slick 50, Duralube and the rest.
If this UOA is considered correct then your oil is far out of spec. You even commented that copper and silicone tested high. But according to synlubes site silicone should be at least 200ppm. If this was a different oil Mobil 1 or Amsoil perhaps, except for high wear numbers it would be considered an acceptable UOA and would be included in any analysis of a given oil for comparison.
To really evaluate synlube we would need a VOA and at least 2 or more UOA's on the same vehicle none of which synlube has yet to release or provide. Wait I forgot UOA's are completely worthless and not worth doing.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
Unless everything is done correctly, TATERSANDNOODLES, they are worthless. If the equipment is properly calibrated, the technician is properly trained, the proper procedures are followed, AND the technician knows something about what he/she's testing, then you can get some reliable results but you WILL NOT get a reliable result for $20. AND you will not be able to apply dino standards to SynLube because SynLube is not a petroleum product.
The bottom line is that I have absolutely no incentive to do UOAs for people.
When someone says to me that "I'll have to see several UOAs before I think SynLube is anything different than snake oil, I have to wonder just what the point of such a comment is. From a profit standpoint, I don't care if anyone buys SynLube, I'm not selling it. If someone dismisses SynLube, that is their decision and they will pay for it through higher maintenance costs and time spent on that maintenance. Some have told me that oil changes are how they keep in touch with their vehicle. OK, I can understand that but a wax job is what works for me.
I did the best test possible, I asked Miro tough questions and I was impressed with his frank answers. Then I risked thousands of dollars in repairs to see if SynLube worked. It does.
Tell me who else is getting the results I am after using their oil 37K miles over 3.75 years with almost no oil consumption and gas mileage substantially above the old EPA system estimate. And compared to dino oil, I'm saving money. I broke even at 23,600 miles and that includes the cost for the extra quart of Service Fill I purchased which is almost unused.
Just as important for me as the freedom from oil changes without compromising the engine is the reduced environmental impact of my vehicle. During the lifespan of my Ranger, it would normally create hundreds of quarts of used dino oil that's considered a toxic substance.
The reality is that SynLube is not a magical product. It is simply one that takes advantage of currently available technology. Any of the oil marketers could pay to develop a formula with approximately equal properties and sell it within a year or so.
So what's the problem? Why don't they? Here are some of the reasons: 1) They would eventually have to admit that they could have sold this stuff all along but lied to us for the sake of profit; 2) Retail outlets don't sell things that don't generate floor traffic; 3) It is more profitable to sell an adequate product frequently than an excellent product once.
In conclusion: I have stated my experiences. All I can do is assure you I have accurately stated my true experience with this product. I can, with a clear conscience, assure people that the product is worth investigating. After, that, you're on your own, just like I was, when I started out.
One final point. I have talked about SynLube for several years now. Though I can count on one hand the number of people who I know have tried SynLube on my recommendation, I have never heard anyone say that I gave them a bum steer.
The bottom line is that I have absolutely no incentive to do UOAs for people.
When someone says to me that "I'll have to see several UOAs before I think SynLube is anything different than snake oil, I have to wonder just what the point of such a comment is. From a profit standpoint, I don't care if anyone buys SynLube, I'm not selling it. If someone dismisses SynLube, that is their decision and they will pay for it through higher maintenance costs and time spent on that maintenance. Some have told me that oil changes are how they keep in touch with their vehicle. OK, I can understand that but a wax job is what works for me.
I did the best test possible, I asked Miro tough questions and I was impressed with his frank answers. Then I risked thousands of dollars in repairs to see if SynLube worked. It does.
Tell me who else is getting the results I am after using their oil 37K miles over 3.75 years with almost no oil consumption and gas mileage substantially above the old EPA system estimate. And compared to dino oil, I'm saving money. I broke even at 23,600 miles and that includes the cost for the extra quart of Service Fill I purchased which is almost unused.
Just as important for me as the freedom from oil changes without compromising the engine is the reduced environmental impact of my vehicle. During the lifespan of my Ranger, it would normally create hundreds of quarts of used dino oil that's considered a toxic substance.
The reality is that SynLube is not a magical product. It is simply one that takes advantage of currently available technology. Any of the oil marketers could pay to develop a formula with approximately equal properties and sell it within a year or so.
So what's the problem? Why don't they? Here are some of the reasons: 1) They would eventually have to admit that they could have sold this stuff all along but lied to us for the sake of profit; 2) Retail outlets don't sell things that don't generate floor traffic; 3) It is more profitable to sell an adequate product frequently than an excellent product once.
In conclusion: I have stated my experiences. All I can do is assure you I have accurately stated my true experience with this product. I can, with a clear conscience, assure people that the product is worth investigating. After, that, you're on your own, just like I was, when I started out.
One final point. I have talked about SynLube for several years now. Though I can count on one hand the number of people who I know have tried SynLube on my recommendation, I have never heard anyone say that I gave them a bum steer.
Wll said, Houckster.
You have to considder that most people in the US have been brainwashed so many years with the magic 3000 mile OCI, that it will be almost impossible to make them understand this, even if they saw it with their own eyes.
I will compare it to taking a trip to Iran, trying to convince them that it is OK to eat pork meat.
You have to considder that most people in the US have been brainwashed so many years with the magic 3000 mile OCI, that it will be almost impossible to make them understand this, even if they saw it with their own eyes.
I will compare it to taking a trip to Iran, trying to convince them that it is OK to eat pork meat.
quote:So what's the problem? Why don't they? Here are some of the reasons: 1) They would eventually have to admit that they could have sold this stuff all along but lied to us for the sake of profit; 2) Retail outlets don't sell things that don't generate floor traffic; 3) It is more profitable to sell an adequate product frequently than an excellent product once.
Well Houckster, I think you are right on the money with the above statement.
Here's just one single example of using less oil over a considerable period of time.
Think of how many countless trillions of barrels of oil that would be still in the ground if for every car that has been sold in the past 20 or more years could have got by with just one or two oil changes over it life. And with that in mind, I wonder what we could be paying today for gasoline at the pump, oil for heating our homes and businesses, merchanise made from petroleum products, ad nauseum...
Let's hear it for the oil businesses around the World--NOT.
I have read a number of the posting on Synlube. I find as some others that I want to know just what the base stock of this lubricant is composed of, who manufactures the base stock, what name does the manufacturer of the base stock sell it under. It surely is called something other than Synlube.
I am thinking that it is a PAO with the addition of teflon and graphite additives which sound detremental. Does anyone know anything about the base stock?
I have read over the years that teflon crystalizes near 450 degrees F, and I question how do these together handle all the air born contaminants if a bypass filter system is not used to analytically clean the oil regularly.
Huskster what type of air filter do you use?
That CM oil filter seems ok but there are others I know of that will do a better job.
I am thinking that it is a PAO with the addition of teflon and graphite additives which sound detremental. Does anyone know anything about the base stock?
I have read over the years that teflon crystalizes near 450 degrees F, and I question how do these together handle all the air born contaminants if a bypass filter system is not used to analytically clean the oil regularly.
Huskster what type of air filter do you use?
That CM oil filter seems ok but there are others I know of that will do a better job.
quote:That CM oil filter seems ok but there are others I know of that will do a better job.
Ampere, what other spin-on filters are worth considering?
First of all: It is Houckster, not Huckster.
Secondly, SynLube is composed of 5 synthetic baseoils and 3 solid lubricants. The solid lubricants are specifically designed for use in as automotive lubricants. PAO is definitely one of the liquid lubricants but the formula is proprietary so I can't tell you more.
The teflon in SynLube is made by Shamrock Industries and is between 0.7 and 1.0 microns. By way of comparison, red blood cells are 7.5 microns. Will teflon crystallize at 450 degrees? Maybe, I don't know but what's the problem? Even your engine's hotspots won't get anywhere near that temperature. What do you think would happen with conventional dino at that temperature? This is not a problem as no OEM could possibly permit such an engine to reach the marketplace.
With regard to the oil filter, a bypass system would be "better" but I can see no advantage in conjunction with SynLube. If SynLube is installed in an engine that's in good condition, the most important function of the filter is to permit high flow rates. Since essentially no engine wear will occur with SynLube and because SynLube does not deteriorate, there will essentially nothing for the filter to trap. I confirmed this myself when I removed the CM filter after three years. I have looked at many filters, none approach the CM filter's quality.
I suggest you read the posts, pro and con, and then look at the SynLube site. While it's poorly done from a webmaster's POV, it does have a lot of good information. Personally, I've said what there is to say about SynLube. From here on, people will have to make their own call.
I use a K&N filter in my stock air intake.
Secondly, SynLube is composed of 5 synthetic baseoils and 3 solid lubricants. The solid lubricants are specifically designed for use in as automotive lubricants. PAO is definitely one of the liquid lubricants but the formula is proprietary so I can't tell you more.
The teflon in SynLube is made by Shamrock Industries and is between 0.7 and 1.0 microns. By way of comparison, red blood cells are 7.5 microns. Will teflon crystallize at 450 degrees? Maybe, I don't know but what's the problem? Even your engine's hotspots won't get anywhere near that temperature. What do you think would happen with conventional dino at that temperature? This is not a problem as no OEM could possibly permit such an engine to reach the marketplace.
With regard to the oil filter, a bypass system would be "better" but I can see no advantage in conjunction with SynLube. If SynLube is installed in an engine that's in good condition, the most important function of the filter is to permit high flow rates. Since essentially no engine wear will occur with SynLube and because SynLube does not deteriorate, there will essentially nothing for the filter to trap. I confirmed this myself when I removed the CM filter after three years. I have looked at many filters, none approach the CM filter's quality.
I suggest you read the posts, pro and con, and then look at the SynLube site. While it's poorly done from a webmaster's POV, it does have a lot of good information. Personally, I've said what there is to say about SynLube. From here on, people will have to make their own call.
I use a K&N filter in my stock air intake.
All good points, Houckster.
I've made up my mind that when I changed my oil and Fram filter at a quick change oil outlet a month ago while on a trip to Sudbury at a cost of $75. that it was the last time. I'll be due for another oil change next spring so plan to have a filter and enough Synlube shipped to my daughter's place in the States for my car, diesel-powered electric generator, gasoline power washer and my John Deere lawnmower.
It's telling and interesting that you've noted that the CM oil filter was particularly clean after 3 years of filtering Synlube.
I've made up my mind that when I changed my oil and Fram filter at a quick change oil outlet a month ago while on a trip to Sudbury at a cost of $75. that it was the last time. I'll be due for another oil change next spring so plan to have a filter and enough Synlube shipped to my daughter's place in the States for my car, diesel-powered electric generator, gasoline power washer and my John Deere lawnmower.
It's telling and interesting that you've noted that the CM oil filter was particularly clean after 3 years of filtering Synlube.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Houckster:
Tell me who else is getting the results I am after using their oil 37K miles over 3.75 years with almost no oil consumption and gas mileage substantially above the old EPA system estimate. And compared to dino oil, I'm saving money. I broke even at 23,600 miles and that includes the cost for the extra quart of Service Fill I purchased which is almost unused.
[QUOTE]
Ok what results are we talking about. Fuel economy is very subjective, I get considerably higher mileage then I should using the old system as well. I am not claiming that pennzoil is doing anything special. Over the summer I had several tanks over 40mpg in a car that should get 38mpg highway on the old system. Mileage changes are very hard to prove from person to person and car to car.
How did you break even at 23K miles? I did the math for my work car and I need more then 75k miles just to break even. If we say that testing oil is fallible then Amsoils claims of 25K can be taken at face value. One could run 3 changes of Amsoil and use their filters to its warrantied limits, right? That would also mean my 5k mile dino changes are to short as well since the lab is more then likely wrong, right? I did my math for both dino and Amsoil, it was 72k for dino and 75k for Amsoil respectively. If I had any oil consumption past half a quart in 75k miles then I would need 100k miles just to break even.
You also do rather few miles at roughly 10k a year with trips out of town included. I do my normal commute 5 days a week and run 25k per year, I even drive my truck or 1 of my other cars to work from time to time and never drive my car on the weekends. I only commute in my car and never take it out of town, if I did my mileage average would go up noticeably. Its hard to make a comparison on 1 car unless you had something to compare it to in the same car. If you had a good baseline on whatever oil you like then switched it would be better for comparison of claims.
I still don't see a way to discount the analysis results since synlube wants you to sample your oil and will put you on a maitainence plan so they can tell you when to sample it. If analysis is so flaud then we can take allot of claims at face value not just synlubes. 35k miles is more then possible and we can explain away any bad results as lab errors and poor sample handling. Just like I said earlier and synlube actually suggests you need a VOA and 3 used samples tested to determine what has changed. Oh and using the same lab each time would only be prudent.
I'm actually still interested in this oil although not for cost saving reasons. Much like a hybrid I cannot make the numbers work to my advantage even using full retail prices.
Tell me who else is getting the results I am after using their oil 37K miles over 3.75 years with almost no oil consumption and gas mileage substantially above the old EPA system estimate. And compared to dino oil, I'm saving money. I broke even at 23,600 miles and that includes the cost for the extra quart of Service Fill I purchased which is almost unused.
[QUOTE]
Ok what results are we talking about. Fuel economy is very subjective, I get considerably higher mileage then I should using the old system as well. I am not claiming that pennzoil is doing anything special. Over the summer I had several tanks over 40mpg in a car that should get 38mpg highway on the old system. Mileage changes are very hard to prove from person to person and car to car.
How did you break even at 23K miles? I did the math for my work car and I need more then 75k miles just to break even. If we say that testing oil is fallible then Amsoils claims of 25K can be taken at face value. One could run 3 changes of Amsoil and use their filters to its warrantied limits, right? That would also mean my 5k mile dino changes are to short as well since the lab is more then likely wrong, right? I did my math for both dino and Amsoil, it was 72k for dino and 75k for Amsoil respectively. If I had any oil consumption past half a quart in 75k miles then I would need 100k miles just to break even.
You also do rather few miles at roughly 10k a year with trips out of town included. I do my normal commute 5 days a week and run 25k per year, I even drive my truck or 1 of my other cars to work from time to time and never drive my car on the weekends. I only commute in my car and never take it out of town, if I did my mileage average would go up noticeably. Its hard to make a comparison on 1 car unless you had something to compare it to in the same car. If you had a good baseline on whatever oil you like then switched it would be better for comparison of claims.
I still don't see a way to discount the analysis results since synlube wants you to sample your oil and will put you on a maitainence plan so they can tell you when to sample it. If analysis is so flaud then we can take allot of claims at face value not just synlubes. 35k miles is more then possible and we can explain away any bad results as lab errors and poor sample handling. Just like I said earlier and synlube actually suggests you need a VOA and 3 used samples tested to determine what has changed. Oh and using the same lab each time would only be prudent.
I'm actually still interested in this oil although not for cost saving reasons. Much like a hybrid I cannot make the numbers work to my advantage even using full retail prices.
TatersAndNoodles: I will respond to these question when I can.
With regard to the cost, the 23.6K figure was derived from the traditional 3K OCI @ $25 a pop. I spent $195.50 to install the SynLube. That included a quart of Service Fill. SynLube sells a "kit" for converting to SynLube which is 15% off the cost of the retail price.
More later.
I really do suggest e-mailing SynLube with some of your questions because Miro has some good information you might find interesting.
With regard to the cost, the 23.6K figure was derived from the traditional 3K OCI @ $25 a pop. I spent $195.50 to install the SynLube. That included a quart of Service Fill. SynLube sells a "kit" for converting to SynLube which is 15% off the cost of the retail price.
More later.
I really do suggest e-mailing SynLube with some of your questions because Miro has some good information you might find interesting.
Taterandnoodles, Houckster drive 9867 miles a year(37K divided to 3.75). I don't think Amsoil would be a good alternative in the long run. Remember that Synlube gives a 15 year warranty. Both my cars are running better than ever, after changing to Synlube. Both are diesels. The one I drive, is a 1990 model Nissan 2.8 diesel, with a total of 423000 kilometers on the odometer. I have now been driving 33000 kilometers since putting Synlube in(April this year). The other car is driven by my wife(2003 Mercedes Vaneo 1.7cdi with a superchip). I put Synlube in late this summer, and it has been driven some 20000 kilometers since. Both engines have become a lot quieter, and a slight reduction in fuelconsumption(some 4%), according to exact meassuring of fuleconsumption divided to miles driven. It also performs extremely well in both the manual(Nissan) and automatic(Mercedes) transmissions. Here in Norway we pay 200usd for one hour work at the car workshop, so I guess I will reach break-even in 2008.
Again as many have asked for already in this thread something less subjective is a much better argument. My car is quieter, runs better and has more power are all poor examples if done subjectively by the car owner. Its called placebo effect.
My butt dyno is broken!!! I cannot tell the difference from one oil to the next without a significant change in weights at the least. Without some indication that my pennzoil is shot I could see me running it to the max and beyond with the car still running down the road just like the day I installed it.
Again the argument for cost savings is not there, at least for me. Last I checked the havoline lube shop charged $40 to change your oil, merchants tire normally charges $25 or $15 if you are getting something else done. I have 6 free oil changes in my glove box right now for a flub-up they had with my tires not being in the store. It costs me $13 at full price to change my oil buying my filter, which by the way I get for free from the dealer. If I didn't mind the dealer working on my car I can get free oil changes for life. It is part of their "Southern Hospitality" that the dealership uses to draw customers in, along with that you get safety inspections, loaner cars etc. It's hard to argue with free. But as we all know motor oil can be had for far below retail so why not do it myself for $3+ my free filter. Do the math on that, its a really long time to get to even.
If there is something less subjective and more repeatable that can be brought to the table then wonderful and I am all eyes, if not then we need to let it drop honestly.
My butt dyno is broken!!! I cannot tell the difference from one oil to the next without a significant change in weights at the least. Without some indication that my pennzoil is shot I could see me running it to the max and beyond with the car still running down the road just like the day I installed it.
Again the argument for cost savings is not there, at least for me. Last I checked the havoline lube shop charged $40 to change your oil, merchants tire normally charges $25 or $15 if you are getting something else done. I have 6 free oil changes in my glove box right now for a flub-up they had with my tires not being in the store. It costs me $13 at full price to change my oil buying my filter, which by the way I get for free from the dealer. If I didn't mind the dealer working on my car I can get free oil changes for life. It is part of their "Southern Hospitality" that the dealership uses to draw customers in, along with that you get safety inspections, loaner cars etc. It's hard to argue with free. But as we all know motor oil can be had for far below retail so why not do it myself for $3+ my free filter. Do the math on that, its a really long time to get to even.
If there is something less subjective and more repeatable that can be brought to the table then wonderful and I am all eyes, if not then we need to let it drop honestly.
I don't think almost 4 years(Houckster), using the same oil is subjective, Tateandnoodles. Neither is the drop in oilconsumption. UOA have too many variables that you don't control, unless you want to spend an insane amount of money for the most expencive one. I don't really think you are seriously considdering Synlube as an oil for your truck/car. You are just trying to justify your own choise. Just stay happy with what you are using now, and let people that use Synlube tell what their experience is, without having to do series of labtesting to justify it.
Synlube makes my engines perform better and also reduce smoke,noise and oilconsumption a lot, and these reasons alone, would have been enough for me to make the switch. Then, when I on top of that, can se a drop in fuelconsumption(4%Mercedes and 5% Nissan), I considder it to be a bargain.
However, I can see that we have different preferances, and that's OK by me.
Synlube makes my engines perform better and also reduce smoke,noise and oilconsumption a lot, and these reasons alone, would have been enough for me to make the switch. Then, when I on top of that, can se a drop in fuelconsumption(4%Mercedes and 5% Nissan), I considder it to be a bargain.
However, I can see that we have different preferances, and that's OK by me.
TATERANDNOODLES: You, as well as other, continue to misconstrue my comments.
First of all, I am not selling this oil and I have no concern whether you use SynLube or not. I have discussed my experiences and I will continue to do so. Whether you believe me or not is your choice.
I have been talking about this oil for years and I've learned that only a minute number of people will ever be willing to use SynLube. And "oil experts" almost certainly won't.
Second, I am not going to pay for your research by doing tests and paying for UOAs that will not benefit me one bit. I know SynLube works. I and others (like Jonny-B) have found out on a day by day basis. Will the oil you use duplicate what SynLube has done for me? No, it won't and the oil manufacturer would think you crazy to try.
And oil testing IS highly subjective. The readings you get are just the point of departure. You have to figure out what they mean. Oil tests usually raise as many or more questions than they answer. And here's something you can take to the bank. If I paid for a bunch of UOAs that came out with glorious results for SynLube, those same people who wanted them would find some way to dismiss the results.
Third, I know what I have with SynLube and my CM filter: absolute protection and maximum fuel efficiency for the next 6 plus years.
Every time you have your oil changed, you have to answer the same questions. Did they do the job right? Or did they have a "flub-up"? Did they really use a quality oil? Before SynLube, I went to the local Jiffy-Lube. The oil was dipensed from oil barrels that may or may not have had what they said was in them. I always wondered. If you're OK with that, fine but I've got better things to do than fool around with oil maintenance.
Moreover, your argument that SynLube doesn't save money is not well considered. Yes, you can get cheap oil changes but you get cheap oil and a cheap filter. If you're willing to use products with that kind of quality, why are you even talking about SynLube in the first place? And the six oil changes you got for free cannot possibly be considered part of a relevant comparison. The only reasonable comparison is to match SynLube's cost over its rated life against what you would pay for the oil you favor now for the same number of miles. I have seen few cases where SynLube doesn't come out on top when all the relevant factors are properly considered.
And what about the environmental impact of all those oil changes? Most oil taken to the recycle center is never actually used again. All that really happens is that the oil is disposed of safely. In comparison, at 10 years, I drain the SynLube and send it back to the company for a credit towards the purchase of more SynLube. The old SynLube will be microfiltered and the additive package restored if necessary. Then it's good for another 150K miles, 3K engine hours, or 10 years. In the end, most cars will produce hundreds of quarts of used motor oil. My Ranger will have only five quarts of dino that was drained when I converted.
The bottom line is that you have a choice between SynLube that was designed to be the best oil, period, vs. other oils that have been designed to provide reliable service for an acceptable amount of time for the maximum possible profit.
BTW, sorry about your DYNO-BUTT.
First of all, I am not selling this oil and I have no concern whether you use SynLube or not. I have discussed my experiences and I will continue to do so. Whether you believe me or not is your choice.
I have been talking about this oil for years and I've learned that only a minute number of people will ever be willing to use SynLube. And "oil experts" almost certainly won't.
Second, I am not going to pay for your research by doing tests and paying for UOAs that will not benefit me one bit. I know SynLube works. I and others (like Jonny-B) have found out on a day by day basis. Will the oil you use duplicate what SynLube has done for me? No, it won't and the oil manufacturer would think you crazy to try.
And oil testing IS highly subjective. The readings you get are just the point of departure. You have to figure out what they mean. Oil tests usually raise as many or more questions than they answer. And here's something you can take to the bank. If I paid for a bunch of UOAs that came out with glorious results for SynLube, those same people who wanted them would find some way to dismiss the results.
Third, I know what I have with SynLube and my CM filter: absolute protection and maximum fuel efficiency for the next 6 plus years.
Every time you have your oil changed, you have to answer the same questions. Did they do the job right? Or did they have a "flub-up"? Did they really use a quality oil? Before SynLube, I went to the local Jiffy-Lube. The oil was dipensed from oil barrels that may or may not have had what they said was in them. I always wondered. If you're OK with that, fine but I've got better things to do than fool around with oil maintenance.
Moreover, your argument that SynLube doesn't save money is not well considered. Yes, you can get cheap oil changes but you get cheap oil and a cheap filter. If you're willing to use products with that kind of quality, why are you even talking about SynLube in the first place? And the six oil changes you got for free cannot possibly be considered part of a relevant comparison. The only reasonable comparison is to match SynLube's cost over its rated life against what you would pay for the oil you favor now for the same number of miles. I have seen few cases where SynLube doesn't come out on top when all the relevant factors are properly considered.
And what about the environmental impact of all those oil changes? Most oil taken to the recycle center is never actually used again. All that really happens is that the oil is disposed of safely. In comparison, at 10 years, I drain the SynLube and send it back to the company for a credit towards the purchase of more SynLube. The old SynLube will be microfiltered and the additive package restored if necessary. Then it's good for another 150K miles, 3K engine hours, or 10 years. In the end, most cars will produce hundreds of quarts of used motor oil. My Ranger will have only five quarts of dino that was drained when I converted.
The bottom line is that you have a choice between SynLube that was designed to be the best oil, period, vs. other oils that have been designed to provide reliable service for an acceptable amount of time for the maximum possible profit.
BTW, sorry about your DYNO-BUTT.
quote:Second, I am not going to pay for your research by doing tests and paying for UOAs that will not benefit me one bit. I know SynLube works.
T&N, you are wasting your time. These people KNOW they are right. No need for verification.
quote:Originally posted by synskeptic:
If SynLube is that remarkable it makes me wonder why one of the premier auto builders (especially one with low volumn production) are not using it in their cars. The people who buy that type of auto wouldn't care about the price per quart but would probably love the convenience and not having to have their oil changed.
Its like $30 a quart isnt it? That may be one reason, two would be they need engines to wear out eventually. If this oil could really last the lifetime of the car, how many companies would that put out of business?
I hope it would put out of business those who hurt the environment on purpose(3000mile OCI-advice). We don't need such companies.
I don't think there is a chance this will happen in the nesrest future, because most people are not willing to try something new, as long as what they have, is working satisfactory.
Besides, with this oil, you can do what the big oilcompanies have told you NOT to do for the last 50 years(drive more than 3000 mile on a OCI).
It is very interesting to see that most people think that oil hasn't improved a bit since the 50's.
Tempest and Jason(from BITOG?), you are just trying to bring the ideas from the "other board" over here.
These ideas can be boiled down to: The cheaper the better, Only dino works, WalMart is GO(O)D, 50 mile OCI is the best.
I don't think there is a chance this will happen in the nesrest future, because most people are not willing to try something new, as long as what they have, is working satisfactory.
Besides, with this oil, you can do what the big oilcompanies have told you NOT to do for the last 50 years(drive more than 3000 mile on a OCI).
It is very interesting to see that most people think that oil hasn't improved a bit since the 50's.
Tempest and Jason(from BITOG?), you are just trying to bring the ideas from the "other board" over here.
These ideas can be boiled down to: The cheaper the better, Only dino works, WalMart is GO(O)D, 50 mile OCI is the best.
quote:Originally posted by jonny-b:
I hope it would put out of business those who hurt the environment on purpose(3000mile OCI-advice). We don't need such companies.
I don't think there is a chance this will happen in the nesrest future, because most people are not willing to try something new, as long as what they have, is working satisfactory.
Besides, with this oil, you can do what the big oilcompanies have told you NOT to do for the last 50 years(drive more than 3000 mile on a OCI).
It is very interesting to see that most people think that oil hasn't improved a bit since the 50's.
Tempest and Jason(from BITOG?), you are just trying to bring the ideas from the "other board" over here.
These ideas can be boiled down to: The cheaper the better, Only dino works, WalMart is GO(O)D, 50 mile OCI is the best.
Not at all, I dont worry about the price I pay, thats why I have a case of Redline, and paid $6 a quart for the Motorcraft full synthetic for my truck. And no I dont subscribe to anyones ideas but my own, I was speaking realistically what the bean counters at an auto manufacturer would say to putting $150+ dollars worth of oil into every vehicle they make. How much could it cost to fill an F350 diesel, or the Dodge Cummins? I havent done it because I like working on my truck, I enjoy changing the oil. I join these sites to learn, not to push my ideas on what I think should be done or any particular oil.
Hi, Jason.
As you said, the auto manufacturer is a part of the problem. They want you to come back, and when they use ordinary oil, they are sure you will visit them soon. Besides, 150 bucks is a lot of money to pay, especially when the customer don't know that this could save him for a lot of time and money.
For most people, the extra quality of a better oil, is worth nothing. It has something to do with knowledge and experience.
If you have been driving a Lada(Russian car) all your life, you don't understand the need for a BMW.
I like to work on my cars too, but now I can use this time to do other things. Like helping my friends, when they are changing oil.
Of the ordinary oils, I considder Redline and Amsoil to be among the best ones.
As you said, the auto manufacturer is a part of the problem. They want you to come back, and when they use ordinary oil, they are sure you will visit them soon. Besides, 150 bucks is a lot of money to pay, especially when the customer don't know that this could save him for a lot of time and money.
For most people, the extra quality of a better oil, is worth nothing. It has something to do with knowledge and experience.
If you have been driving a Lada(Russian car) all your life, you don't understand the need for a BMW.
I like to work on my cars too, but now I can use this time to do other things. Like helping my friends, when they are changing oil.
Of the ordinary oils, I considder Redline and Amsoil to be among the best ones.
Ive looked hard at Synlube several times, but back then it was one of those things I couldnt imagine doing. I think I would do it now, but I have like 100 qts of oil in my house already that need to be used first.
I agree with Jason8691. I like to go back to the SynLube site every now and then and see if Miro has added any interesting material. I would like for him to come out with a 0W50 (It's actually very close now) and a 0W60 oil even though the latter would be very expensive.
Every now and then Miro will drop me a line asking about the mileage on the oil and about oil consumption. I'll ask if he's reconsidered next time.
Every now and then Miro will drop me a line asking about the mileage on the oil and about oil consumption. I'll ask if he's reconsidered next time.
Hi, Houckster.
Something new has happened. For diesel cars, you now get only 5/40 oil, in both Initial and Add oil. For petrol cars, however, it is still 5/50. I don't think there is a need for a thicker oil than the 5/50, because of the solids in Synlube.
I don't have a petrol car, but I found something interesting here: www.enginebrain.com . I have bought it as a Christmas gift for my brother, and I am also interested to hear from anyone that have any experience with it.
Something new has happened. For diesel cars, you now get only 5/40 oil, in both Initial and Add oil. For petrol cars, however, it is still 5/50. I don't think there is a need for a thicker oil than the 5/50, because of the solids in Synlube.
I don't have a petrol car, but I found something interesting here: www.enginebrain.com . I have bought it as a Christmas gift for my brother, and I am also interested to hear from anyone that have any experience with it.
JONNY-B: I'm not really surprised. The needs of gas and diesel engines have grown more different as a function of increase pollution-reducing measure like low sulphur fuel take effect. It makes sense to produce a no-compromise diesel lube.
Miro had told me that he anticipated doing this last year or early this year:
The 5W-50 may be split into two versions in 2007 due to new Diesel Requirements that conflict with Gasoline Engine needs, and thus universal oil may be cost prohibitive to produce.
___
It was nice having just one oil but the 5W50 is still available and that's key for us gassers. OTOH, diesel owners can purchase an oil idealized for their engine's needs.
Miro had told me that he anticipated doing this last year or early this year:
The 5W-50 may be split into two versions in 2007 due to new Diesel Requirements that conflict with Gasoline Engine needs, and thus universal oil may be cost prohibitive to produce.
___
It was nice having just one oil but the 5W50 is still available and that's key for us gassers. OTOH, diesel owners can purchase an oil idealized for their engine's needs.
Ok guys, 5w40 is THINNER than 5w50. The first number is what viscosity the oil is rated at in cold temperatures. The last number is the SAE base oil rating of the oil. So 5w40 is a 40 weight oil that will act like a 5 weight oil when cold, same with the 5w50. It is a 50 weight oil that acts like a 5 weight when cold.
Hi, Dad.
The point is: due to new diesel oil requirements, Synlube have come up with a new oil for dieselengines, that replace the old 5/50.
The new oil is a 5/40. For gasoline engines you still have the 5/50.
However, diesel engines can still use the 5/50, but it does not meet the CJ-4 requirements(but the new 5/40 does).
The point is: due to new diesel oil requirements, Synlube have come up with a new oil for dieselengines, that replace the old 5/50.
The new oil is a 5/40. For gasoline engines you still have the 5/50.
However, diesel engines can still use the 5/50, but it does not meet the CJ-4 requirements(but the new 5/40 does).
quote:As you said, the auto manufacturer is a part of the problem. They want you to come back, and when they use ordinary oil, they are sure you will visit them soon.
BS. Transmission, dif, bearings, suspension...all lube for life (at least that is what they want you to believe in their marketing
). If they could market a car that did not have to have the engine oil changed, they would do it in a minute. The enviro aspect alone would be a huge selling point that they would love to capitilize on (Hybrids anyone?). The fact that they are not doing this is a good indicator of reality.
I think the person with the most BS here, is the one who doesn't know what he is talking about, since he hasn't tried the product he so boldly states is worthless.
If you want to know what it is like to drive a new car or how it feels like to be on Everest, don't you think it is wise to talk to someone who have done it themselves?
I can see that you have an idea about that,Tempest.
If you want to know what it is like to drive a new car or how it feels like to be on Everest, don't you think it is wise to talk to someone who have done it themselves?
I can see that you have an idea about that,Tempest.
quote:since he hasn't tried the product
Stuck your hand in a fire?
Jumped off a bridge?
Hopped in front of bus?
Stood behind (or in front of, for that matter) a jet engine?
Drove a car over your foot?
You don't have to try these things to know that they will hurt. By your logic, you do.
quote:BS. Transmission, dif, bearings, suspension...all lube for life (at least that is what they want you to believe in their marketing graemlin:
I don't buy that argument. Perhaps the auto manufacturers may want to market a car that doesn't require an oil change during it life. However, the oil companies would not be happy with this arrangement. The shareholders would have their heads if they were to market a product that would reduce sales.
I think you are totally correct, inHaliburton.
Of course the oilcompanies want what is best for them, not you and me, or the environment.
A person must be very narrowminded(or brainwashed), if he/she doesn't understand such a simple thing.
Thinking that the oilcompanies want what is best for you, is really being a bit naive.
What is even worse, is when the same person is trying to tell others that what he doesn't know or understand, doesn't exist.
Of course the oilcompanies want what is best for them, not you and me, or the environment.
A person must be very narrowminded(or brainwashed), if he/she doesn't understand such a simple thing.
Thinking that the oilcompanies want what is best for you, is really being a bit naive.
What is even worse, is when the same person is trying to tell others that what he doesn't know or understand, doesn't exist.
Tempest writes (unfortunately) concerning my contention that he should try to understand the product before condemning it:
Tempest: You simply are a mess. Every day, SynLube users like Jonny-B and myself go out and drive without a single problem. But that doesn't matter to you: SynLube is an illusion. Your blindness is just what marketing departments are for.
I have 37K on the oil with no oil consumption and well above normal fuel economy. Jonny-B has had excellent service as well. Care to tell us when our engines will blow up?
You're beating a dead horse here. I'm not due to change my oil for another 6 years. And even at that point, the oil will have plenty nearly all of its new performance because the OCI for this oil is about half of its effective life.
You're asking us to substitute your judgment for reality. I think I'll pass.
And then, we have this little gem from TEMPEST:
Toyota's Yaris doesn't even have a drain plug for its automatic or manual transmissions. Is this the wave of the future? Or are they just trying to prevent their cars from lasting so long in order to increase sales. Maybe they know that products like SynLube would keep people out of the showrooms? Hmmmm?
And another reason the OEMs don't bring out cars with lifetime engine, differential and transmission oils? Because of people like you, Tempest, who would never believe it was possible and would complain bitterly.
Finally, don't you think the car dealers would be just a bit put out when a good source of business is suddenly wiped out?
quote:Stuck your hand in a fire?
Jumped off a bridge?
Hopped in front of bus?
Stood behind (or in front of, for that matter) a jet engine?
Drove a car over your foot?
You don't have to try these things to know that they will hurt. By your logic, you do.
Tempest: You simply are a mess. Every day, SynLube users like Jonny-B and myself go out and drive without a single problem. But that doesn't matter to you: SynLube is an illusion. Your blindness is just what marketing departments are for.
I have 37K on the oil with no oil consumption and well above normal fuel economy. Jonny-B has had excellent service as well. Care to tell us when our engines will blow up?
You're beating a dead horse here. I'm not due to change my oil for another 6 years. And even at that point, the oil will have plenty nearly all of its new performance because the OCI for this oil is about half of its effective life.
You're asking us to substitute your judgment for reality. I think I'll pass.
And then, we have this little gem from TEMPEST:
Honestly, when are ya gonna start thinking things through? Many cars already have bearings that are made to last the life of the vehicle so the concept is not foreign to the OEMs. That's why my Ranger doesn't have grease fittings though I wish it did so I could inject some of SynLube's excellent grease in them.quote:BS. Transmission, dif, bearings, suspension...all lube for life (at least that is what they want you to believe in their marketing ). If they could market a car that did not have to have the engine oil changed, they would do it in a minute. The enviro aspect alone would be a huge selling point that they would love to capitilize on (Hybrids anyone?). The fact that they are not doing this is a good indicator of reality.
Toyota's Yaris doesn't even have a drain plug for its automatic or manual transmissions. Is this the wave of the future? Or are they just trying to prevent their cars from lasting so long in order to increase sales. Maybe they know that products like SynLube would keep people out of the showrooms? Hmmmm?
And another reason the OEMs don't bring out cars with lifetime engine, differential and transmission oils? Because of people like you, Tempest, who would never believe it was possible and would complain bitterly.
Finally, don't you think the car dealers would be just a bit put out when a good source of business is suddenly wiped out?
Houckster, to piggyback on a few of your points in your last post, it's evident that the auto manufacturers are able to produce engines capable of performing well for many hundreds of thousands of kilometers (and like you, I wish my Focus had grease nipples), but they seem incapable (or unwilling) of producing bodies that won't deteriorate must past 5 year, even with yearly undercoating.
In another vein, have a look at the current issue of Consumer Reports and look at the percentage of people who would purchase again the car they are currently driving. Not the lack of North American cars.
Then look at the percentage of people who would not re-purchase the current car they are driving. Observe the number of North American cars that fall within this group.
In another vein, have a look at the current issue of Consumer Reports and look at the percentage of people who would purchase again the car they are currently driving. Not the lack of North American cars.
Then look at the percentage of people who would not re-purchase the current car they are driving. Observe the number of North American cars that fall within this group.
quote:And another reason the OEMs don't bring out cars with lifetime engine, differential and transmission oils?
Get a clue. Did you read my post? The point of my post is that they are ALREADY saying most of these are lube for life, WITHOUT Synlube. They want the least maninance cost, least trouble they can advertise. They know consumers don't want to maintain their vehicles. Chrysler has an unlimited powertrain warranty as a perfect example of the "no worry" advertising mindset. If they could advertise no oil changes for 15 years, the car companies would be all over it.
And I'm not talking about oil companies. 2 different entities.
And as far as people having problems with it:
quote:After about 15k on the oil, my Nissan Murano no longer carries Synlube. I have no hard factual evidence against Synlube other than my experience and what I was told.
Our Murano started to exhibit a "whine" of sorts around the time I posted above. It was an intermittent whine that sounded like it was the AC compressor as it seemed to have started while it was getting hot here and only happened at idle. We had our Murano in for what I would call an ever so slight "knocking" at take-off from a stop shortly before this whine started, in which the dealer never verified nor could find any cause. We just brushed it off until this whine started. It started to get worse so we made our trip to the dealer and was able to show them the sound.
They had called the next day and I was floored when the service manager told me he had changed the oil as whatever was in there was SO SLUDGED that it sort of chunked out. They did two engine flushes, filled it with their dino of choice and sent us on our way. I felt like a complete idiot as I had to play dumb (for warranty reasons) that I kept it on a strict DIY chance schedule. They asked me what I used and I told them "walmart brand synthetic oil" to get me off the hook a little. They admited to doing nothing more to the car than said service of oil change and flushes. It hasn't whined SINCE.
I have kept up with 4k (exxon dino) changes and all is fine. I honestly have noticed a slight drop in mpg's though being back on dino but it could just be change of driving habit as my wife now works closer to home.
I did contact Synlube and they told me I could have gotten 100% refund had I gotten back the drained oil (I was a little mad at Nissan for doing the service without asking, no matter how little it may seem to them) and he did offer that it may have been misinterpreted as sludge as Synlube is different looking to most mechanics. He did also suggest maybe something WAS fixed, but hidden as the oil, as dealers sometimes do (especially one who admits DIY changes) so as to shift any warranty possibilites later. I don't know what to think other than the car has been fine since and my wife has cursed me for "getting scammed on that expensive #@$%! oil I put in her car".
I think Synlube has good intentions and never once seemed dishonest. I can't say I would ever use it again as it seems the risks outweight rewards and there being just about zero hard evidence (other than testimonials) of its claims or worth. No hard feelings, just didn't work out for me. No where near 50k on one oil change.
From a post on BITOG. The stuff is junk.
Tempest, you just keep missing the point.
Tempest sadly writes: Get a clue. Did you read my post? The point of my post is that they are ALREADY saying most of these are lube for life, WITHOUT Synlube. They want the least maninance cost, least trouble they can advertise. They know consumers don't want to maintain their vehicles. Chrysler has an unlimited powertrain warranty as a perfect example of the "no worry" advertising mindset. If they could advertise no oil changes for 15 years, the car companies would be all over it.
No Tempest, they wouldn't. It is one thing to seal the bearings because it saves money in production. It is quite another for them to do away with a proven money-maker for the dealers like oil changes. You simply are so busy trying to attack SynLube that you're not paying attention to what you say, let alone what I'm talking about.
As as far as the Murano incident, again you simply are not thinking clearly. The dealer changes out the SynLube without permission and without finding out about the oil and now that's proof positive that SynLube's junk? Get a very big grip on your mind because you're losing it. If this had happened with the oil you favored involved, would you be so willing to believe the oil was at fault. Is it so impossible to believe that the problem might not have been oil-related? I guess for you it is.
And as far as BITOG goes, I have such a low opinion of them that I wouldn't trust anyone there. BITOG is junk.
Tempest sadly writes: Get a clue. Did you read my post? The point of my post is that they are ALREADY saying most of these are lube for life, WITHOUT Synlube. They want the least maninance cost, least trouble they can advertise. They know consumers don't want to maintain their vehicles. Chrysler has an unlimited powertrain warranty as a perfect example of the "no worry" advertising mindset. If they could advertise no oil changes for 15 years, the car companies would be all over it.
No Tempest, they wouldn't. It is one thing to seal the bearings because it saves money in production. It is quite another for them to do away with a proven money-maker for the dealers like oil changes. You simply are so busy trying to attack SynLube that you're not paying attention to what you say, let alone what I'm talking about.
As as far as the Murano incident, again you simply are not thinking clearly. The dealer changes out the SynLube without permission and without finding out about the oil and now that's proof positive that SynLube's junk? Get a very big grip on your mind because you're losing it. If this had happened with the oil you favored involved, would you be so willing to believe the oil was at fault. Is it so impossible to believe that the problem might not have been oil-related? I guess for you it is.
And as far as BITOG goes, I have such a low opinion of them that I wouldn't trust anyone there. BITOG is junk.
quote:It is one thing to seal the bearings because it saves money in production. It is quite another for them to do away with a proven money-maker for the dealers like oil changes. You simply are so busy trying to attack SynLube that you're not paying attention to what you say, let alone what I'm talking about.
You forgot once again that many OEMs are advertising lube for life tannies and difs already. If the dealer could make such good profit on these (both of which cost much more than an engine oil change), why would the OE cut the dealer out? 30K changes would bring in much more money. Makes no sense. Also, OEM is constantly rasing OCIs. Honda is at 10K, Ford is at 7.5K, many European manufacturers are @ 20K. If changing oil is such a great profit center, why would this be? Don't you think they would have a death grip on the 3K oil change? Not the case.
quote:If this had happened with the oil you favored involved, would you be so willing to believe the oil was at fault.
The guys was a big Synlube supporter as can be seen here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb...er=146629#Post146629 It did not work out for him.
quote:I have such a low opinion of them that I wouldn't trust anyone there.
Not a surprise considering the science over there (which can be easily verified on line with a little searching) is not in line with what you know works.
quote: After about 15k on the oil, my Nissan Murano no longer carries Synlube. I have no hard factual evidence against Synlube other than my experience and what I was told.
Hi, Tempest.
I guess you didn't know that this particular Nissan Murano had issues before he put Synlube in, according to the garage that serviced it before. Another thing, is that it probably wasn't Synlube at all in that engine, for whatever reason. At least one thing he should have done, was to see with his own eyes that the garage really put in Synlube, since he didn't care enough to change it himself. The servicemanager that had kept the Synlube for his own use, probably had a good laugh. Why else do you think he didn't take care of the used oil? It was because a test would have said that it wasn't Synlube. I am not sure, but I think I mentioned something about being naive...
Anyway, Tempest, I can see why you are having a good time at "the other board".
You really should spend more time over there.
Hi, Tempest.
I guess you didn't know that this particular Nissan Murano had issues before he put Synlube in, according to the garage that serviced it before. Another thing, is that it probably wasn't Synlube at all in that engine, for whatever reason. At least one thing he should have done, was to see with his own eyes that the garage really put in Synlube, since he didn't care enough to change it himself. The servicemanager that had kept the Synlube for his own use, probably had a good laugh. Why else do you think he didn't take care of the used oil? It was because a test would have said that it wasn't Synlube. I am not sure, but I think I mentioned something about being naive...
Anyway, Tempest, I can see why you are having a good time at "the other board".
You really should spend more time over there.
quote:it probably wasn't Synlube at all in that engine
Talk about conjecture to support your point. No evidence of that. Cetainly no more evidence than of any of the claims made in this thread.
quote:Anyway, Tempest, I can see why you are having a good time at "the other board".
You really should spend more time over there.
Ok, we are getting sooo far off of the topic that it isn't funny anymore.
Point being, you are either going to give the liquid gold a try, or you are going to stick to what YOU know works for YOU and YOUR engine. It is that simple.
Me? I probably would NOT use Synlube, not because of the reasons touted here, but because I have a system in place that works for me. Is it a quality product that can do more than the "brainwashed into our heads" 3K/3 months, heck yeah. I follow my engine minder and do about driving.
Yes, I used to be a very avid changer, even when using ester based synthetics, but now I've seen the light, save the cash, and listen to a computer that has been programmed to watch a hell of a lot more variables than I'll ever be able to pay attention to, or waste my brain cells doing it.
Point being, you are either going to give the liquid gold a try, or you are going to stick to what YOU know works for YOU and YOUR engine. It is that simple.
Me? I probably would NOT use Synlube, not because of the reasons touted here, but because I have a system in place that works for me. Is it a quality product that can do more than the "brainwashed into our heads" 3K/3 months, heck yeah. I follow my engine minder and do about driving.
Yes, I used to be a very avid changer, even when using ester based synthetics, but now I've seen the light, save the cash, and listen to a computer that has been programmed to watch a hell of a lot more variables than I'll ever be able to pay attention to, or waste my brain cells doing it.
The reason why I responded to Tempest, is because of his attitude about a product he know nothing about.
I am just satisfied with an oil that is doing something positive in my engines, and will report how many kilometers/miles the cars have with the same oil, without changing it.
By the way, I put it in February the 22nd and have been driving 34000 kilometers in my old Nissan with a total of 424000 kilometers on the odometer. According to those saying this oil is a scam, my engine will break down early next year because of the high mileage on this oil.
Want to place a bet, when this will occure?
In my Mercedes, I have an OLM that indicate when to change oil.
Unessesary to say that I will not follow its advice for when to do an oilchange.
When it comes to Synlube, I will be glad to hear from anyone that have PERSONAL experience with it, and not only heard something, from somebody who know somebody that have heard about someone that probaly is using Synlube.
I am just satisfied with an oil that is doing something positive in my engines, and will report how many kilometers/miles the cars have with the same oil, without changing it.
By the way, I put it in February the 22nd and have been driving 34000 kilometers in my old Nissan with a total of 424000 kilometers on the odometer. According to those saying this oil is a scam, my engine will break down early next year because of the high mileage on this oil.
Want to place a bet, when this will occure?
In my Mercedes, I have an OLM that indicate when to change oil.
Unessesary to say that I will not follow its advice for when to do an oilchange.
When it comes to Synlube, I will be glad to hear from anyone that have PERSONAL experience with it, and not only heard something, from somebody who know somebody that have heard about someone that probaly is using Synlube.
DAD2LEIA: What information does this "engine minder" system monitor?
My mother has a Camry and all I can figure out is that the maintenance light goes on every 5000 miles and that there's a very simple sequence to turn it off after the oil is changed. If the oil were being monitored and analyzed turning the maintenance light off wouldn't be necessary because when the new oil was monitored, the light should be turned off.
My mother has a Camry and all I can figure out is that the maintenance light goes on every 5000 miles and that there's a very simple sequence to turn it off after the oil is changed. If the oil were being monitored and analyzed turning the maintenance light off wouldn't be necessary because when the new oil was monitored, the light should be turned off.
Did I? Please specify which OEMs are doing this. But also specify just how long is the vehicle life that they certify to the US government?quote:You forgot once again that many OEMs are advertising lube for life tannies and difs already.
And just how permanent are these "permanent" oils? Do they tell you that it will last 150K miles like SynLube does? What do they really mean? I suspect they mean the useful life of the vehicle that they certify to the US government. And you might be surprised at the estimates. Especially in light of the light engine oils OEMs like Ford are using.
I'm not so sure the OEMs want us driving one vehicle 200K miles. As with the Yaris, they may be specifying "permanent" oils because they don't want this.
I do not contend that lubricants that last the life of the vehicle (as an owner would expect)and beyond are unknown. In fact, even though they didn't advertise it, Ford installed an axle in my Ranger from Dana that used an ester-based lubricant that Miro told me about to reduce warranty costs on differentials. He said it had a service life of about 750K miles and that there was no point in replacing the lube though I eventually did anyway because I replaced the OEM limited-slip with a PowerTrax unit.
If you will look at previous posts I've written, you will find that I have never contended that SynLube is a magical substance that is a total secret to other lube providers. The components of the SynLube formula are available to anyone who wants to make a SynLube competitor. But it's all about the money and dino oil is a money-maker. The dealership where I bought my Ranger has a service bay dedicated to oil changes and you can bet that that every effort will be made to sell that customer other services while he's there. You'd have a very unhappy dealer if Ford brought out cars that didn't need oil maintenance services.
And the Murano incident that you cite as positive proof that SynLube doesn't work just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The guy was screwed by the dealership that just assumed that the SynLube was full of sludge. If they had acted properly and recommended an oil change, the person would have had a chance to tell them that the oil's color was normal. And from the guy's comments about his wife, he was alsos bullied into not using SynLube again. We have no hard proof that SynLube was at fault. And that's what you would say if the oil you favor had been used, not SynLube.
Finally, TEMPEST, I am spending a great deal of time answering your posts and I just don't have any more time to waste. If you were truly interested in knowing about SynLube (whether you intened to use it or not), it would be one thing but you're certain that we've made a huge mistake in using SynLube and you're going to tell us that until you're blue in the face. Your mission is complete. I and others are fully aware of your views.
You are not going to change my mind and I know I'll never change yours. So, with your rejoinder to this post, know with pleasure, that you will have the last word. But also know that you have not presented anything that amounts to a substantive case against SynLube and when I purchase my next ride, I will consult with Miro about my lubrication maintenance program for that vehicle and install SynLube where he thinks it useful.
I haven't had the time to read all of the posts that have been flying about recently so I am working backwards.
Seriously are we trying to say that a shop knew the worth of synlube and filled an engine with canolla oil and stole the provided oil???
Jonny-b which of the items that you have been pimping is really meeting all of its claims, synlube or ceramax???? You have now highly pimped both. Or is synlube and ceramax the new wonder lube of the future?
Dad2leia is right try it or don't. Can we just cut the heavy pimping out. It's all a matter of opinion, we know the supports side can we leave it at that.
Seriously are we trying to say that a shop knew the worth of synlube and filled an engine with canolla oil and stole the provided oil???
Jonny-b which of the items that you have been pimping is really meeting all of its claims, synlube or ceramax???? You have now highly pimped both. Or is synlube and ceramax the new wonder lube of the future?
Dad2leia is right try it or don't. Can we just cut the heavy pimping out. It's all a matter of opinion, we know the supports side can we leave it at that.
quote:a product he know nothing about
What do you supossedly "know" about this oil? That it hasen't blown up your engine? That's about it. You "know" nothing of its base oil, additives, or anything else that is supposed to make this lube for life. So don't talk about me not knowing anything.
quote:you have not presented anything that amounts to a substantive case against SynLube
I have pointed out numerous accepted lubrication technical points that can be easily verified with a simple web search that show the flaws in what Synlube is marketing. Also several flaws and inconsistencies in Synlubes own website. What have you presented? Oh yeah..."I know it works."
+1quote:Can we just cut the heavy pimping out.
Taterandnoodles, they both work. They really make a difference.
However, since you are familiar with dino-oils, why don't you use what makes you happy? Another positive thing about doing so, is that you don't have to do any testing. You just change it every 3000miles.
When you get time enough to do some reading, do that.
You will be surprised to see that it is possible to learn something, by doing so.
However, since you are familiar with dino-oils, why don't you use what makes you happy? Another positive thing about doing so, is that you don't have to do any testing. You just change it every 3000miles.
When you get time enough to do some reading, do that.
You will be surprised to see that it is possible to learn something, by doing so.
quote:Jonny-b which of the items that you have been pimping is really meeting all of its claims, synlube or ceramax???? You have now highly pimped both. Or is synlube and ceramax the new wonder lube of the future?
The point is this: when I come back here in the year 2012 , telling you that I have been driving 100000 miles without changing oil, you will still say it doesn't work.
What are your intentions?
I don't think it is worth using any time to explain something to you, because you seem to have made up your mind already.
I guess others could be interested in seeing that this alternative to dino(and Amsoil)exist.
If Synlube is a socalled snake-oil, as you claim it to be, why is it still in bussiness?
And why is all the posts from angry customers with blown engines?
I guess you don't have a logical answer to those questions, but if you have, then please show me all the posts from all the thousands of customers that aren't satisfied. It should be a lot of them, considdered that Synlube have been in bussiness since the seventhies.
quote:What do you supossedly "know" about this oil? That it hasen't blown up your engine? That's about it. You "know" nothing of its base oil, additives, or anything else that is supposed to make this lube for life.[\quote]
Admit it. There is "nothing" that you would accept as "proof" that Synlube lives up to its claims.
By the way, why is it necessary for anyone to know about its base oil, additives, blah, blah, blah, for Synlube to be what it claims to be?
[quote]I have pointed out numerous accepted lubrication technical points that can be easily verified with a simple web search that show the flaws in what Synlube is marketing.
You have presented zip, nada, nothing.
quote:Also several flaws and inconsistencies in Synlubes own website.
Huh? Enlighten us with your vast knowledge on the contents of Synlube's website, please.
quote:What have you presented? Oh yeah..."I know it works."
Unlike you, and the many blenders and others who have graduated from schools of higher learning, Houckster has presented much useful information based upon his personal experience with Synlube products which are presented within the 20-plus pages in this thread. Houckster's calm and well-written prose on the subject has made me a believer in Synlube, unlike the rantings of the well-educated naysayers.
I hope you continue to enjoy changing oil in your pickup truck every three-thousand miles.
TATERANDNOODLES
And as far as "leaving it at that" goes, we're trying to but when people like TEMPEST just keep attacking, it is sometimes hard not to respond.
And it is not a matter of trying to get everyone to use SynLube. DAD2LEIA has considered the product and has decided to pass. He likes what he has and that's fine.
Please supply a functional definition of "pimping". How have our attemps to explain the advantages of a product while debunking the charges of the naysayers crossed into "pimping" territory?quote:Dad2leia is right try it or don't. Can we just cut the heavy pimping out. It's all a matter of opinion, we know the supports side can we leave it at that.
And as far as "leaving it at that" goes, we're trying to but when people like TEMPEST just keep attacking, it is sometimes hard not to respond.
And it is not a matter of trying to get everyone to use SynLube. DAD2LEIA has considered the product and has decided to pass. He likes what he has and that's fine.
From Machiavelli's "The Prince":
It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arriving partly from fear of their adversaries, who have the laws in their favor; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had an actual experience of it. Thus it arises that on every opportunity for attacking the reformer, the opponents do so with the zeal of partisans, the others only defend him halfheartedly, so that between them he runs great danger.
I wonder if Machiavelli would have tried SynLube?
It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arriving partly from fear of their adversaries, who have the laws in their favor; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had an actual experience of it. Thus it arises that on every opportunity for attacking the reformer, the opponents do so with the zeal of partisans, the others only defend him halfheartedly, so that between them he runs great danger.
I wonder if Machiavelli would have tried SynLube?
Wow, new guy here. Not a shill, tribologist or troll. Just got caught on this thread trying to familiarize myself with the board. Since it was a popular, active topic, decided to read the whole thing in one go and try to give an honest face value analysis of the human aspect, not the product. So here's a synopsis for those of us late to the party:
Houckster's "problem" started when the thread didn't die after he threatened to drop it. That's when Miro decided to appear, purportedly as himself.
Page 10, Miro shows up as a new user. Substantive comments "Sorry I do not have time to live on message boards.. " Seemed more to me like "I do not have time to masquerade as more than a few different people at one time." "Use it FIRST and then talk about it!" Blatant sales pitch? Pretty weak, IMHO.
Next post offered nothing but another sales pitch. No new info.
Next post another sales pitch sprinkled with philosophic and religious analogy. It's gettin' deep now boys.
Then there's the whole argument about sending samples to whom or why. Way out there. Dispatch of any non-synlube samples depends on synlube results? OK, we'll just take your word for it. (Again?!)
Constant references back to the one web site as the only source of synlube information.
UOA results typed into the post? Accepted as truth?
Two new members chime in on page 18 with a synlube success story. No posts in no other theads before or since. Recent (last) post (same thread) "try it, you'll like it." Etc.
Page 19, Houckster responds to questions about the company. (thought he was just a dumb customer?)
I pretty much just skimmed over the last couple pages because it was mostly more of the same bickering that had started at the beginning.
The values in terms of service intervals, wear numbers and vehicle candidacy paint a disturbing picture. It'll run a long ways, ignore high fe/low tbn in the UOA and (ahem) start with a relatively new vehicle. It is a safe gamble (for the maker of synlube). Odds are some unrelated outcome (mishap, sale, owner demise, whatever) will prematurely end the play. Otherwise, you'd probably get to the second act in this little soliloquy on any good synthetic, albeit runnnig an engine with horribly accelerated wear, unbeknownst to you. Really seems quite the little half-baked scam, to me.
Didn't know if anybody figured this out yet, just wanted to point it out since many seem to be getting lost in the hype and arguments.
huck·ster /hukster/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[huhk-ster] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a retailer of small articles, esp. a peddler of fruits and vegetables; hawker.
2. a person who employs showy methods to effect a sale, win votes, etc.: the crass methods of political hucksters.
3. a cheaply mercenary person.
4. Informal.
a. a persuasive and aggressive salesperson.
b. a person who works in the advertising industry, esp. one who prepares aggressive advertising for radio and television.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) 5. to deal, as in small articles, or to make petty bargains: to huckster fresh corn; to huckster for a living.
6. to sell or promote in an aggressive and flashy manner.
----------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME huccstere (perh. c. MD hokester), equiv. to hucc- haggle (c. dial. G hucken to huckster) + -stere -ster]
Anybody see the correlation? Cooincidence? At least he views himself truthfully.
Houckster's "problem" started when the thread didn't die after he threatened to drop it. That's when Miro decided to appear, purportedly as himself.
Page 10, Miro shows up as a new user. Substantive comments "Sorry I do not have time to live on message boards.. " Seemed more to me like "I do not have time to masquerade as more than a few different people at one time." "Use it FIRST and then talk about it!" Blatant sales pitch? Pretty weak, IMHO.
Next post offered nothing but another sales pitch. No new info.
Next post another sales pitch sprinkled with philosophic and religious analogy. It's gettin' deep now boys.
Then there's the whole argument about sending samples to whom or why. Way out there. Dispatch of any non-synlube samples depends on synlube results? OK, we'll just take your word for it. (Again?!)
Constant references back to the one web site as the only source of synlube information.
UOA results typed into the post? Accepted as truth?
Two new members chime in on page 18 with a synlube success story. No posts in no other theads before or since. Recent (last) post (same thread) "try it, you'll like it." Etc.
Page 19, Houckster responds to questions about the company. (thought he was just a dumb customer?)
I pretty much just skimmed over the last couple pages because it was mostly more of the same bickering that had started at the beginning.
The values in terms of service intervals, wear numbers and vehicle candidacy paint a disturbing picture. It'll run a long ways, ignore high fe/low tbn in the UOA and (ahem) start with a relatively new vehicle. It is a safe gamble (for the maker of synlube). Odds are some unrelated outcome (mishap, sale, owner demise, whatever) will prematurely end the play. Otherwise, you'd probably get to the second act in this little soliloquy on any good synthetic, albeit runnnig an engine with horribly accelerated wear, unbeknownst to you. Really seems quite the little half-baked scam, to me.
Didn't know if anybody figured this out yet, just wanted to point it out since many seem to be getting lost in the hype and arguments.
huck·ster /hukster/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[huhk-ster] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a retailer of small articles, esp. a peddler of fruits and vegetables; hawker.
2. a person who employs showy methods to effect a sale, win votes, etc.: the crass methods of political hucksters.
3. a cheaply mercenary person.
4. Informal.
a. a persuasive and aggressive salesperson.
b. a person who works in the advertising industry, esp. one who prepares aggressive advertising for radio and television.
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) 5. to deal, as in small articles, or to make petty bargains: to huckster fresh corn; to huckster for a living.
6. to sell or promote in an aggressive and flashy manner.
----------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME huccstere (perh. c. MD hokester), equiv. to hucc- haggle (c. dial. G hucken to huckster) + -stere -ster]
Anybody see the correlation? Cooincidence? At least he views himself truthfully.
Hi Alternator,
You're a bear for punishment reading 23 pages of this stuff. Hopefully, you're not prone to migraines! By this time next year, we're hoping to reach 30-plus pages!
I refuse to be politically correct, so Merry Christmas and a happy and safe New Year to everyone out there in cyberspace.
Paul.
ve3zt
in Haliburton, ON, Canada!
You're a bear for punishment reading 23 pages of this stuff. Hopefully, you're not prone to migraines! By this time next year, we're hoping to reach 30-plus pages!
I refuse to be politically correct, so Merry Christmas and a happy and safe New Year to everyone out there in cyberspace.
Paul.
ve3zt
in Haliburton, ON, Canada!
Just when I thought I'd seen every fool in the world, ALTERNATOR pops up.
I think I've said this a million times but once more: Miro Kefurt and Houckster are not the same person as ALTERNATOR attempts to imply. Miro Kefurt owns SynLube. Houckster, that's me, is a "dumb" customer only. ALTERNATOR may be correct about dumb but I'm definitely better off than ALTERNATOR is judging by his post.
ALTERNATOR writes: UOA results typed into the post? Accepted as truth?
If you don't want to accept it, be my guest. What do you want, a tattoo?
And perverting my name to HUCKSTER? So very cute. I bet you're proud of that one aren't you? Of course I'm devastated by your acid wit.
Count ALTERNATOR as one more person who just doesn't get it. Personal experience beats tests 10 times out of 10. If you want to consider SynLube a half-baked scam, please do, that way we don't have to deal with your stupidity any longer.
And unless his future posts show some greater amount of intelligence than this one he isn't worth any more time. Definitely a troll at work here.
I think I've said this a million times but once more: Miro Kefurt and Houckster are not the same person as ALTERNATOR attempts to imply. Miro Kefurt owns SynLube. Houckster, that's me, is a "dumb" customer only. ALTERNATOR may be correct about dumb but I'm definitely better off than ALTERNATOR is judging by his post.
ALTERNATOR writes: UOA results typed into the post? Accepted as truth?
If you don't want to accept it, be my guest. What do you want, a tattoo?
And perverting my name to HUCKSTER? So very cute. I bet you're proud of that one aren't you? Of course I'm devastated by your acid wit.
Count ALTERNATOR as one more person who just doesn't get it. Personal experience beats tests 10 times out of 10. If you want to consider SynLube a half-baked scam, please do, that way we don't have to deal with your stupidity any longer.
And unless his future posts show some greater amount of intelligence than this one he isn't worth any more time. Definitely a troll at work here.
quote:Count ALTERNATOR as one more person who just doesn't get it.
Perhaps a person who attended a school of higher learning and became a Blender?
quote:Definitely a troll at work here.
Or a Blender?
Whether a blender or not, ALTERNATOR didn't alternate between being a troll and not. He raised nothing new. His entire post was a waste.
A couple of years ago I called Synlube - Miro, and met with him in a parking lot off of Decatur & Sahara in Las Vegas, NV. At the time I had a 1991 Toyota Pick-up truck basic 4 cylinder, and I think there were about 125,000 miles on it. Miro took a look at my oil, and told me that he would not advise me to use his product in my car as it had some issues. I was perfectly willing to shell out the money at the time for Synlube products, but he recommended against it...how many times have any of you had a person selling a product do that? He could have taken my money and I would have been none the wiser, but he did not. My truck died just recently, and I replaced it with a Toyota Echo, and I am leaning towards putting Synlube in it.
I want to be more environmentally responsible as we all should be...to save the planet for future generations. Reducing oil changes & the use of filters is a start. Considering the fact that oil is a known carcinogenic it seems only natural that we try to reduce consumption in any way possible. From what I have read, and I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination it appears that there is no doubt that synthetic oils offer advantages over dino oil. Of course every company claims that they have the best - Synlube makes some strong statements about their products, and I haven't seen any lawsuits filed against the company related to these claims. I am interested in using Synlube in my "new" used car if it is deemed a candidate by Miro. One less thing for me to have to worry about in this crazy world of ours. Just my two cents...hopefully I haven't offended anyone. Have an awesome day.
I want to be more environmentally responsible as we all should be...to save the planet for future generations. Reducing oil changes & the use of filters is a start. Considering the fact that oil is a known carcinogenic it seems only natural that we try to reduce consumption in any way possible. From what I have read, and I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination it appears that there is no doubt that synthetic oils offer advantages over dino oil. Of course every company claims that they have the best - Synlube makes some strong statements about their products, and I haven't seen any lawsuits filed against the company related to these claims. I am interested in using Synlube in my "new" used car if it is deemed a candidate by Miro. One less thing for me to have to worry about in this crazy world of ours. Just my two cents...hopefully I haven't offended anyone. Have an awesome day.
Well, you should read over the comments pro and con here just to be sure this is right for you. As you will gather from my comments, my expenditure was extremely successful. I'd go so far as to say that if I sold my Ranger and the next owner wanted to use something else, I'd drain the oil and give him what he wanted. I'd then use the SynLube in my new ride.
Remember the transmission and the differential also benefit greatly from these advanced lubricants.
Remember the transmission and the differential also benefit greatly from these advanced lubricants.
quote:Miro took a look at my oil, and told me that he would not advise me to use his product in my car as it had some issues.
What did he say was wrong with the car just by looking at the oil?
Well, it seems like Miro was correct about the car having some issues. Since he is a tribologist, he probably have seen oil from other cars, having simmilar problems. But the point is: he was correct about your car having issues and since he didn't take your money, I would considder him to be honest, as well.
Since I have personal experience in doing bussiness with him, I can only tell that he really is a honest and straightforward person.
Since I have personal experience in doing bussiness with him, I can only tell that he really is a honest and straightforward person.
Tempest, the point I was trying to make was simply that Miro could have taken my money...I was very willing to give it to him, but he did not. He gave me his honest opinion - that being my truck was not a candidate for his product because of the shape that it was in. With what subsequently happened with my truck Miro was right! If Miro were just in it to fleece people...why didn't he fleece me? I am not an expert on cars by any stretch of the imagination, but I am open-minded enough to realize that new ideas can work - being different is okay. I respect your decision to feel the way that you do, and I respect the fact that you are not afraid to voice your opinion - but don't deny people that same right. If it had been left up to me we probably would still be walking - I am still amazed that Jumbo Jets fly. Miro believes in his product...he has a passion for what he does...that is more than I can say for most.
An excellent comment. It's so strange. For some people, if a big money-grabbing behomoth like Exxon-Mobil comes out with a new product it's got to be good. But if a little guy brings out something really good, it's a con.
I've known Miro for several years and he never has tried to sell me anything I didn't really need. It's truly a pleasure to know someone who will tell it to you straight.
I've known Miro for several years and he never has tried to sell me anything I didn't really need. It's truly a pleasure to know someone who will tell it to you straight.
Just can't help wondering why these people have such appropriate screen names...
Don't think so much, Alternator. The only good thing you'll get from it, is headache
Hi people. I came across this thread today while doing some general research . . . very interesting - enough to sign up here and maybe even offer some service 
. Quick intro: I'm a mechanical engineer in the research department of a high-tech company. I've been in this field for 27 years, and essentially make my living by developing and/or using high-risk, bleeding edge technology. I'm not a shill, pimp, troll, etc. !
More relevantly, I'm a car nut. My dad is a master mechanic and I've been working on cars since I was a wee lad. My latest project car is a 2001 Honda S2000. This is a marvelous machine. It's F20C engine is a 2.0 liter inline 4, redline is 9,000 rpm, and horsepower is 240hp @ 8600 rpm. The car is most well-known for it's awesome handling though. Also, its only real weakness is a lack of torque down low. As a track car, this is not much of an issue as you are normally up in the rpm power band. This car got moved up twice in SCCA class (I think) because it totally dominated the class where it "should" be. Mine is turbocharged, (Mitsubishi T5-18Z), has methanol/water injection, custom intake, which I installed, modified and/or built from components. I also do the tuning. Its making 330 horsepower to the wheels and 219 ft lbs torque at 3900 rpm. I've been using Mobil 1. Ok enough for the shameless plug about the test subject.
It's time for an oil change, and here's what I'm willing to do: try Synlube and report on how it goes. I see that there's lots of debate about what/when/ how to test it. I'm no chemical engineer, so what specifically would be the oil analysis test method(s) that would hold merit? Thanks and sorry for the long post.
. Quick intro: I'm a mechanical engineer in the research department of a high-tech company. I've been in this field for 27 years, and essentially make my living by developing and/or using high-risk, bleeding edge technology. I'm not a shill, pimp, troll, etc. !More relevantly, I'm a car nut. My dad is a master mechanic and I've been working on cars since I was a wee lad. My latest project car is a 2001 Honda S2000. This is a marvelous machine. It's F20C engine is a 2.0 liter inline 4, redline is 9,000 rpm, and horsepower is 240hp @ 8600 rpm. The car is most well-known for it's awesome handling though. Also, its only real weakness is a lack of torque down low. As a track car, this is not much of an issue as you are normally up in the rpm power band. This car got moved up twice in SCCA class (I think) because it totally dominated the class where it "should" be. Mine is turbocharged, (Mitsubishi T5-18Z), has methanol/water injection, custom intake, which I installed, modified and/or built from components. I also do the tuning. Its making 330 horsepower to the wheels and 219 ft lbs torque at 3900 rpm. I've been using Mobil 1. Ok enough for the shameless plug about the test subject.
It's time for an oil change, and here's what I'm willing to do: try Synlube and report on how it goes. I see that there's lots of debate about what/when/ how to test it. I'm no chemical engineer, so what specifically would be the oil analysis test method(s) that would hold merit? Thanks and sorry for the long post.
Hi, Doug.
Here are some details for how to perform a correct analysis of Synlube: http://www.synlube.com/serv02.htm
Another thing that is of great importanse, is to meassure oil temperature, compression and exhaust particles. This should be done before you install Synlube, and after you install it. Perhaps 2 or 3 readings with a 1000-1500 mile interval.
Glad to see that more people are interested in learning more about this great oil.
Looking forward to see your findings, anyway.
Here are some details for how to perform a correct analysis of Synlube: http://www.synlube.com/serv02.htm
Another thing that is of great importanse, is to meassure oil temperature, compression and exhaust particles. This should be done before you install Synlube, and after you install it. Perhaps 2 or 3 readings with a 1000-1500 mile interval.
Glad to see that more people are interested in learning more about this great oil.
Looking forward to see your findings, anyway.
Thanks Jonny. I hope the skeptics will chime in on any other conditions to check for. I know about general lubrication principles, but not the chemistry. When it comes to the hybrid synthetic oils, I kind of guess they come out of the jet engine oil technology. Commercial jet engine oil lives for 30,000 hours, which would loosely equate to alot of auto miles. Anyways I don't know but I'm interested.
I did email SynLube, asking what I should get for my specific car. He responded back saying I should really check my oil temps first, and asked about my aux oil cooling setup due to the turbo and high engine power. I liked the fact that he didn't just try to sell me stuff first.
I did email SynLube, asking what I should get for my specific car. He responded back saying I should really check my oil temps first, and asked about my aux oil cooling setup due to the turbo and high engine power. I liked the fact that he didn't just try to sell me stuff first.
That's a difficult question to answer for someone like me that doesn't have an engineering background. I suggest you talk with Miro Kefurt who owns SynLube and get his comments. I feel sure he will give you an honest answer to your questions.
I am wondering about the methanol/water injection system and if that would be a potential trouble spot. SynLube is made of inert ingredients though and if you haven't had problems with other lubes, maybe it's a nonissue.
It would be very interesting if you keep us updated on your discussions with SynLube.
I am wondering about the methanol/water injection system and if that would be a potential trouble spot. SynLube is made of inert ingredients though and if you haven't had problems with other lubes, maybe it's a nonissue.
It would be very interesting if you keep us updated on your discussions with SynLube.
Thanks - yeah Miro is responding and has provided good info. My water/meth injection is a very moderate level (3gph) and only comes on when intake pressure is over 1psi, when the turbo starts provided boost pressure.
Miro mentioned that for a non OEM turbo setup like mine the Synlube CI would "only" be 50K miles, which is more than good. I only need the Synlube to live for 20.2K miles to break even. I'm not concerned with cost, just interested in the performance.
Miro mentioned that for a non OEM turbo setup like mine the Synlube CI would "only" be 50K miles, which is more than good. I only need the Synlube to live for 20.2K miles to break even. I'm not concerned with cost, just interested in the performance.
To do any serious testing you need to have a VOA (Virgin Oil Analysis) done on the new, unused oil. This will give you a base line to compare your UOAs (Used Oil Analysis) that will come later. I've never seen either on Synlube so they would be very interesting.
I would recommend going with Terry Dyson: http://www.dysonanalysis.com/ It will be a little more than just getting samples to a lab(~$25 vs. $60) but you will get professional opinion by a man that consults with race teams, oil corps, and everyone else. You will get real information this way. Not just conjecture on a BBS.
You should note that what Synlube claims is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.
I look forward to your experiment though.
I would recommend going with Terry Dyson: http://www.dysonanalysis.com/ It will be a little more than just getting samples to a lab(~$25 vs. $60) but you will get professional opinion by a man that consults with race teams, oil corps, and everyone else. You will get real information this way. Not just conjecture on a BBS.
You should note that what Synlube claims is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.
And this is one of them. If this were really true then they would not be doing their job protecting the engine.quote:SynLube is made of inert ingredients
I look forward to your experiment though.
Thanks Tempest. Should I have analysis on my existing Mobil 1, VOA and UOA also?
quote:Originally posted by Doug_:
Thanks Tempest. Should I have analysis on my existing Mobil 1, VOA and UOA also?
For a real comparison between the 2 oils, yes. The same lab should be used for all samples since there is variation from lab to lab.
Don't think it is needed, since Mobil 1 is a widely known product. Besides, Terry have all the numbers on unused Mobil 1 oil. By the way; Terry Dyson is one of the best, in what he is doing, so this would be a smart choice.
Tempest say that you should note that what Synlube claims, is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.
Accepted by whom? The every day driver?
Let me tell you then, that in 1994, Ferrari had some issues with their transmission in the Formula 1. They solved their problem when they changed to Synlube.
Next season, they had a new transmission ready.
Do you think Ferrari would have been using an oil that is not accepted by the best motor and lubrication engineers?
I think not, but maybe Tempest know better than Ferrari, who knows?
Tempest say that you should note that what Synlube claims, is against every accepted rule of engine lubrication.
Accepted by whom? The every day driver?
Let me tell you then, that in 1994, Ferrari had some issues with their transmission in the Formula 1. They solved their problem when they changed to Synlube.
Next season, they had a new transmission ready.
Do you think Ferrari would have been using an oil that is not accepted by the best motor and lubrication engineers?
I think not, but maybe Tempest know better than Ferrari, who knows?
A short update; I have now been driving 54000 kilometers(33600 miles)without changing oil. It seem to perform very well. I have also started the use of it in my wifes car, a small 1.3 liter Mazda. It is important that the engine is clean before using Synlube, so we did an Auto-Rx treatment( www.auto-rx.com ). I also added their gear-oil in the manual transmission.
Wow, this threads been kicking for four years now.
This Synlube looks very interesting.
What if Synlube updates their formula over time, and the new version is vastly superior to the old, but you've got it in your crankcase, but you're tied into a heavy oil investment and won't be replacing your original dose of Synlube?
I guess a Synlube customer is a customer only once.
This is a bad business plan, though probably an excellent product.
This Synlube looks very interesting.
What if Synlube updates their formula over time, and the new version is vastly superior to the old, but you've got it in your crankcase, but you're tied into a heavy oil investment and won't be replacing your original dose of Synlube?
I guess a Synlube customer is a customer only once.
This is a bad business plan, though probably an excellent product.
You can turn the oil in at any time for a credit towards a new purchase. SynLube is the only company that buys back (thru credits towards new purchases) their old oil. Also, it is important to point out that the same basic formula has been in use for 15+ years and has never required a change because the formula has always exceeded the current API spec.
Finally, the company's experience with the oil has been good enough that they have extended the oil's service life from 10 to 15 years so if you're a low mileage driver and the engine's in good shape, you can keep the oil longer.
The situation you describe is unlikely to occur.
Finally, the company's experience with the oil has been good enough that they have extended the oil's service life from 10 to 15 years so if you're a low mileage driver and the engine's in good shape, you can keep the oil longer.
The situation you describe is unlikely to occur.
How many miles/kilometers do you have on the clock these days, Houckster?
Is that oil filter you're using picking up any stuff that you can see?
Is that oil filter you're using picking up any stuff that you can see?
quote:Originally posted by Houckster:
You can turn the oil in at any time for a credit towards a new purchase. SynLube is the only company that buys back (thru credits towards new purchases) their old oil. Also, it is important to point out that the same basic formula has been in use for 15+ years and has never required a change because the formula has always exceeded the current API spec.
Finally, the company's experience with the oil has been good enough that they have extended the oil's service life from 10 to 15 years so if you're a low mileage driver and the engine's in good shape, you can keep the oil longer.
The situation you describe is unlikely to occur.
So how does Synlube keep people from turning in any old oil and calling it used Synlube?
With regard to
I have driven very little this year, less than a 1000 miles so far because of the high gas prices. I can afford to drive but I just won't pay those prices. I'm taking public transportation five days a week. This saves me a lot of money and it's kind of a patriotic thing too. The CM filter continues to work excellently. There hasn't been a hint of a problem. I disassembled the filter about six months ago and just put everything back in. There was no gunk, sludge, evidence of wear particles or anything.
I have also bought two oil sample tests from Terry Dyson. He is familiar with SynLube and I will send him samples soon. I have a trip planned for Michigan this month and I think I will wait until I return from that trip before submitting my samples. I am also going to try and get an emissions test done where they will actually measure my exhaust to see how clean the engine is. I'll post all that stuff when I get the results regardless of the results that are reported.
First they keep a record of their customers, secondly, SynLube is so completely different from conventional motor oil that it would be spotted immediately. Also, the customer pays to ship the oil to SynLube. If they ship counterfeit oil back they're going to be out of the shipping costs.quote:So how does Synlube keep people from turning in any old oil and calling it used Synlube?
I have driven very little this year, less than a 1000 miles so far because of the high gas prices. I can afford to drive but I just won't pay those prices. I'm taking public transportation five days a week. This saves me a lot of money and it's kind of a patriotic thing too. The CM filter continues to work excellently. There hasn't been a hint of a problem. I disassembled the filter about six months ago and just put everything back in. There was no gunk, sludge, evidence of wear particles or anything.
I have also bought two oil sample tests from Terry Dyson. He is familiar with SynLube and I will send him samples soon. I have a trip planned for Michigan this month and I think I will wait until I return from that trip before submitting my samples. I am also going to try and get an emissions test done where they will actually measure my exhaust to see how clean the engine is. I'll post all that stuff when I get the results regardless of the results that are reported.
Sounds good. So the oil you're running right now is four years old?
Closer to five years now. It was installed in January, 2004. About 4-6 ounces of oil consumption during that period.
All comments noted and digested ,with first consideration as to practical implementation of it. My experience ,un-professionally done,with lubes and with the similar anecdotal comments as to results,boils down to the practicality of each technology. There is one lube company which can lay claim to many such glaring reports as Synlube,only with a little twist;--Practical cost factors,easily put in place by average vehicle owner, and reliable performance of all products. I used /tested their 100% syn(PAO)in an Acura which Factory service said was not-repairable(Flat Cam Lobe-Bad maint. history)The oil was in the engine at least Four years with Three Filter changes(Rated at 30 Microns Full flow).The Banging gradually quieted down to only at start-up,and then completely after that period,and had no problem selling auto (bad A/C )when time came.Now you know that is a no-no and all warranties are off for that guarenteed 25000mi/1yr oil,but who wishes to discuss any warranty,even on new autos.??
I must add here that I have done many seat-of-pants tests on filters,Ionization,conditioning and vehicle applications for lubes,and what is out there to the public,in great technology/products could fill the head of a pin. They are all big secrets conditioned by the entrenched mktrs.of Lubes,and the certifying bodies which appraise them.But the public is awakening,as is evidenced by this forum. Thanks for your comments in the past and future.
I must add here that I have done many seat-of-pants tests on filters,Ionization,conditioning and vehicle applications for lubes,and what is out there to the public,in great technology/products could fill the head of a pin. They are all big secrets conditioned by the entrenched mktrs.of Lubes,and the certifying bodies which appraise them.But the public is awakening,as is evidenced by this forum. Thanks for your comments in the past and future.
quote:Originally posted by TechSpec:
All comments noted and digested ,with first consideration as to practical implementation of it. My experience ,un-professionally done,with lubes and with the similar anecdotal comments as to results,boils down to the practicality of each technology. There is one lube company which can lay claim to many such glaring reports as Synlube,only with a little twist;--Practical cost factors,easily put in place by average vehicle owner, and reliable performance of all products. I used /tested their 100% syn(PAO)in an Acura which Factory service said was not-repairable(Flat Cam Lobe-Bad maint. history)The oil was in the engine at least Four years with Three Filter changes(Rated at 30 Microns Full flow).The Banging gradually quieted down to only at start-up,and then completely after that period,and had no problem selling auto (bad A/C )when time came.Now you know that is a no-no and all warranties are off for that guarenteed 25000mi/1yr oil,but who wishes to discuss any warranty,even on new autos.??
I must add here that I have done many seat-of-pants tests on filters,Ionization,conditioning and vehicle applications for lubes,and what is out there to the public,in great technology/products could fill the head of a pin. They are all big secrets conditioned by the entrenched mktrs.of Lubes,and the certifying bodies which appraise them.But the public is awakening,as is evidenced by this forum. Thanks for your comments in the past and future.
So, uh.......what'r'ya trying to say? You like Synlube, or you don't?
The last couple days have to me the most interesting posts I have honestly seen about synlube.
Houckster I would love to see the results from any testing by Terry.
Allen did you just get booted off BITOG? Your oil filter rig sounded interesting, I can bring my camera.
Houckster I would love to see the results from any testing by Terry.
Allen did you just get booted off BITOG? Your oil filter rig sounded interesting, I can bring my camera.
I will submit my samples after I return from Michigan at the end of September.
quote:Originally posted by Taterandnoodles:
The last couple days have to me the most interesting posts I have honestly seen about synlube.
Houckster I would love to see the results from any testing by Terry.
Allen did you just get booted off BITOG? Your oil filter rig sounded interesting, I can bring my camera.
Yeah, Synlube sounds like some very interesting stuff.
No, I didn't get booted off of BITOG. I asked Helen to kill my profile. I'd had my fill of the derision and slanderous PMs people were sending around about me.
I'm still going to read BITOG threads, but I have no intention of ever contributing to BITOG again.
I was treated as if I were a buffoon, and there really is no reason for it.
Allen
Most of the BITOG users love to tell about how they but bought some oil at $1.25 and had a wonderful UOA. Anyone who proposes anything different or who somehow doesn't fit the BITOG mold will get treated rather rudely. I was.
I'm sure there are a few thoughtful individuals there but there are far more trolls. Consequently, BITOG is not worth my time.
I'm sure there are a few thoughtful individuals there but there are far more trolls. Consequently, BITOG is not worth my time.
quote:Originally posted by Houckster:
Most of the BITOG users love to tell about how they but bought some oil at $1.25 and had a wonderful UOA. Anyone who proposes anything different or who somehow doesn't fit the BITOG mold will get treated rather rudely. I was.
I'm sure there are a few thoughtful individuals there but there are far more trolls. Consequently, BITOG is not worth my time.
I agree 100%.
quote:Slick 50 contains PTFE same as Synlube
You cannot compare the version of PTFE use in SynLube with that in Slick 50. They are entirely different. The PTFE used in Slick 50 was never intended for use in a lubricant. nanoFlon is. It WILL NOT clog filters and oil passageways. I've been using it for five years.
BTW, my Michigan trip got torpedoed by Hurricane Ike so my next trip will be in October to Pennsylvania. I submit a sample of SynLube to Terry Dynson after that trip.
It is nice to know that there are now (according to my browser) 26 pages of discussion about SynLube.
We have also reached another "milestone" our official 2003 FORD Focus PZEV has just accumulated 70,000 miles on SynLube products (Motor Oil, Gear Oil, Power Steering, Brake Fluid and Coolant).
The oil filter has been chagned at 10,000 and 50,000 miles (MicroGlass)
Same Fluids - NO changes and average Moor Oil consumption of 6,232 miles per Quart of ADD OIL.
Now Compare that to other items that "should" last "forver" and they did not:
The AM/FM CD by Blaupunkt has been changed 3 times under warranty and now does not work properly (Should not Audio System Last the life of the car ?) - The estimate for not under warranty $790 replacement
Engine Mount Front Right ( No the power train warranty does not cover it, it is SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED !!! - $127.00 for the part and $450 labor estimate - we changet it ourselves in 15 minutes with just two had wrenches - while FORD dealer claimed the engine has to be "dropped" to replace it ! (Should engine mount not last life of the car ?)
And on and ON I can go, but here is a list:
IGNITION SWITCH - on day you could not unlick the steering column - a common problem I am told but not Warrantied.
FRONT RIGHT Shock absorber mounting rod worn out.
CLUTCH - almost $1,200 again NOT Warrantied a clutch worn out at 50,000 miles ? Well the drivers are experienced with 5 Speed and even in YUGO or KIA clutch lasts 2 to 3 times longer !!!
BRAKE PADS - ONE Pad worn to metal, the other 3 only 45% worn ! - ORIGINAL PADS at 68,000 miles that should prove that the drivers are "easy" on the car !!!
And about another 12 items that should not need to be changed on a NORMAL car !!!
So after 100 years FORD still can not design a trouble FREE car that would be as realible as YUGO.
Yet SynLube has no issues.
So most of the comments on this site do not take any automotive relity into consideration.
It is really accademic to discus UOA on a vehicle where the non lubricated parts FAIL due to poor desing and manufacture - the issue is will one fill of SynLube last LONGER than the vehile you put it in, and in 26 years of use the answer is IT WILL !!!
Miro Kefurt
SynLube, Inc.
We have also reached another "milestone" our official 2003 FORD Focus PZEV has just accumulated 70,000 miles on SynLube products (Motor Oil, Gear Oil, Power Steering, Brake Fluid and Coolant).
The oil filter has been chagned at 10,000 and 50,000 miles (MicroGlass)
Same Fluids - NO changes and average Moor Oil consumption of 6,232 miles per Quart of ADD OIL.
Now Compare that to other items that "should" last "forver" and they did not:
The AM/FM CD by Blaupunkt has been changed 3 times under warranty and now does not work properly (Should not Audio System Last the life of the car ?) - The estimate for not under warranty $790 replacement
Engine Mount Front Right ( No the power train warranty does not cover it, it is SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED !!! - $127.00 for the part and $450 labor estimate - we changet it ourselves in 15 minutes with just two had wrenches - while FORD dealer claimed the engine has to be "dropped" to replace it ! (Should engine mount not last life of the car ?)
And on and ON I can go, but here is a list:
IGNITION SWITCH - on day you could not unlick the steering column - a common problem I am told but not Warrantied.
FRONT RIGHT Shock absorber mounting rod worn out.
CLUTCH - almost $1,200 again NOT Warrantied a clutch worn out at 50,000 miles ? Well the drivers are experienced with 5 Speed and even in YUGO or KIA clutch lasts 2 to 3 times longer !!!
BRAKE PADS - ONE Pad worn to metal, the other 3 only 45% worn ! - ORIGINAL PADS at 68,000 miles that should prove that the drivers are "easy" on the car !!!
And about another 12 items that should not need to be changed on a NORMAL car !!!
So after 100 years FORD still can not design a trouble FREE car that would be as realible as YUGO.
Yet SynLube has no issues.
So most of the comments on this site do not take any automotive relity into consideration.
It is really accademic to discus UOA on a vehicle where the non lubricated parts FAIL due to poor desing and manufacture - the issue is will one fill of SynLube last LONGER than the vehile you put it in, and in 26 years of use the answer is IT WILL !!!
Miro Kefurt
SynLube, Inc.
Sorry about the few mis-types, I am used to using auto spell check word plug-in, which on this site apparently does not work.
And once you click the post now it can not be corrected.
Miro
And once you click the post now it can not be corrected.
Miro
Hi Miro,
I'm on my second and LAST Ford Focus. I owned a 2000 and now a 2005 model year. Lots of silly but expensive repairs to the 2000. The alternator failed recently on the 2005 to the tune of $750 to have it replaced. Robbery! The front rotors were replaced because of vibrations/warpage. They are warped once again. I'm fed up with North American junk.
I'm on my second and LAST Ford Focus. I owned a 2000 and now a 2005 model year. Lots of silly but expensive repairs to the 2000. The alternator failed recently on the 2005 to the tune of $750 to have it replaced. Robbery! The front rotors were replaced because of vibrations/warpage. They are warped once again. I'm fed up with North American junk.
Exactly my point!
All that UOA fanatics do not seem to comprehend that modern cars are designed to have a very finite life time, so when the Motor Oil (SynLube) outlasts the rest of the vehicle - i.e. parts that should NOT wear out - the discussion about what is or is not floating in the oil is purely academic.
Reason why SynLube has been both Trademarked and labeled as Lube-4-Life® since 1996, is because it lasts as long as (or longer) than the "EPA or CARB Certified Useful Life" and in case people are not familiar with the certifications that is 7 years or 70,000 miles for most vehicles except for the few that are "PZEV" in which case that is 15 years or 150,000 miles !
The 2003 FORD Focus PZEV is the car that "should last 15 years" of course such certification only applies to the emissions - both exhaust and evaporative.
So if Ignition locks, Brakes, Clutches, Engine Mounts and Aternators fail much sooner, the FORD's attitude is SO WAHT - it must be your fault and guess what it is NOT covered by the VERY "limited powertrain" or "emission performance" warranty so you have to PAY big time for repairs.
And people are surprised that GM and FORD and now also Chrysler are basically bankrupt.
We have thousands of customers that had various Chrysler products (Mostly Durango and Dakota) that after 4 or 5 year experience with them, and initial desire to keep them "forever" no longer have them and will NEVER EVER buy another Chrysler product at any price.
The hundred or so people who had Cadillacs with Northstar engines - will NEVER EVER buy another Cadillac and will think trice before they get another GM vehicle PERIOD. Only one of those cars still runs with 125,000 miles on odo the rest failed seriously before 80,000 miles and of course after any extended warranty they have bought for thousands of dollars extra either expired or not covered the defect/problem.
And no not s single one blames SynLube for their problems, fortunately they ALL understand it is just plain poor design and faulty workmanship, after all thousands on Northstar owners had same or worse problems at even lower mileages.
Just run Internet search !
Same is case with the famous TOYOTA Sludge.....
Well no manufacturer is PERFECT these days, as no one ever had a business model to keep the cars "on the road" on the road, the success and failure in Auto Business anywhere in the world is measured by how many cars you have sold in last 10 days, short of that nothing else matters any more, definitely not to CEO's that get paid millions of dollars in salary and even more in bonuses, because the $2 billion loss in last quarter was not as bad as they expected !
Hey I think I deserve $1 billion bonus, as our company is actually making a profit (OH I forgot "profit" is now a "dirty word" in USA - I remember when that was actually Illegal in Soviet Union !!)
Syn-cerely
SynLube, Inc.
Miro Kefurt
CEO
All that UOA fanatics do not seem to comprehend that modern cars are designed to have a very finite life time, so when the Motor Oil (SynLube) outlasts the rest of the vehicle - i.e. parts that should NOT wear out - the discussion about what is or is not floating in the oil is purely academic.
Reason why SynLube has been both Trademarked and labeled as Lube-4-Life® since 1996, is because it lasts as long as (or longer) than the "EPA or CARB Certified Useful Life" and in case people are not familiar with the certifications that is 7 years or 70,000 miles for most vehicles except for the few that are "PZEV" in which case that is 15 years or 150,000 miles !
The 2003 FORD Focus PZEV is the car that "should last 15 years" of course such certification only applies to the emissions - both exhaust and evaporative.
So if Ignition locks, Brakes, Clutches, Engine Mounts and Aternators fail much sooner, the FORD's attitude is SO WAHT - it must be your fault and guess what it is NOT covered by the VERY "limited powertrain" or "emission performance" warranty so you have to PAY big time for repairs.
And people are surprised that GM and FORD and now also Chrysler are basically bankrupt.
We have thousands of customers that had various Chrysler products (Mostly Durango and Dakota) that after 4 or 5 year experience with them, and initial desire to keep them "forever" no longer have them and will NEVER EVER buy another Chrysler product at any price.
The hundred or so people who had Cadillacs with Northstar engines - will NEVER EVER buy another Cadillac and will think trice before they get another GM vehicle PERIOD. Only one of those cars still runs with 125,000 miles on odo the rest failed seriously before 80,000 miles and of course after any extended warranty they have bought for thousands of dollars extra either expired or not covered the defect/problem.
And no not s single one blames SynLube for their problems, fortunately they ALL understand it is just plain poor design and faulty workmanship, after all thousands on Northstar owners had same or worse problems at even lower mileages.
Just run Internet search !
Same is case with the famous TOYOTA Sludge.....
Well no manufacturer is PERFECT these days, as no one ever had a business model to keep the cars "on the road" on the road, the success and failure in Auto Business anywhere in the world is measured by how many cars you have sold in last 10 days, short of that nothing else matters any more, definitely not to CEO's that get paid millions of dollars in salary and even more in bonuses, because the $2 billion loss in last quarter was not as bad as they expected !
Hey I think I deserve $1 billion bonus, as our company is actually making a profit (OH I forgot "profit" is now a "dirty word" in USA - I remember when that was actually Illegal in Soviet Union !!)
Syn-cerely
SynLube, Inc.
Miro Kefurt
CEO
I think there's a new marketing slogan in there -
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Good enough for your crappy car!"
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Good enough for your crappy car!"
SynLube is more than good enough for any car. And I don't agree that all US cars are crappy. I've had only one issue with my Ranger in nearly five years of ownership.
One of the major problems that dealerships across the country are facing is that they no longer derive the income from warranty service they once did due to the general improvement in the quality of cars out there now. Ford dealerships are a case in point.
One of the major problems that dealerships across the country are facing is that they no longer derive the income from warranty service they once did due to the general improvement in the quality of cars out there now. Ford dealerships are a case in point.
I agree, there's no sense in only targeting the crappy car market.
How about:
"SynLube Lube-4-Life ; Because your car won't last long enough for it to matter."
How about:
"SynLube Lube-4-Life ; Because your car won't last long enough for it to matter."
jpr,
I like this one better:
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Because your North American-built car won't last long enough for it to matter."
I like this one better:
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Because your North American-built car won't last long enough for it to matter."
Nice!
How about -
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Why not, it's a Ford"
How about -
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Why not, it's a Ford"
"Synlube-4-Life. Your vehicles life may end sooner than you think".
"SynLube Lube-4-Life; Do you feel lucky, punk?"
"SynLube Lube-4-Life
Schrödinger's Oil: No UOA, No Problem"
Schrödinger's Oil: No UOA, No Problem"
I'm considering buying Synlube simply out of spite.
"SynLube Lube-4-Life ;
The Curmudgeon's Choice"
The Curmudgeon's Choice"